From unknown Tue Jun 24 06:54:40 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#13780 <13780@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#13780 <13780@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle Reply-To: bug#13780 <13780@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 13:54:40 +0000 retitle 13780 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troub= lle reassign 13780 emacs submitter 13780 Reuben Thomas severity 13780 minor tag 13780 patch wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 21 19:35:29 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2013 00:35:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43163 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8gbo-0000Gu-5Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:35:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59939) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8gbl-0000Gn-FW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:35:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8gaJ-00011Y-8A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:34:05 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_FRT_FRIEND,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:44310) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8gaJ-00011U-5N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:33:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42988) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8gaG-0005UK-A2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:33:55 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8ga7-0000yY-NJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:33:51 -0500 Received: from exprod7og109.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.171]:39801) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8ga7-0000xB-Az for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:33:43 -0500 Received: from mail-la0-f71.google.com ([209.85.215.71]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob109.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUSa825E409PvJvLsZcluMd2oB9/FWP8U@postini.com; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:33:43 PST Received: by mail-la0-f71.google.com with SMTP id fr10so163753lab.2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-received:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=b6qcDr19tbG7x/QCsQKSyTDotmKmwadhMWzJQUFHGCE=; b=miz5WLK5nqOS7MKwlu/5DiCXnZjn1k8BKKj7SytSv6cgQPcnzGwaep60deyfdLgs6R 5G1+uCVCTPpcj/yVHWA5exPsdQMIy6NQKi/FwayklPrn6S0XziS2lL1PVXdFykzmSPGf PW+ZFVERLPmor1hNg6H2TrgQ+okFcEdfTDaRt30wgCN5hn////GoN/4WL2cad2pdctFL izLTAOmYfmfXeYb4My44G2vroU40iLpA/YN6V4hdFFJ4W20EZ4PVcPyBo2O5fgaPnB3Z 4H/41Bq7RKAAfQJVQFoGLIrLGsAWN6D47UEKBopBfoDdCnia0i4Jf5xsDz2mD5gCgvya vdDw== X-Received: by 10.180.100.169 with SMTP id ez9mr46017566wib.3.1361493211158; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.180.100.169 with SMTP id ez9mr46017555wib.3.1361493211017; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:33:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from skwd ([149.241.115.91]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ay10sm1373173wib.3.2013.02.21.16.33.30 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:33:30 -0800 (PST) From: Reuben Thomas To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:33:29 +0000 Message-ID: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQketYdUz7ZVhjl1rtsnj6SDr+ta1LP+pLi0qpELtsZo1pvxPu1yHiDZl0YAMmAwwS/0Fg1SWymWVEjqZSGBTvVMXcaeM71H6ZDOI7p8PdB/OZnDpOJ+OzNvbTRrjjf9PVTmgA37XBW9vHAkJdQnaoPO7lhiRXvkL8+PGY2a5ctGwBSFORY= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) I just spent a while trying to work out why a third-party mode I had just installed was not automatically added to my find-file-hook, even though the mode's file calls add-hook when it is loaded, and I took care to ensure the mode was autoloaded. I discovered that the problem was that the mode was loaded by my customization file, custom.el, but later, the same file overwrote find-file-hook, because I had customized find-file-hook. I found that the reason for the customization was to get flymake-mode automatically activated; I've filed a separate issue about this (#13779). After removing the customization, my find-file-hook was set up correctly (except for flymake-mode). The real problem here is that find-file-hook is clearly meant to be customizable (there is even a check box for auto-indent in its customization dialog), yet customizing it seems to cause a race condition where depending in what order files are autoloaded, hooks may fail to be added properly to find-file-hook. For the moment, I have added an add-hook call to my Emacs init file to set up flymake-mode, and removed the customization, but it would be nice if customizing the hook were both possible (perhaps by ensuring that customized hooks were added to rather than overwritten?) and safe. In GNU Emacs 24.2.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.13) of 2012-12-13 on komainu, modified by Debian Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11300000 Configured using: `configure '--build' 'x86_64-linux-gnu' '--build' 'x86_64-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var/lib' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.2/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.2/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp' '--with-crt-dir=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--with-toolkit-scroll-bars' 'build_alias=x86_64-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-g -O2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wall' 'CPPFLAGS=-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: en_GB.UTF-8 value of $LC_NUMERIC: en_GB.UTF-8 value of $LC_TIME: en_GB.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Emacs-Lisp Minor modes in effect: diff-auto-refine-mode: t recentf-mode: t show-paren-mode: t server-mode: t savehist-mode: t minibuffer-electric-default-mode: t iswitchb-mode: t icomplete-mode: t global-auto-revert-mode: t dtrt-indent-mode: t desktop-save-mode: t TeX-PDF-mode: t TeX-source-correlate-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t column-number-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: SPC i t SPC s h o u l d SPC b e SPC r e m o v e d SPC , SPC a n d , , SPC a n d SPC a SPC m o r e SPC s t a u s e r - f r i e n d l y SPC a n d SPC s t a n d a r d SPC w a y SPC o f SPC a c t i v a t i n g SPC f l y m a k e - m o d e SPC g l o b v a a b a l l y SPC a u t o m a t i c a l l y SPC a d d e d ? M-q C-c C-c y e s C-x k C-x k C-x k C-x k C-x k C-a C-SPC C-n M-w C-x k C-a C-x k y e s C-x b v a r s C-g C-x C-f v a C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-y C-p C-d C-d C-d C-d C-d C-d C-d C-d C-d C-x C-s C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n M-x r e p o r t - e m a c s - b u g Recent messages: Sending... Sending via mail... Sending...done Mark set Quit byte-code: End of buffer [16 times] Mark set Saving file /home/rrt/.emacs.d/vars.el... Wrote /home/rrt/.emacs.d/vars.el byte-code: End of buffer [13 times] byte-code: End of buffer Load-path shadows: /home/rrt/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/browse-kill-ring hides /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/emacs-goodies-el/browse-kill-ring /home/rrt/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/dict hides /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/emacs-goodies-el/dict /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/dictionary-1.8.7/dictionary-init hides /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/dictionary-el/dictionary-init /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/dictionary-1.8.7/dictionary hides /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/dictionary-el/dictionary /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/dictionary-1.8.7/link hides /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/dictionary-el/link /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/dictionary-1.8.7/connection hides /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/dictionary-el/connection /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-style hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-style /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-mik hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-mik /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-jp hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-jp /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-info hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-info /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/plain-tex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/plain-tex /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/latex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/latex /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/preview hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/preview /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/texmathp hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/texmathp /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/context-nl hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context-nl /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-font hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-font /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-buf hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-buf /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/bib-cite hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/bib-cite /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/context-en hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context-en /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/tex-bar hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-bar /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/context hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/prv-emacs hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/prv-emacs /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/auctex/font-latex hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/font-latex /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/golang-mode/go-mode-load hides /usr/share/emacs/24.2/site-lisp/golang-mode/go-mode-load /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/golang-mode/go-mode hides /usr/share/emacs/24.2/site-lisp/golang-mode/go-mode /usr/share/emacs/24.2/site-lisp/cmake-data/cmake-mode hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/cmake-mode /usr/share/emacs/24.2/site-lisp/cdargs hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/cdargs /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/rst hides /usr/share/emacs/24.2/lisp/textmodes/rst /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/dictionaries-common/ispell hides /usr/share/emacs/24.2/lisp/textmodes/ispell /usr/share/emacs24/site-lisp/dictionaries-common/flyspell hides /usr/share/emacs/24.2/lisp/textmodes/flyspell Features: (time-stamp cus-edit info mule-util shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mail-utils add-log log-view pcvs-util vc-annotate vc ediff-merg ediff-diff ediff-wind ediff-help ediff-util ediff-mult ediff-init ediff vc-dispatcher vc-bzr find-func etags latexenc preview prv-emacs tex-buf font-latex latex tex-style misearch multi-isearch m4-mode conf-mode newcomment make-mode pp help-mode view lua-mode nroff-mode autoconf autoconf-mode sh-script executable todoo noutline outline flymake compile comint ansi-color ring inform-mode diff-git diff-mode vc-git cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs jka-compr face-remap flyspell ispell smart-quotes auto-dictionary-autoloads c-eldoc-autoloads dictionary-autoloads diff-git-autoloads dired-isearch-autoloads full-ack-autoloads guess-style-autoloads kill-ring-search-autoloads magit-autoloads mv-shell-autoloads tumble-autoloads http-post-simple-autoloads package tabulated-list completing-help recentf tree-widget wid-edit uniquify paren server savehist minibuf-eldef iswitchb icomplete autorevert dtrt-indent desktop cus-start cus-load ropemacs pymacs warnings url-util url-parse auth-source eieio byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cconv macroexp gnus-util password-cache url-vars mm-util mail-prsvr tex dbus xml regexp-opt remember user-site-loaddefs advice advice-preload yasnippet help-fns derived edmacro kmacro easymenu assoc cl muse-autoloads go-mode-load emacs-goodies-el emacs-goodies-custom emacs-goodies-loaddefs easy-mmode preview-latex tex-site auto-loads time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) -- http://rrt.sc3d.org/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 21 21:16:20 2013 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2013 02:16:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43405 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8iBQ-0004Xn-9s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:16:20 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:17695) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8iBN-0004Xf-8W for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:16:17 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFFsoXXp/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgeBsEtkQoDiGGcGYFegxU X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFFsoXXp/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgeBsEtkQoDiGGcGYFegxU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="1940770" Received: from 108-161-117-233.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([108.161.117.233]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 21 Feb 2013 21:14:56 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 9CCB16BF0E; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:14:56 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Reuben Thomas Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle Message-ID: References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:14:56 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> (Reuben Thomas's message of "Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:33:29 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > The real problem here is that find-file-hook is clearly meant to be > customizable (there is even a check box for auto-indent in its But Custom only properly handles hooks which is only sets via Custom, whereas it's reasonably common for find-file-hook to be modified by packages (via add-hook, of course). So until Custom is fixed to actually properly handle customisation of hooks (e.g. by storing "add functions foo, bar, and baz" rather than "ignore current value and just set it to (foo bar baz)"). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 22 06:44:29 2013 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2013 11:44:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43839 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8r3E-0001Sh-O7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:44:28 -0500 Received: from exprod7og107.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.167]:39793) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8r3B-0001SX-5v for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:44:26 -0500 Received: from mail-we0-f197.google.com ([74.125.82.197]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob107.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUSdZxVs957bGVP4Emn2CczP5n1wL0oUO@postini.com; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:43:03 PST Received: by mail-we0-f197.google.com with SMTP id t44so743699wey.4 for <13780@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:43:01 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=Sf8DFQj5VO9iz5cZ7teI5lMLIIlJCPnGgLIi2eamCdY=; b=aquqnbpyzW/XSPDLLyyzNEPYym6GllxGp/KK/Up9lm2kCkw/GjE43HNGJGsVqn1/15 e3CCV6LnXcW7bOScxUQcgRpVrWU5EUmBPATUJw/EaiS+LQQKyvUusIO4eIpbJc2kkWYn TU4yMO/8SOOrU11TsPLP5k2W/Z+hcT7Xx8XZ5z9Aomzh4+jmiE1lVR3c57pQmjOyJEE+ qFtYyEsNsvkS6FPPv/9vyZrIPiS+y0Symb3n0vsL/hIxv1ZGtpyV+DLpfwdzSF1U48IW aLCQ5OdIp9oa6P3SRHmrz9iDvQts7U7skScwyIsyjLhvhX1SnjqF2l0v4KIRmpGWD9Vi J6rw== X-Received: by 10.112.13.162 with SMTP id i2mr825257lbc.105.1361533381489; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:43:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.13.162 with SMTP id i2mr825254lbc.105.1361533381350; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.5.40 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:43:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:43:01 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle From: Reuben Thomas To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkks743OY/rIhVyEiFAydFyV0tjF8FdQUqx2Rr+mJivHDGMSzKSemsoR6ssdzTxEQUqTeQM8aVf9LxPrvnmdROgYDffYV34Nx/lDq5nKhbmEmHgaH7djts3jww9zYe8QDH+Rtu/2rLANPQ6P1fXUZY5eg4y+L8I/Nc3ChWuuPve2F4sDns= X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) On 22 February 2013 02:14, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > So until Custom is fixed to actually properly handle customisation of > hooks (e.g. by storing "add functions foo, bar, and baz" rather than > "ignore current value and just set it to (foo bar baz)"). This sentence seems to be missing its main clause=85 --=20 http://rrt.sc3d.org From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 22 09:23:46 2013 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2013 14:23:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43953 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8tXN-000611-QU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:23:46 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:49168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8tXL-00060s-SL for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:23:44 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFFsoXXp/2dsb2JhbABEhke4Rxdzgh4BAQQBIzMjEAsODAIYDgICFBgNJIgeBq5fkk6BI45UgRMDiGGcGYFegxU X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFFsoXXp/2dsb2JhbABEhke4Rxdzgh4BAQQBIzMjEAsODAIYDgICFBgNJIgeBq5fkk6BI45UgRMDiGGcGYFegxU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="1965560" Received: from 108-161-117-233.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([108.161.117.233]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 22 Feb 2013 09:22:20 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 9B1FF6BF3C; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:22:20 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Reuben Thomas Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle Message-ID: References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:22:20 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Reuben Thomas's message of "Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:43:01 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> So until Custom is fixed to actually properly handle customisation of >> hooks (e.g. by storing "add functions foo, bar, and baz" rather than >> "ignore current value and just set it to (foo bar baz)"). > This sentence seems to be missing its main clause=E2=80=A6 That's not just an appearance. Its main clause is: So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom for hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably expect will only be modified by the user's customization. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 22 14:39:39 2013 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2013 19:39:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44680 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8yT3-0006zp-Kv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:39:38 -0500 Received: from exprod7og123.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.24]:34968) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8ySx-0006ze-Th for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:39:34 -0500 Received: from mail-lb0-f199.google.com ([209.85.217.199]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob123.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUSfJHiMuPqPIzfUmfneh/HJaJIsMMUmO@postini.com; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:38:08 PST Received: by mail-lb0-f199.google.com with SMTP id m4so1445298lbo.2 for <13780@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:38:06 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=7MJPbTWaarITY0XO1p4aj8TaWj/wKAFlthYLlES4Guc=; b=Pl4yuctkhdqnK7eMpSDIiQsqS5DxPJIs1KyiJBYTNLagltjobbY/tblM59CNJOeByZ bKZ8jlZ6ipPCKHor2KafNJ0ibss2nrxxDTd9XeSAHLZ8A5Dvd2qqp289Ny5RKphqblm6 y/YzLVHQdrdcDiMLXGwTEY/KsNdtQq4LpSVudzZ/6NM/HD5g9+M8oymERfFYXzqwP74S sCpCkCMEda5eS2XI0rS7JF5O8AKa4GaYfeG2+dWJVm4iVWGQlNeZHOWXFGA+FTtRU/hO HOi/1WYfsQaY7k9Ood9M4xj9zEi8TLckP1mhUSBBHi02WS3BCZZPCF3B7X8zCE/Bymqb pAGg== X-Received: by 10.152.130.131 with SMTP id oe3mr2787948lab.1.1361561886291; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:38:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.130.131 with SMTP id oe3mr2787939lab.1.1361561886121; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:38:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.5.40 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:38:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:38:06 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle From: Reuben Thomas To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkHJl9tUu9PYbB+23w+tcDVOCdoHvSDIuu9T7oG18cA5ynIjVDBk8szF4CflLIAycablDBPTAspQc3uTfneQV+hhxNcC4emfccPTXwZ1UztXGu3nd5/xd31+jhM8F7szgepiO0hUU3uZ7nk/Gq0tbqUbwwFNfFwl1uFeav38lYGJi39ukc= X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) On 22 February 2013 14:22, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom for > hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably > expect will only be modified by the user's customization. So do you think the existing customization ability for find-file-hook should be removed? Or at least some kind of warning attached? -- http://rrt.sc3d.org From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 22 15:59:40 2013 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2013 20:59:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44713 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8ziV-0000Qf-Rx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:59:40 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:28532) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8ziU-0000QZ-Bf for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:59:38 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhAKABK/CFFsoXXp/2dsb2JhbABEvgwEA3sXc4IeAQEEAVYjEAsOJhIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOIYZwZgV6DFQ X-IPAS-Result: AhAKABK/CFFsoXXp/2dsb2JhbABEvgwEA3sXc4IeAQEEAVYjEAsOJhIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOIYZwZgV6DFQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="2000477" Received: from 108-161-117-233.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([108.161.117.233]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 22 Feb 2013 15:58:12 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3E5016CB02; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:58:13 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Reuben Thomas Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle Message-ID: References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:58:13 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Reuben Thomas's message of "Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:38:06 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom for >> hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably >> expect will only be modified by the user's customization. > So do you think the existing customization ability for find-file-hook > should be removed? Or at least some kind of warning attached? Yes, Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 28 04:52:52 2020 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2020 08:52:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47071 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXhCN-0004XV-Vn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 04:52:52 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-f45.google.com ([209.85.218.45]:45796) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXhCK-0004XG-Qk for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 04:52:50 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f45.google.com with SMTP id dt13so6030222ejb.12 for <13780@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:52:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4VZTc9fOlolqhiQL7yLHevRTRePO/PSlSe437tvKVhs=; b=EdhX91KntwGrJBD4mpQfxqBBxqZ+70IuxV4PU9hH59RfjIeDmQnmMSreSJ4qxo2jFe HCOVagVOEMT6KDHARbp11XYOuIM71xSw25eZIvmTh0s33YnnRSvuSS9pxHEu+2G2GfjD 8Z/6l+bgI4r0Tlt6oWWPFpNLlL7U9UKeCRzxq/4qleFx29bzZSSxmhbhBRw9W9E4MMw/ EB7tIShwpuJyk2BolOVkH7XMjF02Vofw3d/DCDLbNMeQcu/Z6K4UUitoIhpDODMQrjlZ tbXJx6j/3ihmBCSfd0yKfSX9oA+qayNZkMADtSe8RNg6WvpE6kx1uPSZqJeaSCCsYKF1 RWtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533oKtQ4/qdFmy+vs0KQR2YtAg0cDjmpu97WnrzuJBpUOMh8/S1+ j/ReQ5y8GGynTKGmSRiBWj2nmkfms0Xgcc1N7/I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy1rCrjk09U1eUpoIUhKo9rWW9ToHut8cWmTSDmKf2CqQpZEPOJoOxMzDbwfV0HmUc6DcRTviSFNfAljuNMMVs= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:bc91:: with SMTP id lv17mr6734975ejb.249.1603875162879; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:52:42 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:58:13 -0500") References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:52:42 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000591e1f05b2b74942" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000591e1f05b2b74942 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Stefan Monnier writes: >>> So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom for >>> hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably >>> expect will only be modified by the user's customization. >> So do you think the existing customization ability for find-file-hook >> should be removed? Or at least some kind of warning attached? > > Yes, So how about the attached? --000000000000591e1f05b2b74942 Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Don-t-allow-customizing-find-file-hook.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Don-t-allow-customizing-find-file-hook.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 5fb0254658b2a17e_0.1 RnJvbSBkNTA0ZjdhMDJmZjFhZGNlZTYwYjk1NjllNmExNjFkNTBlN2UzN2M3IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5AbWFyeGlzdC5zZT4KRGF0 ZTogV2VkLCAyOCBPY3QgMjAyMCAwOTo1MTowNSArMDEwMApTdWJqZWN0OiBbUEFUQ0hdIERvbid0 IGFsbG93IGN1c3RvbWl6aW5nIGZpbmQtZmlsZS1ob29rCgoqIGxpc3AvZmlsZXMuZWwgKGZpbmQt ZmlsZS1ob29rKTogTWFrZSBpbnRvIGRlZnZhci4gIChCdWcjMTM3ODApCi0tLQogbGlzcC9maWxl cy5lbCB8IDggKystLS0tLS0KIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAyIGluc2VydGlvbnMoKyksIDYgZGVs ZXRpb25zKC0pCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvbGlzcC9maWxlcy5lbCBiL2xpc3AvZmlsZXMuZWwKaW5k ZXggZmRmNzU4YWQ5Mi4uM2QzZGVjZTY5MSAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvbGlzcC9maWxlcy5lbAorKysg Yi9saXNwL2ZpbGVzLmVsCkBAIC00OTgsMTUgKzQ5OCwxMSBAQCBmaW5kLWZpbGUtbm90LWZvdW5k LWZ1bmN0aW9ucwogOzs7KHB1dCAnZmluZC1maWxlLWhvb2sgJ3Blcm1hbmVudC1sb2NhbCB0KQog OzsgSSBmb3VuZCBzb21lIGV4dGVybmFsIGZpbGVzIHN0aWxsIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBvYnNvbGV0ZSBm b3JtIGluIDIwMTguCiAoZGVmaW5lLW9ic29sZXRlLXZhcmlhYmxlLWFsaWFzICdmaW5kLWZpbGUt aG9va3MgJ2ZpbmQtZmlsZS1ob29rICIyMi4xIikKLShkZWZjdXN0b20gZmluZC1maWxlLWhvb2sg bmlsCisoZGVmdmFyIGZpbmQtZmlsZS1ob29rIG5pbAogICAiTGlzdCBvZiBmdW5jdGlvbnMgdG8g YmUgY2FsbGVkIGFmdGVyIGEgYnVmZmVyIGlzIGxvYWRlZCBmcm9tIGEgZmlsZS4KIFRoZSBidWZm ZXIncyBsb2NhbCB2YXJpYWJsZXMgKGlmIGFueSkgd2lsbCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gcHJvY2Vzc2VkIGJl Zm9yZSB0aGUKIGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBhcmUgY2FsbGVkLiAgVGhpcyBpbmNsdWRlcyBkaXJlY3Rvcnkt bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGVzLCBpZiBhbnksCi1mb3IgdGhlIGZpbGUncyBkaXJlY3RvcnkuIgotICA6 Z3JvdXAgJ2ZpbmQtZmlsZQotICA6dHlwZSAnaG9vawotICA6b3B0aW9ucyAnKGF1dG8taW5zZXJ0 KQotICA6dmVyc2lvbiAiMjIuMSIpCitmb3IgdGhlIGZpbGUncyBkaXJlY3RvcnkuIikKIAogOzsg SSBmb3VuZCBzb21lIGV4dGVybmFsIGZpbGVzIHN0aWxsIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBvYnNvbGV0ZSBmb3Jt IGluIDIwMTguCiAoZGVmaW5lLW9ic29sZXRlLXZhcmlhYmxlLWFsaWFzICd3cml0ZS1maWxlLWhv b2tzICd3cml0ZS1maWxlLWZ1bmN0aW9ucyAiMjIuMSIpCi0tIAoyLjI4LjAKCg== --000000000000591e1f05b2b74942-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 28 05:07:40 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2020 09:07:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47099 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXhQi-0004wQ-8h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 05:07:40 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-f41.google.com ([209.85.218.41]:39240) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXhQg-0004wA-1t for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 05:07:38 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f41.google.com with SMTP id bn26so6117150ejb.6 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 02:07:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nlacGPeHfBEmNzcJBc1qNHjfNCD2IsFOxO8w31BsBMU=; b=WO76HNFM8jEYOY8rkU/bC7Ii380ArZGWAsczJU+4Zr26NdU+VqEwxgvp7HkeutPcqm CsSghW+z6iKkn2b/Ne+1weCD44HIMpNoMup/4AbJc5CHwXw8PMADBZz2EBWv1ivhEFjy I7Ofbx66A5VypddlV1pYEA+rp0LYZDpM+YOAtxcy/wKtRLrzWD7OdjhC7b2/1tLzNKiH 1gg+Wo/NdA6AM0dwn3I8CcFoA/QzOCPZeUDxSQhEOf/jTQTvplcJUUf9h9rNtpPSy8fF RSA5EtykL1pRCCMehugNuFReFXWuLnTW/W7SMrjAMB3Mf+uDJ2XKOt2NgnU9YmlmO9TC S63w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533GcnWQTgSFmnOH/njSC27zVMU22WH6oU5AqZlONIfllEdyMagH 3JFwuROBv7wBjd4C5A8V6VVbHDCNz0Ef6GEUkuw372kL X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzS5aa/mKIKh45RmHvoamqJ0ivkU2qkSa+c5q77O4uIwlBiBXfS0UByr17v3/C80IDJPS/Br80bGCgj93zkk6U= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:1246:: with SMTP id u6mr6519685eja.432.1603876052178; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 02:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 02:07:31 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 02:07:31 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: tags 13780 + patch thanks Content analysis details: (2.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.218.41 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.85.218.41 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: tags 13780 + patch thanks Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.85.218.41 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.218.41 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines tags 13780 + patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 28 11:15:14 2020 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2020 15:15:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXnAP-0002NY-MX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 11:15:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43986) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kXnAN-0002NI-N5 for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 11:15:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46070) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXnAH-0005o7-Qe; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 11:15:05 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2723 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kXnAG-0003MT-AT; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 11:15:05 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:15:02 +0200 Message-Id: <83sg9ycrgp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:52:42 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rrt@sc3d.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 01:52:42 -0700 > Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas > > Stefan Monnier writes: > > >>> So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom for > >>> hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably > >>> expect will only be modified by the user's customization. > >> So do you think the existing customization ability for find-file-hook > >> should be removed? Or at least some kind of warning attached? > > > > Yes, > > So how about the attached? That's a backward-incompatible change, isn't it? Now a user who types "M-x set-variable RET" will not be able to set this variable, it can only be set via "M-:". Do we have a serious enough reason for that? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 24 21:19:06 2020 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2020 02:19:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33722 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1khkOg-0006Ll-7R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:19:06 -0500 Received: from mail-ej1-f51.google.com ([209.85.218.51]:37513) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1khkOe-0006LH-IP for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:19:05 -0500 Received: by mail-ej1-f51.google.com with SMTP id z5so822066ejp.4 for <13780@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:19:04 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MUvozmruPMt/igELpiR4PLL59ZDuihYkrYYpjSznWDQ=; b=D7dI0+RODMwrpVswMiz42vzz/cmNvS3EW/QaQL8FjrVhSe2vE0KodIuuFMqMynIAZi Y/1c2KSvoYgMprgA18mWYU7VdW6E9HifQIda+xU+3l1KCVD29mW23C0x4EIDvSzU8nTm /9UhKURyBfWQ7JMawIVSNeevBo3yhYMq6iB8XmSBlftFQEW6es3iGOPIvoaRPVKIo7yq 6HwaP3BSt8Q+1x9KaEqGY8t/P3jJTUTB/XqXv9YnG871t7tjYUVwQvncngy2xVdyTDD/ hM0a877uKs72vqbn9gHVfrvQr0BUfuAPXkYmSlE9DrPYkXRTxQ2lxCRw3eovsuqgEiai 98rQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530uRY4mvnNaya2s6rTpajON54J9++rQsrN0htWvUC80Tl9lu6Kx J8L+Luk6Oy6aX9n0FbAdE1OZ32b1oNgENGrMbV0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzLtJIeZRdqbCktugotrAHMCk83uPzz4M4t2QlewNdbn9nScRwoGb8fQLms3zrC22BQctkrPnZ17xPjWUDUcgA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:eb50:: with SMTP id mc16mr799652ejb.420.1606270738692; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:18:58 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83sg9ycrgp.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:15:02 +0200") References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> <83sg9ycrgp.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:18:58 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rrt@sc3d.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Stefan Monnier writes: >> >> >>> So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom fo= r >> >>> hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably >> >>> expect will only be modified by the user's customization. >> >> So do you think the existing customization ability for find-file-hook >> >> should be removed? Or at least some kind of warning attached? >> > >> > Yes, >> >> So how about the attached? > > That's a backward-incompatible change, isn't it? Now a user who types > "M-x set-variable RET" will not be able to set this variable, it can > only be set via "M-:". Do we have a serious enough reason for that? It will be a backward-incompatible change, yes. The reasons are the ones given in the discussion of this bug. I think they make sense, FWIW: Reuben Thomas writes: > I just spent a while trying to work out why a third-party mode I had > just installed was not automatically added to my find-file-hook, even > though the mode's file calls add-hook when it is loaded, and I took care > to ensure the mode was autoloaded. I discovered that the problem was > that the mode was loaded by my customization file, custom.el, but later, > the same file overwrote find-file-hook, because I had customized > find-file-hook. > > I found that the reason for the customization was to get flymake-mode > automatically activated; I've filed a separate issue about this > (#13779). After removing the customization, my find-file-hook was set up > correctly (except for flymake-mode). > > The real problem here is that find-file-hook is clearly meant to be > customizable (there is even a check box for auto-indent in its > customization dialog), yet customizing it seems to cause a race > condition where depending in what order files are autoloaded, hooks may > fail to be added properly to find-file-hook. Stefan Monnier writes: >>> So until Custom is fixed to actually properly handle customisation of >>> hooks (e.g. by storing "add functions foo, bar, and baz" rather than >>> "ignore current value and just set it to (foo bar baz)"). >> This sentence seems to be missing its main clause=E2=80=A6 > > That's not just an appearance. Its main clause is: > > So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom for > hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably > expect will only be modified by the user's customization. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 25 10:19:52 2020 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2020 15:19:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36699 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1khwaG-0000t3-4g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 10:19:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53240) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1khwaD-0000sr-Ux for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 10:19:50 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45991) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1khwa7-0007mw-Pq; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 10:19:43 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2607 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1khwa7-0006fT-4f; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 10:19:43 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:19:43 +0200 Message-Id: <83sg8xsbu8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:18:58 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> <83sg9ycrgp.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rrt@sc3d.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:18:58 -0800 > Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rrt@sc3d.org > > Stefan Monnier writes: > > >>> So until Custom is fixed to actually properly handle customisation of > >>> hooks (e.g. by storing "add functions foo, bar, and baz" rather than > >>> "ignore current value and just set it to (foo bar baz)"). > >> This sentence seems to be missing its main clause… > > > > That's not just an appearance. Its main clause is: > > > > So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom for > > hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably > > expect will only be modified by the user's customization. IMO, this rationale is good for future additions, not for already-existing user options. We cannot un-defcustom a user option just because someone became confused by some subtle use case. This is the price we pay for the flexibility and power we have in Emacs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 25 16:07:18 2020 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2020 21:07:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37301 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ki20K-0000yn-SB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:07:18 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-f41.google.com ([209.85.208.41]:43295) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ki20I-0000yG-VO for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:07:08 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-f41.google.com with SMTP id q16so4017739edv.10 for <13780@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 13:07:06 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=R5MakfGuNifGxYeQrbLLwjTJnGTYJgMo72a1wGmlhg0=; b=HZk6BgjuXVz5NNnklGkrOEQerNdDjl65+wzkbxQsNvu+aniNb76DxRz9N8c7xe+ViK HXjhXFOIqLrfEJBsU2YnjJskARC3KSL280XNzypoL+p2W03VhvorqABvFpJpmCAkHWJl YANt7DAMNKspiOWCqpsGJgipEMeJrPRivrf7Pk4HQsIJZfEVf0jXeeCwgkx2FVLizhfH LV2DysKFeUnHVG/kBg4C3padF2Hvcxo+pvXdDoC5J0fxRzqJXuyrul86vKQrZsJefB6d 6GU7kFtbHB+WZjlQMODhYiwRyIPR4hp4uAqHCeR0eJq/H2u9q7J0qQCtv6sc+tweGXrF OOkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Bk+XRsBgYqCC/2qWBWONyOFBW5DDs/6zrTei9+vi4qYt8rfF0 lt2YrZ7R1IpZF+wPsBrr8HtiVbo7lL//yzAn+lVhraBcNRo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyAuZIUwFwPrUGE8R6RCW0Y1obZ23vm2txsQhzMLeRRx0ry8bZImo8SfdfialVdztCbhOGSW7m9nkEcn7IwpCU= X-Received: by 2002:a50:da84:: with SMTP id q4mr3719028edj.377.1606338421350; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 13:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:07:00 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83sg8xsbu8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> <83sg9ycrgp.fsf@gnu.org> <83sg8xsbu8.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:07:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rrt@sc3d.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Stefan Monnier writes: >> >> >>> So until Custom is fixed to actually properly handle customisation o= f >> >>> hooks (e.g. by storing "add functions foo, bar, and baz" rather than >> >>> "ignore current value and just set it to (foo bar baz)"). >> >> This sentence seems to be missing its main clause=E2=80=A6 >> > >> > That's not just an appearance. Its main clause is: >> > >> > So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom f= or >> > hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably >> > expect will only be modified by the user's customization. > > IMO, this rationale is good for future additions, not for > already-existing user options. We cannot un-defcustom a user option > just because someone became confused by some subtle use case. This is > the price we pay for the flexibility and power we have in Emacs. Fine by me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 04 06:05:55 2020 Received: (at 13780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2020 11:05:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43006 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kl8uQ-0006D3-Q0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 06:05:54 -0500 Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com ([209.85.210.175]:36330) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kl8uQ-0006Ck-1P for 13780@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 06:05:54 -0500 Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id b26so3471417pfi.3 for <13780@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 03:05:54 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mD21cwzbp88uOP7sAFp6XAnd204E5YNo6SRH8EEx5Wk=; b=jcTfzs2vnxtgK2TanuAkkBH3DRo7eJEtCblZJ52RNHg16eto7cnrslnhEtgIs6/piO Y/Z9h4wek/lf7yELGfTsdE+7Ma4IGJiw9TsYJr2Pi+3+4sDUy72DZ7gq+vYqH5mHUL/t jrm9YzgAgMvRKc6zx5TCWNRlmkfH6WYR27Sh8JlVWZfmURKOvl+KrcseadvgnybppV95 LPWejC5ZE0hFXHuUbV892ge7c7i8OJrhqXAefvb4ehuqkN/NbtMN8kR04kUl0+DNnR1J sFn2KwhkNwV5UUPQpshsygBk25Rm0QRtWA6Qpsc9CQR+ez8dkc3ZdnwccoTkWicWkzUk MS8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533mk10dytsVY9q5iL0KfWmP5K0tE9A8IUGFEXSHi/dLhgUbYBQN T+3gU5hgstKG0zzIN8KjG0JG5+OygZBdxHL6esE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxmZdZNNHGIHP3H/RiFdIUAg+ocXRWY247i0bJOsPbYEJNyXNPuCpatmPZXwX8tCMpuZJcO23amwkLUtEtqUOY= X-Received: by 2002:a63:cd09:: with SMTP id i9mr7027688pgg.363.1607079948459; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 03:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 06:05:48 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:07:00 -0500") References: <87k3q1gpba.fsf@sc3d.org> <83sg9ycrgp.fsf@gnu.org> <83sg8xsbu8.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 06:05:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13780: 24.2; Making find-file-hook customizable seems to cause troublle To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13780 Cc: 13780@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rrt@sc3d.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 13780 + wontfix close 13780 thanks Stefan Kangas writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> Stefan Monnier writes: >>> >>> >>> So until Custom is fixed to actually properly handle customisation = of >>> >>> hooks (e.g. by storing "add functions foo, bar, and baz" rather tha= n >>> >>> "ignore current value and just set it to (foo bar baz)"). >>> >> This sentence seems to be missing its main clause=E2=80=A6 >>> > >>> > That's not just an appearance. Its main clause is: >>> > >>> > So until Custom ...blabla... I think it's better to use defcustom = for >>> > hooks very sparingly, i.e. only for those hook we can reasonably >>> > expect will only be modified by the user's customization. >> >> IMO, this rationale is good for future additions, not for >> already-existing user options. We cannot un-defcustom a user option >> just because someone became confused by some subtle use case. This is >> the price we pay for the flexibility and power we have in Emacs. > > Fine by me. No further comments within 7 days, closing as wontfix. From unknown Tue Jun 24 06:54:40 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2021 12:24:13 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator