From unknown Mon Jun 23 02:21:24 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#13690 <13690@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#13690 <13690@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up Reply-To: bug#13690 <13690@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 09:21:24 +0000 retitle 13690 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up reassign 13690 emacs submitter 13690 Stephen Berman severity 13690 minor tag 13690 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 11 18:25:30 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Feb 2013 23:25:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51212 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U52kb-0007Sm-8A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:25:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39406) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U52kY-0007Sb-77 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:25:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U52k8-0001PT-VM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:25:03 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:36527) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U52k8-0001PP-SO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:25:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50744) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U52k5-0001Rw-7l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:25:00 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U52k1-0001OP-UY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:24:57 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:62089) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U52k1-0001O4-KG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:24:53 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.27]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lr5Xp-1UaElM1wRf-00eejW for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 00:24:51 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Feb 2013 23:24:51 -0000 Received: from i59F5574C.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.87.76] by mail.gmx.net (mp027) with SMTP; 12 Feb 2013 00:24:51 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+cduE/vkacnv6SPFf8prVROOHcj8/3xQe41Uhcai pj94V8SKDn2J9e From: Stephen Berman To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 00:24:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) 0. emacs -Q 1. Type `M-x customize-option RET scroll-conservatively RET', set the value to 1 and save for the current session (or just evaluate `(setq scroll-conservatively 1)'). 2. Type `C-h r m Basic RET m Repeating RET' to go to the Info node (emacs)Repeating. 3. Type `u' or `^' to go up to the node (emacs)Basic, with point on the menu Entry "Repeating". ==> The line point is on is at the top of the window, so all higher lines in the buffer are out of view. In general, when scroll-conservatively is set to n (n > 0), then if Info-up puts point on the nth line counting from eob, or on a lower line (closer to eob), the start of that line is at window-start; if Info-up puts point on a higher line than the nth above eob, then the whole buffer is visible (up to recentering). If scroll-conservatively has its default value 0, the buffer display following Info-up is always recentered. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.7 (x86_64-suse-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.4.4) of 2013-02-11 on rosalinde Bzr revision: 111738 eggert@cs.ucla.edu-20130211194204-wj2qoqst9qvz53as Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11203000 System Description: openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Configured using: `configure --without-toolkit-scroll-bars CFLAGS=-g3 -O0' Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=local locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 12 11:15:52 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2013 16:15:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5IWN-00078V-A9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:15:51 -0500 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:44177) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5IWK-00078K-13 for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:15:49 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MI400E007NJ5K00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:14:22 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MI400CD57RXYOE1@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:14:22 +0200 (IST) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:14:33 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up In-reply-to: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Stephen Berman Message-id: <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > From: Stephen Berman > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 00:24:49 +0100 > > 0. emacs -Q > 1. Type `M-x customize-option RET scroll-conservatively RET', set the > value to 1 and save for the current session (or just evaluate `(setq > scroll-conservatively 1)'). > 2. Type `C-h r m Basic RET m Repeating RET' to go to the Info node > (emacs)Repeating. > 3. Type `u' or `^' to go up to the node (emacs)Basic, with point on the > menu Entry "Repeating". > ==> The line point is on is at the top of the window, so all higher > lines in the buffer are out of view. > > In general, when scroll-conservatively is set to n (n > 0), then if > Info-up puts point on the nth line counting from eob, or on a lower line > (closer to eob), the start of that line is at window-start; if Info-up > puts point on a higher line than the nth above eob, then the whole > buffer is visible (up to recentering). If scroll-conservatively has its > default value 0, the buffer display following Info-up is always > recentered. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.179.55.172 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.7 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.4379] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) > From: Stephen Berman > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 00:24:49 +0100 > > 0. emacs -Q > 1. Type `M-x customize-option RET scroll-conservatively RET', set the > value to 1 and save for the current session (or just evaluate `(setq > scroll-conservatively 1)'). > 2. Type `C-h r m Basic RET m Repeating RET' to go to the Info node > (emacs)Repeating. > 3. Type `u' or `^' to go up to the node (emacs)Basic, with point on the > menu Entry "Repeating". > ==> The line point is on is at the top of the window, so all higher > lines in the buffer are out of view. > > In general, when scroll-conservatively is set to n (n > 0), then if > Info-up puts point on the nth line counting from eob, or on a lower line > (closer to eob), the start of that line is at window-start; if Info-up > puts point on a higher line than the nth above eob, then the whole > buffer is visible (up to recentering). If scroll-conservatively has its > default value 0, the buffer display following Info-up is always > recentered. This is exactly the behavior under scroll-conservatively: Scroll up to this many lines, to bring point back on screen. If point moves off-screen, redisplay will scroll by up to `scroll-conservatively' lines in order to bring point just barely onto the screen again. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And this is what happens in the use case you describe. So I'm unsure why you regard this a bug. What did you expect instead, and why? In general, setting scroll-conservatively to 1 tells Emacs that you are prepared to see as little as 1 line of context. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 12 17:01:35 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2013 22:01:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52683 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5Nuv-0000yg-8v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:01:33 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:62213) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5Nur-0000yD-E0 for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:01:31 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.19]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LrXxT-1V42yn0WxZ-013MSg for <13690@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:01:00 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 12 Feb 2013 22:00:59 -0000 Received: from i59F5479C.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.71.156] by mail.gmx.net (mp019) with SMTP; 12 Feb 2013 23:00:59 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19fE9smdqBfu4XsI4Y2aercD6zzPbvvK2njOyJcHU 8Bd0iRjSRNQbKU From: Stephen Berman To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:00:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:14:33 +0200") Message-ID: <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:14:33 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stephen Berman >> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 00:24:49 +0100 >> >> 0. emacs -Q >> 1. Type `M-x customize-option RET scroll-conservatively RET', set the >> value to 1 and save for the current session (or just evaluate `(setq >> scroll-conservatively 1)'). >> 2. Type `C-h r m Basic RET m Repeating RET' to go to the Info node >> (emacs)Repeating. >> 3. Type `u' or `^' to go up to the node (emacs)Basic, with point on the >> menu Entry "Repeating". >> ==> The line point is on is at the top of the window, so all higher >> lines in the buffer are out of view. >> >> In general, when scroll-conservatively is set to n (n > 0), then if >> Info-up puts point on the nth line counting from eob, or on a lower line >> (closer to eob), the start of that line is at window-start; if Info-up >> puts point on a higher line than the nth above eob, then the whole >> buffer is visible (up to recentering). If scroll-conservatively has its >> default value 0, the buffer display following Info-up is always >> recentered. > > This is exactly the behavior under scroll-conservatively: > > Scroll up to this many lines, to bring point back on screen. > If point moves off-screen, redisplay will scroll by up to > `scroll-conservatively' lines in order to bring point just barely > onto the screen again. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > And this is what happens in the use case you describe. So I'm unsure > why you regard this a bug. What did you expect instead, and why? I expected to see the whole node, or at least as much as possible while keeping the target line in view. I expect this because to all appearances Info-up, like the other Info node navigation commands, is a jumping (or zapping, warping, i.e. movement in one fell swoop), not a scrolling, operation. And when I jump to another node I expect to see all of it, or as much as possible. I find support for this interpretation from the doc string of Info-up, which says: "Go to the superior node of this node." not: "Scroll to the superior node...". So I had no reason to expect, as a user, that setting scroll-conservatively should affect Info node navigation. And I'd be surprised if someone deliberately uses scroll-conservatively to regulate navigation between Info nodes, because its specific effect on a given use of Info-up depends, as I noted above, on how many menu lines are in the parent node, and this varies from node to node. Moreover, looking at the the code I see no calls of scrolling functions in Info-up or its subroutines (in particular, Info-find-node-2). But since narrowing is involved, I'd be interested to know if narrowing triggers scrolling and hence the effect of scroll-conservatively. I see that scroll_conservatively is only used in redisplay_window. Does calling Fnarrow_to_region entail calling redisplay_window? I'm interested not just because of Info-up but also because I have code that uses narrowing and I've observed similar effects there to the Info-up effect I reported (though it appears that my code shows the effects even when scroll-conservatively is set to 0, so it may not be related). > In general, setting scroll-conservatively to 1 tells Emacs that you > are prepared to see as little as 1 line of context. But again, as a user, I'd expect this only if what I'm doing recognizably involves scrolling, which Info-up does not, from the user's point of view. Anyway, if you (and the other Emacs maintainers) agree with my arguments, would it be acceptable to add a call to recenter at the end of Info-up? Doing that gives the display I expect when scroll-conservatively is non-zero and makes no difference when it is zero. (I also call recenter to work around the similar problems in my own code.) And if you don't agree with my arguments, i.e. if you think scroll-conservatively should really be able to affect Info node navigation, would you at least consider adding an option to do recentering? (Of course, if the problem (as I see it) is really due to narrowing, then it probably shows up in other packages, so a general approach would be better, but at least this could be an interim solution.) Steve Berman From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 12 23:02:57 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2013 04:02:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53020 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5TYe-0005kQ-Lb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:02:57 -0500 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:36971) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5TYa-0005kE-Ir for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:02:54 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MI500K004EEKI00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 06:02:22 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MI500K214JXH160@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 06:02:22 +0200 (IST) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 06:02:34 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up In-reply-to: <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Stephen Berman Message-id: <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) > From: Stephen Berman > Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:00:56 +0100 > > > Scroll up to this many lines, to bring point back on screen. > > If point moves off-screen, redisplay will scroll by up to > > `scroll-conservatively' lines in order to bring point just barely > > onto the screen again. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > And this is what happens in the use case you describe. So I'm unsure > > why you regard this a bug. What did you expect instead, and why? > > I expected to see the whole node, or at least as much as possible while > keeping the target line in view. I expect this because to all > appearances Info-up, like the other Info node navigation commands, is a > jumping (or zapping, warping, i.e. movement in one fell swoop), not a > scrolling, operation. scroll-conservatively affects _any_ movement within a buffer, not just to scrolling commands. This is by popular demand; you can find my questions about this and answers by others a year or two ago in the archives. E.g., scroll-conservatively affects commands such as goto-char, even if you move far away in the buffer. > I see that scroll_conservatively is only used in redisplay_window. > Does calling Fnarrow_to_region entail calling redisplay_window? redisplay_window is the workhorse of the display engine in GUI sessions. It is called for _any_ kind of redisplay of any window. Narrowing only requires redisplay if it affects the portion of the buffer shown in the window. > > In general, setting scroll-conservatively to 1 tells Emacs that you > > are prepared to see as little as 1 line of context. > > But again, as a user, I'd expect this only if what I'm doing > recognizably involves scrolling, which Info-up does not, from the user's > point of view. Alas, other users' expectations are different. > Anyway, if you (and the other Emacs maintainers) agree with my > arguments, would it be acceptable to add a call to recenter at the end > of Info-up? I don't mind. But if you want that, why do you set scroll-conservatively to a non-nil value at all? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 13 08:37:37 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2013 13:37:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53456 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5cWm-0008Gh-Uc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 08:37:37 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:65385) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5cWk-0008Fk-0l for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 08:37:35 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.28]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MHuiJ-1U4FbU1kUP-003dnx for <13690@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:37:01 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 13 Feb 2013 13:37:00 -0000 Received: from i59F54952.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.73.82] by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 13 Feb 2013 14:37:00 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19y44E6C/hy+w8wq5Ieix4QABDyxsxFYKbyg8Ir27 wiIGzHfeB+fE6I From: Stephen Berman To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:36:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 13 Feb 2013 06:02:34 +0200") Message-ID: <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 06:02:34 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stephen Berman >> Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:00:56 +0100 >> >> > Scroll up to this many lines, to bring point back on screen. >> > If point moves off-screen, redisplay will scroll by up to >> > `scroll-conservatively' lines in order to bring point just barely >> > onto the screen again. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > >> > And this is what happens in the use case you describe. So I'm unsure >> > why you regard this a bug. What did you expect instead, and why? >> >> I expected to see the whole node, or at least as much as possible while >> keeping the target line in view. I expect this because to all >> appearances Info-up, like the other Info node navigation commands, is a >> jumping (or zapping, warping, i.e. movement in one fell swoop), not a >> scrolling, operation. > > scroll-conservatively affects _any_ movement within a buffer, not just > to scrolling commands. I think this should be made clear in the documentation. In the Emacs Lisp manual, scroll-conservatively is only mentioned in the context of textual scrolling and there's no indication that it has wider scope. The variable's doc string doesn't say it only affects movement by scrolling, but given its name and the manual discussion, this is a plausible assumption, so its scope should also be made clear here. A less misleading name would also help, e.g. restore-point-conservatively. > This is by popular demand; you can find my > questions about this and answers by others a year or two ago in the > archives. E.g., scroll-conservatively affects commands such as > goto-char, even if you move far away in the buffer. Do you mean the thread starting here: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-06/msg01011.html and continued in bug#6631? Even Juanma Barranquero, who in that thread said: "I would prefer for Emacs *never* recenter unless I ask it explicitly via C-l," subsequently added: "No, of course I don't mind M-g M-g recentering. I only object to recentering during scrolling (be line-by-line or page-by-page)." If he's reading this, I'm curious if he is in favor of scroll-conservatively influencing Info-up, as it does now, or would prefer (or at least accept) recentering. >> I see that scroll_conservatively is only used in redisplay_window. >> Does calling Fnarrow_to_region entail calling redisplay_window? > > redisplay_window is the workhorse of the display engine in GUI > sessions. It is called for _any_ kind of redisplay of any window. > > Narrowing only requires redisplay if it affects the portion of the > buffer shown in the window. This is certainly the case with Info-up (and also with my code). Since this doesn't involve scrolling conceptually (as opposed to its implementation), this strengthens the case for clarifying the documentation, at least. >> > In general, setting scroll-conservatively to 1 tells Emacs that you >> > are prepared to see as little as 1 line of context. >> >> But again, as a user, I'd expect this only if what I'm doing >> recognizably involves scrolling, which Info-up does not, from the user's >> point of view. > > Alas, other users' expectations are different. I didn't see anything to that effect in the thread cited above; did I miss it or were such expectations expressed elsewhere? Again, I'd be quite surprised if anyone really expects and prefers the current effect of scroll-conservatively on Info-up. >> Anyway, if you (and the other Emacs maintainers) agree with my >> arguments, would it be acceptable to add a call to recenter at the end >> of Info-up? > > I don't mind. But if you want that, why do you set > scroll-conservatively to a non-nil value at all? Again, I had no idea, and certainly no expectation, that setting scroll-conservatively would affect Info-up. I set scroll-conservatively to 1 so that when point is at the top of the window and I type C-p, or point is at the bottom of the window and I type C-n, then the text scrolls by just one line. If you and the other maintainers don't mind, I'd suggest installing the following patch. If anyone screams bloody murder, I can make recentering an option. Steve Berman 2013-02-13 Stephen Berman * info.el (Info-up): Even if scroll-conservatively is non-zero, display as much of the superior node above the target line as possible. (Bug#13690) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Info-up patch === modified file 'lisp/info.el' *** lisp/info.el 2013-02-01 16:46:46 +0000 --- lisp/info.el 2013-02-13 13:25:51 +0000 *************** *** 2246,2252 **** nil t)) (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) (goto-char p) ! (Info-restore-point Info-history))))) (defun Info-history-back () "Go back in the history to the last node visited." --- 2246,2255 ---- nil t)) (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) (goto-char p) ! (Info-restore-point Info-history)))) ! ;; If scroll-conservatively is non-zero, display as much of the ! ;; superior node above the target line as possible (bug#13690). ! (recenter)) (defun Info-history-back () "Go back in the history to the last node visited." --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 13 12:41:40 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2013 17:41:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54470 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5gKx-0005XX-KE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 12:41:40 -0500 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:40805) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5gKv-0005XP-Bl for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 12:41:38 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MI6007006DLTW00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:40:59 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MI6006306GA9AA1@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:40:59 +0200 (IST) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:41:13 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up In-reply-to: <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Stephen Berman Message-id: <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) > From: Stephen Berman > Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:36:58 +0100 > > > scroll-conservatively affects _any_ movement within a buffer, not just > > to scrolling commands. > > I think this should be made clear in the documentation. In the Emacs > Lisp manual, scroll-conservatively is only mentioned in the context of > textual scrolling and there's no indication that it has wider scope. > The variable's doc string doesn't say it only affects movement by > scrolling, but given its name and the manual discussion, this is a > plausible assumption, so its scope should also be made clear here. A > less misleading name would also help, e.g. restore-point-conservatively. A name change is out of question at this point, I think, as this option is very old. As for documentation, feel free to send patches that clarify this. Note that the applicability of scroll-* options to movement that doesn't necessarily look like "scrolling" is not limited to scroll-conservatively. E.g., scroll-margin comes to mind. > > This is by popular demand; you can find my > > questions about this and answers by others a year or two ago in the > > archives. E.g., scroll-conservatively affects commands such as > > goto-char, even if you move far away in the buffer. > > Do you mean the thread starting here: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-06/msg01011.html and > continued in bug#6631? That one, but also others. For a recent example, see http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13055 (although that is about scroll-margin, not scroll-conservatively). > >> But again, as a user, I'd expect this only if what I'm doing > >> recognizably involves scrolling, which Info-up does not, from the user's > >> point of view. > > > > Alas, other users' expectations are different. > > I didn't see anything to that effect in the thread cited above; did I > miss it or were such expectations expressed elsewhere? Again, I'd be > quite surprised if anyone really expects and prefers the current effect > of scroll-conservatively on Info-up. My witnesses are twofold: . No one spoke about this except Juanma, and no one said that scroll-conservatively _must_ be confined to scroll commands. . Since those changes were made, 2.5 years ago, I heard _zero_ complaints about this behavior; you are the first one. By contrast, before that, when Emacs would sometimes recenter even when scroll-conservatively was set to a huge number, there were quite a few complaints and bug reports about that. (I myself don't use this option, so Emacs always re-centers for me.) > *** lisp/info.el 2013-02-01 16:46:46 +0000 > --- lisp/info.el 2013-02-13 13:25:51 +0000 > *************** > *** 2246,2252 **** > nil t)) > (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) > (goto-char p) > ! (Info-restore-point Info-history))))) > > (defun Info-history-back () > "Go back in the history to the last node visited." > --- 2246,2255 ---- > nil t)) > (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) > (goto-char p) > ! (Info-restore-point Info-history)))) > ! ;; If scroll-conservatively is non-zero, display as much of the > ! ;; superior node above the target line as possible (bug#13690). > ! (recenter)) I don't mind, but let's hear from others. In any case, I think this re-centering should be conditioned on: . scroll-conservatively being less than 100 (people who set it to large values don't want Emacs to recenter, ever) . scroll-conservatively being non-nil . perhaps also scroll-margin being zero, because otherwise you get several lines of context before point From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 13 14:03:04 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2013 19:03:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54535 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5hbh-0007PC-Q5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:03:02 -0500 Received: from mail-lb0-f175.google.com ([209.85.217.175]:44120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5hbf-0007P4-4q for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:02:59 -0500 Received: by mail-lb0-f175.google.com with SMTP id n3so1196468lbo.34 for <13690@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:02:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=W3zT+IVV0HkCaXTNCdO9ytTJtKW+aWuRoUtCuLwo+LE=; b=pAqzBJECxIDl9v82Nb73MBgp4LUmE4BViTT/6p5CEHHNxXHKkAZIUvmPL+kVP7msH6 YxZZzm523dPTwdDm9SQeLOMWs3S0milCAnaxrxbnBwZzg9LXC7mlPDXqeWf4eUjH+uyK bOY+KOPNY/cqNwwVj1Cx3nQbYel/dIw0mLPXxk99q41Ke6uvwey86pKJ8tcBnHeBiTtZ 0IydNjG9i67G5hHBDcddgF/khN8XNYRO4BIYgOkzPPcQX4Y65UPQw4lHbxDNWPdBTbxL 9zZqJajHde7QLasMYtuG7ADjF+jvJuhsW5vBEbhwGZ5FAU39lHfs6125iMYsDcOzX1yi Q5AA== X-Received: by 10.112.16.110 with SMTP id f14mr9186426lbd.126.1360782145358; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from SOL ([178.252.98.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gm20sm10519802lab.7.2013.02.13.11.02.23 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:02:23 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Gutov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:02:13 +0400 In-Reply-To: <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:41:13 +0200") Message-ID: <87pq04hway.fsf@yandex.ru> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: Stephen Berman , 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Hi Eli, Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > This is by popular demand; you can find my >> > questions about this and answers by others a year or two ago in the >> > archives. E.g., scroll-conservatively affects commands such as >> > goto-char, even if you move far away in the buffer. >> >> Do you mean the thread starting here: >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-06/msg01011.html and >> continued in bug#6631? > > That one, but also others. For a recent example, see > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13055 (although that is > about scroll-margin, not scroll-conservatively). > >> >> But again, as a user, I'd expect this only if what I'm doing >> >> recognizably involves scrolling, which Info-up does not, from the user's >> >> point of view. >> > >> > Alas, other users' expectations are different. >> >> I didn't see anything to that effect in the thread cited above; did I >> miss it or were such expectations expressed elsewhere? Again, I'd be >> quite surprised if anyone really expects and prefers the current effect >> of scroll-conservatively on Info-up. > > My witnesses are twofold: > > . No one spoke about this except Juanma, and no one said that > scroll-conservatively _must_ be confined to scroll commands. If I'm reading this right, the thread from 2010-06 has 8 messages and 5 participants. There is no way it can be representative of Emacs users in general. > . Since those changes were made, 2.5 years ago, I heard _zero_ > complaints about this behavior; you are the first one. By I don't think that's true anymore. You should at least remember the bug I posted relatively recently: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13133 > contrast, before that, when Emacs would sometimes recenter even > when scroll-conservatively was set to a huge number, there were > quite a few complaints and bug reports about that. Like I explained in the bug above, the current behavior creates problems in edge cases. So a users can choose the values that "work almost right, but not exactly". Naturally, many people might be okay with that. --Dmitry From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 13 16:48:26 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2013 21:48:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5kBl-0002qF-LH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:48:25 -0500 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:54902) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5kBi-0002q5-Dm for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:48:23 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MI600400HTGOP00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:47:47 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MI6004N4HVNFQ60@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:47:47 +0200 (IST) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:48:02 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up In-reply-to: <87pq04hway.fsf@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Dmitry Gutov Message-id: <83d2w351il.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> <87pq04hway.fsf@yandex.ru> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) > From: Dmitry Gutov > Cc: Stephen Berman , 13690@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:02:13 +0400 > > > . Since those changes were made, 2.5 years ago, I heard _zero_ > > complaints about this behavior; you are the first one. By > > I don't think that's true anymore. You should at least remember the bug > I posted relatively recently: > > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13133 OK, so he is the 2nd one since June 2010. How does that change the picture? > Like I explained in the bug above, the current behavior creates problems > in edge cases. So a users can choose the values that "work almost right, > but not exactly". Every behavior can be problematic in some edge cases. Anyway, I'm not part to this argument. I don't customize scroll-conservatively (or any other of the scroll-* options). I just coded it like users who complained wanted. Judging by the silence since then, I'd say the change was mostly right. But if I'm wrong, someone else can come up and code something different. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 13 18:19:12 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2013 23:19:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5lbc-0005nO-99 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:19:12 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:62227) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5lbZ-0005nF-6X for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:19:11 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.28]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MJYft-1U4NcH0NFD-0038wN for <13690@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:18:34 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 13 Feb 2013 23:18:33 -0000 Received: from i59F57718.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.119.24] by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 14 Feb 2013 00:18:33 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+EoXVffOKEbWxIgcgW9znZQ7+hKW20i8lhTz+ojA Pdym95G9Rn7JoL From: Stephen Berman To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:18:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:41:13 +0200") Message-ID: <871ucj7qgp.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:41:13 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stephen Berman >> Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:36:58 +0100 >> >> > scroll-conservatively affects _any_ movement within a buffer, not just >> > to scrolling commands. >> >> I think this should be made clear in the documentation. In the Emacs >> Lisp manual, scroll-conservatively is only mentioned in the context of >> textual scrolling and there's no indication that it has wider scope. >> The variable's doc string doesn't say it only affects movement by >> scrolling, but given its name and the manual discussion, this is a >> plausible assumption, so its scope should also be made clear here. A >> less misleading name would also help, e.g. restore-point-conservatively. > > A name change is out of question at this point, I think, as this > option is very old. As for documentation, feel free to send patches > that clarify this. > > Note that the applicability of scroll-* options to movement that > doesn't necessarily look like "scrolling" is not limited to > scroll-conservatively. E.g., scroll-margin comes to mind. I don't feel confident I understand the intended behavior of these options well enough to formulate satisfactory doc. But I'll think about it some more and maybe make an attempt, which could then be refined. >> *** lisp/info.el 2013-02-01 16:46:46 +0000 >> --- lisp/info.el 2013-02-13 13:25:51 +0000 >> *************** >> *** 2246,2252 **** >> nil t)) >> (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) >> (goto-char p) >> ! (Info-restore-point Info-history))))) >> >> (defun Info-history-back () >> "Go back in the history to the last node visited." >> --- 2246,2255 ---- >> nil t)) >> (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) >> (goto-char p) >> ! (Info-restore-point Info-history)))) >> ! ;; If scroll-conservatively is non-zero, display as much of the >> ! ;; superior node above the target line as possible (bug#13690). >> ! (recenter)) > > I don't mind, but let's hear from others. In any case, I think this > re-centering should be conditioned on: > > . scroll-conservatively being less than 100 (people who set it to > large values don't want Emacs to recenter, ever) This is a good condition, since it effectively does the job of an option to trigger recentering (but according to the doc string, the condition should be less than 101). That way both those who never want recentering, even with Info-up, and those who do are served. Thanks for the suggestion. > . scroll-conservatively being non-nil I think you mean non-zero, since only integer values are admissible. But when scroll-conservatively is zero, recentering happens anyway, so I don't see the point of adding this condition. Or is there a problem is if recentering happens twice (once directly from the display engine and once by explicitly calling recenter)? I don't notice any problem. > . perhaps also scroll-margin being zero, because otherwise you get > several lines of context before point I tested scroll-margin and found no difference in the behavior of Info-up whether it is zero or non-zero; do you see something different? If not, then perhaps the following patch will make everyone happy. 2013-02-13 Stephen Berman * info.el (Info-up): If scroll-conservatively is less than 101, display as much of the superior node above the target line as possible. (Bug#13690) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Info-up patch === modified file 'lisp/info.el' *** lisp/info.el 2013-02-01 16:46:46 +0000 --- lisp/info.el 2013-02-13 23:13:49 +0000 *************** *** 2246,2252 **** nil t)) (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) (goto-char p) ! (Info-restore-point Info-history))))) (defun Info-history-back () "Go back in the history to the last node visited." --- 2246,2256 ---- nil t)) (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) (goto-char p) ! (Info-restore-point Info-history)))) ! ;; If scroll-conservatively is less than 101, display as much of the ! ;; superior node above the target line as possible (bug#13690). ! (when (< scroll-conservatively 101) ! (recenter))) (defun Info-history-back () "Go back in the history to the last node visited." --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 13 20:52:03 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2013 01:52:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54852 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5nzX-0001pb-He for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:52:03 -0500 Received: from mail-la0-f51.google.com ([209.85.215.51]:54197) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5nzV-0001p8-Al for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:52:02 -0500 Received: by mail-la0-f51.google.com with SMTP id fo13so1776288lab.24 for <13690@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:51:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0SHJkEJzwEiChtLZecrHx8zNDKX4m7EIRT1i7rrbC54=; b=CUwlidXsxDDwuuP8ow4BitTnbf0HmzQ/LOEeEad+Ii8tfFYrMA5nRrKJkPJ6XzrC8l TOLpoQgdcGTakXHh2yzPrEk1UVZ/exVpbeL+Y/DSyCre1h+nQ05303BsA9ETMGq6yPlI vy68wE1/FPawUWQfKiFL9cVtsCbbVpv1Nsg5DCPQNAL9MzVnOeqsjZKX/chVMK74TD54 YV/XGv5gJFoYLU7gZU3s33jOxDI0EahpSoxmW7CP2ur4hFoyaFKgxDt/UCP4nM3l1x5T haQMRAxm0BwPaKAIyn3SWqCPfa959nuGCKArKNJusRlISd/aPZheAjdvRuQsCa6nH4yx ocSA== X-Received: by 10.112.42.103 with SMTP id n7mr9419392lbl.52.1360806685853; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([178.252.98.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gm20sm10941347lab.7.2013.02.13.17.51.23 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:51:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <511C431D.4090807@yandex.ru> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:51:25 +0400 From: Dmitry Gutov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> <87pq04hway.fsf@yandex.ru> <83d2w351il.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83d2w351il.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On 14.02.2013 1:48, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> Cc: Stephen Berman , 13690@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:02:13 +0400 >> >>> . Since those changes were made, 2.5 years ago, I heard _zero_ >>> complaints about this behavior; you are the first one. By >> >> I don't think that's true anymore. You should at least remember the bug >> I posted relatively recently: >> >> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13133 > > OK, so he is the 2nd one since June 2010. How does that change the > picture? Somewhat. It drastically lowers the odds of each of us being random crackpots. Validates the point of view, or whatever. And since 5 is on the same order of magnitude as 2, the new opinion is statistically relevant. >> Like I explained in the bug above, the current behavior creates problems >> in edge cases. So a users can choose the values that "work almost right, >> but not exactly". > > Every behavior can be problematic in some edge cases. > > Anyway, I'm not part to this argument. I don't customize > scroll-conservatively (or any other of the scroll-* options). I just > coded it like users who complained wanted. Judging by the silence > since then, I'd say the change was mostly right. But if I'm wrong, > someone else can come up and code something different. I can understand if you don't want to work on it anymore. If the stance on the issue has changed from "nobody wants that" to "patches welcome", I'm good, for now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 14 00:13:20 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2013 05:13:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54892 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5r8K-0008R0-Bu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:13:20 -0500 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:48425) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5r8H-0008Qq-Ok for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:13:19 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MI700E0025E2Q00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:12:24 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MI700DE62GMOV80@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:12:22 +0200 (IST) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:12:38 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up In-reply-to: <871ucj7qgp.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Stephen Berman Message-id: <83621v4gxl.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> <871ucj7qgp.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) > From: Stephen Berman > Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:18:30 +0100 > > > . scroll-conservatively being non-nil > > I think you mean non-zero, since only integer values are admissible. > But when scroll-conservatively is zero, recentering happens anyway, so I > don't see the point of adding this condition. Or is there a problem is > if recentering happens twice (once directly from the display engine and > once by explicitly calling recenter)? I don't notice any problem. Why recenter twice? It's a waste of cycles. > > . perhaps also scroll-margin being zero, because otherwise you get > > several lines of context before point > > I tested scroll-margin and found no difference in the behavior of Info-up > whether it is zero or non-zero; do you see something different? Do you have the latest trunk? If so, you should see a difference: when scroll-margin is N, typing 'u' puts the line with cursor N+1 lines from the top. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 14 00:16:47 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2013 05:16:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54897 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5rBe-00006f-R2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:16:47 -0500 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:43521) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5rBd-00006X-0h for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:16:45 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MI7006002AVJO00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:16:08 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MI7006L52MWE770@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:16:08 +0200 (IST) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:16:24 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up In-reply-to: <511C431D.4090807@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Dmitry Gutov Message-id: <834nhf4grb.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> <87pq04hway.fsf@yandex.ru> <83d2w351il.fsf@gnu.org> <511C431D.4090807@yandex.ru> X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) > Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:51:25 +0400 > From: Dmitry Gutov > CC: stephen.berman@gmx.net, 13690@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13133 > > > > OK, so he is the 2nd one since June 2010. How does that change the > > picture? > > Somewhat. It drastically lowers the odds of each of us being random > crackpots. I never said any of you were random crackpots. I'm saying that my interpretation of the general lack of complaints is that the behavior is fine with most users. > If the stance on the issue has changed from "nobody wants that" to > "patches welcome", I'm good, for now. It's "nobody wants that" _and_ "patches welcome if they introduce optional behavior". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 14 06:33:07 2013 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2013 11:33:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55237 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5x3r-0007Lh-7k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:33:07 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:49787) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U5x3o-0007LU-8k for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:33:05 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.12]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LnVZY-1UXsDU1CQg-00hd3P for <13690@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:32:26 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 14 Feb 2013 11:32:25 -0000 Received: from i59F55C2E.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.92.46] by mail.gmx.net (mp012) with SMTP; 14 Feb 2013 12:32:25 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19OnIQqfH5O6EU6MAtZ1h6Wp6rHYyP6Eft3aYz5gB C0hh+xeMurietv From: Stephen Berman To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> <871ucj7qgp.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83621v4gxl.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:32:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83621v4gxl.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:12:38 +0200") Message-ID: <87sj4zm8qg.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:12:38 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stephen Berman >> Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:18:30 +0100 >> >> > . scroll-conservatively being non-nil >> >> I think you mean non-zero, since only integer values are admissible. >> But when scroll-conservatively is zero, recentering happens anyway, so I >> don't see the point of adding this condition. Or is there a problem is >> if recentering happens twice (once directly from the display engine and >> once by explicitly calling recenter)? I don't notice any problem. > > Why recenter twice? It's a waste of cycles. Ok. >> > . perhaps also scroll-margin being zero, because otherwise you get >> > several lines of context before point >> >> I tested scroll-margin and found no difference in the behavior of Info-up >> whether it is zero or non-zero; do you see something different? > > Do you have the latest trunk? If so, you should see a difference: > when scroll-margin is N, typing 'u' puts the line with cursor N+1 > lines from the top. Ah, I just updated and now see it (my previous build was a couple of days too old). However, I would prefer for Info-up to recenter even if scroll-margin is non-zero. When using C-p or C-n, I can well imagine wanting the display to start scrolling before point reaches the top or bottom of the window, i.e., I might want to set scroll-margin to a non-zero value. But when I type `u' in Info, I really want to see as much of the superior node as possible, not just one or two lines above the target line. If scroll-margin obeyed SCROLL_LIMIT like scroll-conservatively does (or perhaps a different limit just for scroll-margin), this would allow more flexibility. But in default of that, and not wanting to complicate things with another user option (at least until someone screams bloody murder), I would rather omit the scroll-margin check for now. 2014-02-13 Stephen Berman * info.el (Info-up): If scroll-conservatively is non-zero and less than 101, display as much of the superior node above the target line as possible. (Bug#13690) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Info-up patch === modified file 'lisp/info.el' *** lisp/info.el 2013-02-14 09:15:55 +0000 --- lisp/info.el 2013-02-14 11:27:50 +0000 *************** *** 2246,2252 **** nil t)) (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) (goto-char p) ! (Info-restore-point Info-history))))) (defun Info-history-back () "Go back in the history to the last node visited." --- 2246,2257 ---- nil t)) (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2))) (goto-char p) ! (Info-restore-point Info-history)))) ! ;; If scroll-conservatively is non-zerop and less than 101, display ! ;; as much of the superior node above the target line as possible ! ;; (bug#13690). ! (when (and (> scroll-conservatively 0) (< scroll-conservatively 101)) ! (recenter))) (defun Info-history-back () "Go back in the history to the last node visited." --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 25 07:32:10 2020 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2020 11:32:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60550 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAXBS-0003fU-Bm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:32:10 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40490) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAXBQ-0003Yz-JZ for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:32:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=MBPIltvIjrWkQTvOL9SKbFhvm3Ltr273+SCA+m31lCo=; b=Ri5YwJLaDC8/UTLgLs+LkjqufY 7mvx5tTgmQkolIttoMsk1+AOV5MheQ3uRozoWCSzX2FtR2PfKucjNuBDQznK2sJ/Sl7j/hEn15O1X PIvckFCpg2VqMbr/BCltK42GS28kcYjeFPfAgl7JxE7hBSbS7MPFIr+hZ52IopTZlF24=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kAXBG-0004vl-NL; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 13:32:02 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stephen Berman Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> <871ucj7qgp.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83621v4gxl.fsf@gnu.org> <87sj4zm8qg.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> X-Now-Playing: Coil's _The Sound Of Musick_: "Sara Dale's Sensual Massage 6" Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 13:31:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87sj4zm8qg.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> (Stephen Berman's message of "Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:32:23 +0100") Message-ID: <87y2m39d1u.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stephen Berman writes: > 2014-02-13 Stephen Berman > > * info.el (Info-up): If scroll-conservatively is non-zero and > less than 101, display as much of the superior node above the > target line as [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stephen Berman writes: > 2014-02-13 Stephen Berman > > * info.el (Info-up): If scroll-conservatively is non-zero and > less than 101, display as much of the superior node above the > target line as possible. (Bug#13690) I think that makes sense to me, even if I don't use scroll-conservatively myself, and Eli seemed to indicate that he was OK with it, so I've now pushed your patch to Emacs 28. If anybody objects, feel free to revert. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 25 07:32:15 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2020 11:32:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60553 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAXBX-0003k6-LT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:32:15 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40506) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAXBV-0003eC-VV for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 07:32:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=1V7CfqH1Z3OG6eOQrkoYEA7pdqCB7ke7iAl1ApWPEOQ=; b=gkRGSMydZ7AmpKPFF93rmT69UR 0YFhcp27zduM/q8xVlF7zcF9aXPSX+LcSorpNrMZXwL9LMeSeYGi8qSf2ITGh2VU+uYFl9SaPCapl vRk7ItweUnY35DzQmjMSqpW/dSwYKMVJpQ3lq/Twl6sDaqWZWkV4wiO+69PC+Ygqlscc=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kAXBO-0004vw-6R for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 13:32:08 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 13:32:04 +0200 Message-Id: <87wo1n9d1n.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #13690 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 13690 fixed close 13690 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 13690 fixed close 13690 28.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 25 14:02:34 2020 Received: (at 13690) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2020 18:02:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35973 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAdHG-0003MD-Lm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 14:02:34 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:35103) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kAdHF-0003M2-J1 for 13690@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 14:02:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1598378548; bh=4HRe39XuB1XUId5aABgTpJz6Kb5JI8DsTQnajXpdQ1k=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=bJrKsIWdsZ5PfhmfbTslQYh+HDi1Fo/BgtYydhRRXGPW+mjl2YqFa+fL/MigPGQX4 B/wM4svl7qqh6p3+F/Kd0fm6S2dzbu4eOQv2bOKIPHbUJxX4j8sw8mfnq9OWECIZr3 nxoxMImQdwSIFH4tG0FmI8ou73PJshU0K0SBHBa4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from strobe-jhalfs ([188.109.196.40]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MN5eR-1jrazO3Hfh-00J0hk; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 20:02:27 +0200 From: Stephen Berman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> <871ucj7qgp.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83621v4gxl.fsf@gnu.org> <87sj4zm8qg.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <87y2m39d1u.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 20:02:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87y2m39d1u.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 25 Aug 2020 13:31:57 +0200") Message-ID: <878se2li30.fsf@gmx.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:/pn6zMZK866sViGzs1edG7K/5hXARNz7xWeqAuYgPhkY5c0ygb2 3o+ez/r0kIhvVPROAfkBxnSiG9g1Wm7lAsH/d3jeD7vaBMMXQGdcRnFbkqGoooKKZDkHsgg AOUOqQPlJtkr2lFFFPWTCymEtdVi6UFpAsdK4NmdTFICEIMAmeGezjxMNnHzY2LmCWeSA5M GBjfMTU06DTf5F5rO94bQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:3+kRuBH4mFQ=:s2nYiRBA1LIFaCZ9ylnExK FQ8KReizi45Et8MwgLDDJQad7B2XAGqQShJnz/l+g+Wue/nBe7cdi5zHWXimiNnRrLUv9tPAk oL/22c4zdEC0JIuuqx21nr5ZdAyYkJ1tX6ZQERJr9WA0CcS1FdkpNoh91snKJOH6be/iyKYZo 9h1v+fiIJQQ7j6GS91xCPy1uIQ4FUoT7zyDuKUwN9nGuJqv2FXUIkX2JBWKAHg1zjwqulFcBk EoIWm9THDXMoUVSL6tzal3pMYGNQ+owf+gMunRbMr3dxLrB8Zq6tEzpucO+KLmiRB7pgVwDqP qirqyGuMaRWskQ0H9jaLsRYTQIPUdmM4xRBjwm3PN6kYZqiKjTb+jk+U1hxIXLg7q3v+/Hlq9 nM975wyjJR/WFMpnR6VN3ts4LZp5EmVQD9Apo+HC2zGHOJtmWcIC964kUGi0LyNqxA6olije1 B+oFjfOwz0pwG/mrxWwYH7z0Bgtt2UrJXJxMerV7GSyLyEadzWodCU0E7jdaJU/o7fghP/ENl LkM1DoUqmA/BhPYlS6Fe9lwhnSZes/W10JTYOs8v0FzdMUVKMTjAreEw9xnF8B+K5+lNRq5c7 wzdMuMaro2LbHyBfSOYIJ9DBOcQdTJsVnT0orFHm03pPmhjIKHjiQ1AWrY2IkcnypshJ6RuD1 chUcC03dYle6U68Qnz8F4QtPkuVuF20R3wKleHKuFQwAdKelkarHMNi/PMYTkVOB4HuJHdypn N/x0TOet5L832yKGU0TBayGqC49G8bv+5SB++hEaLdrpbyGXQctNREI1ow5c3rqlPzWbYYGGA yS0uZcPkRCfF8976RejXx/MM9Vjg5P4T3kF2HbAIT8KVycsKm+jr65I3rgOQMaYSqa3A09/Te h7osynMK3NpbqZdBVMIkAHKAY68hA3ltrZ+p4ySjJ7ucl/Kn5LEyfxGbYfK6qQgoxGU42A1T9 FIZTYg55pol2wKSW7KrVGqi+wKnA7oxKYwipcLi5rtHfxx82UzSaJyuOCpfgystYmNdE7v4uA wZfDVrpVk14U4hrZ7SCRsY9k4csaMIO4GD2XkhBcHQSayeb26UPa405BFUbRLHPSzEJ9Bv0ND +6hCtyJZgFOTzTtUAicuSPad/uzc+1KoJMRorxlhri+/nXLPXgAQqHYakekJ8+OMD8SFLYIWu k67qeaYiDECZdVjVaFUwCQdhkC8R5I4/7krXJkjDTtIqI8gDSXTAgp59qIGlS/MXdbcawCOTJ G9p79aebI7VtXNhEqZ/LP4SYyB/ST/Lmm0cmaVg== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13690 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 13690@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 13:31:57 +0200 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Stephen Berman writes: > >> 2014-02-13 Stephen Berman >> >> * info.el (Info-up): If scroll-conservatively is non-zero and >> less than 101, display as much of the superior node above the >> target line as possible. (Bug#13690) > > I think that makes sense to me, even if I don't use > scroll-conservatively myself, and Eli seemed to indicate that he was OK > with it, so I've now pushed your patch to Emacs 28. Thanks (also for the more idiomatic formulation). Steve Berman From unknown Mon Jun 23 02:21:24 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:24:13 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator