GNU bug report logs - #13583
24.3.50; Error when activating auto-revert-mode

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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Wolfgang Jenkner'" <wjenkner <at> inode.at>, "'Dani Moncayo'" <dmoncayo <at> gmail.com>, "'Stefan Monnier'" <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Cc: 13583 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#13583: 24.3.50; Error when activating auto-revert-mode
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:12:40 -0800

WJ> I do this and otherwise pretend that "customize" doesn't exist
WJ> (of course, themes are based on it but they shouldn't ;-)

SM> It should be possible to have (setq auto-revert-use-notify 
SM> nil) in your .emacs and not use Custom.
SM> 
SM>   Stefan "who also uses Custom only for face settings"

[Just two examples - other Emacs developers have admitted to much the same.]

While there is perhaps room for improvement also for Lisp users of custom* code,
the sad truth is that interactive Customize, which is what we advertize for
general users, gets left behind in the dust.

But it is there that real improvement is sorely needed.

With so many Emacs developers not even using Customize interactively for their
own use, interactive Customize is essentially abandoned in terms of development.

Yidong and others have fixed some bugs and tweaked cosmetically around some of
the edges, but otherwise the UI code has hardly been touched since its
inception.  Certainly there has been no improvement in the area being discussed
here.

The real shame is that because of its lacks (and its bad reputation resulting
from those lacks and from its less-than-appealing UI) many novice users also
skip using Customize interactively.  And they, above all, should not.

Too often they do so from the mistaken notion that Customize is just for sissies
and that somehow using a bit of Lisp in their init files makes them more
Programmer and less Luser.

Unfortunately, that way they often miss out on the real power of custom*,
including type-checking and :set forms, because they do not sufficiently
understand what Lisp code to use.  `setq' on its own certainly does not cut the
mustard, but it is common to see users rely on it.

The best thing that could happen - for users, IMO, is for Emacs developers to
stop, themselves, using "Custom only for face settings" etc., and thus confront
the deficiencies of the UI directly.  Turn your frustration with it into
something constructive - for all users.

With that, there might be some hope that users would sooner or later get the
Customize improvements they deserve.

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