From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 21 19:55:14 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2013 00:55:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43788 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxS8v-0004Yr-J6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:55:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50141) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxS8t-0004Yk-8v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:55:12 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxS7n-00033P-JH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:54:04 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, T_DKIM_INVALID, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:60133) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxS7n-00033F-Fq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:54:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33257) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxS7l-0002x8-U7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:54:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxS7k-00032W-EJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:54:01 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f53.google.com ([209.85.220.53]:35642) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxS7k-00032S-7l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:54:00 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id hz1so3685991pad.12 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:53:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:organization:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5bsSJKSXAoVlE0YqoXqC3mhzKN3TgcKg9uqKo4t/QcI=; b=FIA1nv8/ELTFeIAPuzqKszimM1qpXd9rcis71wo9ugC1Xk9Qx7RXxS/x2M2V64gDi7 63e3dq986xKld4YJzI25uqFv8Ln/FnCd0Sk3U8gMaowuVKVJKNg2pZIh6UyyzV2vjGHn e1CNTX2OVhQGm9uT1AmDqrExogXViEqdwkFDTQLywspm/s8WV0H483fqly9FzQqBIUVr vc8b2AIc12odC8hHICJ62iRfX+MNq9+/IVJAsTumL1uobVTPW7BDA+dHS9YrIrgEha1m 370+2gcdFopyildtFCnFgo71NqADgB/MWDw4lckD+GQv81swqFc4r2vyAivP1pYtvz66 LMcw== X-Received: by 10.66.81.198 with SMTP id c6mr51585839pay.50.1358816039407; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([124.117.7.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rv8sm9591095pbc.27.2013.01.21.16.53.56 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:53:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:53:54 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: `sort-lines' on the empty region Message-Id: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) The current behavior of `sort-lines' on the empty region is to do nothing. I often find that I want to sort whole buffers at the time, and I expect `sort-lines' to do just that, before remembering I have to mark the whole buffer first. Wouldn't it be convenient to change the behavior of `sort-lines' so that it sorts the whole buffer if no region is marked? Or is this inconsistent with how other region-operating functions works? See: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-01/msg00492.html -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 21 22:20:21 2013 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2013 03:20:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43837 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxUPN-0007xG-L1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:20:21 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:38839) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxUPM-0007xA-04 for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:20:20 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxUOG-0007zl-F8; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:19:12 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Xue Fuqiao Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> X-Spook: event security Ansar al-Islam George W. Bush Rubin passwd X-Ran: lZd92RvWR0GBgkJQcM3&"$ (Xue Fuqiao's message of "Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:53:54 +0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) Please wait a week or so before reposting something from one Emacs list on another, to allow time for people to reply. Xue Fuqiao wrote: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-01/msg00492.html See the very first reply, posted before this report. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 21 22:45:43 2013 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2013 03:45:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43844 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxUnv-00007a-LT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:45:43 -0500 Received: from mail-da0-f50.google.com ([209.85.210.50]:48849) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxUnk-00007E-RR for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:45:41 -0500 Received: by mail-da0-f50.google.com with SMTP id h15so3021150dan.9 for <13521@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:44:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G3psoezdn3hcL/g/OT0mIMYIGygfhdpCPlvfR0yEvVI=; b=GAIZb54XgH2Lk/sp2nDPUhYjbYa10oVSwx9lVHMijMOUNGnsW7WnEM9MRbrEJhRIIy HGrqAYY5GGyLQIUiidumDK6uU2RykSlFBdkrxdeT72bcyZUY5IIpHGgL67LRhy0p1ZJw H0i5scr+ogcoC2GVSZkEf3afo6rgTUkyNaDtoGLvx8AvNxi8AqzQHKnLuYwHF4VGlUHH k6Ws0zZhaA7D3vyVp0KydI0BUozO2sUKlaTPM9XEUiC2+YA/wZBbHyLiGTL5UcsWfawg LEe67j7lyhpLe9HP6wrGJh2uHTbTrbxZxL8ZD5Umd0RLIpuD+uhhAWC3h39l93CZ7MeJ ning== X-Received: by 10.68.219.67 with SMTP id pm3mr35857196pbc.150.1358826265151; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([124.117.7.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id sg7sm9866132pbb.3.2013.01.21.19.44.22 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:44:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:44:20 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region Message-Id: <20130122114420.a6ba8484b6dfecbf4b05aa1d@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:19:12 -0500 Glenn Morris wrote: > Please wait a week or so before reposting something from one Emacs list > on another, to allow time for people to reply. Thanks for your advice. > Xue Fuqiao wrote: > > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-01/msg00492.html > > See the very first reply, posted before this report. I've seen this reply, but I'd like to report it as a wishlist. -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 21 22:45:44 2013 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2013 03:45:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43846 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxUnv-00007c-Vs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:45:44 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f48.google.com ([209.85.160.48]:47468) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxUnd-000075-PD for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:45:41 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id wy12so2338974pbc.7 for <13521@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:44:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G3psoezdn3hcL/g/OT0mIMYIGygfhdpCPlvfR0yEvVI=; b=k0ZYsvXt+gadqD5XITzlOdoe9R7+V/7C4gG12MyV/JiT3AmKNCHjoJ9PnQgYqkxaUn KDU8TiqLf/+bbxcMJe6i7oPR+iS48mhF5E+Uxtp4vPJYSmtlYLmyURFJ7ArgWlJZjBkJ WeJfOFgZNbqp8RTFSiXPgWKVO9LMPe3dvsG2CND7uz/fHPfnfG/lAH2/HAVl3MXyF9PK c8VEyRiGTBnPipUzEt2JzNSl4++s3Fxg9bTLkAf7iBfrag71jLBgzu7GzLrTAAqVilHC ePYYQEo1SBDM9oUxnZjFsfcYvlMLguqeQUeH0RLi970OiA2evYTq84z03fvcQkKO+3Ju A5Og== X-Received: by 10.66.76.198 with SMTP id m6mr52668787paw.32.1358826257667; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([124.117.7.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id tq4sm9852662pbc.50.2013.01.21.19.44.14 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:44:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:44:13 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region Message-Id: <20130122114413.182cffb1b537b8e9f9a2ca39@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:19:12 -0500 Glenn Morris wrote: > Please wait a week or so before reposting something from one Emacs list > on another, to allow time for people to reply. Thanks for your advice. > Xue Fuqiao wrote: > > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-01/msg00492.html > > See the very first reply, posted before this report. I've seen this reply, but I'd like to report it as a wishlist. -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 22 10:01:12 2013 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2013 15:01:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44807 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxfLY-0001c3-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:01:09 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:45975) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxfLV-0001bs-1k for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:01:06 -0500 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r0MExr4T029821; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:59:54 -0500 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 57325AE3F6; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:59:51 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Xue Fuqiao Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region Message-ID: References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:59:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> (Xue Fuqiao's message of "Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:53:54 +0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4469=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4469> : streams <892873> : uri <1324982> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > The current behavior of `sort-lines' on the empty region is to do > nothing. I think that's the right thing to do. > I often find that I want to sort whole buffers at the time, > and I expect `sort-lines' to do just that, before remembering I have > to mark the whole buffer first. That seems to be considering a different case: not the case of an empty region, but the case where there's no active region. Currently, this case signals an error, but I think I agree it makes sense to let it apply to the whole buffer if there is no active region. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 22 13:20:20 2013 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2013 18:20:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44908 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxiSJ-00073Z-8F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:20:19 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:60700) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TxiSG-00073M-Ld for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:20:17 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxiR7-00028R-G9; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:19:05 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> X-Spook: 9/11 digicash Medco COSCO Ruby Ridge Watergate PET InfoSec X-Ran: 'gC$mv|BFbw-jU~Mebp5|G8#lMrFTv+YZy$+<{;1dl861?R-6X6;5%7WsRXvv%1W8`r}4X X-Hue: blue X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:19:05 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:59:51 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: Xue Fuqiao , 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) Stefan Monnier wrote: > That seems to be considering a different case: not the case of an empty > region, but the case where there's no active region. > Currently, this case signals an error, but I think I agree it makes > sense to let it apply to the whole buffer if there is no active region. flush-lines, keep-lines instead operate on all lines after point. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 22 14:05:27 2013 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2013 19:05:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44989 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Txj9y-00088e-Uj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:05:27 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:53716) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Txj9w-00088U-T8 for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:05:26 -0500 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r0MJ3vZd026827; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:04:00 -0500 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 7E4E9AE3F6; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region Message-ID: References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:04:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:19:05 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4469=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4469> : streams <892958> : uri <1325160> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: Xue Fuqiao , 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) >> That seems to be considering a different case: not the case of an empty >> region, but the case where there's no active region. >> Currently, this case signals an error, but I think I agree it makes >> sense to let it apply to the whole buffer if there is no active region. > flush-lines, keep-lines instead operate on all lines after point. Yes, we have an inconsistency in this respect: some commands use "the whole buffer" and others use "everything after point". Whichever choice we make for sort-lines, it will be inconsistent with some of the existing commands ;-) I personally prefer the "whole buffer", but whoever makes the change gets to make the choice. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 20 21:18:43 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2020 01:18:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8vha-0003ya-KO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:18:42 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f171.google.com ([209.85.219.171]:39961) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8vhY-0003yG-Kk for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:18:41 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f171.google.com with SMTP id q3so185171ybp.7 for <13521@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:18:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5EOwuC7sYu39+6R6db3PJkN0PYLf3zc368mti4Iona4=; b=QziKd1+sS0GFWF87FhpT1an5oveFwSwVDwecW46404Q3LubrLwNz5BpjL24vZe6kBu udjjw1azwwWosdBk6vAEDu65hEokF/u8c7yzovsBkBQ8/DlxIun4/57ZESK3Utnu6tXg cojjPwucznF21/TrEnDsm7hJj1O9g8e5vD36+qpyLT+Zk8PJjnz2KkjTwtkQUeoJ8Ocm 9OJmpMnU11lsMdc2CSYnbTFodonG58aJ2cIl6ARkKmgwZVQtcg4sWbQsa/jjpFebubf4 5WadkeaCyGvl5e0lOhnZQkW9A4OUrXXUFJD14ZEmJXr82AOEr3DMC2eRYNKuda4hBWZE l4LQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532rgnDd4yobLOAIlU2v/qSWl6gL80GmvfKJH9/MelXrIJrJV8o+ vpeKCnI3VDoaDVeeoY5hNl4/UtooWf8zwRslRds= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxjDhATSvBEPiPT6Mn5mrxfq3t+5VqmPhqOWVdJWxJWFSBXiS2zRy27U8Fnzs7c6AnZDJRhsn9BLHj4lD3dK1I= X-Received: by 2002:a25:9843:: with SMTP id k3mr690040ybo.466.1597972715186; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:18:34 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:04:02 -0500") References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:18:34 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000000ccced05ad5904dc" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: Xue Fuqiao , Glenn Morris , 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --0000000000000ccced05ad5904dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" tags 13521 + patch thanks Stefan Monnier writes: >>> That seems to be considering a different case: not the case of an empty >>> region, but the case where there's no active region. >>> Currently, this case signals an error, but I think I agree it makes >>> sense to let it apply to the whole buffer if there is no active region. >> flush-lines, keep-lines instead operate on all lines after point. > > Yes, we have an inconsistency in this respect: some commands use "the > whole buffer" and others use "everything after point". Whichever choice > we make for sort-lines, it will be inconsistent with some of the > existing commands ;-) > > I personally prefer the "whole buffer", but whoever makes the change > gets to make the choice. The attached patch makes 'sort-lines' sort the entire buffer when there is no region. Any comments? 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21 Aug 2020 06:22:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44794 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k90Rx-0007aR-Re for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:22:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k90Rt-0007aA-Tx for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:22:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55366) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k90Ro-0007MY-1N; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:22:44 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4218 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k90Rl-0002WN-Nb; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:22:42 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:22:35 +0300 Message-Id: <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:18:34 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:18:34 -0700 > Cc: Xue Fuqiao , Glenn Morris , > 13521@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I personally prefer the "whole buffer", but whoever makes the change > > gets to make the choice. > > The attached patch makes 'sort-lines' sort the entire buffer when there > is no region. How frequently did you see a buffer in Emacs with no region in it? IME, it takes about 2 commands since buffer creation to have a region in it. So I predict users to be tripped by this feature quite a lot: they will think there's no region, invoke the command, and get some arbitrary region sorted. Requiring them to always provide the region avoids this pitfall, since the user is forced to make sure the region is where he or she wants it. And marking the whole buffer is just 2 key-presses away. So I think this change will annoy more than help. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 21 03:15:40 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2020 07:15:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44837 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91H1-0002dT-PO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:15:39 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f178.google.com ([209.85.219.178]:44870) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91Gz-0002dG-EG for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:15:38 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f178.google.com with SMTP id i10so531019ybt.11 for <13521@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:15:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8Tgqxf5GKWquARSqL3TWeRendG480gie9cmV6zZrcEA=; b=O3wCVUAbFZRjvaSpGFRGfP1diIxyramKbJyU3RpCLigByFhuqbmZxeCQjZxJ5cZ1Vd 3CNBeHOF4L62tDv1kb1+mUvBdJokhNSCPhb6rFbEwjJkIC37OkCowzkjBas34iZyxPg8 7ChnBVwFfWD4n5V2PN2qiNChF79zbbWJ0h3mQHHHf5ekfpzm4lPlMqain5C4zVjog2ls vxXPlh/cb4v1ganCZufogLy+yjJaVEp1mpbd+DA5rI3mw+hhIVkJn+s/DkybCOZtG7q4 aUJSCbR7sveer7xCdwLM7Hq7U60YDtBB6FqmnsOQ1H66SlE5OL+x3H+1ZzHN6lUuzXuc Cuhg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530rpUy+nKo9kT/G5cplLXXttfrswX5fPlDn+cV8r2U7tfG0Q7je 8Ty4BFLbWyzUwFPKzSX8+7d1Ax+j0L6BjQuEGic= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxUcVtIz0r5/Nl3EjJZ3nA4JcxIyh2sJJ06EMwyQOEQvpAJOLIRzvo3GAFiNIOQCNe4yOuiJCn8Iq0vYdNkVLk= X-Received: by 2002:a25:b290:: with SMTP id k16mr1882779ybj.389.1597994131829; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:15:31 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:15:31 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> The attached patch makes 'sort-lines' sort the entire buffer when there >> is no region. > > How frequently did you see a buffer in Emacs with no region in it? > IME, it takes about 2 commands since buffer creation to have a region > in it. So I predict users to be tripped by this feature quite a lot: > they will think there's no region, invoke the command, and get some > arbitrary region sorted. Requiring them to always provide the region > avoids this pitfall, since the user is forced to make sure the region > is where he or she wants it. And marking the whole buffer is just 2 > key-presses away. > > So I think this change will annoy more than help. Sorry, the correct terminology I should have used is "active region". This is as tested by `use-region-p'. Compare the test I introduce also to the one in `flush-lines', where I lifted it from. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 21 03:36:58 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2020 07:36:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44899 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91be-0005Rd-GW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:36:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91bc-0005RH-0L for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:36:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55947) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k91bW-0007OV-8N; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:36:50 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1079 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k91bU-0008Lo-Gd; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:36:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 10:36:42 +0300 Message-Id: <83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:15:31 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:15:31 -0700 > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, > 13521@debbugs.gnu.org > > > How frequently did you see a buffer in Emacs with no region in it? > > IME, it takes about 2 commands since buffer creation to have a region > > in it. So I predict users to be tripped by this feature quite a lot: > > they will think there's no region, invoke the command, and get some > > arbitrary region sorted. Requiring them to always provide the region > > avoids this pitfall, since the user is forced to make sure the region > > is where he or she wants it. And marking the whole buffer is just 2 > > key-presses away. > > > > So I think this change will annoy more than help. > > Sorry, the correct terminology I should have used is "active region". > This is as tested by `use-region-p'. Compare the test I introduce also > to the one in `flush-lines', where I lifted it from. So if the user has transient-mark-mode disabled (which is what I do), the command will always sort the entire buffer? Or did I misunderstand something? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 05 07:13:25 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2020 11:13:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41605 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEW8L-0003Kx-Fp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 07:13:25 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-f42.google.com ([209.85.208.42]:45130) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEW8K-0003Kl-7v for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 07:13:24 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-f42.google.com with SMTP id l17so8337538edq.12 for <13521@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 04:13:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DCGgUsx6wzGx525ELxk5cq7EedtyshQSxPKm4KfcDus=; b=Bj+z3uHAtCaV1Q5snohtSO9EnN8k3vRsNDGImaBQQmtYOnM3La6pnxCmFlQJOOjep1 tBtE9ERIK5fVZc7uyl5WonTAX4G/PLQzlzR13QWzFeu9mOcQp+Fp0EClqP4KVcszifjc 8G181hTaTtF3f1mfMWpSLxv3O+OAOXFGK4dQxJT/+iLaLxxT5hIXQoUJMAhUq0GrNylR y+VsCUUZQgG3gLSFwj7nXr9fptYi3MjrWx7pfkGjnVygkpR71HU/4uOj51yDGfJM4RxC 7LmE7BNlquaFMbnT0h60z0KFxva09NkTaM2msWSJtfF2F72N+MGVbNUD3WOnLKInZOjG vtfg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531dSPYqJuhvTpSmvfzW/KSlOnJ1MrvcfNkr27sY/FGO/eZOSLLk Ju7q5LkvNCDIN/xhArSJ54Ur3N/kAnOAYMzQsRc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyo9aZH6qV+O1SNMYJvQ2mcXSUdyYjW/k33pBW0DmadhbsOUy0FI4tqMF3Ib6u+3buMoVYk7kmlNClU+MjJHcQ= X-Received: by 2002:a50:d7ca:: with SMTP id m10mr2655256edj.259.1599304398456; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 04:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 11:13:17 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 21 Aug 2020 10:36:42 +0300") References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org> <83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 11:13:17 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > So if the user has transient-mark-mode disabled (which is what I do), > the command will always sort the entire buffer? Or did I > misunderstand something? I didn't consider that case, but you are correct. The behavior would be like that documented in `flush-lines': Interactively, in Transient Mark mode when the mark is active, operate on the contents of the region. Otherwise, operate from point to the end of (the accessible portion of) the buffer. I'm not sure the `flush-lines' behavior makes sense, though. It looks like you can't run it on a region without transient-mark-mode. So maybe we should fix that as well. (Note that `flush-lines' operates from point to point-max, but `sort-lines' is proposed here to operate on the entire buffer instead as per previous discussion in this bug.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 05 07:29:22 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2020 11:29:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41637 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEWNl-0003kE-Ov for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 07:29:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEWNj-0003k0-9s for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 07:29:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33206) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kEWNd-0000ry-Gn; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 07:29:13 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3122 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kEWNb-0007ag-9f; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 07:29:12 -0400 Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 14:29:03 +0300 Message-Id: <83imcspim8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 5 Sep 2020 11:13:17 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org> <83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 11:13:17 +0000 > Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > 13521@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > So if the user has transient-mark-mode disabled (which is what I do), > > the command will always sort the entire buffer? Or did I > > misunderstand something? > > I didn't consider that case, but you are correct. The behavior would be > like that documented in `flush-lines': > > Interactively, in Transient Mark mode when the mark is active, operate > on the contents of the region. Otherwise, operate from point to the > end of (the accessible portion of) the buffer. > > I'm not sure the `flush-lines' behavior makes sense, though. It looks > like you can't run it on a region without transient-mark-mode. So maybe > we should fix that as well. I think we should indeed fix flush-lines as well, yes. > (Note that `flush-lines' operates from point to point-max, but > `sort-lines' is proposed here to operate on the entire buffer instead as > per previous discussion in this bug.) I guess due to historical reasons? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 05 10:37:08 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2020 14:37:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43759 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEZJU-0007Ju-BA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 10:37:08 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:55566) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEZJS-0007JA-D2 for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 10:37:07 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 085Eb0lY004663; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 14:37:00 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=yRwaMmbd2gIRRknrNxPFkFIXsNXPy5mpnV5UK1daajo=; b=D5XzRK5A9oISOlyvwNeu72dPWX2F7vISF5HWyjb1PGZTGm1QfyPx6xEnBmr3lokoPI0k EoWyoCKOvJc15qKw87K6glG4hXNOg44u2Wds7/Xoz5FzSU1afftZ2gwJTZDmwS5B3E97 e9GlDPgj0CVb5T418xLgXU0JO/nwO6oxvZDQfd/1JX1i1irgR6phpepTUPcxlF24Je7g TeYynweyf28vbyMwzosLLErK+qjUivsANsPjHEBpIpnqgvrKwSCgzBeYFwn4n2ZHDuTe 1IYhtYYEK/RiMRddXYHtuhi1466ehbZji/02qVa7QfHo2x3Yd8cy0II0zwiEE6vcYAAi qg== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33c2mkh9yj-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 05 Sep 2020 14:37:00 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 085EZGhc127738; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 14:36:59 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33c20htt5j-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 05 Sep 2020 14:36:59 +0000 Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 085EavZj003420; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 14:36:58 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3aad96d8-2503-40e8-b684-8ed18a089083@default> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 07:36:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas Subject: RE: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <<20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com>> <> <> <> <> <<83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<83imcspim8.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83imcspim8.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5044.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9734 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2009050142 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9734 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2009050142 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > So if the user has transient-mark-mode disabled (which is what I do), > > > the command will always sort the entire buffer? Or did I > > > misunderstand something? > > > > I didn't consider that case, but you are correct. The behavior would b= e > > like that documented in `flush-lines': > > > > Interactively, in Transient Mark mode when the mark is active, oper= ate > > on the contents of the region. Otherwise, operate from point to th= e > > end of (the accessible portion of) the buffer. > > > > I'm not sure the `flush-lines' behavior makes sense, though. It looks > > like you can't run it on a region without transient-mark-mode. So mayb= e > > we should fix that as well. >=20 > I think we should indeed fix flush-lines as well, yes. >=20 > > (Note that `flush-lines' operates from point to point-max, but > > `sort-lines' is proposed here to operate on the entire buffer instead a= s > > per previous discussion in this bug.) >=20 > I guess due to historical reasons? Apologies for not following this thread and perhaps misunderstanding at this point. If `transient-mark-mode' is off then there is no notion of an "active region". There is just the region. I doubt that someone who has `transient-mark-mode' off would ever want commands such as `flush-lines' and `sort-lines' to act on the region. And if they did, I expect they'd just narrow to it. Anything that works on "the active region" is something that makes sense only when `transient-mark-mode' is on (IMHO). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 05 10:52:00 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2020 14:52:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43797 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEZXs-0001QS-9Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 10:52:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56224) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEZXq-0001QB-80 for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 10:51:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34972) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kEZXk-00072C-Fe; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 10:51:52 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3736 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kEZXj-00079J-2B; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 10:51:51 -0400 Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 17:51:43 +0300 Message-Id: <83a6y4p98g.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <3aad96d8-2503-40e8-b684-8ed18a089083@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 5 Sep 2020 07:36:55 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <<20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com>> <> <> <> <> <<83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org>> <> <<83imcspim8.fsf@gnu.org>> <3aad96d8-2503-40e8-b684-8ed18a089083@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 07:36:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > 13521@debbugs.gnu.org > > I doubt that someone who has `transient-mark-mode' off > would ever want commands such as `flush-lines' and > `sort-lines' to act on the region. And if they did, I > expect they'd just narrow to it. Please don't doubt, and please don't impose unnecessary commands on users who have transient-mark-mode off. > Anything that works on "the active region" is something > that makes sense only when `transient-mark-mode' is on > (IMHO). The important point here is that sort-lines worked on the region, even if inactive, before the proposed changes, so restricting it now only to active regions would be a backward-incompatible change of behavior. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 05 11:25:10 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2020 15:25:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43863 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEa3y-0004TJ-Dp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:25:10 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:54644) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEa3w-0004T1-EC for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:25:08 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 085FOlXB078403; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 15:25:02 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=jDm1e5/DV5JLWnSPrjm1q1JOqTl/s6yxJdfEBKqIFDw=; b=v6NupHPR9TRsjDnHXvGPBvBKR8I6vJ7epYD3J/tuhYNPFpExMETf7CSKvZKLViG0bNdJ x1FOx+uB2YvPfD6DLKdcC+yGX4XjsW1rMIGTwzHyHLeK+28Q0JWsCMaNwb6kn4qr4Buj aQH/6m+0QPM9IWNPXyFQKAGfik8m/iqy8Jh09QImkyg4tTA5o1rqitFsH5QzpxIXJyEa gr8qD7orzIzS7PCRmJuWXq48ZDlkIvpCjpsEgfIrb6zADlsAnasD1lSiGArfqQfQbK3k CiS2N0aH8uTLWOIRjCyZLrPMTHEQi3VLr96XlpUhhphRRhC91neRWkg1HKlLFJh1lt4B rQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33c2mkhccc-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 05 Sep 2020 15:25:02 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 085FG1l6116005; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 15:23:01 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33bysqu5te-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 05 Sep 2020 15:23:01 +0000 Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 085FMxZV018615; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 15:23:00 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7cfc062e-05b2-43f1-8714-19ebd955b88c@default> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 08:22:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <<<20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com>>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<<83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<>> <<<83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<>> <<<83imcspim8.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<3aad96d8-2503-40e8-b684-8ed18a089083@default>> <<83a6y4p98g.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<83a6y4p98g.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5044.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9735 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2009050148 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9735 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2009050149 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > I doubt that someone who has `transient-mark-mode' off > > would ever want commands such as `flush-lines' and > > `sort-lines' to act on the region. And if they did, I > > expect they'd just narrow to it. >=20 > Please don't doubt, and please don't impose unnecessary commands on > users who have transient-mark-mode off. Please don't claim that I imposed any commands on anyone. The region is nearly always present and usually nonempty. A user with `transient-mark-mode' off would typically (IMHO) be bothered if `flush-lines' started always acting on the region (it would be almost always: whenever there's a mark in the buffer and the region is nonempty).=20 Do you disagree? > > Anything that works on "the active region" is something > > that makes sense only when `transient-mark-mode' is on > > (IMHO). >=20 > The important point here is that sort-lines worked on the region, even > if inactive, before the proposed changes, so restricting it now only > to active regions would be a backward-incompatible change of behavior. Yes, sorry; I agree about `sort-lines'. That is not the case for `flush-lines' and `keep-lines'. And I think "the important point here" is that a command that behaves differently when the region is active should NOT act on the region when `transient-mark-mode' is off. Why? Because the notion of "active region" applies only when `transient-mark-mode' is on. Any special behavior provided only when the region is active is, well, only for when the region is active. And that's never the case when `transient-mark-mode' is on. This was not the case for `sort-lines', as you point out. It did NOT, and does not, behave differently when the region is active from when it is inactive. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 05 11:34:34 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2020 15:34:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43902 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEaD4-0004j1-8Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:34:34 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:61245) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEaD2-0004ip-M5 for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:34:33 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5743A80B69; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 11:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E61D0809A1; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 11:34:24 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1599320064; bh=PsGXkQwczLLm7axJXi5JxxlwEDWDiD2SQO0v4/5je7E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Rj2AGE0u4EQ1BWpLMugbbujJQ7FN28++NA6eri68RgUt8gVjWPEcwRUnIuGCAmNcl jJOyZVaSI7tlKhLfzDewVGa8DwYGfImbmuvMGa4TV9pJnfBL92Pu4uq8pSoAQLLxW0 A7VkATBH/egMvFAOd+apP/297jNAThZp6wzyhPVY7o5RD5Alew3O0P+Ofkcm1Q3zjm zSCiK3OE3+zc+PX5soxGjP+ZG2KZ0zoSOhVpiF9SNGCn0It/4R/TdKIBMyGmvW13Ov beEPfzLCcougN/tbGtZiL+Yjx3JkJ/SwMZJlcbJhqe1B/mklnytw1lcJilm7bRnEhJ NuPgjLDTVNimA== Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 913A6120604; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 11:34:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region Message-ID: References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com>> > > > > <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org>> > <83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org>> > <83imcspim8.fsf@gnu.org>> <3aad96d8-2503-40e8-b684-8ed18a089083@default> <83a6y4p98g.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:34:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83a6y4p98g.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 05 Sep 2020 17:51:43 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.062 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, Drew Adams , 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > The important point here is that sort-lines worked on the region, even > if inactive, before the proposed changes, so restricting it now only > to active regions would be a backward-incompatible change of behavior. Indeed, so the patch should check something like (if (or (null transient-mark-mode) (use-region-p)) (list (region-beginning) (region-end)) (list (point-min) (point-max))) `use-region-p` checks `transient-mark-mode` the other way, because it's used mostly for commands which previously did *not* operate on the region, unlike `sort-lines`. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 05 11:37:18 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2020 15:37:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43906 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEaFi-0004n2-NZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:37:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35226) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEaFg-0004mo-76 for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:37:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35431) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kEaFa-0005PP-DH; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:37:10 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2541 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kEaFY-0008II-TV; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:37:09 -0400 Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 18:37:00 +0300 Message-Id: <837dt8p74z.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: <7cfc062e-05b2-43f1-8714-19ebd955b88c@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 5 Sep 2020 08:22:58 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <<<20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com>>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<<83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<>> <<<83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<>> <<<83imcspim8.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<3aad96d8-2503-40e8-b684-8ed18a089083@default>> <<83a6y4p98g.fsf@gnu.org>> <7cfc062e-05b2-43f1-8714-19ebd955b88c@default> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 08:22:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > I doubt that someone who has `transient-mark-mode' off > > > would ever want commands such as `flush-lines' and > > > `sort-lines' to act on the region. And if they did, I > > > expect they'd just narrow to it. > > > > Please don't doubt, and please don't impose unnecessary commands on > > users who have transient-mark-mode off. > > Please don't claim that I imposed any commands on anyone. You expected them to narrow the buffer. That takes additional commands. > The region is nearly always present and usually nonempty. > A user with `transient-mark-mode' off would typically > (IMHO) be bothered if `flush-lines' started always acting > on the region (it would be almost always: whenever there's > a mark in the buffer and the region is nonempty). So maybe flush-lines needs a separate solution, or none at all. This bug is about sort-lines, so flush-lines is a tangent. > And I think "the important point here" is that a command > that behaves differently when the region is active should > NOT act on the region when `transient-mark-mode' is off. That's not really relevant here. We are talking about commands which by virtue of their 'interactive' spec work on the region. Such commands shouldn't depend on the region being active. > This was not the case for `sort-lines', as you point out. > It did NOT, and does not, behave differently when the > region is active from when it is inactive. The proposed change would have made it behave differently, which is why I've pointed that out. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 05 11:46:27 2020 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2020 15:46:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43925 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEaOZ-00050q-2e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:46:27 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:40252) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kEaOX-00050d-49 for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Sep 2020 11:46:26 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 085Fibn5122439; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 15:46:19 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=XMOKqZRaT5uhaeMDurwcM9KMN4raXHPDQHYyDUjH8FU=; b=dfOqZ66q9MeQAXpC1cmPJd84Bhm99l1mIoaVji41t+tb0ofxSL04Oq7DbEZUgsjaF6ND 2fx9VYQpUXsdKOG9nNnWTPFf/GLjaTYdUf1J1dd6o1XEx6XNP+BLzlOU/57rWy5QD8K4 G+5OE38sCUDf/HAsoARd/srLH2hgdgc2RwdMCGZ2YxBlUmHr3wpMBYrZrVMnSeduQOOz EljcxAvxLSqJUSEvQVsnWWQiJKlfdMOPkKQLfzJ8fAWawFRkzFvTeO27Z4m+yWdrphGN 7fG/xsJV2/5/DWxiBiTzRaT1Kly5h2Nsf+vPa9JiIiv5y98TJMM2ZEwphAUVTKbkinRu HA== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33c2mkhe2k-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 05 Sep 2020 15:46:19 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 085FiojH146618; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 15:46:19 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33c2g0pnww-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 05 Sep 2020 15:46:18 +0000 Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 085FkGMG016547; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 15:46:17 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <317a21e9-c922-49f4-897f-1a753e06e13b@default> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 08:46:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Subject: RE: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <<<<20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com>>>> <<<>>> <<<>>> <<<>>> <<<>>> <<<<83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<>>> <<<<83imdcbgc5.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<>>> <<<<83imcspim8.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<3aad96d8-2503-40e8-b684-8ed18a089083@default>>> <<<83a6y4p98g.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<7cfc062e-05b2-43f1-8714-19ebd955b88c@default>> <<837dt8p74z.fsf@gnu.org>> In-Reply-To: <<837dt8p74z.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5044.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9735 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2009050152 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9735 signatures=668679 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2009050152 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > > I doubt that someone who has `transient-mark-mode' off > > > > would ever want commands such as `flush-lines' and > > > > `sort-lines' to act on the region. And if they did, I > > > > expect they'd just narrow to it. > > > > > > Please don't doubt, and please don't impose unnecessary commands on > > > users who have transient-mark-mode off. > > > > Please don't claim that I imposed any commands on anyone. >=20 > You expected them to narrow the buffer. That takes additional > commands. I do expect that, for `flush-lines', which is what I was thinking of. You correctly pointed out that `sort-lines' is different. > > The region is nearly always present and usually nonempty. > > A user with `transient-mark-mode' off would typically > > (IMHO) be bothered if `flush-lines' started always acting > > on the region (it would be almost always: whenever there's > > a mark in the buffer and the region is nonempty). >=20 > So maybe flush-lines needs a separate solution, or none at all. This > bug is about sort-lines, so flush-lines is a tangent. I didn't introduce `flush-lines' into the thread. But yes, the subject line says `sort-lines', and `flush-lines' is a very different case. > > And I think "the important point here" is that a command > > that behaves differently when the region is active should > > NOT act on the region when `transient-mark-mode' is off. >=20 > That's not really relevant here. We are talking about commands which > by virtue of their 'interactive' spec work on the region. Such > commands shouldn't depend on the region being active. Yes, if this is only about commands like `sort-lines'. Introducing `flush-lines' here was apparently a mistake, which muddied the waters. > > This was not the case for `sort-lines', as you point out. > > It did NOT, and does not, behave differently when the > > region is active from when it is inactive. >=20 > The proposed change would have made it behave differently, which is > why I've pointed that out. Good. Agreed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 10 07:25:29 2021 Received: (at 13521) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2021 11:25:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57520 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lg42S-0006Nz-Vx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 07:25:29 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34064) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lg42Q-0006Nk-O9 for 13521@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 07:25:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=i2dQcrnAw55o2Vm7NXMFG7wl7CmYd3BLLmlAXSJPNcM=; b=qHEKKAMANC20S4+efV5gYCNyAq pn87iBzgTnYDpaxIrsKGIhwDEzKU9pBQ4daw2gayn28Bex9O8dvmFpSeSYp0NYLr8j1H0lssQJB5K fMGBwqqGeM1yxPH/UZ47MYNZP6XjFx0k4pa3T1O4dnyVgFcFXyYWP8I8kEjZZNE4uQVw=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lg42H-0007Uv-40; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:25:19 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#13521: `sort-lines' on the empty region References: <20130122085354.75ced82538551655e724e0ea@gmail.com> <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Severed Heads's _Gigapus_: "DOLLARex" Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:25:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83mu2objro.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:22:35 +0300") Message-ID: <871raeu8yr.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > So I think this change will annoy more than help. I agree -- I don't think we should change how `sort-lines' works here. The current behaviour makes sense to me (and changing it sounds like it might lead to people messing up their buffers), even if t [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13521 Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, Stefan Kangas , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 13521@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > So I think this change will annoy more than help. I agree -- I don't think we should change how `sort-lines' works here. The current behaviour makes sense to me (and changing it sounds like it might lead to people messing up their buffers), even if there are other commands that do a DWIM-ish thing in this use case. So I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 10 07:25:32 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2021 11:25:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57523 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lg42V-0006OD-7i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 07:25:31 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34082) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lg42T-0006Nn-CD for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 07:25:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=R/1ffmLsmnJjgsjtGrGilJbhCLt1UcZ85/UjdiuZsv0=; b=uHMwmnwIMFLen4QzXhh1qHMtdk HJIjzHh1B0fi5yJT3dEiJtkyW6dJjkhV0RWJGLk0ekqvPcPQepr+Y3hkRK3yuW49ZHsEPkkVYBfgZ dwCzXInouuPa8h8jUYMwwpfBx/HICKEIoxoMIozDf00IQus48th1BhZ6XeRMRgciSZR8=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lg42L-0007VD-VD for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:25:23 +0200 Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:25:21 +0200 Message-Id: <87zgx2sue6.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #13521 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 13521 wontfix close 13521 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 13521 wontfix close 13521 quit From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:57 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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