GNU bug report logs - #13435
Please don't kill DJGPP support...

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: automake-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:23:35 +0100

Severity: wishlist

Reference:
<http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake/2013-01/msg00050.html>

I'm moving this discussion to bug-automake, so that is will be registered
in our bug tracker, for easier future reference.

On 01/13/2013 08:22 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> The DJGPP project is still quite alive, with most GNU projects having
> up to date builds for DJGPP.
>
But is it really useful today?  That is, Unix emulation under MS systems
means MinGW/MSYS or Cygwin today.  And while DJGPP was a tremendous help
and an amazing piece of software back in its heydays, I'm not sure it is
really relevant anymore now (apart for its aficionados, but that could be
said for almost any good software).

> Since the DJGPP project relies heavily
> on being able to build the GNU projects, dropping support in Automake
> means that any project updating their Automake scripts will be forced
> to drop DJGPP support, whether the project desires that or not.
> 
> If such a trend continues, the Automake team will have effectively
> killed off the whole DJGPP project single-handedly.
> 
> Is there any particular reason why support might be dropped?
>
The main reason were two:

  1. the perceived (on my part) irrelevance DJGPP today, and

  2. the extra complexity introduced by the need of supporting its
    '.iNN' info files.

But now that Automake is planned to drop support for split info files
anyway (see <debbugs.gnu.org/13351>), that second motivation might
as well have become irrelevant.  And the other pieces of code required
to support DJGPP are few and unobtrusive enough that I can consider
re-introducing them if I get convinced DJGPP is not truly irrelevant
yet.

So, in a few days, I hope to be able to push to Automake's git
repository an experimental branch that incorporates the changes
removing support for split info files, *and* reverts some of
the changes where I dropped DJGPP support (that is, all but the
Texinfo-related ones).  If that is enough to make DJGPP support
work again (you or some other interested party will have to test
this is the case), then I will consider re-introducing that
support.

Regards,
  Stefano

Message #10 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:05:20 +0100

On 01/14/2013 01:23 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote:
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> Reference:
> <http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake/2013-01/msg00050.html>
> 
> I'm moving this discussion to bug-automake, so that is will be registered
> in our bug tracker, for easier future reference.
> 
> On 01/13/2013 08:22 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
>> The DJGPP project is still quite alive, with most GNU projects having
>> up to date builds for DJGPP.
>>
I also forgot to ask a rather important question: does modern DJGPP
on Windows 2000/XP/7 etc. support file names starting with a dot?

Regards,
  Stefano

Message #13 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
To: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:38:50 -0500

> I also forgot to ask a rather important question: does modern DJGPP
> on Windows 2000/XP/7 etc. support file names starting with a dot?

Just tested djgpp 2.04 with bash 2.05 on windows 7, and it can create
files with a leading dot.

Message #16 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 22:47:06 +0100

On 01/14/2013 10:38 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
>> I also forgot to ask a rather important question: does modern DJGPP
>> on Windows 2000/XP/7 etc. support file names starting with a dot?
> 
> Just tested djgpp 2.04 with bash 2.05 on windows 7, and it can create
> files with a leading dot.
>
Well, then it appear we might actually have no problems in keeping DJGPP
support.  If the new code with split info files disabled works as expected,
re-instating support for DJGPP (on modern Windows version) will just mean
adding back few simple, unproblematic lines of code.

I will post a patch in a few days.  No need to hurry, since Automake 1.14
(which would have removed DJGPP support) is not due to appear for several
months at least.

Thanks,
  Stefano

Message #19 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
To: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:29:14 -0500

Ok, thanks!

Message #22 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: "automake-patches <at> gnu.org" <automake-patches <at> gnu.org>,
	13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:16:56 +0100

Reference:
<http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13435>

On 01/14/2013 11:29 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
>
> Stefano Lattarini wrote:
>>
>> Well, then it appear we might actually have no problems in keeping DJGPP
>> support.  If the new code with split info files disabled works as expected,
>> re-instating support for DJGPP (on modern Windows version) will just mean
>> adding back few simple, unproblematic lines of code.
>>
>> I will post a patch in a few days.  No need to hurry, since Automake 1.14
>> (which would have removed DJGPP support) is not due to appear for several
>> months at least.
>
> Ok, thanks!

I've pushed my attempt to the public rewindable branch
'experimental/djgpp-for-WinNT'.  Could you give it a try,
when you have time?

The patch itself is below, for reference.

Thanks,
  Stefano

---- 8< ---- 8< ---- 8< ---- 8< ---- 8< ---- 8< ---- 8< ---- 8< ----

From a126418c850c26dfe366417632fee97f12912462 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
Message-Id: <a126418c850c26dfe366417632fee97f12912462.1358943365.git.stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:52:52 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] DGJPP: re-introduce support, on Windows 2000 and later

See automake bug#13435.

The problematic DGJPP-related code should no longer be necessary today:

 * the code to support DJGPP-style split info files ('*.i[0-9][0-9]')
   is no longer needed, since we have dropped support for split info
   files anyway (see commit v1.13.1-60-gcdba479 and automake  bug#13351);

 * on Windows 2000 and later, modern version of DJGPP support file names
   starting with dots.

With that, the remaining pieces of code required to support DJGPP on
non-ancient Windows are few and unobtrusive enough that we re-introduce
them, in order to keep DJGPP alive -- the cost/benefit ratio has become
definitely small enough for that.

Note that support for DJGPP on DOS and Windows 95/98/ME is *not*
reintroduced.  That is no longer worth worrying about.

For reference, here are the commits where we removed DJGPP support:
- v1.13-6-gad08bbf, "Drop support for DJGPP, MS-DOS, Windows 95/98/ME"
- v1.13-7-gff0c7f8, "general: assume dot-starting file names are supported"

* NEWS: Make clear that DJGPP on Windows 2000 and later should still be
supported.
* automake.in (BEGIN): Override $ENV{SHELL} for DJGPP.
* maintainer/syntax-checks.mk (automake_diff_no): Adjust, as there are
now eight (not just seven) different lines between 'automake.in' and
'automake'.
* bootstrap.sh ($BOOTSTRAP_SHELL): Give a more proper default for DJGPP.

Signed-off-by: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
---
 NEWS                        |  2 +-
 automake.in                 |  9 +++++++++
 bootstrap.sh                | 10 ++++++++--
 maintainer/syntax-checks.mk |  2 +-
 4 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)

diff --git a/NEWS b/NEWS
index 7a25b80..825d24b 100644
--- a/NEWS
+++ b/NEWS
@@ -42,7 +42,7 @@ New in 1.14:
     for more information.

   - Support for DJGPP on MS-DOS and/or Windows 95/98/ME has been removed.
-    Note that both Cygwin and MSYS/MinGW on modern Windows versions will
+    Note that Cygwin, MSYS/MinGW and DJGPP on modern Windows versions will
     continue to be fully supported.

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
diff --git a/automake.in b/automake.in
index 4776581..f77ab7c 100644
--- a/automake.in
+++ b/automake.in
@@ -32,6 +32,15 @@ BEGIN
   @Automake::perl_libdirs = ('@datadir@/@PACKAGE@-@APIVERSION@')
     unless @Automake::perl_libdirs;
   unshift @INC, @Automake::perl_libdirs;
+
+  # Override SHELL.  This is required on DJGPP so that system() uses
+  # bash, not COMMAND.COM which doesn't quote arguments properly.
+  # Other systems aren't expected to use $SHELL when Automake
+  # runs, but it should be safe to drop the "if DJGPP" guard if
+  # it turns up other systems need the same thing.  After all,
+  # if SHELL is used, ./configure's SHELL is always better than
+  # the user's SHELL (which may be something like tcsh).
+  $ENV{'SHELL'} = '@SHELL@' if exists $ENV{'DJDIR'};
 }

 use Class::Struct ();
diff --git a/bootstrap.sh b/bootstrap.sh
index bb4221d..6291948 100755
--- a/bootstrap.sh
+++ b/bootstrap.sh
@@ -31,7 +31,13 @@ export AUTOCONF  # might be used by aclocal and/or automake
 export AUTOM4TE  # ditto
 : ${PERL=perl}

-BOOTSTRAP_SHELL=${BOOTSTRAP_SHELL-/bin/sh}
+if test -n "$DJDIR"; then
+  # This is required on DJGPP so that Perl's system() uses bash,
+  # not COMMAND.COM which doesn't quote arguments properly.
+  BOOTSTRAP_SHELL=${BOOTSTRAP_SHELL-/dev/env/DJDIR/bin/bash.exe}
+else
+  BOOTSTRAP_SHELL=${BOOTSTRAP_SHELL-/bin/sh}
+fi

 # Variables to substitute.
 VERSION=`sed -ne '/AC_INIT/s/^[^[]*\[[^[]*\[\([^]]*\)\].*$/\1/p' configure.ac`
@@ -64,7 +70,7 @@ if test -d automake-$APIVERSION; then
 fi
 rm -rf automake-$APIVERSION
 # Can't use "ln -s lib automake-$APIVERSION", that might not work
-# properly on MinGW/MSYS.
+# properly on MinGW/MSYS or DJGPP.
 mkdir automake-$APIVERSION
 cp -rf lib/* automake-$APIVERSION

diff --git a/maintainer/syntax-checks.mk b/maintainer/syntax-checks.mk
index e1d5e6b..6e50d68 100644
--- a/maintainer/syntax-checks.mk
+++ b/maintainer/syntax-checks.mk
@@ -83,7 +83,7 @@ sc_at_in_texi
 ## There are exactly 7 lines that should be modified from automake.in to
 ## automake, and 9 lines that should be modified from aclocal.in to
 ## aclocal.
-automake_diff_no = 7
+automake_diff_no = 8
 aclocal_diff_no = 9
 sc_diff_automake sc_diff_aclocal: sc_diff_% :
 	@set +e; tmp=$*-diffs.tmp; \
-- 
1.8.1.rc3.438.ge9abef6

Message #25 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: "automake-patches <at> gnu.org" <automake-patches <at> gnu.org>,
	13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:55:33 +0100

On 01/23/2013 01:16 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote:
> Reference:
> <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13435>
> 
> On 01/14/2013 11:29 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
>>
>> Stefano Lattarini wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, then it appear we might actually have no problems in keeping DJGPP
>>> support.  If the new code with split info files disabled works as expected,
>>> re-instating support for DJGPP (on modern Windows version) will just mean
>>> adding back few simple, unproblematic lines of code.
>>>
>>> I will post a patch in a few days.  No need to hurry, since Automake 1.14
>>> (which would have removed DJGPP support) is not due to appear for several
>>> months at least.
>>
>> Ok, thanks!
> 
> I've pushed my attempt to the public rewindable branch
> 'experimental/djgpp-for-WinNT'.  Could you give it a try,
> when you have time?
> 
Ping?  I'd like to have confirmation of whether DJGPP support works for
Modern windows before doing the 1.13.2 release; if that's the case, the
"planned backward incompatibilities" section in NEWS will have to be
update to make it clear that we only plan to remove DJGPP-on-DOS support,
and that DGJPP-on-Windows should continue to work correctly.

Thanks,
  Stefano

Message #28 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: "automake-patches <at> gnu.org" <automake-patches <at> gnu.org>,
	13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 21:33:46 +0100

Reference:
<http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13435>

On 01/28/2013 02:55 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote:
> On 01/23/2013 01:16 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote:
>> On 01/14/2013 11:29 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
>>>
>>> Stefano Lattarini wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, then it appear we might actually have no problems in keeping DJGPP
>>>> support.  If the new code with split info files disabled works as expected,
>>>> re-instating support for DJGPP (on modern Windows version) will just mean
>>>> adding back few simple, unproblematic lines of code.
>>>>
>>>> I will post a patch in a few days.  No need to hurry, since Automake 1.14
>>>> (which would have removed DJGPP support) is not due to appear for several
>>>> months at least.
>>>
>>> Ok, thanks!
>>
>> I've pushed my attempt to the public rewindable branch
>> 'experimental/djgpp-for-WinNT'.  Could you give it a try,
>> when you have time?
>>
> Ping?  I'd like to have confirmation of whether DJGPP support works for
> modern Windows before doing the 1.13.2 release; if that's the case, the
> "planned backward incompatibilities" section in NEWS will have to be
> update to make it clear that we only plan to remove DJGPP-on-DOS support,
> and that DGJPP-on-Windows should continue to work correctly.
> 
Ping x 2 ?

Thanks,
  Stefano

Message #31 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: "automake-patches <at> gnu.org" <automake-patches <at> gnu.org>,
	13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 16:01:03 +0100

On 02/03/2013 09:33 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote:
Reference:
<http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13435>
> 
> On 01/28/2013 02:55 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote:
>> On 01/23/2013 01:16 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote:
>>>
>>> I've pushed my attempt to the public rewindable branch
>>> 'experimental/djgpp-for-WinNT'.  Could you give it a try,
>>> when you have time?
>>>
>> Ping?  I'd like to have confirmation of whether DJGPP support works for
>> modern Windows before doing the 1.13.2 release; if that's the case, the
>> "planned backward incompatibilities" section in NEWS will have to be
>> update to make it clear that we only plan to remove DJGPP-on-DOS support,
>> and that DGJPP-on-Windows should continue to work correctly.
>>
> Ping x 2 ?
> 
Another ping.  Consider that I will not merge the patch reinstating DJGPP
support until someone has confirmed it actually works.

Regards,
  Stefano

Message #34 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
To: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
Cc: automake-patches <at> gnu.org, 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:43:28 -0500

I won't hold you up.  Since none of my folks thought it important
enough to take the time to test it, please just back-burner it.  If
someone here needs the patch, they know where to find it.

Thanks!

Message #37 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: automake-patches <at> gnu.org, 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 20:58:13 +0100

tags 13435 + moreinfo patch
thanks

On 03/05/2013 08:43 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> I won't hold you up.  Since none of my folks thought it important
> enough to take the time to test it, please just back-burner it.  If
> someone here needs the patch, they know where to find it.
> 
OK.  I just find it a pity to throw away DJGPP support at this point, since
it turned out that the code needed to support it was really simple after all.

Anyway, in the meantime I'm marking this report as "more info needed" (where
such info is the result of the needed test exposure).  I'll close the report
as "wontfix" a couple of months in the future if nobody has reported anything
by then.

Thanks, and best regards,
  Stefano

Message #42 received at 13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Nick Bowler <nbowler <at> elliptictech.com>
To: DJ Delorie <dj <at> delorie.com>
Cc: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini <at> gmail.com>, automake-patches <at> gnu.org,
	13435 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13435: Please don't kill DJGPP support...
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 15:18:01 -0500

On 2013-03-05 14:43 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
> I won't hold you up.  Since none of my folks thought it important
> enough to take the time to test it, please just back-burner it.  If
> someone here needs the patch, they know where to find it.

FWIW I tried to setup a DOS/DJGPP environment for testing but
never managed to get past the /dev/null problems described on
the comp.os.msdos.djgpp newsgroup:

  Subject: Re: Reading /dev/null seems broken.
  Message-ID: <kd54do$hu8$1 <at> dont-email.me>

  https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!msg/comp.os.msdos.djgpp/okhH1hvBXDM/ugOABoho1V8J

Cheers,
-- 
Nick Bowler, Elliptic Technologies (http://www.elliptictech.com/)

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