From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:05:43 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#13371 <13371@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#13371 <13371@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: removing @acronym from manual Reply-To: bug#13371 <13371@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 21:05:43 +0000 retitle 13371 removing @acronym from manual reassign 13371 coreutils submitter 13371 karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) severity 13371 normal tag 13371 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 06 18:10:15 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2013 23:10:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33317 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TrzM6-0004hx-0y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:10:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39059) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TrzM3-0004hl-Vv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:10:12 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrzLv-0005aN-Az for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:10:06 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:40779) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrzLv-0005a1-7g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:10:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50417) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrzLt-0006QO-1R for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:10:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrzLr-0005Wb-RC for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:10:00 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([66.54.153.139]:55719 helo=freefriends.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrzLq-0005Vq-3D; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:09:58 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r06N9rMl029352; Sun, 6 Jan 2013 16:09:53 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.6/8.14.6/submit) id r06N9r3J029341; Sun, 6 Jan 2013 23:09:53 GMT Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 23:09:53 GMT Message-Id: <201301062309.r06N9r3J029341@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: nobody set sender to karl@freefriends.org using -f From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: eliz@gnu.org Subject: Re: removing @acronym from manual In-Reply-To: <83r4ly8dv8.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-coreutils@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) the latest Texinfo documentation (from the 4.13.93 pretest) says nothing about that On the contrary, I added (brief) text to both the acronym and Smallcaps nodes giving caveats about using @acronym and @sc quite a while ago. It's been in all the pretests. I've retweaked that text again just now, though, so I'm glad you mentioned it. Anyway, avoiding them is not official requirement, not at all. Not even an official recommendation. I just came to the conclusion when people asked my advice some years ago -- I observed that whenever a manual tries to use @acronym or @sc for normal all-caps abbreviations, such as "GNU", in practice the commands are not used consistently (as we have just seen in the coreutils case). Since there's no special benefit to using @acronym{GNU} or @sc{gnu} over just plain "GNU", it's merely about typographic preferences, my suggestion was that it was better to avoid the whole issue, simplify the source, and go with "GNU". Nevertheless, if a GNU manual wants to use them, that is fine by me. k From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 06 22:50:49 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2013 03:50:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33416 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ts3jY-0003Dp-Pn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:50:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53760) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ts3jM-0003DO-TX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:50:36 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ts3jD-0004zD-Ql for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:50:25 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:38399) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ts3jD-0004z8-NQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:50:23 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36878) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ts3jC-0003Ll-DF for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:50:23 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ts3jA-0004yf-PL for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:50:22 -0500 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:45263) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ts3jA-0004xl-HH for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:50:20 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MG800B00L8BNP00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 05:50:05 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MG800BMBLBHER40@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 05:50:05 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 05:50:14 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: removing @acronym from manual In-reply-to: <201301062309.r06N9r3J029341@freefriends.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Message-id: <83k3rp8xe1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <201301062309.r06N9r3J029341@freefriends.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-coreutils@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) > Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 23:09:53 GMT > From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) > Cc: bug-coreutils@gnu.org > > the latest Texinfo documentation (from the 4.13.93 pretest) says > nothing about that > > On the contrary, I added (brief) text to both the acronym and Smallcaps > nodes giving caveats about using @acronym and @sc quite a while ago. > It's been in all the pretests. I've retweaked that text again just now, > though, so I'm glad you mentioned it. It says nothing about avoiding them. Specifically, nothing anywhere near this: > Didn't we conclude it was better to avoid @acronym and the consequent > ugly rendering in browsers? (Except in cases where it's actually > useful, which is never in the coreutils manual.) This seems to say that, unlike the @acronym{GNU} example in the Texinfo manual, using @acronym{GNU} in the Coreutils manual is to be avoided, and that its rendering is ugly. I see nothing like that in the Texinfo manual, not a hint. > Anyway, avoiding them is not official requirement, not at all. Not even > an official recommendation. I just came to the conclusion when people > asked my advice some years ago -- I observed that whenever a manual > tries to use @acronym or @sc for normal all-caps abbreviations, such as > "GNU", in practice the commands are not used consistently (as we have > just seen in the coreutils case). Consistency is OK, for sure. But avoiding a feature instead of using it consistently will not fix the issue, IMO, because "GNU" can still be inconsistently mixed with "@acronym{GNU}" and "@sc{gnu}". > Nevertheless, if a GNU manual wants to use them, that is fine by me. Thanks for this clarification. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 18 19:20:32 2018 Received: (at 13371) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Oct 2018 23:20:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57561 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gDHai-0006IF-BY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:20:32 -0400 Received: from mail-it1-f170.google.com ([209.85.166.170]:55712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gDHae-0006Hv-Cq; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:20:30 -0400 Received: by mail-it1-f170.google.com with SMTP id c23-v6so2382592itd.5; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:20:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G1/1TsAASvCLbdNEzNQ37p7UI5V40oU05ojoWkfEdQg=; b=ZPGyvmCKgiQaMvKrHYm3nw4OcP6e8SvTqQirGRDroKgissWQy1H0m2+KWuOT8riBDk lFFkcJ69hLEid771ERZIvXMEz42iOOzzdXdkpUJl/67lHiDtS4wCIaKqzYbbt2lquQHw ASXtx7Prr9Wwzl3N5Ob6moj2xFgVw2B+bMawUC5jQnnZqVIvJXkDWZjmE50ltTyLtUF1 1aHPtt5NQRHbxx83W9CbTjg5lzYMnuvjpcLX4ioDaWR+OfRt3mZhd3IHp7BL/hML0neb Ztzzm/GfNpF6R9GLpgezKvku63oVUpt8v7Ghazwg50BOTiwEcla5yTGL4YlBnvXb5iZR QnYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G1/1TsAASvCLbdNEzNQ37p7UI5V40oU05ojoWkfEdQg=; b=SWJx7lTUi2Hq67e5dPIyw0OL5uBzAeOo0MzMI0newKx8QKgjz5xTgB8GdCh4b77iZX XaBqYb/VBv/CQExb1EH9bcywPW4SNzMb4rZq7bBWvIePua15CLcz1y+VZp/P0tEpotMB HVbpHxPMfIgXDoh9iY5dgq5E4SaMGFqRIWFgmIUfOX63ecdVM7xpzF/gGFbwudcJJ+HQ Khdbkei8cN3M9YMR926NLky7Eeey2ArIW4VtIBv8YRzttNb28DdJ+5fE45916nTt4XER 2gMamwgyBhnZiYefRoy1JTAxachlXxo63NUCl2k6dVDslZ8SwaetCNaU5KMgY1Vn/vzZ 8V4g== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoh2Vc+/khZ/oeZkWVhlyBgaLedI5IZ9vOKSFSH89v1OgNrnlLp4 AbgBtfoWPObl4zuBAZa/js0wftAq X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV611u5jYqu/Y6Jq+qtj9LB39kJPNFiXF29pdzo6jbDbDxuSw8vi6u27B7hbpzc9KzIqY8hL6kQ== X-Received: by 2002:a24:fc02:: with SMTP id b2-v6mr1721111ith.45.1539904822316; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tomato.housegordon.com (moose.housegordon.com. [184.68.105.38]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id u1-v6sm1382957itu.42.2018.10.18.16.20.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#13371: removing @acronym from manual To: 13371@debbugs.gnu.org References: <201301062309.r06N9r3J029341@freefriends.org> From: Assaf Gordon Message-ID: <8190dcff-a635-0bff-f5d3-d37d5fb2e147@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:20:18 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201301062309.r06N9r3J029341@freefriends.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13371 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 13371 fixed close 13371 stop (triaging old bugs) Hello, On 06/01/13 04:09 PM, Karl Berry wrote: > Since there's no special benefit to using @acronym{GNU} or @sc{gnu} over > just plain "GNU", it's merely about typographic preferences, my > suggestion was that it was better to avoid the whole issue, simplify the > source, and go with "GNU". There are no more "@acronym" in the manual, and GNU is used without @sc/@acronym through-out. Closing this bug. -assaf From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:05:43 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 12:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator