From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:39:31 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#13334 <13334@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#13334 <13334@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults Reply-To: bug#13334 <13334@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:39:31 +0000 retitle 13334 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of def= aults reassign 13334 emacs submitter 13334 "Drew Adams" severity 13334 wishlist tag 13334 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 01 23:56:57 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2013 04:56:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39563 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqGNr-0006au-V4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:56:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54589) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqGNp-0006an-P2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:56:54 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqGMV-0006qU-5U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:55:34 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:52504) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqGMV-0006qO-2K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:55:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37716) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqGMT-0002eA-S4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:55:30 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqGMS-0006q5-LR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:55:29 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:16418) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqGMS-0006pv-F6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:55:28 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r024tQ52018822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 04:55:27 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r024tQOG010971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 04:55:26 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r024tPNV018839 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2013 22:55:26 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 20:55:25 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:55:10 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac3opVerFFaXJ6IVRn6+A7Yfcew07Q== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) This is an enhancement request. Not long ago we introduced the possibility of having more than one default value for minibuffer input. Users can cycle among these using `M-n' (when the end of the history is reached, including before using `M-p'). These default values are sometimes ordered in a way that we think might be useful (more useful values closer to the last input, i.e., to the end of the past inputs). Sometimes there is no special order. In any case, today a user must cycle `M-n' repeatedly to get to a default value that is far from the last input. S?he can use a prefix argument to skip over some values. A zero prefix arg has no effect whatsoever: no feedback, nada. The enhancement would be to let a zero prefix arg (e.g. `C-0') reverse the list of available default values and then go to the first one (previously the last one). So you could cycle among the defaults in the opposite order. If there are 10 default values, the first `C-0 M-n' would move to the 10th value, which would become the 1st value. The 9th would become the 2nd, and so on. So the next `M-n' would move to what was previously the 9th etc. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-12-31 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 111388 rudalics@gmx.at-20121231113513-subz2dazg6yjukzh Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -IC:/Devel/emacs/build/include --ldflags -LC:/Devel/emacs/build/lib' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 19:35:25 2013 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 00:35:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40581 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqYmL-0002YI-IQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:35:25 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:47958 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqYmJ-0002Y9-8j for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:35:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5D8229B0FC9B; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:33:58 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults Organization: JURTA References: Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 02:27:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:55:10 -0800") Message-ID: <87ip7fyuuc.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) > The enhancement would be to let a zero prefix arg (e.g. `C-0') reverse > the list of available default values and then go to the first one > (previously the last one). So you could cycle among the defaults in the > opposite order. Much more useful would be to display a complete list of suggestions, so the users would be able to select the necessary element easily. This is how it works in web browsers: a drop-down list with suggestions is displayed where you can use up/down-arrow keys to select the suggestion. Web browsers combine two types of lists into one suggestion box: previously entered elements from the history and new suggestions (often based on popular searches). In Emacs the keybinding that works like this is or M-v (`switch-to-completions'). But currently it doesn't display suggestions. It could be enhanced to sort completions and put suggestions on the top of the *Completions* list. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 19:51:05 2013 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 00:51:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40596 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqZ1U-0002wU-Ve for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:51:05 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:18772) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqZ1S-0002wK-9L for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:51:03 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r030nZq0009532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:49:35 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r030nYLk014015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:49:35 GMT Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r030nYsS014852; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 18:49:34 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.143.132) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 16:49:34 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" References: <87ip7fyuuc.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:49:29 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87ip7fyuuc.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Ac3pSgaHKYVcblCARg2FgcuIT1DXjgAAKwYw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > > The enhancement would be to let a zero prefix arg (e.g. > > `C-0') reverse the list of available default values and > > then go to the first one (previously the last one). > > So you could cycle among the defaults in the opposite order. > > Much more useful would be to display a complete list of suggestions, > so the users would be able to select the necessary element easily. > > This is how it works in web browsers: a drop-down list with > suggestions is displayed where you can use up/down-arrow keys to select > the suggestion. > Web browsers combine two types of lists into one suggestion box: > previously entered elements from the history and new suggestions > (often based on popular searches). > > In Emacs the keybinding that works like this is or M-v > (`switch-to-completions'). But currently it doesn't display > suggestions. It could be enhanced to sort completions and put > suggestions on the top of the *Completions* list. No, please do not do any such thing. Please keep *Completions* separate. Do not mix such "suggestions" or past inputs with completion candidates. Simply adding the default value(s) to the history is enough, provided you also do what is done in Icicles: provide a minibuffer key (available always, not just during completion) that lets you complete against the history list. I use `M-o' for this (by default). You can pull any number of history elements into the same minibuffer input you are composing, any number of times. And you can use completion to access the history elements. (And they are kept separate from the completion candidates of the parent minibuffer - you are completing only against history elements.) http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_History_Enhancements#InsertPreviousInpu ts If you want to move beyond the existing M-n, M-p, M-s, M-r for vanilla Emacs, then please consider using an enhancement like the Icicles M-o. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 03 19:16:37 2013 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2013 00:16:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42210 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tquxh-0006WR-Fu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 19:16:37 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:58878 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tquxf-0006WC-2C for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 19:16:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C777320012C225; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:16:29 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults Organization: JURTA References: <87ip7fyuuc.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:51:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:49:29 -0800") Message-ID: <87vcbdu8p1.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) > Simply adding the default value(s) to the history is enough, provided > you also do what is done in Icicles: provide a minibuffer key > (available always, not just during completion) that lets you complete > against the history list. I use `M-o' for this (by default). Web browsers use `M-down', so we could provide the same. I don't expect much controversy in regard to this key ;-) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 03 19:40:25 2013 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2013 00:40:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42242 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqvKj-00079K-5Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 19:40:25 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:21489) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqvKh-00079C-3s for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 19:40:23 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r040eHEe023502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 Jan 2013 00:40:18 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r040eE0C009583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 4 Jan 2013 00:40:15 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r040eEwn006273; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 18:40:14 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.8) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:40:14 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" References: <87ip7fyuuc.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87vcbdu8p1.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:40:13 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87vcbdu8p1.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Ac3qEL+w67C4eaxdSsC6qQslJdVdwAAAsHfw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > Simply adding the default value(s) to the history is > > enough, provided you also do what is done in Icicles: > > provide a minibuffer key (available always, not just > > during completion) that lets you complete > > against the history list. I use `M-o' for this (by default). > > Web browsers use `M-down', so we could provide the same. > I don't expect much controversy in regard to this key ;-) FWIW - 1. I use `M-down' for incremental frame movements (down). Cursor keys should generally be used for directional actions, if possible. (FWIW, M-down does nothing in my web browser. And basing Emacs keys on what some web browsers might use them for is not a strong argument, IMO.) 2. I chose `M-o' for history element completion & insertion because it is bound globally to a command that is not particularly useful in the minibuffer. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 15:18:45 2016 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2016 19:18:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53572 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avrSW-0004Qf-T9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:18:45 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:34443) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avrSV-0004QV-0Z for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:18:43 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avrSS-0006tr-Iw; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 21:18:42 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults References: Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 21:18:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:55:10 -0800") Message-ID: <8737q55ypb.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) "Drew Adams" writes: > The enhancement would be to let a zero prefix arg (e.g. `C-0') reverse > the list of available default values and then go to the first one > (previously the last one). So you could cycle among the defaults in the > opposite order. I think that sounds very awkward. I don't expect users to remember what they had in the oldest part of the history. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 15:18:52 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2016 19:18:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53575 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avrSe-0004Qx-3U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:18:52 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:34455) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avrSd-0004Qq-17 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:18:51 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avrSZ-0006tx-UP for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 21:18:50 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 21:18:47 +0200 Message-Id: <871t5p5yp4.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #13334 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tags 13334 wontfix close 13334 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 10:36:45 2016 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 14:36:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55387 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aw9XB-0002C1-8w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:36:45 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:19583) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aw9XA-0002Bp-55 for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:36:44 -0400 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u3TEabdT005180 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:36:38 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TEabIn005740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:36:37 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u3TEaaml031446; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:36:36 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1bdd590d-d906-4f96-8b40-46dcf1e27c8b@default> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:36:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults References: <8737q55ypb.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <8737q55ypb.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: juri@jurta.org, 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > The enhancement would be to let a zero prefix arg (e.g. `C-0') reverse > > the list of available default values and then go to the first one > > (previously the last one). So you could cycle among the defaults in th= e > > opposite order. >=20 > I think that sounds very awkward. I don't expect users to remember what > they had in the oldest part of the history. Perhaps you did not understand the request. This is NOT about remembering anything. This is NOT even about the input history. At all. This is about the set (list) of _default values_ a user can choose from using `M-n'. You don't need to remember anything or know what's in that list. In fact that's the point: you generally do not know what is in the list (all of it). Giving you the ability to reverse the order at any time lets you get to any of its elements easier, and even to more easily discover what is in the list. Juri proposed (in this thread) an alternative approach, which also tries to solve the same problem: give users easier access to elements in the (possibly long) list of defaults. The problem is real (if minor). This ticket should be left open so that the best solution can be found and implemented. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 18:04:22 2016 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 22:04:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56042 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awGWM-0004Cp-3t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:04:22 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]:56949) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awGWK-0004Cc-A6 for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:04:20 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.217.122.112]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MT8sw-1b5aAl431y-00S8I2; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:04:06 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults References: Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:04:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:55:10 -0800") Message-ID: <87h9ekcbsb.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.93 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:xcMcsjd7RqmcqB4MasphbFWkpL5px+kcikVPxh72hDC7OSJfH48 UZUiDaSyc924PQXlx9iEs7IDSfmWkusEORCiUYgX7frDoE/Hd6H8gGgbat4eWV1Q8rHuGgU 0Oz1zqpX/VNO06Cnl1VqLy50WdKx+pcyt5rK9nEyr2ocgvvI0G3plyI8v0dEeGocJW9aMcu 0JOrrlTFKoSa5F0hKc3cw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:F0dLmI/M4Jo=:tiU4KFMPIBjk2OJ5O+fE4q /1qWjXMepW10yo2CV4Cxg2lXDWkcld7nSnjxPoz/or1iMBvZCy4Qx69F4TfzQyf1w9wK8Cfin hoqrNctfWMgy169gdEwcuwNfZ2dZf5W1WmJp8IR+HxCfxGXZ+Xmj9TRuxeEavwz8SUa71ZpRE u0bLa8w4vylGYAB0vfqnKJhlEqRNdiJi2FGw7jLyJ8Z3MYTIRwVDoCC53StXIcaAUc4Cpko4l Sscm73aAvzx7nUL6ARkGq820VKEsSfSaP0dZAeaP8f6XTHgTnh7FWBBVcOWoQmJF6uE2irBsU I5JU9+Lnqq+EMeitdShQWZPqJyhVfcft73Gm7UencQm5o6ZzWdTxSYUOEDttGj6WLbQ+owmBh CT9V+umJokAaCwIQ4lRA+big/LmsoWiYOx25jK3hPlAfyzUwtU+Ku4uprUPpg5vehxqj7ZSNE yGnGB3b2TA1AEoZIyY/KeCWR1u3mqupMT96xHSrpV0HwaeyKXPleoYZCyG/OVC7PdlMOXaV+c Ks4Rgz4e7mZZc3NohY6ovF2wbX7iiY9DbUixTTNj6o5uRVLeONevHGSenf2AVwbEuGHzYOm2m zoryk169b+/4Y6ublGeVuRhVNd3aC2iQqdEb2cdotoZrX13XxKmeBjdvW6gpKfrIjUwcKzXCF Jq4hPedSZOewtDug2j4NLqlkU0TuUlpgFQiXFRCAdrK9BzsGsQORwon8J5q2WdG3T656lm70x +A38k3kHMK0SwOQM7yNIudffCML+6mhE/HSjmaYsCD+PuSBywly5609MxVLWTRR4IEXFngPX6 u4GokxI X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) "Drew Adams" writes: > The enhancement would be to let a zero prefix arg (e.g. `C-0') reverse > the list of available default values and then go to the first one > (previously the last one). So you could cycle among the defaults in the > opposite order. A slightly different approach would be to make it just go to the end of the history, without changing the order. Then you could just use M-p to go backwards. I guess that would not be hard to do (see `goto-history-element'). Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 29 18:47:34 2016 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 22:47:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56140 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awHCA-0001z7-1L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:47:34 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:20292) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awHC7-0001yn-PC for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:47:32 -0400 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u3TMlNht001722 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:47:24 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TMlNIq030292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:47:23 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TMlK2v001644; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:47:21 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:47:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: RE: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults References: <87h9ekcbsb.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: <87h9ekcbsb.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > The enhancement would be to let a zero prefix arg (e.g. `C-0') reverse > > the list of available default values and then go to the first one > > (previously the last one). So you could cycle among the defaults in th= e > > opposite order. >=20 > A slightly different approach would be to make it just go to the end of > the history, without changing the order. Then you could just use M-p to > go backwards. I guess that would not be hard to do (see > `goto-history-element'). Agreed. That is about as good. (But again, it's not about the input _history_. It's about a set of possible default values.) The only reason what I suggested might be considered slightly better is that `C-p' is generally thought of as accessing the input history (see the above confusion), not the defaults. That's the case at the outset, but of course once you've used one of `C-n' or `C-p' the other just reverses within the list (inputs or defaults) that you started cycling, until you get back to the starting point (origin, dividing the two lists). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 06:35:45 2016 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 10:35:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56399 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awSFV-0007wZ-Cg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 06:35:45 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:60734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awSFU-0007wM-2t for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 06:35:44 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.217.122.112]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb103) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LdF0f-1bN1gi3077-00iSdK; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:35:33 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults References: <87h9ekcbsb.fsf@web.de> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:35:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:47:19 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87vb2zz8nf.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.93 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:/I683dGAG/+qwEB8UYRtCYofiKIv9sJWO7OTKRwkjjoRjx+OrXD aE2kujfUuz2uL7h8PAoru6Wn3ObLDrOMZS0Bkuf+VWI341Pzy9NthZ8KSR8FEZl3oG5Q+rJ hDoGYn54fN3KWcd1jV1kTFlXnccNilX65E98ivhtHTtKkrIULrv+/BRPut4rnbgQMM+zc7n Gd0k2qoEC6xZVM57RU4YA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:zRjMQ27icuk=:CLsB00BytrMJdRRsNuKMsi Gw58EyauA5jtRM8ScNZqdRpRelUvT3YzmBCATtzM1UieqQ5TqH2TcO4lj19zNPIag2H9/+2Zd iILTtQLmnxc6jWq83mEkMEfaFrOOttYK5zL9G++acVTo9OqHlZrE91ywE5JbDZbu/QnP6lQFc 6ItSID2md1qSThoENAsd4gZuo0AcacTkwS2iXA4xg2gHc3NHeMKSgxJNtyLFUtbTbyDYcterY VDpFBc2AQcV9E6wG2F4sHmc5Y2zPVcqQHMLyFCKRw4OMDh1ckWgaJfuFBN7ggO91tSj1wPuuh IbxGs9zUePXK0JjmM1Ygmt92Z2UQ8MbTVCPwnfsTVklcQG+CEFITq5iQ0BHaVTS79Mmyko6YW d46pC5oyRRmMAhpuw5esQp9OFHri3AZZp3EhNaMXNF/87pmI7FIyFsfduijmeS3ZYXzagcyC9 za6NT6bytyH6X2N02fIcqOeEQqUU/i4lLsIqjuPunFhyfy7HxsgqGYcWjdg68BIbs5QUq0E5m gpqH63EKJZd74+3Xq7fzeQBDJJ8QrQ145fgsXKAly1yvEgKRq4ifGnfDlm9RxGyxcDPCnoiU8 8zsbrFTf9DNsQen3+mUULkVRJ5FPnzyYDVp5FupFYsdOH9qAwIMi+WLcBTAS04jA0ImqF1yom V8KhsKrCuujFTy1uW5QWS/uVnPyDYpRIEi3mfSVZOMNVtWjtrl0KwM02pIQ9E8pb+rsoWpytM REinkNZlsygVKLLpidS7fdXtqt4+4ljtP4HRtMP5xL4dBYDEuYnkznTMGRcJJ21Pw83wnOh5h 59NZTAy X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > > A slightly different approach would be to make it just go to the end of > > the history, without changing the order. Then you could just use M-p to > > go backwards. I guess that would not be hard to do (see > > `goto-history-element'). > > Agreed. That is about as good. (But again, it's not about the input > _history_. It's about a set of possible default values.) I had realized that. > The only reason what I suggested might be considered slightly better > is that `C-p' is generally thought of as accessing the input history > (see the above confusion), not the defaults. > > That's the case at the outset, but of course once you've used one of > `C-n' or `C-p' the other just reverses within the list (inputs or > defaults) that you started cycling, until you get back to the starting > point (origin, dividing the two lists). (Do you mean M-n, M-p?) Internally it's just one list AFAIK (with the starting point somewhere in the middle after defaults have been added, so to say). M-n and M-p move through the complete list without distinguishing in which "part" we are - history or defaults. So I don't think just going to the end of the defaults would be confusing. Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 30 11:22:34 2016 Received: (at 13334) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 15:22:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57924 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWj4-0003YA-No for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:22:34 -0400 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:25122) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awWj3-0003Xw-9D for 13334@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:22:33 -0400 Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u3UFMRJn021768 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:22:27 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3UFMQIe030786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:22:26 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3UFMPdO002140; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:22:25 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <97b12715-80de-40cb-9323-fe56cbc7c1bc@default> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:22:24 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Drew Adams To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: RE: bug#13334: 24.3.50; enhancement request: `C-0 M-n' reverses order of defaults References: <87h9ekcbsb.fsf@web.de> <87vb2zz8nf.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: <87vb2zz8nf.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13334 Cc: 13334@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > The only reason what I suggested might be considered slightly better > > is that `C-p' is generally thought of as accessing the input history > > (see the above confusion), not the defaults. > > > > That's the case at the outset, but of course once you've used one of > > `C-n' or `C-p' the other just reverses within the list (inputs or > > defaults) that you started cycling, until you get back to the starting > > point (origin, dividing the two lists). >=20 > (Do you mean M-n, M-p?) Yes, sorry. > Internally it's just one list AFAIK (with the starting point somewhere > in the middle after defaults have been added, so to say). M-n and M-p > move through the complete list without distinguishing in which "part" we > are - history or defaults. So I don't think just going to the end of > the defaults would be confusing. As I say, it would be fine by me. And yes it is one list, and no, there is no distinguishing the parts (perhaps there should be). Still the two parts are different. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:39:31 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator