From unknown Mon Jun 16 23:45:35 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#13333 <13333@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#13333 <13333@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' Reply-To: bug#13333 <13333@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 06:45:35 +0000 retitle 13333 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' reassign 13333 emacs submitter 13333 "Drew Adams" severity 13333 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 01 23:13:50 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2013 04:13:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39550 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFiA-0005XU-0E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:13:50 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFi5-0005XK-LH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:13:47 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFgn-0004lS-Re for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:12:26 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:51327) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFgm-0004lE-Qy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:12:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60520) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFgl-0007Fj-Mr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:12:24 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFgg-0004kS-4e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:12:23 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27025) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFgf-0004kE-Uo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:12:18 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r024CFBr025296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 04:12:16 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r024CE2X021456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 04:12:15 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r024CE37016488 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2013 22:12:14 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 20:12:14 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:11:59 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac3on09Jz8BPSlGbTXKf9805gL3hmg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) There are multiple problems with this node. 1. I was trying to find the place in the manual where we mention using `M-n' to retrieve one or more default values for minibuffer input. I tried looking in the index for "default value" and even just "default", but I found no such entries. This concept of "default input", "default input value" "default minibuffer input" etc. (choose your own entries) needs to be indexed. Just tucking this behavior away under the topic of minibuffer history is not sufficient in terms of indexing - it is a convenient hack that `M-n' doubles as a way to retrieve default values, but looking up information about the history should not be the only way to stumble upon info about default input values. Both concepts regarding minibuffer input: (a) history (past inputs) and (b) default input values, need to be indexed. 2. Searching for "default" in this node, which is presumably the node where #1 needs to be documented, I find an explanation that isn't very good. For one thing, it speaks of "default arguments". There are no arguments or parameters here. These are default values for possible minibuffer input. This is user doc. Users should not need to think in terms of `read-from-minibuffer', `completing-read', or any other such function. They should not even need to be aware of these. They don't care that some function is being called to read their input, and the default values for their input are also passed as parts of an argument to such a function. 3. We should also not say this, as it is not helpful and can be confusing: You can think of this as moving through the "future history" list. There is no logical connection between the set of default values and the history list - whether "future history" or past. The only connection is that we have made the `M-n' key do double duty. That's a good hack, but there is zero reason to confuse users by inviting them to think of retrieving default values as `moving through the "future history" list.' Default values, like completion candidates, are shortcuts to entering input. Yes, something you input gets added to a history, but that does not mean that the concept of a default input value - any more than the concept of a completion candidate - is the same as that of a past input. Default values are choices as much as completions are. Neither set is ordered temporally. Putting the former on the `M-n' list is a convenience that is NOT related to the fact that `M-n' can also move forward along the history list. 4. Some keys are written incorrectly. "`M-p'" is correct. "" is incorrect (search for it in the node). Uppercasing "" and "" is also incorrect. These function keys, like others (, , etc.) should be lowercase. That is the way Emacs itself communicates regarding them, and it is the way Emacs doc should represent them also. (Smarter would be to also get rid of the useless angle brackets, and just use `...'. But that's another story.) In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-12-31 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 111388 rudalics@gmx.at-20121231113513-subz2dazg6yjukzh Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -IC:/Devel/emacs/build/include --ldflags -LC:/Devel/emacs/build/lib' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 01 23:16:44 2013 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2013 04:16:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39555 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFkx-0005cg-LB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:16:43 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:42573) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqFkv-0005cX-1n for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:16:41 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r024FLUq026994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <13333@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 04:15:21 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r024FKJI019947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <13333@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 04:15:20 GMT Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r024FK4B017837 for <13333@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 1 Jan 2013 22:15:20 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 20:15:20 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: <13333@debbugs.gnu.org> References: Subject: RE: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:15:05 -0800 Message-ID: <9F716A63E4204B42B51AB3A5461FC74D@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac3on09Jz8BPSlGbTXKf9805gL3hmgAACRew X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) Another thing: Please mention also that you can use a numerical prefix argument with `M-n', `M-p', etc. to move to a specific history item or default value. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 19:35:25 2013 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 00:35:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40579 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqYmK-0002YF-Jd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:35:25 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:47954 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqYmH-0002Y2-Lm for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:35:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66754258B9E915; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:33:56 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' Organization: JURTA References: Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 02:17:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:11:59 -0800") Message-ID: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) > You can think of this as moving through the "future history" list. "future history" is a misnomer. > There is no logical connection between the set of default values "default values" is a misnomer. There can be only one default value that it used when the user enters empty input in the minibuffer. Other values are not "defaults". In most applications similar functionality is called "suggestions" where a drop-down list of suggestions is displayed while the user types a query into a text box. This feature is documented at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_suggest_drop-down_list Thus I propose to enhance the documentation by replacing the term DEFAULTS with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS) where DEFAULT will retain its original meaning of the value returned for empty input and SUGGESTIONS is a list of suggestions available via `M-n'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 19:39:56 2013 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 00:39:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40586 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqYqi-0002ev-5N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:39:56 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:42384) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqYqf-0002eo-Bj for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:39:54 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r030cSlw001989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:38:28 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r030cR3f025469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:38:28 GMT Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r030cRPK024594; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 18:38:27 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.143.132) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 16:38:27 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:38:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1FAE0B66C2EC42119F81720C03AB4E89@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Ac3pSgVWVsO8LQMiSRuZU4xrP2fj8gAAFpuQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > > You can think of this as moving through the "future history" list. > > "future history" is a misnomer. Yes. > > There is no logical connection between the set of default values > > "default values" is a misnomer. > > There can be only one default value that it used when the user enters > empty input in the minibuffer. Other values are not "defaults". > > In most applications similar functionality is called "suggestions" > where a drop-down list of suggestions is displayed while the user > types a query into a text box. This feature is documented at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_suggest_drop-down_list > > Thus I propose to enhance the documentation by replacing the term > DEFAULTS with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS) where DEFAULT will retain > its original meaning of the value returned for empty input > and SUGGESTIONS is a list of suggestions available via `M-n'. I agree with your suggestion. But please propose it to everyone at emacs-devel. And please leave this bug open, unless you also correct the problems it addresses. (Yes, if your suggestion is implemented that will change some of the text of this node. But let's please get all of the problems mentioned taken care of, whether or not the suggestion gets done.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 23 10:41:35 2021 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Aug 2021 14:41:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42284 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIB8p-0003mP-KH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 10:41:35 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44666) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIB8n-0003m5-Po for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 10:41:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=nhuRqjyjBI5U6akoVHboKBNDObytHHxXho14MQWHg8k=; b=ski6wXV3TNHZHcbqafM4GnJm7k /JwImGrGxiLuo4h47MAl0r16FvnNx/2VkumBzyoGyDHEnkTdfl5F9oclJPZB8qJ9UCfh7pb20X0v5 QTusUfbl7qHvPYcTN8hWTJTZYc8L4rhsR8LGUfngvrCvdzfa1Ae5+GO2wkBq6gROg5eM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mIB8c-0004Gw-Lz; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:41:26 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:41:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 03 Jan 2013 02:17:18 +0200") Message-ID: <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: >> You can think of this as moving through the "future history" list. > > "future history" is a misnomer. > >> There is no logical connection between the set of default values > > "default values" is [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: 13333@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: >> You can think of this as moving through the "future history" list. > > "future history" is a misnomer. > >> There is no logical connection between the set of default values > > "default values" is a misnomer. > > There can be only one default value that it used when the user enters > empty input in the minibuffer. Other values are not "defaults". > > In most applications similar functionality is called "suggestions" > where a drop-down list of suggestions is displayed while the user > types a query into a text box. This feature is documented at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_suggest_drop-down_list > > Thus I propose to enhance the documentation by replacing the term > DEFAULTS with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS) where DEFAULT will retain > its original meaning of the value returned for empty input > and SUGGESTIONS is a list of suggestions available via `M-n'. I think this sounds like a good idea. "Future history" is cute and all, but it's not really helpful as a term -- especially when "suggestions" is as clear as it is. Anybody with any comments here? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 23 10:41:40 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Aug 2021 14:41:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42287 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIB8t-0003mi-Sw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 10:41:40 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44682) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIB8s-0003mE-Hc for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 10:41:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=J+D8feRcIMsWzrwE7Fk/ku3qRMhk5YugUScYNPf9XF8=; b=hGkpizKlu5olgZQQ1ABZ6hkkwK PI5sTjv9/e+/Cotj8PJ+m3SksAiZWyF15ZSBZ157nFpo7I6EA+USIu/qzh8W2w2sbBveNugmCmc5a eU/pqvF3MoQb+wxSHLrToxoYJaqwa+9OOZsjxD0xAtf0bMa8sLOs4l+mhjMbLr475eC0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mIB8k-0004H5-Qx for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:41:32 +0200 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:41:30 +0200 Message-Id: <87zgt8ql45.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #13333 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Mon, 23 Aug 2021 15:33:24 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Juri Linkov Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' Thread-Index: AQHXmCz4CYx09AdUiUOBqfoHdeSBIKuBNsMg Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 15:33:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnus.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnus.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 118b240c-c216-493c-e14d-08d9664b5899 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR10MB4177: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 118b240c-c216-493c-e14d-08d9664b5899 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Aug 2021 15:33:24.3182 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: bWoryJSAKbNNs9EGNIUvWEW8Bk1wqe1m9j2gIljmfd7uJRPK0+PVAD9C2c2r36Nbxv5jTnl9ZK1DeqvhKCjgVA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR10MB4177 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10085 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2107140000 definitions=main-2108230106 X-Proofpoint-GUID: w_Ln3QtzzpVr2Lk_30fOeThcZV4efPRO X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: w_Ln3QtzzpVr2Lk_30fOeThcZV4efPRO X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: "13333@debbugs.gnu.org" <13333@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I think this sounds like a good idea. "Future history" is cute and all, > but it's not really helpful as a term -- especially when "suggestions" > is as clear as it is. >=20 > Anybody with any comments here? You're asking for "more info" now? I already commented on that suggestion, eight years ago. Does that count? I agree with your suggestion. But please propose it to everyone at emacs-devel. And please leave this bug open, unless you also correct the problems it addresses. (Yes, if your suggestion is implemented that will change some of the text of this node. But let's please get all of the problems mentioned taken care of, whether or not the suggestion gets done.) And the bug report itself (from me), does that count? It details "multiple problems with this node." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 25 04:59:43 2021 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2021 08:59:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45695 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIol5-0005XK-LL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 04:59:43 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:32774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIol3-0005XA-KZ for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 04:59:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1629881980; bh=P5fnCulwIKSRi6c4pg6TiuxVMUnVVoMO+NwIJINTRYU=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=H8Cy5Fxl5vCHiNjvFtCUnrusEJHv74jHvEJG9aYkYX+MrAHNCHZ4IVodFOjjwP8x4 LkXbiWFL+8sutQPi98m+C0N9N7Jve++z8Hm/8o5S0Wpo+znIj2pRjn/MQ1vm12lFrn ug2V5Faoz3OxoLmiDA0sWhVv0OaMJOaH6d0ziXEiRx5Lk80ihR1qdmTII+YOaYiDc8 R5s+55ISPqPQLwOCkKczQ3kyAmpoMU63SmhlS1hEbihIoNSNrn2wmsqvreXIgdI2RU 2wyMpNitXtE+GY3pHuG/keOKtjHFQWvFvN6zdxdeIKwQhMLuVczKwg6xD6h94qxvYz vO60mKmVbsCjw== Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 08:59:39 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' In-Reply-To: <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> Message-ID: References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: Juri Linkov , 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> You can think of this as moving through the "future history" list. >> >> "future history" is a misnomer. >> >>> There is no logical connection between the set of default values >> >> "default values" is a misnomer. >> >> There can be only one default value that it used when the user enters >> empty input in the minibuffer. Other values are not "defaults". >> >> In most applications similar functionality is called "suggestions" >> where a drop-down list of suggestions is displayed while the user types >> a query into a text box. This feature is documented at >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_suggest_drop-down_list >> >> Thus I propose to enhance the documentation by replacing the term >> DEFAULTS with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS) where DEFAULT will retain its >> original meaning of the value returned for empty input and SUGGESTIONS >> is a list of suggestions available via `M-n'. > > I think this sounds like a good idea. "Future history" is cute and all, > but it's not really helpful as a term -- especially when "suggestions" > is as clear as it is. > > Anybody with any comments here? > FWIW, I do not think this is a good idea. Emacs is the only application I know which has a unified way to interact with history of past actions and suggestions for future actions. The name "future history" is not only cute, it is also an excellent one, from a mnemonical viewpoint, to remember that the M-n is the key binding that should be used to access those suggestions. What I would suggest instead is to add an explanation between parentheses that "future history" is what is called in some other applications "suggestions" (and possibly update the glossary accordingly). The idea of replacing DEFAULT with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS) is also not really optimal IMO. The problem is that DEFAULT would not only be the value that is used when the user hits RET with an empty input, it is also the first value inserted when hitting M-n, that is, it is also the first SUGGESTION. What I would suggest instead is to replace DEFAULTS with FUTURE-HISTORY, with an explanation that the first element of FUTURE-HISTORY is used when the user hist RET with an empty input. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 25 07:05:38 2021 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2021 11:05:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45901 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIqiw-0006Br-Ax for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 07:05:38 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35242) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIqir-0006Ba-1t for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 07:05:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=M8ZpyeFcXrl7hkv0ZGk+WsjjBuyJx7uFWDoaVpQkqNs=; b=MMpWLGWdVfB8Dqq2G5PX6kHmjW fdcsP5dA/87uALDleagFtBxq61aGzUBwriyFYULbwrlqRVC5U9KD+q3GNekpruLCALTjWG7BYLjrb 6H7uXHuP46rr8zHFpijYqjdEmhKoYwYL2KzS/7B8jfmF2M62OG5RgeksVWI490NY931w=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mIqig-0003E3-8t; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:05:26 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Gregory Heytings Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:05:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Gregory Heytings's message of "Wed, 25 Aug 2021 08:59:39 +0000") Message-ID: <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Gregory Heytings writes: > The idea of replacing DEFAULT with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS) is also not > really optimal IMO. I think the suggestion was replacing DEFAULTS with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS), though... Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: Juri Linkov , 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Gregory Heytings writes: > The idea of replacing DEFAULT with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS) is also not > really optimal IMO. I think the suggestion was replacing DEFAULTS with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS), though... > The problem is that DEFAULT would not only be the > value that is used when the user hits RET with an empty input, it is > also the first value inserted when hitting M-n, that is, it is also > the first SUGGESTION. I guess you could look at it that way... but I'd say that the first `M-n' gives you the default, and then you get the suggestions. > What I would suggest instead is to replace DEFAULTS with > FUTURE-HISTORY, with an explanation that the first element of > FUTURE-HISTORY is used when the user hist RET with an empty input. Hm... I dunno... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 25 08:25:18 2021 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2021 12:25:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46017 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIrxy-0008FJ-Qa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 08:25:18 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:33048) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mIrxt-0008Ew-IS for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 08:25:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1629894308; bh=MAg8Up+xIWbSIsyz4J4W35H+n/CrzXMPdKSSPaQnYII=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=eJCWq22uQ21ZT4Gr5Xzkgp+/7MyD7QGg0LDL1dhtwojDA0DHrW9Q1hTJHrracEjDR treG1SkwqaF9gsRhMI5D07CUK/k3GHIqwS8CPVHGpTrNne29qJpC2mXn+OIOLLuthp CB4YhY/Digo9U5RVNkIGmcoqw8fVh3wDqSd1MybFLmWaqmtfyjxcLaJq4Fegb0EDUf wyxnnOCDfEzpYEHh6n1bjdxivC5ACNIjsBlAvAeVVgCbGbXe8rP4w2fILz1DufQS9Q KD39kRCQpmQKpVcnxFIH81TMBO4C0vjRTqQ1YgvTjlr7apWXiGfFOpkvREaES96FCs No9hz9Elbr9Yw== Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:25:08 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' In-Reply-To: <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> Message-ID: References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: Juri Linkov , 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> The idea of replacing DEFAULT with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS) is also not >> really optimal IMO. > > I think the suggestion was replacing DEFAULTS with (DEFAULT . > SUGGESTIONS), though... > Yes, sorry, that was a typo, I meant "replacing DEFAULTS with (DEFAULT . SUGGESTIONS). >> The problem is that DEFAULT would not only be the value that is used >> when the user hits RET with an empty input, it is also the first value >> inserted when hitting M-n, that is, it is also the first SUGGESTION. > > I guess you could look at it that way... but I'd say that the first > `M-n' gives you the default, and then you get the suggestions. > Isn't the default already part of the suggestions? Unless I'm missing something, it's a suggested default. The current distinction between (past) "history" and "future history", where the first item of the future history is the default, and in which you can freely navigate back and forth with M-p and M-n is, much clearer IMO than a distinction between three kinds of items, (past) "history", default and suggestions. In fact, I don't understand what problem this would solve. I remember when I learned the concept of "future history" and its key binding, it was a "wow!" effect. Because of that it's possibly the only key binding I immediately remembered and never forgot. But perhaps that's just me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 22 16:42:20 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2021 20:42:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51834 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mT94N-000110-Ss for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:42:20 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:33972) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mT94K-00010k-TD for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:42:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=htHJdTky5ggQsg4czzpjkcNbSZnXsxBQ8Rjh51qo5AI=; b=rmBdxQwdCikCLzHcKAEt8dFmfA uT5AKmCPSqDbtq1J8zIwO7X5Tx7V3J2ffNnRz0VdRjQxpqUgq3y49UhfaxIBc8TYz10huAJrsGApo HiqNGhE1XhYuV29C1+KL5YdGa8WyYV3x+p9pfO8cvHIZ6M2wx6Vqcvp2V1OSd2sXf8EI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mT94C-00078G-5k for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 22:42:11 +0200 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 22:42:07 +0200 Message-Id: <87y27os5pc.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #13333 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 13333 - moreinfo quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 13333 - moreinfo quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 05 08:16:54 2022 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2022 12:16:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44620 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmaPe-0005sv-DZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 08:16:54 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52968) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmaPb-0005m5-9p for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 08:16:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ayEW3lB0koF5+yPSuyHjpC+jOt06nFvU5rYGGHEdXpI=; b=la849KUmXoeKRyVcaywhRy1HCh X3RRpchCNvzx/1H2u/JPRYhGSUR5cO6euFGxvVpnpQq/shaW1swy5/nBpr3lJlFZg26mPC4iuAs09 ByJoUc3gwUyKrG7Yi/Mznh08Z2nNl+VpdK9q5qLjt/lvCUaGYZ69NyfOgcW1wTmh4Zxs=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmaPR-0001a5-TK; Thu, 05 May 2022 14:16:44 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Gregory Heytings Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Oneohtrix Point Never's _Magic Oneohtrix Point Never_: "Tales From The Trash Stratum" Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 14:16:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Gregory Heytings's message of "Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:25:08 +0000") Message-ID: <874k24rx7c.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Gregory Heytings writes: > I remember when I learned the concept of "future history" and its key > binding, it was a "wow!" effect. Because of that it's possibly the > only key binding I immediately remembered and never forgo [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: Juri Linkov , 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Gregory Heytings writes: > I remember when I learned the concept of "future history" and its key > binding, it was a "wow!" effect. Because of that it's possibly the > only key binding I immediately remembered and never forgot. But > perhaps that's just me. I think the conclusion here is that there's no great enthusiasm for changing the terminology here (and we've been using the term "future history" slightly more actively in the last year), so I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 05 08:16:55 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2022 12:16:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44623 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmaPf-0005u2-Ng for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 08:16:55 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52984) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmaPe-0005pF-ML for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 08:16:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/IHsDROxCYlHwLr09JNp9fmxWiPkOvwlPt4Qp6+1it0=; b=meDlLLo+LUiST5WRcUph+9TS0c oRxIcDQpdIFok96+xvbQHQ0VSo0VoBEwjacAcug32kz66wQwIBvWDkPBZh00hI/CZvVjiTEddSLay 6/AxacbWGoh4kYGkPRIhc5pKL8S2464XJg9f33SrCOsHsDzCgWCSXONjEsy/xoZsuIxw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmaPW-0001aH-U1 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 14:16:48 +0200 Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 14:16:46 +0200 Message-Id: <8735horx75.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #13333 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 13333 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 13333 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 05 12:45:16 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2022 16:45:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmebM-0007pm-7F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 12:45:16 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:58706) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmebK-0007pc-Cd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 12:45:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45168) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmebJ-0001wA-PM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 12:45:14 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:41790) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmebI-0004Lk-8i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 12:45:13 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmebF-0002XC-R0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 18:45:09 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 12:45:02 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> <874k24rx7c.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:SHm66MA3MlD5jBNa9xS0Fo4Ksq0= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Gregory Heytings writes: > >> I remember when I learned the concept of "future history" and its key >> binding, it was a "wow!" effect. Because of that it's possibly the >> only key binding I immediately remembered and never forgot. But >> perhaps that's just me. > > I think the conclusion here is that there's no great enthusiasm for > changing the terminology here (and we've been using the term "future > history" slightly more actively in the last year), so I'm closing this > bug report. I think the emacs manual could be improved here. "future history" should be in the index (currently only "future history for file names" is) pointing to the Minibuffer History node where it is defined. Also perhaps "minibuffer suggestions", "minibuffer input suggestions" or some equivalents could be indexed to point to the same place to aid in people learning about this still little-known "wow!" feature. -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 06:21:29 2022 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 10:21:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47191 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmv5V-0005aW-OY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 06:21:29 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35446) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmv5T-0005aA-K8 for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 06:21:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=zz5qMQCFMXG5DaxMlsAJ6xPTRntwpKpcRh6jGeZJu8E=; b=JIbC6Fpl4IJjimAqI+igf+Abb+ xpjmKqUO6yKSuRiAG6SuOkSXcG/cgGZDvRys12aH6fgYl40u53r18ZBZEvye3BFwvWploIv/FcWmY AykO5U9WvwoRw6+z+qOb/BiPcOwHMhOLOT0sgKRSlBTiCXLnQ0eT79uyMJu9VuxEgsjs=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmv5L-0005Cy-24; Fri, 06 May 2022 12:21:21 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> <874k24rx7c.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEUEAQIvFRxjJjBu OEeVKzm6SVTUja3///9ttdmYAAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+YFBgoHNmwuBBsAAAGwSURB VDjLvdNdcpswEAdwyekBWJIDgCDvDSIHsLzKe1utboDuf4TufyG20xnPtC9dj7HNj/2QwM79zyDv ibp/gb+Oh8kP6xLiIdyS/PVrQIw2bmfX/QnejhRGfwfT0vl+CovzfVzoClOMifo+Rh5OwYCODOZL mPTISx85jscSDDjMOKaehQfnJojCrKdWPc+XPguP5KPBSKjFFpPCG/n3MQC6nnPZIWbJZ/I1TAPA z3JAUkh0qkt8A9AVLlkkjTdAT+as71W2RE81ymKldsB7zfKTnmusi0uBDqgoluWHwnuNCqELWZvk K7xUadGx7mp4Fcm1YgIx2NovhTnNOkxurVjGWaEB0oyfBoX1ddYerW0Kdl0tClLKyt+p38H2Q1qp m34CPKABBCAZkCYe7kCktg0js97KjugTmkHBuLrd7oAZUABYfRicp73UC/O2Axauj5CnyeAbVnsP p2k1OCnkIgcohXkHD9gU+DNmbgCHUl9gzTtgrE3qDRiwOR0LIHeAFsVp94w68jWBAWx17FFFfCBB weOagl1iuwUATXfozgD76wQDlHXoHj4O0KcVgLzf7ojGH+OStcgAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRl ADIwMjItMDUtMDZUMTA6MDc6NTQrMDA6MDCMq5tUAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTA1 LTA2VDEwOjA3OjU0KzAwOjAw/fYj6AAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Cure's _Pornography (1)_: "A Strange Day" Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 12:21:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Howard Melman's message of "Thu, 05 May 2022 12:45:02 -0400") Message-ID: <87h763neqr.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Howard Melman writes: > I think the emacs manual could be improved here. > > "future history" should be in the index (currently only > "future history for file names" is) pointing to the > Minibuffer History node where it [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Howard Melman writes: > I think the emacs manual could be improved here. > > "future history" should be in the index (currently only > "future history for file names" is) pointing to the > Minibuffer History node where it is defined. > > Also perhaps "minibuffer suggestions", "minibuffer input > suggestions" or some equivalents could be indexed to point > to the same place to aid in people learning about this still > little-known "wow!" feature. Sure, makes sense. Could you come up with a patch for this? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 09:41:09 2022 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 13:41:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47520 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmyCj-0007bd-7C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 09:41:09 -0400 Received: from mail-qv1-f43.google.com ([209.85.219.43]:39547) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmyCi-0007bQ-8L for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 09:41:08 -0400 Received: by mail-qv1-f43.google.com with SMTP id kj8so5414083qvb.6 for <13333@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 06 May 2022 06:41:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=TW7LDHjybuoSg7TLjA1yVB3nuzNks1oZHDfXnmS56aU=; b=MQWd7QyazU6dJwAc93JMMYlFNXFgJ2Cda3DAHuV63jzv3vpdiDpjrlrUpjhBNEGvBo 2OWC4OerQi0wvtbMUvNaDeFpQ0d2WnQ/jo/b3h0nLOrDAOLow1va4JuXWhDipqpJ1RaF eI6fHpoUDogmjDCSM9JkshhFGsSDOEznfuJnAbLj55Z4NOlQH3ZF2Nx8dpvrhbjLYj1t 6GDxBlzTqtBfmgEEvp5F+JCzWjj61B7+2Jm6O/TMwPaGLt8iLve1Oy0J/HMXrnxJs8ki IMgTnA9NpoK4mpqdE1TlocW2tLR5LSqBnV+aIL5U1p8aFIILUravcq7SwFuqgOD/UlP9 aUsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=TW7LDHjybuoSg7TLjA1yVB3nuzNks1oZHDfXnmS56aU=; b=NFspM/6nsd0Oh6qb0vJm/UIcRdP459zMDAX/8fPKHcgOCfYnF4gB6McW9EzJxFZTDa tIJOxaRsk2oBH7CyBPBscs3YHyUdHEaogoz6X5pd+ld6JjUzsa6Ng61a5V+iYNhf6JyW xAdu7lNIa5O2as+7UBdqsNcR4QQVnwPn8dDWg76nj+Nf9nBBunaRpOtoh/LpSAo+SCF+ DoqvMLR5Plph1OegRJAOzYzg9Nuz2nWmHqEBEuV6BykbGhtjrXT7iFhtZhdoo9225sLm CR8M66axLfkbXnDAa+VtrizbJDeAwEZS93OOsuZyOH+/39vJdg353beD1M+5jHmqXrbE IYiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533hs+qLpVnDZnu8Pk0KiwC66fZl5vRq8ym7Wg1UaepxVFrbMsjN uen3OFiMDHzsNYvzX6K0f63R9aqMouM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxMY40gM5RFnJRu77aDfW79NzBdQKAjvMC8Q8Zlsmidle+CWj7VMRdwzgHjh9uFceyerBJ8kg== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:5a03:0:b0:456:5533:4ab1 with SMTP id ei3-20020ad45a03000000b0045655334ab1mr2647122qvb.24.1651844462611; Fri, 06 May 2022 06:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-108-26-204-101.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j5-20020ac84045000000b002f39b99f6a1sm2925897qtl.59.2022.05.06.06.41.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 May 2022 06:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' From: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <87h763neqr.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 09:40:59 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> <874k24rx7c.fsf@gnus.org> <87h763neqr.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On May 6, 2022, at 6:21 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > Howard Melman writes: > >> I think the emacs manual could be improved here. >> >> "future history" should be in the index (currently only >> "future history for file names" is) pointing to the >> Minibuffer History node where it is defined. >> >> Also perhaps "minibuffer suggestions", "minibuffer input >> suggestions" or some equivalents could be indexed to point >> to the same place to aid in people learning about this still >> little-known "wow!" feature. > > Sure, makes sense. Could you come up with a patch for this? I'm sorry no, I don't build my own emacs, don't have the source, and haven't signed copyright over. It should just be a couple of @cindex calls in mini.texi @cindex future history @cindex minibuffer suggestions Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 06 09:58:02 2022 Received: (at 13333) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 May 2022 13:58:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49323 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmyT4-0008Vl-8L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 09:58:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42756) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmyT2-0008VR-3X for 13333@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 06 May 2022 09:58:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45722) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmySw-0007Kr-Ks; Fri, 06 May 2022 09:57:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=sjegDeHA3TGo0EUP1o2hWxYKvNt1+KH0A/sg1FpYC2Y=; b=oBBU3O/RgV9K 4toxSMTc4Ba0g/F2CoZx0hxG4wTMPVAzPP6hJaD2Z6lXCBQIunvpw/SI60/1Rqnp/2QjJIPKsI73Q U8c+fEUV3mb0eJooNI4QC3XWqvm4jkkpMN1cYSz2VP0i1/989i65EjEPTq6GxJCkVRZA6cW5ZzC8j IgA5PfS59YqrKVmYi3Pu7OKA1IHhahmsjzXbOLQ9qP06BYlvLxcdrxliBCw3xQeeYwjpg+NsCdcJ4 GA8zbd9grARPrh7U4I9WQ4Ro+aKLm0tJchtwFYXUhcUQwikH0Ekmupw+myIHwcNp5w6ssLpO4mfWW TCYG5Vz7nyAy4sMYSYCJjQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4214 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmySw-0007VX-3i; Fri, 06 May 2022 09:57:54 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 16:57:41 +0300 Message-Id: <831qx6227e.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: (message from Howard Melman on Fri, 6 May 2022 09:40:59 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> <874k24rx7c.fsf@gnus.org> <87h763neqr.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 13333@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Howard Melman > Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 09:40:59 -0400 > > > Sure, makes sense. Could you come up with a patch for this? > > I'm sorry no, I don't build my own emacs, don't have the source, > and haven't signed copyright over. It should just be a couple > of @cindex calls in mini.texi > > @cindex future history > @cindex minibuffer suggestions That's not how good index entries are (or should be) added. One needs to think of subjects potential readers will have in mind when they are looking for the indexed text. With this in mind, I wonder who would think about "minibuffer suggestions" in conjunction with this material? I wouldn't, because "minibuffer suggestions" tells nothing to me about what it alludes to. "Suggestions" is not a good word to describe this feature. As for "future history", if we want it, it should _replace_ the existing index entry, because they both lead to almost the same text, and it is not useful to have several index entries that begin with the same text and lead to the same page of the manual. 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[108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o7-20020a05620a110700b0069fc13ce205sm2425175qkk.54.2022.05.06.07.54.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 May 2022 07:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#13333: 24.3.50; (emacs) `Minibuffer History' From: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <831qx6227e.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 10:54:14 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <691C85CB-C07B-4C06-9704-BB6A79606D1E@gmail.com> References: <871ue33z2w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <871r6krzot.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1ehlr7y.fsf@gnus.org> <874k24rx7c.fsf@gnus.org> <87h763neqr.fsf@gnus.org> <831qx6227e.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13333 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 13333@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > On May 6, 2022, at 9:57 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Cc: 13333@debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Howard Melman >> Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 09:40:59 -0400 >> >>> Sure, makes sense. Could you come up with a patch for this? >> >> I'm sorry no, I don't build my own emacs, don't have the source, >> and haven't signed copyright over. It should just be a couple >> of @cindex calls in mini.texi >> >> @cindex future history >> @cindex minibuffer suggestions > > That's not how good index entries are (or should be) added. One needs > to think of subjects potential readers will have in mind when they are > looking for the indexed text. With this in mind, I wonder who would > think about "minibuffer suggestions" in conjunction with this > material? I wouldn't, because "minibuffer suggestions" tells nothing > to me about what it alludes to. "Suggestions" is not a good word to > describe this feature. > > As for "future history", if we want it, it should _replace_ the > existing index entry, because they both lead to almost the same text, > and it is not useful to have several index entries that begin with the > same text and lead to the same page of the manual. I disagree. I was responding to the previous comments in this bug that: > In most applications similar functionality is called "suggestions" > "Future history" is cute and all, but it's not really helpful as a term -- > especially when "suggestions" is as clear as it is. The original bug offered: "default input", "default input value" "default minibuffer input" which I think are also good. So while you might not think of "minibuffer suggestions" it seems others would. I would. I'd mostly be fine with having these replace the existing index entries for: @cindex future history for file names @cindex minibuffer defaults for file names but I would prefer they didn't. Just because they "begin with the same text" doesn't mean they're useless. They end with different text and when one searches for "file name" in the index getting directed to either of these is quite useful. TBH I think the text itself could be expanded a bit. I'd like to see: "Emacs tries fetching from a list of default arguments: values that you are likely to enter, typically text found near point." Howard From unknown Mon Jun 16 23:45:35 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2022 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator