From unknown Tue Jun 24 05:11:21 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#13141 <13141@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#13141 <13141@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' Reply-To: bug#13141 <13141@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:11:21 +0000 retitle 13141 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default fo= r `report-emacs-bug' reassign 13141 emacs submitter 13141 "Drew Adams" severity 13141 wishlist tag 13141 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 11:02:03 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 16:02:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37302 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSHS-0002Nw-BT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:02:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44544) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSHP-0002NV-2E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:01:59 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSGd-0003l0-IX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:01:17 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:43223) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSGd-0003kv-G3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:01:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55871) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSGT-0007m9-Us for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:01:11 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSGS-0003jD-Hy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:01:01 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24315) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSGS-0003j7-Bg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:01:00 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBBG0weU015153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:00:59 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBBG0v4f017872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:00:58 GMT Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBBG0vhr032413 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:00:57 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.109) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:00:57 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:00:52 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3XuLH297bn67P2TYipjb2CqLlBVA== X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) Enhancement request: Let users customize the info that is included by default in the bug-report editing buffer (*unsent mail to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org*). Be able to include/exclude any set of the main entries (which start at col 0): * Emacs version info * Important settings * Major mode * Minor modes * Recent input * Recent messages * Load-path shadows * Features The default behavior (without customization) should of course be to include all of these entries/fields. But give users a customization choice, so they need not manually remove the fields they generally prefer not to include. And add commands to the Field menu to insert each of these entries. So if a user customizes to, say, not include field `Recent input' by default, s?he could nevertheless easily include this field by choosing it from the Field menu. And just as for the currently existing Field menu items, add key equivalents. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-12-07 on MS-W7-DANI Bzr revision: 111150 eggert@cs.ucla.edu-20121207175317-wxhrqxpp0173whq0 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -Ic:/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.10/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.10/src -Ic:/emacs/libs/libpng-1.2.37-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/zlib-1.2.5 -Ic:/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/libxml2-2.7.8-w32-bin/include/libxml2 -Ic:/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9-w32-bin/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/libiconv-1.9.2-1-lib/include' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 11:13:26 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 16:13:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37309 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSSU-0002dq-4X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:13:26 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f44.google.com ([209.85.219.44]:41202) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSSR-0002dh-B0 for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:13:24 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id n5so3633544oag.3 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:12:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=2W61Z2HsFNZassC1MEOrnamMTTMkjE/DLjqDhKPwxNY=; b=eC/ZVq79jO5ISrODzFSBL3v4rTBTV3XVnRCbOGdU7J9mtApvPH2GHdDG5S8O9BAn4Q zbnpOzwuXRdgANpDA8Wl8PM0ggmxd47EFrv3vbul30s3bnEGbqe5p1XJ0VfznuPY5j9L S5SxnekerAXh0fsPY8VKeCbGwI9hY0ZXN7rDBt0sXGHvN8py2gpZIqHUUwG4cuTGjkeg wm3qba2L62Zjig1DKhFN3AAQyFMWwCN5h4cO6Ou1/bnpXkQPtUcyxuJ5IsBv4QADc0Nz hg9h8ySxNLdONpWIXuqN3tUol8qeS1i7D0R35PH3Ramzv9h6oEnGTrWHMKh4jaFpZWko +/5Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.116.6 with SMTP id js6mr9439088obb.82.1355242360908; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:12:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.11.39 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:12:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:12:40 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' From: Dani Moncayo To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) > Be able to include/exclude any set of the main entries (which > start at col 0): > > * Emacs version info > * Important settings > * Major mode > * Minor modes > * Recent input > * Recent messages > * Load-path shadows > * Features As a related note, I think it's pointless to send the below text as part of bug reports: This bug report will be sent to the Bug-GNU-Emacs mailing list and the GNU bug tracker at debbugs.gnu.org. Please check that the From: line contains a valid email address. After a delay of up to one day, you should receive an acknowledgment at that address. Please write in English if possible, as the Emacs maintainers usually do not have translators for other languages. Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug, and the precise symptoms of the bug. If you can, give a recipe starting from `emacs -Q': This information is only useful for the user who is about to write a bug report; it's useless for the rest of people, so IMO it should _not_ be sent. -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 11:19:11 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 16:19:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37337 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSY2-0002nB-OE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:19:11 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:40275) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSY0-0002n4-RN for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:19:09 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBBGIPhF023111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:18:26 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBBGIOSc015022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:18:25 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBBGIOfu009407; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:18:24 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.109) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:18:24 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Dani Moncayo'" References: Subject: RE: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:18:19 -0800 Message-ID: <59555D7DC631486F944E7232AADD6D4A@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3Xulj1RnZSpwEtQtiG7uqjSSWD/gAAHmUw X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > As a related note, I think it's pointless to send the below text as > part of bug reports: > > This bug report will be sent to... > > This information is only useful for the user who is about to write a > bug report; it's useless for the rest of people, so IMO it should > _not_ be sent. At least on MS Windows, at least using my mail client, that information is not sent. I've always wondered why I sometimes see it in a bug report. In my context, at least, that text is not included in what is pasted when I hit C-v in my mail-client message, after using C-c C-c in Emacs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 11:24:55 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 16:24:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37351 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSdb-0002wG-EW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:24:55 -0500 Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:62731) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSdY-0002w8-W3 for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:24:53 -0500 Received: by mail-ob0-f172.google.com with SMTP id za17so3482854obc.3 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:24:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=YSPfv25LMwZF8CTJUh3VCwCWvKXlxq2rr2EUkbFiKNE=; b=0EpZHTnrpyFp/ld93yA9/s4Kc3qAHXGhvnA4qB4E+ZI5Qe+cJLHX2rPWnV/8bO6TmX NE+d6dhwmWPpqVkRMTZ6SSyi3hBKGS7gUfBVOCsy8Uj2n2CJYZK6RzwIL4pF98mAgyj1 JjKI6x6jy+VK8QcZcYMts3t7vWBPVu+5zOdGVp6+gPHvfWW5LMOxYDgJowIIwsOKn63/ PAdQc2PT3KDaTQXdXS4BHQzW/w7QcExoHPlYS//IKhw1RuZ2pfwTNQYGSt0sLoGgitiB hGQvgjcJ5CAkqlDSGQ+IM/qviPMBwweOTBTDTXVBRNuBsl0mOkinypTFqYJcqovH98p0 Xymw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.146.13 with SMTP id sy13mr9543337obb.45.1355243050668; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.11.39 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:24:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <59555D7DC631486F944E7232AADD6D4A@us.oracle.com> References: <59555D7DC631486F944E7232AADD6D4A@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:24:10 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' From: Dani Moncayo To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) >> As a related note, I think it's pointless to send the below text as >> part of bug reports: >> >> This bug report will be sent to... >> >> This information is only useful for the user who is about to write a >> bug report; it's useless for the rest of people, so IMO it should >> _not_ be sent. > > At least on MS Windows, at least using my mail client, that information is not > sent. I've always wondered why I sometimes see it in a bug report. > > In my context, at least, that text is not included in what is pasted when I hit > C-v in my mail-client message, after using C-c C-c in Emacs. Ah, well, so far I've always copied & pasted manually the text from the Emacs buffer to my email program (the browser). If Emacs already discard that text, then ok, that's TRT. :) -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 11:28:59 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 16:28:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37355 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiShX-00032Z-30 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:28:59 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:32793) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiShV-00032S-NJ for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:28:58 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBBGSENt018019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:28:15 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBBGSCuO019828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:28:13 GMT Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBBGSC7I018802; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:28:12 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.109) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:28:12 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Dani Moncayo'" References: <59555D7DC631486F944E7232AADD6D4A@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:28:07 -0800 Message-ID: <4027FF1D175C478E8072FCAADFC34AC4@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3Xu/Oi2wMIV0/yR1e/BvFvD7zcLgAACktg X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > Ah, well, so far I've always copied & pasted manually the text from > the Emacs buffer to my email program (the browser). If Emacs already > discard that text, then ok, that's TRT. :) I use C-c C-c in the editing buffer. That automatically opens a new Outlook message that is addressed for bug reporting. It has a single line of text in the message body that tells me that I can paste (e.g. using C-v) my bug-report text into the message body. I select that line of text and hit C-v to replace it with my report. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 11:30:13 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 16:30:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37359 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSii-00035U-FD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:30:13 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:62260) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSig-00035N-Kp for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:30:10 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAG6Zu09soXOY/2dsb2JhbABEtBGBCIIVAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kE4gJBboJiyGFIwOIQppxgViDB4FB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="209607150" Received: from 108-161-115-152.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([108.161.115.152]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 11 Dec 2012 11:29:28 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A408558C73; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:29:27 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' Message-ID: References: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:29:27 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:00:52 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > Enhancement request: Let users customize the info that is included > by default in the bug-report editing buffer > (*unsent mail to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org*). FWIW, I find most of those info useless to me. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 11:38:15 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 16:38:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSqV-0003Ov-1H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:38:15 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:50382) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiSqT-0003Oo-6m for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:38:14 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBBGbTDh016301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:37:30 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBBGbTAA028314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:37:29 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBBGbS3q026950; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:37:28 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.109) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:37:28 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: Subject: RE: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:37:23 -0800 Message-ID: <512201C993544045B611027103D19002@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3XvLVZ/hPzhzD8TMCucKGvNB2iZQAABxWw X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > > Enhancement request: Let users customize the info that is included > > by default in the bug-report editing buffer > > (*unsent mail to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org*). > > FWIW, I find most of those info useless to me. I cannot speak to how useful some of that info might be to Emacs Dev. (But I agree that the text mostly represents noise.) My request here is for users to be able to express their preference in a general way, instead of having to remove such text each time, if they don't want it included. The problem, I guess, is that if this info is not captured from the session when reporting then it is difficult for Emacs Dev to obtain it later. You can't really ask a user to show you the last 200 messages from a session that might no longer exist. So I suppose there can be some value to some of that info some of the time, but it's not clear what the right approach is wrt what to include by default. Anyway, I have no objection to including it all by default. But we should let users set up their own default behavior wrt what gets included. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 14:11:06 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 19:11:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37516 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVEO-0008Fm-VW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:11:06 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f44.google.com ([209.85.220.44]:35414) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVEM-0008FT-UG for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:11:03 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id hz11so3025391pad.3 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:10:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=Y74QGxRYjGcXyCWh4GjjGg8nOcJVQH1Kuo4jrrKQaqI=; b=qsUasmem5jQdbL7yu99NVe5rIbo327cfrELq6/yMBoXv0xLzGtBOyfX1UhElnmatUa 1PbN7y22U2vKz6oYk43MX73pkN2IS1eK3VoO2ptJe67PAjpOUPtWt0ptWs2EPzsU/kri YwUSF1SroLW0JNsP+pIltWjyzdIo8HZyeHYRSNz1QSVdDhfubPAR2J+UP51J+m/4ArtH PtbHdqAkC3QKvNstic2KmZ0hC8LEfUBx9BuvpD+o08Wg7QYqvPd+rTs0N+Ups5IYcRfx 4Xni7tke6pWHxNMMLS7HA8T/BPQKKBJOGO7Q1iTr3pjiMwtZRNpFLu98DUexmyOZHIwV hCMw== Received: by 10.68.135.99 with SMTP id pr3mr37244948pbb.151.1355253019558; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.241.51.162]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id sy1sm14180243pbc.66.2012.12.11.11.10.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:10:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jambunathan K To: Dani Moncayo Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' References: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 00:43:23 +0530 In-Reply-To: (Dani Moncayo's message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:12:40 +0100") Message-ID: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Dani Moncayo writes: > As a related note, I think it's pointless to send the below text as > part of bug reports: > > This bug report will be sent to the Bug-GNU-Emacs mailing list > [...] > starting from `emacs -Q': > > This information is only useful for the user who is about to write a > bug report; it's useless for the rest of people, so IMO it should > _not_ be sent. M-x customize-variable RET report-emacs-bug-no-explanations RET -- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 14:20:11 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 19:20:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37521 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVNC-0008TR-CW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:20:10 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:39758) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVN9-0008TH-5o for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:20:08 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVMR-0001oH-Fl; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:19:23 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Dani Moncayo Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' References: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spook: supercomputer USCODE Lon Horiuchi NWO Cohiba doctrine X-Ran: Cbl'x/3fO56`]7`77aWl<6$z$LG:,!}o19;8"&KX2h2\S+sfMl'?S.FNk0:BC&X54 (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Wed, 12 Dec 2012 00:43:23 +0530") Message-ID: <82mwxkjt1g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) >> This bug report will be sent to the Bug-GNU-Emacs mailing list >> [...] >> starting from `emacs -Q': >> >> This information is only useful for the user who is about to write a >> bug report; it's useless for the rest of people, so IMO it should >> _not_ be sent. It isn't sent. There is a hook that strips it out, but it is easy to defeat it, which is why you sometimes see it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 14:28:39 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 19:28:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37529 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVVO-0000Em-SB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:28:39 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:19774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVVM-0000Ef-Pq for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:28:37 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBBJRqlj027692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:27:53 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBBJRphT025124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:27:51 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBBJRp0U003452; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:27:51 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.109) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:27:50 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Jambunathan K'" , "'Dani Moncayo'" References: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> Subject: RE: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:27:45 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3X0yo4i8+jOvYzR9Gcy0aBfJBQzwAAEkIg X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > M-x customize-variable RET report-emacs-bug-no-explanations RET In my request, it would not be simply a boolean, as suggested by the name you used. Users would be able to pick and choose which fields they want to include. Something like this: (defcustom report-emacs-bug-included-fields '(version settings major-mode minor-modes recent-input recent-messages load-shadows features) "Fields to include by default for command `report-emacs-bug'. The fields are included automatically in the buffer where you edit your bug report." :type '(set (const :tag "Emacs version info" version) (const :tag "Important settings" settings) (const :tag "Major mode" major-mode) (const :tag "Minor modes" minor-modes) (const :tag "Recent input" recent-input) (const :tag "Recent messages" recent-messages) (const :tag "Load-path shadows" load-shadows) (const :tag "Features" features)) :group 'convenience) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 14:35:46 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 19:35:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37552 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVcH-0000Rg-RX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:35:46 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:40054) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVcF-0000Rb-NI for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:35:44 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAG6Zu09soXOY/2dsb2JhbABEsEiDSYEIghUBAQQBViMFCwsOJhIUGA0kiBwFugmQRAOIQppxgViDBw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="209629698" Received: from 108-161-115-152.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([108.161.115.152]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 11 Dec 2012 14:35:00 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B7FB458C73; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:34:59 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' Message-ID: References: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> <82mwxkjt1g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:34:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: <82mwxkjt1g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:19:23 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > It isn't sent. There is a hook that strips it out, but it is easy to > defeat it, which is why you sometimes see it. I've just changed this text to be a display text-property, so you can see it, but it's not really part of the buffer: copy&paste into another application will not copy it and it doesn't need to be stripped explicitly before sending. IOW it now requires extra work to keep the text, instead of requiring extra work to remove it. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 14:45:49 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 19:45:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37571 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVm1-0001bV-0q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:45:49 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:40208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVly-0001bI-Ks; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:45:47 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TiVlH-0000y0-Ak; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:45:03 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for `report-emacs-bug' References: X-Spook: Delta Force bce Qaddafi Soviet pink noise terrorist ASLET X-Ran: "t(7,5p^]"UxQQ|I.z?|G7xkaI.Sl&.imPvW`Ve31_}|8VQa%L`:s{4"ibsTbRKSFK&HVS X-Hue: blue X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:45:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:00:52 -0800") Message-ID: <9k62485q68.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) tags 13141 wontfix stop "Drew Adams" wrote: > Enhancement request: Let users customize the info that is included > by default in the bug-report editing buffer There is no need for such complexity. You don't have to faithfully use emacs -Q; M-x report-emacs-bug for each of your 1000+ bug reports, you can just mail bug-gnu-emacs and make your own call as to what info is needed. For example, it is obvious that none of the boilerplate information has any relevance to this request. And configuration options have no relevance to doc bugs, etc. If you don't want to make that call, then accept the defaults and move on. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 11 15:00:51 2012 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2012 20:00:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37607 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiW0Y-0002rl-LM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:00:51 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:47095) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TiW0V-0002rc-6G for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:00:48 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBBK03o8028444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:00:04 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBBK02le006292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:00:02 GMT Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBBK01vu028583; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:00:02 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.109) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:00:01 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Glenn Morris'" , <13141@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <9k62485q68.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Subject: [PATCH]: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for`report-emacs-bug' Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:59:56 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D2_01CDD797.09FAFE50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <9k62485q68.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3X2BNHJXKfjoCbSyeFSD3YM0AsuQAAbAgQ X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01CDD797.09FAFE50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > tags 13141 wontfix > stop > > "Drew Adams" wrote: > > > Enhancement request: Let users customize the info that is included > > by default in the bug-report editing buffer > > There is no need for such complexity. > You don't have to faithfully use emacs -Q; M-x > report-emacs-bug for each > of your 1000+ bug reports, you can just mail bug-gnu-emacs > and make your > own call as to what info is needed. For example, it is > obvious that none > of the boilerplate information has any relevance to this request. > And configuration options have no relevance to doc bugs, etc. > If you don't want to make that call, then accept the defaults and move > on. This is not about me. (Is it about you, perhaps?) Attached is a patch. ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01CDD797.09FAFE50 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="emacsbug.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="emacsbug.patch" diff -c emacsbug.el emacsbug-patched-2012-12-11.el=0A= *** emacsbug.el Tue Dec 11 11:41:54 2012=0A= --- emacsbug-patched-2012-12-11.el Tue Dec 11 11:53:46 2012=0A= ***************=0A= *** 58,63 ****=0A= --- 58,81 ----=0A= :group 'emacsbug=0A= :type 'boolean)=0A= =0A= + (defcustom report-emacs-bug-included-fields '(version settings = major-mode=0A= + minor-modes recent-input=0A= + recent-messages = load-shadows=0A= + features)=0A= + "Fields to include by default for command `report-emacs-bug'.=0A= + The fields are included automatically in the buffer where you edit=0A= + your bug report."=0A= + :type '(set=0A= + (const :tag "Emacs version info" version)=0A= + (const :tag "Important settings" settings)=0A= + (const :tag "Major mode" major-mode)=0A= + (const :tag "Minor modes" minor-modes)=0A= + (const :tag "Recent input" recent-input)=0A= + (const :tag "Recent messages" recent-messages)=0A= + (const :tag "Load-path shadows" load-shadows)=0A= + (const :tag "Features" features))=0A= + :group 'convenience)=0A= + =0A= ;; User options end here.=0A= =0A= (defvar report-emacs-bug-orig-text nil=0A= ***************=0A= *** 229,323 ****=0A= (let ((txt (delete-and-extract-region (1+ user-point) (point))))=0A= (insert (propertize "\n" 'display txt)))=0A= =0A= ! (insert "\n\nIn " (emacs-version) "\n")=0A= ! (if (stringp emacs-bzr-version)=0A= ! (insert "Bzr revision: " emacs-bzr-version "\n"))=0A= ! (if (fboundp 'x-server-vendor)=0A= ! (condition-case nil=0A= ! ;; This is used not only for X11 but also W32 and others.=0A= ! (insert "Windowing system distributor `" (x-server-vendor)=0A= ! "', version "=0A= ! (mapconcat 'number-to-string (x-server-version) ".") "\n")=0A= ! (error t)))=0A= ! (let ((lsb (with-temp-buffer=0A= ! (if (eq 0 (ignore-errors=0A= ! (call-process "lsb_release" nil '(t nil)=0A= ! nil "-d")))=0A= ! (buffer-string)))))=0A= ! (if (stringp lsb)=0A= ! (insert "System " lsb "\n")))=0A= ! (when (and system-configuration-options=0A= ! (not (equal system-configuration-options "")))=0A= ! (insert "Configured using:\n `configure "=0A= ! system-configuration-options "'\n\n")=0A= ! (fill-region (line-beginning-position -1) (point)))=0A= ! (insert "Important settings:\n")=0A= ! (mapc=0A= ! (lambda (var)=0A= ! (let ((val (getenv var)))=0A= ! (if val (insert (format " value of $%s: %s\n" var val)))))=0A= ! '("EMACSDATA" "EMACSDOC" "EMACSLOADPATH" "EMACSPATH"=0A= ! "LC_ALL" "LC_COLLATE" "LC_CTYPE" "LC_MESSAGES"=0A= ! "LC_MONETARY" "LC_NUMERIC" "LC_TIME" "LANG" "XMODIFIERS"))=0A= ! (insert (format " locale-coding-system: %s\n" = locale-coding-system))=0A= ! (insert (format " default enable-multibyte-characters: %s\n"=0A= ! (default-value 'enable-multibyte-characters)))=0A= ! (insert "\n")=0A= ! (insert (format "Major mode: %s\n"=0A= ! (format-mode-line=0A= ! (buffer-local-value 'mode-name from-buffer)=0A= ! nil nil from-buffer)))=0A= ! (insert "\n")=0A= ! (insert "Minor modes in effect:\n")=0A= ! (dolist (mode minor-mode-list)=0A= ! (and (boundp mode) (buffer-local-value mode from-buffer)=0A= ! (insert (format " %s: %s\n" mode=0A= ! (buffer-local-value mode from-buffer)))))=0A= ! (insert "\n")=0A= ! (insert "Recent input:\n")=0A= ! (let ((before-keys (point)))=0A= ! (insert (mapconcat (lambda (key)=0A= ! (if (or (integerp key)=0A= ! (symbolp key)=0A= ! (listp key))=0A= ! (single-key-description key)=0A= ! (prin1-to-string key nil)))=0A= ! (or recent-keys (recent-keys))=0A= ! " "))=0A= ! (save-restriction=0A= ! (narrow-to-region before-keys (point))=0A= ! (goto-char before-keys)=0A= ! (while (progn (move-to-column 50) (not (eobp)))=0A= ! (search-forward " " nil t)=0A= ! (insert "\n"))))=0A= ! (let ((message-buf (get-buffer "*Messages*")))=0A= ! (if message-buf=0A= ! (let (beg-pos=0A= ! (end-pos message-end-point))=0A= ! (with-current-buffer message-buf=0A= ! (goto-char end-pos)=0A= ! (forward-line -10)=0A= ! (setq beg-pos (point)))=0A= ! (insert "\n\nRecent messages:\n")=0A= ! (insert-buffer-substring message-buf beg-pos end-pos))))=0A= ! ;; After Recent messages, to avoid the messages produced by=0A= ! ;; list-load-path-shadows.=0A= ! (unless (looking-back "\n")=0A= (insert "\n"))=0A= ! (insert "\n")=0A= ! (insert "Load-path shadows:\n")=0A= ! (let* ((msg "Checking for load-path shadows...")=0A= ! (result "done")=0A= ! (shadows (progn (message "%s" msg)=0A= ! (condition-case nil (list-load-path-shadows t)=0A= ! (error=0A= ! (setq result "error")=0A= ! "Error during checking")))))=0A= ! (message "%s%s" msg result)=0A= ! (insert (if (zerop (length shadows))=0A= ! "None found.\n"=0A= ! shadows)))=0A= ! (insert (format "\nFeatures:\n%s\n" features))=0A= (fill-region (line-beginning-position 0) (point))=0A= ;; This is so the user has to type something in order to send = easily.=0A= (use-local-map (nconc (make-sparse-keymap) (current-local-map)))=0A= --- 247,349 ----=0A= (let ((txt (delete-and-extract-region (1+ user-point) (point))))=0A= (insert (propertize "\n" 'display txt)))=0A= =0A= ! (when (member 'version report-emacs-bug-included-fields)=0A= ! (insert "\n\nIn " (emacs-version) "\n")=0A= ! (if (stringp emacs-bzr-version)=0A= ! (insert "Bzr revision: " emacs-bzr-version "\n"))=0A= ! (if (fboundp 'x-server-vendor)=0A= ! (condition-case nil=0A= ! ;; This is used not only for X11 but also W32 and others.=0A= ! (insert "Windowing system distributor `" = (x-server-vendor)=0A= ! "', version "=0A= ! (mapconcat 'number-to-string (x-server-version) = ".") "\n")=0A= ! (error t)))=0A= ! (let ((lsb (with-temp-buffer=0A= ! (if (eq 0 (ignore-errors=0A= ! (call-process "lsb_release" nil '(t nil)=0A= ! nil "-d")))=0A= ! (buffer-string)))))=0A= ! (if (stringp lsb)=0A= ! (insert "System " lsb "\n")))=0A= ! (when (and system-configuration-options=0A= ! (not (equal system-configuration-options "")))=0A= ! (insert "Configured using:\n `configure "=0A= ! system-configuration-options "'\n\n")=0A= ! (fill-region (line-beginning-position -1) (point))))=0A= ! (when (member 'settings report-emacs-bug-included-fields)=0A= ! (insert "Important settings:\n")=0A= ! (mapc=0A= ! (lambda (var)=0A= ! (let ((val (getenv var)))=0A= ! (if val (insert (format " value of $%s: %s\n" var val)))))=0A= ! '("EMACSDATA" "EMACSDOC" "EMACSLOADPATH" "EMACSPATH"=0A= ! "LC_ALL" "LC_COLLATE" "LC_CTYPE" "LC_MESSAGES"=0A= ! "LC_MONETARY" "LC_NUMERIC" "LC_TIME" "LANG" "XMODIFIERS"))=0A= ! (insert (format " locale-coding-system: %s\n" = locale-coding-system))=0A= ! (insert (format " default enable-multibyte-characters: %s\n"=0A= ! (default-value 'enable-multibyte-characters)))=0A= ! (insert "\n"))=0A= ! (when (member 'major-mode report-emacs-bug-included-fields)=0A= ! (insert (format "Major mode: %s\n"=0A= ! (format-mode-line=0A= ! (buffer-local-value 'mode-name from-buffer)=0A= ! nil nil from-buffer)))=0A= ! (insert "\n"))=0A= ! (when (member 'minor-modes report-emacs-bug-included-fields)=0A= ! (insert "Minor modes in effect:\n")=0A= ! (dolist (mode minor-mode-list)=0A= ! (and (boundp mode) (buffer-local-value mode from-buffer)=0A= ! (insert (format " %s: %s\n" mode=0A= ! (buffer-local-value mode from-buffer)))))=0A= ! (insert "\n"))=0A= ! (when (member 'recent-input report-emacs-bug-included-fields)=0A= ! (insert "Recent input:\n")=0A= ! (let ((before-keys (point)))=0A= ! (insert (mapconcat (lambda (key)=0A= ! (if (or (integerp key)=0A= ! (symbolp key)=0A= ! (listp key))=0A= ! (single-key-description key)=0A= ! (prin1-to-string key nil)))=0A= ! (or recent-keys (recent-keys))=0A= ! " "))=0A= ! (save-restriction=0A= ! (narrow-to-region before-keys (point))=0A= ! (goto-char before-keys)=0A= ! (while (progn (move-to-column 50) (not (eobp)))=0A= ! (search-forward " " nil t)=0A= ! (insert "\n")))))=0A= ! (when (member 'recent-messages report-emacs-bug-included-fields)=0A= ! (let ((message-buf (get-buffer "*Messages*")))=0A= ! (if message-buf=0A= ! (let (beg-pos=0A= ! (end-pos message-end-point))=0A= ! (with-current-buffer message-buf=0A= ! (goto-char end-pos)=0A= ! (forward-line -10)=0A= ! (setq beg-pos (point)))=0A= ! (insert "\n\nRecent messages:\n")=0A= ! (insert-buffer-substring message-buf beg-pos end-pos))))=0A= ! ;; After Recent messages, to avoid the messages produced by=0A= ! ;; list-load-path-shadows.=0A= ! (unless (looking-back "\n")=0A= ! (insert "\n"))=0A= (insert "\n"))=0A= ! (when (member 'load-shadows report-emacs-bug-included-fields)=0A= ! (insert "Load-path shadows:\n")=0A= ! (let* ((msg "Checking for load-path shadows...")=0A= ! (result "done")=0A= ! (shadows (progn (message "%s" msg)=0A= ! (condition-case nil = (list-load-path-shadows t)=0A= ! (error=0A= ! (setq result "error")=0A= ! "Error during checking")))))=0A= ! (message "%s%s" msg result)=0A= ! (insert (if (zerop (length shadows))=0A= ! "None found.\n"=0A= ! shadows))))=0A= ! (when (member 'features report-emacs-bug-included-fields)=0A= ! (insert (format "\nFeatures:\n%s\n" features)))=0A= (fill-region (line-beginning-position 0) (point))=0A= ;; This is so the user has to type something in order to send = easily.=0A= (use-local-map (nconc (make-sparse-keymap) (current-local-map)))=0A= =0A= Diff finished. Tue Dec 11 11:54:47 2012=0A= ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01CDD797.09FAFE50-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 19 18:11:16 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2013 23:11:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40731 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwhZD-0003oJ-GL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:11:15 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:32285) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwhZB-0003oA-9L for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:11:14 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0JNAHUv025729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 23:10:17 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0JNAGB9013789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 23:10:17 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0JNAGYq025853; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:10:16 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:10:15 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: please review bug #13141 Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:10:09 -0800 Message-ID: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac32miCgr7UhWeGUSi+NajhGZWXN0A== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) This is about the info that gets automatically added to bug reports. Stefan granted that most of that info is anyway useless, to him at least. Jambunathan suggested a Boolean option to skip such info altogether. I provided a patch that lets users customize which info to include. Glenn simply tagged the bug `wontfix', saying "There is no need for such complexity." The patch is straightforward. Please reconsider it. Why not let users set the behavior they want for this? http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13141#43 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 19 18:22:49 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2013 23:22:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40745 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwhkP-00045y-4b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:22:49 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:21486) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwhkN-00045s-La for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:22:48 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0JNLpsr031535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 23:21:52 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0JNLo2U028193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 23:21:51 GMT Received: from abhmt105.oracle.com (abhmt105.oracle.com [141.146.116.57]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0JNLodc026778; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:21:50 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:21:50 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: please review bug #13141 Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:21:43 -0800 Message-ID: <107D1DF8F1544F1D86623A6F1B81FE5A@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: Ac32miCgr7UhWeGUSi+NajhGZWXN0AAAX0Dg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > Jambunathan suggested a Boolean option to skip such info altogether. I should have said that J. reminded that option `report-emacs-bug-no-explanations' does that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 19 18:28:00 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2013 23:28:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40750 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwhpP-0004DT-3j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:27:59 -0500 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:29476 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwhpM-0004DL-KH for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:27:58 -0500 Received: (qmail 70411 invoked by uid 3782); 19 Jan 2013 23:27:00 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9557F3A.dip.t-dialin.net [217.85.127.58]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 00:26:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 558 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Jan 2013 23:20:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 23:20:15 +0000 To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: please review bug #13141 Message-ID: <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Hi, Drew. On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 03:10:09PM -0800, Drew Adams wrote: > This is about the info that gets automatically added to bug reports. > Stefan granted that most of that info is anyway useless, to him at least. > Jambunathan suggested a Boolean option to skip such info altogether. > I provided a patch that lets users customize which info to include. > Glenn simply tagged the bug `wontfix', saying "There is no need for such > complexity." > The patch is straightforward. Please reconsider it. > Why not let users set the behavior they want for this? I have to side with Glenn here. We need to make Bug reporters' jobs as simple as possible. Sadly, there is a tendency for things which one _can_ configure to become things that one _must_ configure - we know all about this in Emacs - which would be most unfriendly for novice bug reporters. Let's keep this as simple as possible. > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13141#43 -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 19 19:00:55 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 00:00:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40769 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwiLG-00052z-3s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:00:55 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:24549) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwiLD-00052q-Am for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:00:52 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0JNxsOb018052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 23:59:55 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0JNxrGU014385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 23:59:54 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0JNxq5Y009989; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:59:52 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:59:52 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Alan Mackenzie'" References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> Subject: RE: please review bug #13141 Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:59:45 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> Thread-Index: Ac32nIMxxuDAyrcoSAWPWSQvycQ/nQAAxRtw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > > The patch is straightforward. Please reconsider it. > > Why not let users set the behavior they want for this? > > I have to side with Glenn here. We need to make Bug > reporters' jobs as simple as possible. Why not give the individual bug reporters a say in what they think is simple? Your idea of making their life easier might not be their idea. Why does giving other users a choice bother you? The default behavior would be the same as now. > Sadly, there is a tendency for things which one _can_ > configure to become things that one _must_ configure - I don't recognize any such tendency. Give one example. > we know all about this in Emacs Well I don't know about it. I've never seen the addition of a user option, with no change to the default behavior, require any user to configure that option. That's logically impossible. If you do nothing then there is no change in behavior. If you are unaware of the option then your life is as simple as before. If you are aware of it and IF you want to take advantage of it, then you might even make life simpler for yourself than before - but that's your choice. > - which would be most unfriendly for novice bug reporters. What would? Giving a choice to any user who wants it? > Let's keep this as simple as possible. Let's give _users_ the choice. Let's let them decide what is "as simple as possible" for themselves, individually. > > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13141#43 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 19 19:13:42 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 00:13:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40773 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwiXc-0005LE-7Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:13:41 -0500 Received: from mail-da0-f54.google.com ([209.85.210.54]:58487) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwiXX-0005L1-MZ for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:13:38 -0500 Received: by mail-da0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n2so2175592dad.41 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:12:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CxRyeQXBqtgvgZUJwr1FvVpD3jgfnk4zAMAF2mPUobY=; b=iKiNwCB9O2f/5T40654z1/p+NqY7iWFBvoVfHqyB5wm3MmI/P7qxTGQPzsP6fcWbcQ Njq+YHedRRaessZevCK9okgBC7ulcoO3P/E3pIW5fZo0eZAs1pa+GghnVjYePQm5PPcK kg2OFu+9Lc2x7EqYARNpDFVnOonAp6OD/d3mNoaGRNpJs02qYWiDkCN6vb0+Nq6xw9G6 tGiW6v+t9fC1ImtmdU5y2cRrEec655Rlr+K+uhjy0k2rK8Ci5jhF6uaYt+NHXCdWb9UH 3bHxpSGp+L1TGWQbwmU5YxpV52tEUE8gMWravns0nXLhIEvNj3Uqe38fgvx/O6kV2jM1 jS1g== X-Received: by 10.66.89.199 with SMTP id bq7mr36271585pab.26.1358640759909; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:12:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([124.117.12.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ay6sm6214459pab.30.2013.01.19.16.12.35 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:12:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 08:12:32 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: please review bug #13141 Message-Id: <20130120081232.8a55d623af176ffdc4ccab91@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 'Alan Mackenzie' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:59:45 -0800 "Drew Adams" wrote: > If you are unaware of > the option then your life is as simple as before. If you are aware of it and IF > you want to take advantage of it, then you might even make life simpler for > yourself than before - but that's your choice. I think so, too. -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 19 19:36:30 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 00:36:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twiti-0005sx-G5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:36:30 -0500 Received: from mail-lb0-f180.google.com ([209.85.217.180]:56794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twite-0005sn-My for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:36:28 -0500 Received: by mail-lb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id gj3so3598301lbb.11 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:35:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=NG3yK08fbOy37x9y7sG0pSUPPCg56LiWv4AdjdmLjEM=; b=A8ZQz1q08gxbRFfQfQVA9HmPVS/80ZQZBw6AOEOT6G+1cEcQk/v8cBDb5bBR5UNWHG B6NqLBL5m0op3V8aix/zajZqbeKgGpbWSnbwcljBTVBcblypG5sl1WIztU7ArHUtZgNj cHJeOx2vQ5ldqqUxGmqqZyOSsKwdw2RJNjmCCw9kpjRQrve5KimlR+rIFYyTxUA4SqvE L/9x9lcjgnu0+HMOch2wixNke9td3aZg74SvBUhPEnIlddwLJiXMynLd2RHXFotgrb5w WTBncgLoRl/V5FqplWjge6T5lff0OmLlG+d4U6p0Y3SB3bEMJL0tqXs2BwVmK6hFVEJo /Qiw== X-Received: by 10.152.46.12 with SMTP id r12mr10897891lam.15.1358642130736; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from SOL ([178.252.98.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b3sm3657861lbl.0.2013.01.19.16.35.27 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:35:28 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Gutov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13141: please review bug #13141 References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135__10998.9037890502$1358637091$gmane$org@us.oracle.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 04:35:24 +0400 In-Reply-To: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135__10998.9037890502$1358637091$gmane$org@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:10:09 -0800") Message-ID: <87ip6sofn7.fsf@yandex.ru> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > This is about the info that gets automatically added to bug reports. > > Stefan granted that most of that info is anyway useless, to him at least. > Jambunathan suggested a Boolean option to skip such info altogether. > > I provided a patch that lets users customize which info to include. > > Glenn simply tagged the bug `wontfix', saying "There is no need for such > complexity." > > > The patch is straightforward. Please reconsider it. > Why not let users set the behavior they want for this? Personally, I disagree that the user should choose what information to include. The report goes to Emacs maintainers, so they should pick the always-useful parts (say, the version, bzr revision and build options) and leave out the noise. While possibly still providing interactive commands allowing to insert the additional information in a follow-up email. I also think this is one of the parts of Emacs where backwards compatibility is the least important, so it's odd that the bug reporting interface hasn't changed much in years. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 19 19:56:10 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 00:56:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40784 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwjCk-0006LJ-4o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:56:10 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f48.google.com ([209.85.160.48]:35051) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwjCg-0006LA-Ip for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id wy12so1318736pbc.7 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:55:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DeBPNRnQEZiB3NYYErKFEQhjXjOfqkWFYZ82OjhCx3o=; b=CLY15NpPUiAAK7+BRiFBpK9roF1KTbBXzf0gtpojXrPr1I9LaxAYEETQuCpKYQFJ0C ibWlr1DAohmaE8WybNuH7TvUgxDPEsAvFeUkS+P+Xkr51S5c8giiheqPSpPjsTe37lRi OHNKD6hyYZpqSw6ZTEVVnveCy4TmJA9FCqbnABNEnbS8V/TRaxZQTyBvr4I32YuIlbs1 nxhv8esKje5Zght01DPDlrFTpjIrBNmgqIA7dmU+VymmU96q0oHbTG0zQk1jUCBrAPB5 mpdcEabpU6xUrLRWxI8Ws3VU2J42vrD7xXFyJ+uPJGOV+hLYBSu3GaidM3yt4S32GxPQ MEKw== X-Received: by 10.66.81.166 with SMTP id b6mr36438922pay.7.1358643308886; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:55:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([124.117.12.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f5sm6271644pav.22.2013.01.19.16.54.59 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:55:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 08:54:55 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao To: Dmitry Gutov Subject: Re: bug#13141: please review bug #13141 Message-Id: <20130120085455.93b0f44394a4db0ffcebd5c9@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87ip6sofn7.fsf@yandex.ru> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135__10998.9037890502$1358637091$gmane$org@us.oracle.com> <87ip6sofn7.fsf@yandex.ru> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 04:35:24 +0400 Dmitry Gutov wrote: > Personally, I disagree that the user should choose what information to > include. The report goes to Emacs maintainers, so they should pick the > always-useful parts (say, the version, bzr revision and build options) and > leave out the noise. In (info "(emacs) Checklist"): You may feel that some of the information inserted by `M-x report-emacs-bug' is not relevant, but unless you are absolutely sure it is best to leave it, so that the developers can decide for themselves. But *extensible and customizable* (and self-documenting) are the core of Emacs. Experienced users *know* that what information should be go to the Emacs developers. It also lightens the burden of Emacs developers. -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 19 20:04:23 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 01:04:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40788 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwjKh-0006Xm-EB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:04:23 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:46938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwjKf-0006Xf-6v for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:04:22 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0K13OQs019727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 01:03:25 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0K13NGs024273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 01:03:23 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0K13MeT022541; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:03:23 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:03:22 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Dmitry Gutov'" References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135__10998.9037890502$1358637091$gmane$org@us.oracle.com> <87ip6sofn7.fsf@yandex.ru> Subject: RE: bug#13141: please review bug #13141 Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:03:16 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87ip6sofn7.fsf@yandex.ru> Thread-Index: Ac32pg+UwSXOR4MrQlepC80DbAZqvQAAIwaQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > Personally, I disagree that the user should choose what information > to include. Too bad for you, then. The user already chooses that. As well s?he should. A user should _of course_ be able to choose what information s?he sends. This is about the information that is _automatically_ inserted into the report-preparation buffer. If the user does not want to send some of that info then s?he need not, even today, as Xue Fuqiao made clear. All my patch does is make it easier for a user to not send this or that info. > The report goes to Emacs maintainers, so they should pick the > always-useful parts The maintainers should pick the parts that they think should be provided _by default_, just as they do today. They cannot and should not pick, in place of the user, what the user actually sends. And one of the maintainers has already stated, FWIW, that he finds "most of those info useless". > (say, the version, bzr revision and build options) and leave > out the noise. One person's noise is another's important information. That's part of the point of providing this option: if a user so chooses, s?he can easily cut down on what s?he considers noise. Let users decide. Emacs proposes, users dispose. And I repeat, the default behavior - the information that is automatically included by default - does NOT change with this patch. > While possibly still providing interactive commands > allowing to insert the additional information in a follow-up email. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. Consider submitting an enhancement request for the addition of such commands. > I also think this is one of the parts of Emacs where backwards > compatibility is the least important, so it's odd that the > bug reporting interface hasn't changed much in years. You are welcome to submit an enhancement request to change the set of info that gets inserted by default. My patch is not so radical as what you are requesting. It maintains the status quo wrt that set of info - the default behavior. It simply makes it easy for a user to customize what which info gets inserted by default. There already is a user option, `report-emacs-bug-no-explanations', that turns it all off. My patch just gives users more control than an on/off switch. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 02:17:16 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 07:17:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9Y-0007wR-A6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:17:16 -0500 Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:39489) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9V-0007wG-5m for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:17:14 -0500 Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95429707F6; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:16:14 +0900 (JST) Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9F7FB1A3537; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:16:14 +0900 (JST) From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" To: "Drew Adams" Subject: RE: please review bug #13141 In-Reply-To: References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:16:14 +0900 Message-ID: <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 'Alan Mackenzie' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) Drew Adams writes: > Why not give the individual bug reporters a say in what they think > is simple? Your idea of making their life easier might not be > their idea. Why in the world do you think making life easier for bug *reporters* deserves precedence? The first principle of bug reporting is to get useful information for the debuggers. Over the 15 years that I've been responding to bug reports, I've had at least half a dozen cases where users deleted automatically added information which I then requested -- to no avail, since the reporters never responded. The cases where users fail to include useful and readily available information in plain ol' mail are legion. In general, users are notoriously poor judges of what information is useful. It might be useful to hide the automatically generated information in a MIME attachment, or add it at send time, and allow the user the option of displaying/editing it. > Let's give _users_ the choice. Let's let them decide what is "as > simple as possible" for themselves, individually. Bug reporting is not an individual activity. It is a community activity, and the needs of developers must take precedence over users' ideas of what's useful. If you think some information is unnecessary, argue it shouldn't be in the report in the first place, and get the developers to agree. Note that just because Stefan never uses the information doesn't mean that other developers don't. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 02:20:10 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 07:20:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40994 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwpCL-00080a-OR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:20:10 -0500 Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:39643) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwpCJ-00080S-Ik for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:20:08 -0500 Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688489708DE; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:19:10 +0900 (JST) Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3317F1A3537; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:19:10 +0900 (JST) From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" To: Xue Fuqiao Subject: Re: bug#13141: please review bug #13141 In-Reply-To: <20130120085455.93b0f44394a4db0ffcebd5c9@gmail.com> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135__10998.9037890502$1358637091$gmane$org@us.oracle.com> <87ip6sofn7.fsf@yandex.ru> <20130120085455.93b0f44394a4db0ffcebd5c9@gmail.com> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:19:10 +0900 Message-ID: <87mww45nkh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Drew Adams , Dmitry Gutov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Xue Fuqiao writes: > But *extensible and customizable* (and self-documenting) are the core > of Emacs. Experienced users *know* that what information should be go > to the Emacs developers. Experienced developers know that what experienced users "know" often enough just ain't so. The only case where users are in a good position to decide is about privacy-sensitive information that might be in traces or keystroke logs, etc. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 04:46:20 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 09:46:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41054 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwrTn-0002zK-KY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 04:46:20 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:36144) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwrTl-0002z8-NA for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 04:46:18 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0K9jJM9016028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:45:19 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0K9jIhp011977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:45:18 GMT Received: from abhmt107.oracle.com (abhmt107.oracle.com [141.146.116.59]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0K9jI47003230; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 03:45:18 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 01:45:18 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Glenn Morris'" References: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> <82mwxkjt1g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for`report-emacs-bug' Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 01:45:10 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac3X1rCis/9cj7mXTy6eD6bTCP9QSQfG1ytg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > I've just changed this text to be a display text-property, so you can > see it, but it's not really part of the buffer: copy&paste > into another application will not copy it and it doesn't need to be > stripped explicitly before sending. > IOW it now requires extra work to keep the text, instead of requiring > extra work to remove it. That change unfortunately breaks fitting the frame to the buffer (using my fit-frame.el), horribly. Can't you please find a different solution to whatever your change was trying to solve, a solution that has the text actually in the buffer so that it is measurable for things like fitting, as before? I don't think there was a real problem that you needed to solve. How many users actually copied the text, and how big a problem was their doing so? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 05:34:32 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 10:34:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41071 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwsER-00046D-HA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:34:32 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f51.google.com ([209.85.220.51]:63024) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwsEO-000463-Sq for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:34:29 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id fb11so2855807pad.38 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:33:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CjflIiruityv70kAwhBM6XQCGaYBYL9H7hliUFNBxV4=; b=W23VrPJrPZfQBEU2RA2SYkI+05Iu4WyLqhsuWjR2nSBrTi9VM3gEGNre/jr2SgHBv7 FodCty3njvWsjiloEoqa3Ps8dNDGkLZCKAFueij2Xagsp9zWZ0Psvfghyots/7m86WQD KOKQoJiP0UvpPZ7FNGmPTEcLpGfjxk5de/F4HtzlTDY3g/ouNWPP/QcJcItwRCFXVFIf EPDUEsG66kGn3xSToOtR/x7LuxZ2Y6qtWOj9QyDAUnmyHsny06TGm9T8QOVtoqaqCfMn K8oDuEdczPh05bTSOeBZk9BzGSV11te2W+j04xp9OYkUMRZU1uVp0TZgMyW7i8MO4kar nvRA== X-Received: by 10.66.72.198 with SMTP id f6mr38759612pav.42.1358678009627; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([124.117.12.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id vn2sm6565733pbc.31.2013.01.20.02.33.23 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:33:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 18:33:19 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Subject: Re: please review bug #13141 Message-Id: <20130120183319.4e82f61e57b27111d20f263f@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 'Alan Mackenzie' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:16:14 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote: > In general, users are > notoriously poor judges of what information is useful. But not all users. We can add some notice (or maybe warning) in the doc string of the user option and Emacs manual. It seems that bug reporting in XEmacs and SXEmacs manuals is a little poor: http://xemacs.org/Documentation/21.5/html/xemacs_30.html#SEC421 http://www.sxemacs.org/docs/sxemacs/Bugs.html#Bugs -- http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Bugs.html#Bugs From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 05:57:54 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 10:57:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41080 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twsb4-0004d2-AA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:57:54 -0500 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:41033 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twsb1-0004cs-9n for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:57:52 -0500 Received: (qmail 6157 invoked by uid 3782); 20 Jan 2013 10:56:52 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9556C9C.dip.t-dialin.net [217.85.108.156]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:56:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 3301 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Jan 2013 10:50:03 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:50:03 +0000 To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: please review bug #13141 Message-ID: <20130120105003.GA3091@acm.acm> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) Good Morning, Drew! On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 03:59:45PM -0800, Drew Adams wrote: > > > The patch is straightforward. Please reconsider it. > > > Why not let users set the behavior they want for this? > > I have to side with Glenn here. We need to make Bug > > reporters' jobs as simple as possible. > Why not give the individual bug reporters a say in what they think is simple? > Your idea of making their life easier might not be their idea. My model of bug reporter, right now, is somebody considering submitting their very first Emacs bug report > Why does giving other users a choice bother you? > The default behavior would be the same as now. I've not seen the patch, but it is surely either a set of configuration settings or a sequence of questions to be answered each time a new bug report is done. The former doesn't seem useful, since the useful info to include will vary by bug report, not by bug submitter. The latter would be a burden on the bug reporter, and surely could come to be an annoyance. > > Sadly, there is a tendency for things which one _can_ > > configure to become things that one _must_ configure - > I don't recognize any such tendency. Give one example. Er, CC Mode. > > we know all about this in Emacs > Well I don't know about it. I've never seen the addition of a user option, with > no change to the default behavior, require any user to configure that option. That's a narrower case than I meant, I was talking more generally. We all have .emacses and I should think they are mostly biggish files. I would think there are few Emacs users without .emacses, if for nothing more than customize-* settings. > That's logically impossible. > If you do nothing then there is no change in behavior. If you are unaware of > the option then your life is as simple as before. If you are aware of it and IF > you want to take advantage of it, then you might even make life simpler for > yourself than before - but that's your choice. > > - which would be most unfriendly for novice bug reporters. > What would? Giving a choice to any user who wants it? To give somebody a choice is to inflict responsibility on her for choosing. > > Let's keep this as simple as possible. > Let's give _users_ the choice. Let's let them decide what is "as simple as > possible" for themselves, individually. I don't think users having this choice would be helpful. > > > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13141#43 -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 07:03:39 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 12:03:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41150 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twtcf-0006FY-ME for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:03:38 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:38891) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twtca-0006FM-LK for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:03:34 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id uo1so2818416pbc.17 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 04:02:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=eaOOBN/pifwYa+9i6O7lCgdTqqXVEeZaA9FqxOOG56s=; b=Zsjre/DTQ5p7odu4su4SiYcWfH9hB4ZDk1FR8eymMGlb/NFs8m0PCbpN3rRS2Y3RbU uG1JRJO4n+aJMnU7GsHaYsHocxkX2lylVsx/IYJ+wCHKztRccNCSWTl3zdA1fwCLwl/H wmdPc3JE9bM+3dBJ53LdmuGxxvz+y+biTuhvEaB5F1XLQvRhM31OSbLPAWwU5cbHqto4 xcyt4usqSEIkzRgae6WaBn+1ZtNOzlISSNJFH9Ltwh5OemD6x9a7VFzHAH5bwgFzdAai XTlcNUxyVkzGPF4YsapKSPup7V0YYH+/4jz1pIuTPGxtXrVXHPe3b0M8ky9S5Mn+eWO0 Jh+w== X-Received: by 10.68.244.169 with SMTP id xh9mr21515292pbc.52.1358683353178; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 04:02:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from Emacs ([124.117.12.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m3sm7183334pav.4.2013.01.20.04.02.29 (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 04:02:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:02:26 +0800 From: Xue Fuqiao To: Alan Mackenzie Subject: Re: please review bug #13141 Message-Id: <20130120200226.e67f106a5103898511e901dd@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20130120105003.GA3091@acm.acm> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> <20130120105003.GA3091@acm.acm> Organization: The Church of Emacs X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.13; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:50:03 +0000 Alan Mackenzie wrote: > I've not seen the patch, but it is surely either a set of configuration > settings or a sequence of questions to be answered each time a new bug > report is done. The former doesn't seem useful, since the useful info to > include will vary by bug report, not by bug submitter. The latter would > be a burden on the bug reporter, and surely could come to be an > annoyance. I haven't seen the patch, either. As for the latter, I think `map-y-or-n-p' is a good choice, `!' in `query-replace-map' can act on all following objects. > I > would think there are few Emacs users without .emacses, if for nothing > more than customize-* settings. I ever used Emacs without .emacs (except for custmize-* settings) for a long time, because: 1. I didn't know when to use `setq' and when to use `setq-default'; 2. I wanted to add a load-path, but I didn't know what function I should use (`push' or `add-to-list'); 3. I didn't know when to use `boundp', `fboundp' or `featurep'; 4. I didn't know what feature to `require'; 5. I didn't know the differences between `global-set-key' and `define-key'; And many other reasons. I think I'm not the only one who met these problems. -- Best regards, Xue Fuqiao. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 12:09:08 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 17:09:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41734 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwyOK-0005tC-3U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:09:08 -0500 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:62143) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwyOI-0005t4-AC for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:09:07 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MGX00800OQ7VQ00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:08:05 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MGX008S1OXFPI70@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:08:03 +0200 (IST) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:08:16 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: please review bug #13141 In-reply-to: <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Message-id: <83mww3pytb.fsf@gnu.org> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: acm@muc.de, 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:16:14 +0900 > Cc: 'Alan Mackenzie' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Note that just because Stefan never uses the information doesn't mean > that other developers don't. Indeed, I do most of the time, and frequently find there valuable information that I otherwise would have needed to ask for. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 12:41:44 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 17:41:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twytr-0006h3-8f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:41:43 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:34174) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twytm-0006gu-9l for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:41:41 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0KHebQh014205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:40:38 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0KHeagj024508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:40:37 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0KHeaDD005508; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:40:36 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:40:34 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Alan Mackenzie'" References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com><20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> <20130120105003.GA3091@acm.acm> Subject: RE: please review bug #13141 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:40:25 -0800 Message-ID: <1543326591D441B1ABA599BE163B141E@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01CDF6F2.2D2D1460" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <20130120105003.GA3091@acm.acm> Thread-Index: Ac32/N1iydk8l9qPS/mZVf4A/116kwANEl7A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01CDF6F2.2D2D1460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Why does giving other users a choice bother you? > > The default behavior would be the same as now. > > I've not seen the patch, but it is surely either a set of > configuration settings or a sequence of questions to be > answered each time a new bug report is done. It is simple to look at the patch. Or if you want to try it, to see the option (a single option) for yourself, you can load this tiny library that I just put together quickly: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en/emacsbug%2b.el (The code there is more complex than the patch version because it also provides compatibility for older Emacs versions.) And if loading that file is also too much trouble, then please at least take a quick look at the attached screenshot to see what the option looks like. (You can ignore any differences in the appearance from vanilla Emacs, e.g., the additional buttons. They are from my setup and are unrelated to this patch. Just look at the option check boxes and doc string.) > The former doesn't seem useful, since the useful info to > include will vary by bug report, not by bug submitter. It can vary by both. The option just provides for a user to have her own, customized default behavior, instead of being stuck with the one decided by Emacs Dev. And I agree with Dmitry's additional suggestion that we could provide a command or commands to insert individual information items, e.g., the same items a user can choose for the default behavior using the option: * version info * important settings list * major mode * minor modes * recent input * recent messages * load-path shadows * features > The latter would be a burden on the bug reporter, and surely > could come to be an annoyance. You can be assured that I would never propose anything like that. It should be quite clear by know that I am not in favor of unnecessary interrogations when a user tries to communicate with Emacs. See, for example, bug #13506 and the long history of such bug-report interrogation bugs over the last few years. > > > Sadly, there is a tendency for things which one _can_ > > > configure to become things that one _must_ configure - > > > I don't recognize any such tendency. Give one example. > > Er, CC Mode. Sorry, I'm not familiar with it. Can you elaborate? Can you please show how "the addition of a user option, with no change to the default behavior, require[s] any user to configure that option"? I cannot imagine that possibility in this universe. > > > we know all about this in Emacs > > > Well I don't know about it. I've never seen the addition > > of a user option, with no change to the default behavior, > > require any user to configure that option. > > That's a narrower case than I meant, I was talking more generally. Oh. Then maybe we are in agreement. That is all that the patch I proposed does. It does not in any way change the default behavior. At ease, please. > To give somebody a choice is to inflict responsibility on her for choosing. Not if the choice is not mandatory. You need not even be aware of this choice. That's why it's called an "option". I would agree with you if this were about a mandatory grilling of the user, making her reply to questions about things that s?he might not know or care about. That is not at all the case here. You and any other users can totally ignore this option and go on your business as before, with no change in behavior. Emacs will leave you alone. > I don't think users having this choice would be helpful. Perhaps your thinking was based on some confusion about what this does? 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uHDxmcb/AYIMoYXFDbC2AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01CDF6F2.2D2D1460-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 13:42:20 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 18:42:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41796 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwzqW-00086z-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:42:20 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:56688) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwzqT-00086r-BM for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:42:18 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TwzpU-0007Of-Pd; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:41:16 -0500 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:41:16 -0500 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" In-reply-to: <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org) Subject: Re: please review bug #13141 References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: acm@muc.de, 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) I've had at least half a dozen cases where users deleted automatically added information which I then requested -- to no avail, since the reporters never responded. To go out of their way to delete it makes me wonder why. Maybe it was a valid reason. Could it be that there was something private in that information which they specifically did not want to send? Because of this consideration it would not be right to hide that information. We should not try to trick our users into sending us something they did not want to send. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 20:04:45 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2013 01:04:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42020 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx5oa-0000SD-Tp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:04:45 -0500 Received: from mail-la0-f48.google.com ([209.85.215.48]:36304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx5oX-0000S4-U5 for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:04:42 -0500 Received: by mail-la0-f48.google.com with SMTP id fq13so475748lab.35 for <13141@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:03:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=3YfRVlNsvq6VvLlKm9mJpglrTVc/pTmzy0cKfWHse9c=; b=A60A18ehU3lJMCyBrvWcg+GVWVtTwsqUOLQQ7f0dlkuFbP+ciQG8OqD1GShak4gwJx kuo/X3VOGRdlrZluDp2IWiYuz3ktMDbJo1whsuPuXdocGvIXtx6P8W0EPmwOhGh42pv/ gJNkc9aVDhE8P8C16ZtC7A1tXTWbkbU70fq+aj1TNVIeSgCPJgY5ZGrX3KEid8Xfcg9y pVRBe6FttD4OH5NA+JmuoRQInyQ64hAJey38HEYgyekQgpdvRqOr7rUIZMB8Uh+NL/DQ G41uJn1br/9Dm38r0j1Lax9D2FK2sTbB8E+VLgFw7RBgenz5w8+i76Qfv0AzmPLsJL5k YvNA== X-Received: by 10.112.14.6 with SMTP id l6mr6820384lbc.81.1358730219587; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from SOL ([178.252.98.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8sm4663263lbg.2.2013.01.20.17.03.37 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:03:38 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Gutov To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#13141: please review bug #13141 References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 05:03:32 +0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:41:16 -0500") Message-ID: <87k3r7mjob.fsf@yandex.ru> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: acm@muc.de, "Stephen J. Turnbull" , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) Richard Stallman writes: > Stephen J. Turnbull writes: > > I've had at least half a dozen cases > where users deleted automatically added information which I then > requested -- to no avail, since the reporters never responded. If there's no information at all, maybe the users didn't go through the Emacs bug reporting interface, writing the report directly in the email client. > To go out of their way to delete it makes me wonder why. Maybe it was > a valid reason. Could it be that there was something private in that > information which they specifically did not want to send? I usually delete most of it, because the default text looks messy, and I don't like sending emails that look untidy. Also, it's harder to find the actual report description if it's surrounded by auto-generated text. It's better now that some parts of it are just shown through the display property, but the user might not know/understand that. > Because of this consideration it would not be right to hide > that information. We should not try to trick our users into sending > us something they did not want to send. As it is, the exact information the user's sending is not immediately obvious, they'd have to carefully scroll though a fairly large chunk of text to know that. IMO, it would be better to ask about each potentially-sensitive section (last keystrokes, obviously; local paths, recent messages? maybe), and then include them as attachment or several. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 20:23:55 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2013 01:23:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42035 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx678-0000wV-JO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:23:54 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:55843) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx676-0000wJ-8K for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:23:53 -0500 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r0L1MXZR004635; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:22:33 -0500 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5A97FAE365; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:22:39 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for`report-emacs-bug' Message-ID: References: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> <82mwxkjt1g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:22:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 20 Jan 2013 01:45:10 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV4467=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4467> : streams <892138> : uri <1323746> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 'Glenn Morris' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > That change unfortunately breaks fitting the frame to the buffer (using my > fit-frame.el), horribly. I'd rather fix fit-frame.el so it handles this case as well. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 20:36:48 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2013 01:36:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42066 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx6Jb-0001Hs-OB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:36:48 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28183) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx6JZ-0001Hh-8Q for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:36:46 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0L1Zgmc019928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 01:35:43 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0L1Zf3R027591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 01:35:42 GMT Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0L1ZfOi003497; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:35:41 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:35:41 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> <82mwxkjt1g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for`report-emacs-bug' Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:35:31 -0800 Message-ID: <13B0960231D241BD863EBF027D5C3A46@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac33ddf0ZrnYBsbtTg2w9pUiXe2MrAAACnsA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 'Glenn Morris' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > > That change unfortunately breaks fitting the frame to the > > buffer (using my fit-frame.el), horribly. > > I'd rather fix fit-frame.el so it handles this case as well. Suggestions welcome. ;-) I've thought a little about it. I could check each character for a display property that is, in effect, a replacement string (as in this case), and then get its width. But that would slow things down considerably. Currently I just get the line width for each line using `end-of-line'. I believe there is a longstanding Emacs bug regarding the same kind of thing for a vanilla Emacs function that does some window/buffer fitting. Perhaps you recall the discussion from a few years back. The plan/hope was to make it DTRT in terms of what actually gets displayed, not just what is inserted (text, images) in the buffer. AFAIK, nothing ever came of those hopes. fit-frame.el suffers from the same lack of magic. Anyway, clearly, for this latest bug (breaking fit-frame), it is FAR easier to revert to what we had before your fix or to find some other solution to the problem, as you saw it, of users copying text they "shouldn't". It is far easier to fix that than it would be to fix fit-frame.el's calculation of needed frame size so that it takes all display artifacts into account. We should not let the ideal become the enemy of the good. But as I said, if you have some simple suggestions for fit-frame.el in this regard, they are welcome. Even then, while waiting, it would be good to fix this minor unwarranted-text-copying problem some other way than your `display' property hack. I don't even see it as a real problem that needed fixing, personally, or at least not an important one. How much has it really been a problem in practice that users included instructions in their bug-report text? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 20:55:49 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2013 01:55:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx6c1-0001lV-0l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:55:49 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:43091) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx6bz-0001lP-DY for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:55:47 -0500 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r0L1scdc006127; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:54:39 -0500 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 1A5C2AE365; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:54:45 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for`report-emacs-bug' Message-ID: References: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> <82mwxkjt1g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <13B0960231D241BD863EBF027D5C3A46@us.oracle.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:54:45 -0500 In-Reply-To: <13B0960231D241BD863EBF027D5C3A46@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:35:31 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV4467=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4467> : streams <892149> : uri <1323760> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 'Glenn Morris' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > I've thought a little about it. I could check each character for a display > property that is, in effect, a replacement string (as in this case), and then > get its width. It should use things along the lines of vertical-motion. If those primitives don't cut it, just send a request for feature. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 21:10:16 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2013 02:10:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx6q0-00027p-8C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:10:16 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:50454) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx6px-00027h-M6 for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:10:14 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0L29AIh008959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:09:11 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0L29AZW019618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:09:10 GMT Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0L299DE014326; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:09:09 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 18:09:09 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <8738zc8krw.fsf@gmail.com> <82mwxkjt1g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org><13B0960231D241BD863EBF027D5C3A46@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#13141: 24.3.50; Be able to customize the info included by default for`report-emacs-bug' Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 18:09:00 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac33ekuYWt3wNXIGQiec3r6ZK/q6ygAAX/Vg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 'Glenn Morris' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > > I've thought a little about it. I could check each > > character for a display property that is, in effect, a > > replacement string (as in this case), and then get its width. > > It should use things along the lines of vertical-motion. If those > primitives don't cut it, just send a request for feature. OK, I'll keep that in mind. But the fact that Emacs itself has still not been able to do this (calculate the effective display dimensions for a buffer), does not encourage me to strike out in that wilderness. If I had more time I would perhaps experiment. But fit-frame is something that works well, and I don't want to fiddle with it too much without a clear idea about a simple solution/improvement. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 21:40:54 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2013 02:40:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx7Jd-0003qE-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:40:54 -0500 Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:57159) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx7Ja-0003q3-NY for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:40:52 -0500 Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398F59708D7; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F3DBA1A3537; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:39:46 +0900 (JST) From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: please review bug #13141 In-Reply-To: References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> <87obgk5npd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:39:46 +0900 Message-ID: <87ehhf5kel.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: acm@muc.de, 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) Richard Stallman writes: > I've had at least half a dozen cases > where users deleted automatically added information which I then > requested -- to no avail, since the reporters never responded. > > To go out of their way to delete it makes me wonder why. Maybe it was > a valid reason. Could it be that there was something private in that > information which they specifically did not want to send? Some of it, yes, such as the keystroke log. The list of shadowed libraries would only very rarely be considered sensitive. (For example, if the user had modified a corporate internal library and was shadowing it in her load-path.) The cases of deletion I'm referring to were done with a chainsaw rather than a scalpel. I've always assumed the motive was a misguided attempt to either localize the information to what they user thought was a bug or to save bandwidth, but you could be right: they were worried about the possibility of sensitive information leaking, and chose to deal with the issue brutally. > Because of this consideration it would not be right to hide that > information. We should not try to trick our users into sending us > something they did not want to send. Agreed. I withdraw the suggestion of appending the information after the user hits "send". Of course attaching it via MIME etc would be not be the default (my phrasing is at fault here, I was writing from the point of view of appeasing Drew and Fuqiao). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 20 23:25:52 2013 Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2013 04:25:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42189 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx8xE-0006Q7-7y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 23:25:52 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:37572) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tx8xA-0006Py-G7 for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 23:25:50 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0L4OiNl004163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 04:24:45 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0L4OhD8027499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 04:24:44 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0L4OhAv013312; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:24:43 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:24:38 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Alan Mackenzie'" References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com><20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm><20130120105003.GA3091@acm.acm> <1543326591D441B1ABA599BE163B141E@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: please review bug #13141 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:24:29 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0092_01CDF74C.26A560C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1543326591D441B1ABA599BE163B141E@us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: Ac32/N1iydk8l9qPS/mZVf4A/116kwANEl7AABYNHUA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13141 Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01CDF74C.26A560C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en/emacsbug%2b.el > > And I agree with Dmitry's additional suggestion that we could > provide a command or commands to insert individual information > items, e.g., the same items a user can choose for the default > behavior using the option: > > * version info > * important settings list > * major mode > * minor modes > * recent input > * recent messages > * load-path shadows > * features I've done that now in the standalone version at the URL above. The help buffer describes the available keys (commands) for inserting info. All such keys are on prefix C-o. Only those keys corresponding to info that is not automatically inserted, according to the option value, are bound to keys. And the help lists only those that are currently bound. E.g., if a user customizes the option to include no info by default, then a command is bound for each info type, and all of those keys are listed in the help, as shown in the attached screenshot. When no info is inserted by default, there is also a command/key to insert everything. At the other extreme, by default everything is inserted automatically, so no insertion commands are bound to keys and nothing is said in the help about the commands. The help is the same as in vanilla Emacs today, in that case, except that it mentions the option that you can customize, with a link for that. In between these extremes, the help shows keys for any info that did not get inserted automatically. It is very easy to add any type of info. It's hard for me to believe that some people are still suggesting we require users to answer a guantlet of questions about what info they want to provide. That is so barbaric it makes my head spin. This is the right approach, IMO: Pick a good set of default info types to insert automatically (e.g., all of them, today). Then tell users, in the displayed help, that they can customize an option to not include, by default, any of the info types they want. If they have customized that option to not include some types of info, then mention, in the help, the keys that insert that missing info. 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2014 08:23:32 +0100 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 23:22:41 -0800 Message-Id: <87ob2rpa9q.fsf@building.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #13141 X-MailScanner-ID: 1W9UvM-0001xP-I0 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1391844215.95853@PRa/Vw5HfADKULlWFLiXGQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 13141 From unknown Tue Jun 24 05:11:21 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2014 12:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator