Subject: bug#13141: please review bug #13141

From: "Drew Adams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:40:25 -0800

> > Why does giving other users a choice bother you?
> > The default behavior would be the same as now.
> 
> I've not seen the patch, but it is surely either a set of 
> configuration settings or a sequence of questions to be
> answered each time a new bug report is done.

It is simple to look at the patch.  Or if you want to try it, to see the option
(a single option) for yourself, you can load this tiny library that I just put
together quickly:
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en/emacsbug%2b.el

(The code there is more complex than the patch version because it also provides
compatibility for older Emacs versions.)

And if loading that file is also too much trouble, then please at least take a
quick look at the attached screenshot to see what the option looks like.

(You can ignore any differences in the appearance from vanilla Emacs, e.g., the
additional buttons.  They are from my setup and are unrelated to this patch.
Just look at the option check boxes and doc string.)

> The former doesn't seem useful, since the useful info to
> include will vary by bug report, not by bug submitter.

It can vary by both.  The option just provides for a user to have her own,
customized default behavior, instead of being stuck with the one decided by
Emacs Dev.

And I agree with Dmitry's additional suggestion that we could provide a command
or commands to insert individual information items, e.g., the same items a user
can choose for the default behavior using the option:

* version info
* important settings list
* major mode
* minor modes
* recent input
* recent messages
* load-path shadows
* features

> The latter would be a burden on the bug reporter, and surely
> could come to be an annoyance.

You can be assured that I would never propose anything like that.  It should be
quite clear by know that I am not in favor of unnecessary interrogations when a
user tries to communicate with Emacs.  See, for example, bug #13506 and the long
history of such bug-report interrogation bugs over the last few years.

> > > Sadly, there is a tendency for things which one _can_
> > > configure to become things that one _must_ configure -
> 
> > I don't recognize any such tendency.  Give one example.
> 
> Er, CC Mode.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with it.  Can you elaborate?  Can you please show how
"the addition of a user option, with no change to the default behavior,
require[s] any user to configure that option"?  I cannot imagine that
possibility in this universe.

> > > we know all about this in Emacs
> 
> > Well I don't know about it.  I've never seen the addition 
> > of a user option, with no change to the default behavior,
> > require any user to configure that option.
> 
> That's a narrower case than I meant, I was talking more generally.

Oh.  Then maybe we are in agreement.  That is all that the patch I proposed
does.  It does not in any way change the default behavior.  At ease, please.

> To give somebody a choice is to inflict responsibility on her for choosing.

Not if the choice is not mandatory.  You need not even be aware of this choice.
That's why it's called an "option".

I would agree with you if this were about a mandatory grilling of the user,
making her reply to questions about things that s?he might not know or care
about.

That is not at all the case here.  You and any other users can totally ignore
this option and go on your business as before, with no change in behavior.
Emacs will leave you alone.

> I don't think users having this choice would be helpful.

Perhaps your thinking was based on some confusion about what this does?  See if
what I've explained above about it doesn't change your mind.