From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 17 08:08:17 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2012 13:08:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50526 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZi86-0000jp-Mb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:08:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44558) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZi83-0000je-Dj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:08:12 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZi79-0002IF-RF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:07:18 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:39672) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZi79-0002IB-Nu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:07:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44694) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZi76-0001t3-LK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:07:15 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZi73-0002HM-GL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:07:12 -0500 Received: from mail-ea0-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:59773) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZi73-0002H6-9y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:07:09 -0500 Received: by mail-ea0-f169.google.com with SMTP id a12so729921eaa.0 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 05:07:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=EdoMX0ge58a0+Ww6gHEtKqFxfiYHX8mwHrP/DRhQaog=; b=qakofM1Fph3z2SK1eMvy2d+ceYambMhXyhu2DTrRJ1yxbrqjvRnppM7CwdeDgQo4HP 2DfuhgomtLjKF9QBAZ3w431u3aj/esjpGpuC/wIq0cdf+r6CndEOwGgWoQEbeg5J3JDP 5eGqFmeFe3W4RQ+IQF3RdRnYCchdKJ2wrFwRqF3wZJV0LXxOnijDjOnPU0ioiG+09M2S FQ9sCW0QwlgtOoJmqvE+AjNOxDKaKHMdX4kozDBHvbW4Gda9uMlrQK3s9rqJbiMGUxe4 KBdcmZZB9cNPFb92A8nmDWKSmBsf/jck5iHpOjI6h2EdFD2z5B0DTIelb6KtGLSUlEx/ TiVA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.207.68 with SMTP id m44mr6769773eeo.40.1353157628520; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 05:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.123.84 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 05:07:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:07:08 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files From: Dani Moncayo To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Please, when a file is visited via drag-and-drop, add that file to the history of visited files (so that I can revisit it with `C-x C-f M-p', for example). I don't see the point of not doing that. TIA. In GNU Emacs 24.2.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7601) of 2012-11-16 on MS-W7-DANI Bzr revision: 110888 rgm@gnu.org-20121116184100-sv2ns2ogdd711a7v Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -Ic:/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.10/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.10/src -Ic:/emacs/libs/libpng-1.2.37-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/zlib-1.2.5 -Ic:/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1-lib/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/libxml2-2.7.8-w32-bin/include/libxml2 -Ic:/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9-w32-bin/include -Ic:/emacs/libs/libiconv-1.9.2-1-lib/include' Important settings: value of $LANG: ENU locale-coding-system: cp1252 default enable-multibyte-characters: t -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 17 14:08:01 2012 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2012 19:08:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51280 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZnkG-0001Oc-7r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:08:01 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:50197) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZnkD-0001OT-9D for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:07:58 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TZnjJ-0007mD-8y; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:07:01 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Dani Moncayo Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files References: X-Spook: kilo class Venezuela Mena AK-47 Ruby Ridge Treasury sweep X-Ran: %*'2z@#FYdV}T&PExRFn1$1p82v,,/^+}y@P/`-Vt"s7TKK<|n~nrO#CndRcA:d8l X-Hue: white X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:07:01 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Dani Moncayo's message of "Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:07:08 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) Dani Moncayo wrote: > Please, when a file is visited via drag-and-drop, add that file to the > history of visited files (so that I can revisit it with `C-x C-f M-p', > for example). I don't see the point of not doing that. On a related note, I've always found it irritating that the same is true of files specified on the command line: emacs -Q README & C-x C-k README RET C-x C-f M-p -> "Beginning of history; no preceding item" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 17 16:38:43 2012 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2012 21:38:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51444 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZq62-0004rr-Lt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:38:40 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f44.google.com ([209.85.219.44]:36133) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TZq5v-0004rf-FJ for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:38:34 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id n5so3602484oag.3 for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WM7+rV5ywKP7P96kQ9pY6Dm8rn14sc9LdY4J8FWcRbo=; b=XvowmZLZ8yZs/el1hfw4AbuuW0oUHC4gea3gkCjKzVZguKpBOMteOWpUds2dqHIJXp xCLgbA+x4ZsieNYL+CvcDTatZEsqXOcdwDY2oc1mIsCHrOjNgDu43WIGTuJTKzMi3bpK yWSWXkf9X/rqeFofQpg2iHaK6rlBDfBIpl52cbtpCX+oB6OJPyHre78+dwiRu/J4RshW /obyQ4QruvI41NRsqU+bYBYm49FoSb4Ac32/SO8Rn9lnrNutOWRG94NP5NYRf+GC8W5T WBXQQzz9xCAwtlZFZsV8878NEw08TgSvtXs2uvzDwxgp90WSL1+n80RWML2O6/RaWfPc 4sbQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.146.107 with SMTP id tb11mr7091975obb.30.1353188256623; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.64.170 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 22:37:36 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files From: Dani Moncayo To: Glenn Morris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) >> Please, when a file is visited via drag-and-drop, add that file to the >> history of visited files (so that I can revisit it with `C-x C-f M-p', >> for example). I don't see the point of not doing that. > > On a related note, I've always found it irritating that the same is true > of files specified on the command line: > > emacs -Q README & > C-x C-k README RET > C-x C-f M-p > -> "Beginning of history; no preceding item" Indeed. The history of visited files should contain every visited file, regardless of the way it was visited (command line argument, drag-n-drop, menu item, C-x C-f...) -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 04:17:44 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2013 09:17:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39634 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqKSF-0004Yi-Lt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:17:44 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f43.google.com ([209.85.219.43]:59423) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TqKSC-0004YY-8E for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 04:17:41 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id k1so12834893oag.30 for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 01:16:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=nBkSYvQJcFiiF74o4nLRbyX8ZHCKikoEbw6njOUpdnk=; b=b5z0uO/cNolWoAWjhVHl/XZs7slvm0J7lkC5UiWFmm9fjnzCrprwGRh5NcMO7e9YKH 7h/cJNE0DQk1N+DsUS+kYuxE0yW5yjTDNyw5fFlp2ElS2aafzmHXpC65LIoYppEgBVqM vXNGBYqbfeXS/Dv4ql95yhdW6a/2xrcvjxKTfnEMXnmcoBVpvNci2DKeG82Ai7t+qSu6 9IDhmhmTyww/Ul+uc/7NyD/KrX9/lV8k8d/J4TVDZOROHF6DBljB8+aS0V7v25HsZWZv rhRVXkIGgvw0O+vPSEwf+848i6j5ol365QL2TmIdEjWvQwBMD9NmcIgjgKXIIiRQuBdp k5Og== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.77.230 with SMTP id v6mr13758514obw.66.1357118178535; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 01:16:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.11.39 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 01:16:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 10:16:18 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files From: Dani Moncayo To: Glenn Morris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) > The history of visited files should contain every visited > file, regardless of the way it was visited (command line argument, > drag-n-drop, menu item, C-x C-f...) ... and when the file is visited via bookmarks (e.g. `C-x r b foo '). (I've just missed this feature). -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 03:26:16 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 08:26:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56205 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TtwPw-0006cv-HT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 03:26:16 -0500 Received: from mail-pb0-f52.google.com ([209.85.160.52]:59850) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TtwPt-0006cg-L9 for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 03:26:15 -0500 Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id ro2so1359565pbb.39 for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:25:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=xsqwW76RXY5s9brZYUqYjAsZkDb6Xpowkac1YddSMNE=; b=nxTwHmJer0YpxuyD+zxXswDvkfp1vuSg4Is3mLF6uNOPPspDpnOtSxRluRg1vR7Ga4 qOXxkh5s23vwPl9JdKGs9fHlLVrklzsa+4aJPb2uHA4b7QDs7OiP/U4p12sSJnEnQBgZ GzO1R6Or6NjIa0Ynh9YZ7I0aHtP2hQNXIGNPBi+6asH7UKXNc5d8GT7BDHoekq2Uks5w dNXVKu/lEKryEnRMEU0EzmGBneyoATQWcK8zniRcBOs4RaFJ1eY5B0cMZfzMJUwOdURm lEjxlTsWBetVs1ctbd8tBSn/WgD2+24rfixX4Omcn4fpPzaPxu+j37npJRjeBbH9R6G5 eeDQ== X-Received: by 10.68.245.167 with SMTP id xp7mr239179830pbc.75.1357979156441; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from tsparkle ([155.69.168.49]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ou3sm4259670pbb.46.2013.01.12.00.25.52 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:25:54 -0800 (PST) From: Chong Yidong To: Dani Moncayo Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files References: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 16:25:50 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Dani Moncayo's message of "Wed, 2 Jan 2013 10:16:18 +0100") Message-ID: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Dani Moncayo writes: >> The history of visited files should contain every visited >> file, regardless of the way it was visited (command line argument, >> drag-n-drop, menu item, C-x C-f...) > > ... and when the file is visited via bookmarks (e.g. `C-x r b foo > '). (I've just missed this feature). This feature is relatively easy to implement. I think it is best done by adding an optional argument `add-history' to `find-file' (and similar functions like `find-file-other-frame'), so that Lisp callers can specify to update `file-name-history' even if the file name was not read interactively. Any objections? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 08:18:25 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 13:18:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56398 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu0ye-0006BE-FH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:18:24 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:16047) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu0yd-0006Az-1n for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:18:23 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqQHAG6Zu09FpZpV/2dsb2JhbABEgXuuTYE1ghSBCIIVAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYHCxQYDSSIHAW6CZBEA4hCmnGBWIMH X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="212359964" Received: from 69-165-154-85.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.154.85]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 12 Jan 2013 08:18:04 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 575AC592A5; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:18:03 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files Message-ID: References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:18:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> (Chong Yidong's message of "Sat, 12 Jan 2013 16:25:50 +0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > I think it is best done by adding an optional argument `add-history' to > `find-file' (and similar functions like `find-file-other-frame'), so > that Lisp callers can specify to update `file-name-history' even if the > file name was not read interactively. Any objections? Maybe a more automatic way is to provide a `display-buffer-hook', that's run from `set-window-buffer', and then have find-file-noselect use this hook to add the file name onto the history if the buffer is shown to the user. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 09:31:27 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 14:31:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56472 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu27I-0007vM-2G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:31:26 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:53096) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu276-0007uv-96 for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:31:20 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.33]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M84ER-1Sybzp3lPV-00vdxj for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:30:52 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 12 Jan 2013 14:30:52 -0000 Received: from 62-47-61-165.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.61.165]) [62.47.61.165] by mail.gmx.net (mp033) with SMTP; 12 Jan 2013 15:30:52 +0100 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/NofxqK3XNpXlRqkPkcNBf2aZ0KlVYCOfv9owZfa lnyyEOMDhMYZfX Message-ID: <50F17395.7050007@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:30:45 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > Maybe a more automatic way is to provide a `display-buffer-hook', that's > run from `set-window-buffer', and then have find-file-noselect use this > hook to add the file name onto the history if the buffer is shown to > the user. `buffer-list-update-hook' ? martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 11:54:51 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 16:54:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57154 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu4M6-00030R-CJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:54:51 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:37608) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu4M4-00030E-Ak for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:54:48 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqQHAG6Zu09FpZpV/2dsb2JhbABEgXuuTYE1ghSBCIIVAQEEAVYjEAs0BwsUGA0kiBwFugmQRAOIQppxgViDBw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="212366619" Received: from 69-165-154-85.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.154.85]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 12 Jan 2013 11:54:29 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B5671592A5; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:54:28 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: martin rudalics Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files Message-ID: References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <50F17395.7050007@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:54:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: <50F17395.7050007@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:30:45 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) >> Maybe a more automatic way is to provide a `display-buffer-hook', that's >> run from `set-window-buffer', and then have find-file-noselect use this >> hook to add the file name onto the history if the buffer is shown to >> the user. > `buffer-list-update-hook' ? Is it run when we set-display-buffer? Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 13:00:08 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 18:00:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57192 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5NH-0004ar-Gq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:00:08 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:34423) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5NF-0004ZZ-FC for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:00:06 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0CHxjq9014483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:59:46 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0CHxipj004415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:59:45 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0CHxi6H002441; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:59:44 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:59:44 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Chong Yidong'" , "'Dani Moncayo'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:59:37 -0800 Message-ID: <0D133CE87DCE4BA396A4720CB7CE4A98@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac3wnpsGOM8m+Q/aTAG8CPEA7bp4iwARjy7g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 'martin rudalics' , 'Stefan Monnier' , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > >> The history of visited files should contain every visited > >> file, regardless of the way it was visited (command line > >> argument, drag-n-drop, menu item, C-x C-f...) > > > > ... and when the file is visited via bookmarks (e.g. > > `C-x r b foo '). (I've just missed this feature). > > This feature is relatively easy to implement. > > I think it is best done by adding an optional argument > `add-history' to `find-file' (and similar functions like > `find-file-other-frame'), so that Lisp callers can specify to > update `file-name-history' even if the file name was not read > interactively. Any objections? Yes, FWIW, I completely disagree with this - the aim. History variables are about _user input_. For file names, that means interactive use of a file-finding command. They are not just about accessing a file, or using a command, or mentioning a variable, or .... They are INPUT histories. In the past there have been suggestions to add commands associated with menu items that a user accesses interactively to `extended-command-history'. That suggestion was rejected (why?), even with the proviso that it be governed by a user option. This proposed change goes against the intention/meaning of Emacs input histories. The proper solution is for commands that read file names to DTRT wrt `file-name-history' - TRT for that command. If for instance, a bookmark jump command visits a file (it need not) then it could, itself, explicitly add that file's name to `file-name-history'. The command knows what TRT is. And the user knows more than does the command, and should ultimately decide. Normally, changing `file-name-history' would not (_should_ not) be done by a bookmark jump command, unless the file name was provided as user input. That's what these histories are for: _user input_. Past input provides candidates for future input. A bookmarking command that reads a bookmark name puts that bookmark name on `bookmark-history'. A priori, it should not also put the visited file name on `file-name-history'. Not without some user agreement (e.g. via an option specific for this wrt bookmarks). This proposed change is misguided, IMHO. I'm surprised that both Emacs maintainers apparently immediately signed on to it. It is so easy for any command (or any function - but this should be done in the context of a command and its user interaction) to add a name to any history, according to what it deems is TRT. There is no need to do this in some low-level, automatic way. No need - and it's generally the wrong thing to do. Is it hard to solve the specific problem raised by the enhancement request (it is not a bug report): have drag-and-drop add the name of the file to `file-history', without going in the direction you are suggesting? Why is that difficult to address specifically? And since users should be able to control this, how would they do it? The enhancement request also mentions menu-item access and bookmark access. Different users will feel differently about whether those should all be lumped together in this respect. I mentioned the case of menus and commands because it is similar: accessing a command via a menu is a different user action than typing its name into the minibuffer for `M-x'. A priori, it is only actual, historical command-name input that we want to later provide for command-name reading. But a user might later want to repeat that menu-accessed command by name, using the minibuffer. That's why this feature was proposed. (This has been an Icicles user option for years. Some people use it, some do not. It is turned on by default.) But it's also why this kind of thing should be controlled by specific user options (one for menu items, one for file bookmarks, etc.). A user should opt into having other commands, which do not _read_ a name (e.g. file), also add a name to the history. This is no less important for file dragging-&-dropping, or file access by menu, than it is for accessing commands by menu. The important point is that we should not generalize the addition of names (of files or whatever) to histories beyond _user interaction_ or in some automatic way beyond user control. And for any user interaction besides _reading_ the name, users should be able to control (e.g. via an option) whether the name gets added to the input name history. For commands like bookmark jumping, a user should be able to decide whether `file-name-history' should be augmented, in addition to `bookmark-history'. I hope you will think a little more about this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 13:01:54 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 18:01:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57201 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5Oz-0004dh-Jc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:01:53 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:34699) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5Ow-0004dJ-Ss for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:01:51 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0CI1VWY015734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:01:31 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0CI1UI0006574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:01:30 GMT Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0CI1TDO028580; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:01:30 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:01:29 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Chong Yidong'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:01:23 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac3wx2GWA9CM79XmQ3S8Y95zFxD1jwAIVu2Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > Maybe a more automatic way More automatic is even worse. _User interaction_ (mainly, typing a name) should control whether an _input history_ gets augmented. That should not happen automatically each time a file is displayed (or a variable's doc is shown, or a function is called that might happen to be a command, or...) > is to provide a `display-buffer-hook', that's > run from `set-window-buffer', and then have > find-file-noselect use this hook to add the file > name onto the history if the buffer is shown to > the user. It's not clear whether you are actually suggesting that the file name should be added unconditionally whenever the file is displayed. If you are, that's the worst possible thing, IMO. Just because a file is displayed does not mean that a user wants that name to be added to the input history for file names. It's a file-name _input_ history - generalized at most to a user-request-for-the-file history. It is not just a file-display history. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 13:01:57 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 18:01:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57204 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5P3-0004dv-2o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:01:57 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:58084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5P1-0004dU-2w for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:01:55 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.33]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M6PXJ-1T1K8y353b-00yP3T for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:01:35 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 12 Jan 2013 18:01:35 -0000 Received: from 62-47-61-165.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.61.165]) [62.47.61.165] by mail.gmx.net (mp033) with SMTP; 12 Jan 2013 19:01:35 +0100 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+MYz42KhSMZxs5i/hVMcaDpczrew1QQwYmCoBZ/t Ie+fBrqDMi2XWl Message-ID: <50F1A4F8.9060208@gmx.at> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:01:28 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <50F17395.7050007@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) >> `buffer-list-update-hook' ? > > Is it run when we set-display-buffer? If you mean `set-window-buffer', it will so soon. But since it's also run elsewhere (e.g. by `kill-buffer') the function you put on the hook probably needs a non-nil return value from `get-window-buffer'. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 13:03:22 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 18:03:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57212 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5QP-0004gR-Vl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:03:22 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:34934) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5QN-0004gF-Qo for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:03:20 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0CI2x1W016411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:03:00 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0CI2xNs021740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:02:59 GMT Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0CI2xju029033; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:02:59 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:02:58 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'martin rudalics'" , "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <50F17395.7050007@gmx.at> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the historyof visited files Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:02:53 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <50F17395.7050007@gmx.at> Thread-Index: Ac3w0Zhx5gHlj9lGRYm+K7rKCgE7sAAGAqeg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > Maybe a more automatic way is to provide a > > `display-buffer-hook'... > > `buffer-list-update-hook' ? File-name input is not about a change in the list of buffers or the displayed files. It is about files that the user has interactively requested to access. In particular, requested by entering the file name. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 13:32:11 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 18:32:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57228 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5sI-0005LZ-NJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:32:11 -0500 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:53763) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu5sF-0005L1-C0 for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:32:08 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MGI00K00ZF5TJ00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:31:47 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MGI00KLIZGYSC30@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:31:47 +0200 (IST) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:32:11 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83ip72s15g.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:01:23 -0800 > Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org > > If you are, that's the worst possible thing, IMO. Just because a file is > displayed does not mean that a user wants that name to be added to the input > history for file names. > > It's a file-name _input_ history - generalized at most to a > user-request-for-the-file history. It is not just a file-display history. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.179.55.169 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.7 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.4969] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: cyd@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:01:23 -0800 > Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org > > If you are, that's the worst possible thing, IMO. Just because a file is > displayed does not mean that a user wants that name to be added to the input > history for file names. > > It's a file-name _input_ history - generalized at most to a > user-request-for-the-file history. It is not just a file-display history. You keep saying that, time and again, but I have yet to see an explanation and specific reasons why this history should only keep file names typed in the mini-buffer, nor why might the user object to having file names added to that history when files are visited via menus or DND or whatever. Without specific and detailed explanations, this is just "he said, she said" kind of argument, which can never lead to any constructive discussion. My use case that might benefit from this is when a file is visited because some program invoked emacsclient. I find myself in the need of revisiting the file after I did "C-x #", and then I'm annoyed that I cannot find it in the history, until it hits me that "oh, yes, it was visited via emacsclient..." Another similar situation is when a file was visited via RET in the Dired buffer, then the buffer was killed, and then one wants to revisit the file with "C-x C-f". I believe this can be generalized: a file that was visited without typing its name in the minibuffer, then the buffer was killed, and then the user wants to revisit the file. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 12 17:44:03 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2013 22:44:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57347 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu9o2-0003ft-In for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:44:03 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:20071) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tu9nx-0003fE-W7 for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:44:00 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0CMhapA019299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 22:43:37 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0CMhZfX011844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 22:43:36 GMT Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0CMhZ9M032156; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 16:43:35 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:43:35 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <83ip72s15g.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:43:28 -0800 Message-ID: <95D0D9D79F6C43FC8DA324988AFF23E0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83ip72s15g.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac3w8xX5/9Y5Ne/cR0u0zqoIIp03DQAE+htA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: cyd@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > > It's a file-name _input_ history - generalized at most to > > a user-request-for-the-file history. It is not just a > > file-display history. > > You keep saying that, time and again, You're very inventive. Name one other time when I said that. Name two, since you claim "time and again". > but I have yet to see an explanation and specific reasons > why this history should only keep file names typed in the > mini-buffer, See (emacs) Minibuffer History. See (elisp) Minibuffer History. Really, please do take a look at that doc. It describes what minibuffer histories are and what they are for. That is, it describes the design/intention - so far. I am not inventing anything here - except that I too am in favor of generalizing the input history to "a user-request-for-the-file history", allowing for different forms of such request. Turn it around - where do you see that the Emacs doc says that `file-name-history' is for every file that has ever been displayed? Similarly, any other minibuffer history variable. A minibuffer input history is, well, a minibuffer input history. It is a history of your past inputs for a particular command or a particular kind of command (e.g. commands that read file names). That is the design, not just some past implementation limitation. And I was quite clear that it _can_ be useful to extend this to names introduced indirectly by other means - other user interactions, besides simply typing a name in the minibuffer. To back that up, I gave a specific example of my having proposed this, long ago, for commands that a user invokes indirectly (not by name) by using a menu. And that discussion (where the proposal was rejected) dealt also with implementation specifics - it was not just pie in the sky. And I mentioned that I implemented that years ago for Icicles. So it should be clear to anyone who actually reads what I wrote that I am _not against_ the idea of extending input histories beyond minibuffer reading to other ways of invoking the same behavior (in this case, accessing files). But I also made it clear that it is important for users to be able to control whether and where and how much this is done. I argued against an automatic handling of all displayed files by simply adding their names to `file-name-history' willy nilly. > nor why might the user object to having file names added to that > history when files are visited via menus or DND or whatever. Users are different. And they might want different behavior for different kinds of names or for different commands. A user does not necessarily want this or that input history polluted by names that s?he never entered as input. A given user might well want input history to include only actual inputs (as now), to keep cycling or searching more succinct or for other reasons. Same reason a user might not want to include the names of commands s?he invokes using a menu. Ask yourself why Emacs Dev rejected that possibility when I proposed it, if you want reasons why a user might consider such inclusion to pollute the actual input history with noise. But a different user might not object at all, and might appreciate this feature. That's why (a) I am not opposed to making such possibilities available to users and (b) I stated that users should be able to control this. BOTH: (a) new possibilities and (b) ability to choose among them. There are many ways to access a file, or invoke a command, or get information about a variable. We should not assume that all users want all such ways to be amalgamated when it comes to augmenting specific "input histories". I hope it is clear to you now that I am not against giving users the opportunity to retrieve names implicated by past interactions besides just minibuffer input. Far from it. As another example of that, in Icicles you can retrieve past text that you have typed in the minibuffer during completion but which you never entered using RET. You do not use the minibuffer history to do that, however - the two histories are kept separate and accessed differently. Having that completion-content history is useful because Icicles lets you do multiple things with different, or even with multiple, completion candidates, based on the current minibuffer text. You might open several files during a file-finding command without ever hitting RET (e.g., hitting C-g to end instead). The point is that yes, it can be useful for users to have additional sets of names that were used in some way in the past (even indirectly/implicitly), making them available for later reuse. I do not disagree with that at all - I have even proposed it. > Without specific and detailed explanations, this is just "he said, she > said" kind of argument, which can never lead to any constructive > discussion. Blah. More of your inventive "You keep saying that, time and again,..." No one said anything like "he said" or "she said" - at all. Except you. And no one said what you claim I said. And I agree with you that that kind of thing is not constructive. So skip it, please. > My use case that might benefit from this is when a file is visited > because some program invoked emacsclient. I find myself in the need > of revisiting the file after I did "C-x #", and then I'm annoyed that > I cannot find it in the history, until it hits me that "oh, yes, it > was visited via emacsclient..." > > Another similar situation is when a file was visited via RET in the > Dired buffer, then the buffer was killed, and then one wants to > revisit the file with "C-x C-f". > > I believe this can be generalized: a file that was visited without > typing its name in the minibuffer, then the buffer was killed, and > then the user wants to revisit the file. And I would not be against any such possibilities. I tried to make that clear. They, and others, can all be useful. User A (you perhaps) might want the name of every file that is ever displayed in any way to be added to the input history. User B might want actually-input file names plus names of files accessed using Dired to be included. User C might want names input to `find-file' etc. and names input to emacsclient to be included. User D might want those plus all file names used in shell commands, even outside Emacs (parsing shell command histories or whatever). User E might want to include all file names present as text in any buffer. The discussion here can focus on file names - that's fine, and an important case. But similar considerations apply generally to any kind of name that can be used in an input history. And especially when it comes to proposals to treat things in an automatic, blanket way, it can help to think about doing the same for other kinds of names. That might help discover whether the proposed handling might not be such a great idea after all. Would you argue, for instance, that every face that has ever been shown in the current session must be automatically added to `face-name-history'? Some users might like that; some might not - for some it might be helpful; for others it might represent just noise, getting in the way of reusing a real past face choice. There are lots of possibilities. My argument is against an automatic one-size-fits-all approach that takes control away from users and radically changes the meaning and behavior of traditional Emacs minibuffer histories. I am not against extending, under user control, specific input histories in various ways. I would argue though that such ways should involve user interaction - actually _choosing_ the thingie that is named in some way, as opposed to simply all adding the names of all files or all faces that have so far been displayed/accessed/used etc. The same is true for dealing with other sets of names - completion candidates, for instance. Some libraries let users of `C-x b' access also recently accessed files (per recentf), or names cached using filecache, during buffer-name completion. Icicles does that, and IIRC, Ido and Helm offer that also. But some users will want those names included with buffer-name candidates, and some users will not. And some who want them included will want fewer or more such names (different limits). In Icicles there are user options to control such behavior (one for recentf names, one for filecache names). That is the kind of argument I am making here: give users the _possibility_ of including, as part of `file-name-history', file names not actually typed in the minibuffer. But give them also the ability to _choose_ which such names get added, as defined by how the files were chosen for access. Different strokes for different folks. This is a normal thing to consider whenever you are thinking about including additional candidates: whether, what kind, how many. That's all. And let individual users decide. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 04:58:20 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 09:58:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57694 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuKKa-0002bg-1P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 04:58:20 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:45253 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuKKX-0002bS-3a for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 04:58:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4570B212E5A2AD; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 01:57:58 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files Organization: JURTA References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:56:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> (Chong Yidong's message of "Sat, 12 Jan 2013 16:25:50 +0800") Message-ID: <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) >>> The history of visited files should contain every visited >>> file, regardless of the way it was visited (command line argument, >>> drag-n-drop, menu item, C-x C-f...) >> >> ... and when the file is visited via bookmarks (e.g. `C-x r b foo >> '). (I've just missed this feature). > > This feature is relatively easy to implement. When this feature was discussed last time at http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs/9253/focus=43774 I found it too irritating that it clutters the minibuffer history with too many unnecessary elements that were not entered manually. > I think it is best done by adding an optional argument `add-history' to > `find-file' (and similar functions like `find-file-other-frame'), so > that Lisp callers can specify to update `file-name-history' even if the > file name was not read interactively. Any objections? Since this is a matter of personal preference, I think not Lisp callers but Emacs users should be able to specify what to add to the history. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 05:16:11 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 10:16:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57702 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuKbq-00031I-Jy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:16:10 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com ([209.85.219.52]:39403) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuKbo-000315-Jo for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:16:09 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id o6so3065886oag.25 for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 02:15:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8zFdq5P3snVWigHCDMrwHN+62uonV533LJmb+spxKqY=; b=SWwloaRhbNQ5TeH9rDrTXVTzpW03lyJGXHoRlfRqZsE7ZXNNd0ElPqOUsmdbCBm4WA Xs+Xmsm7cnflDWd3GGlr8hTIKaf1ES67H50VtMRb7G8p2K1xpBTzmBLCejIKAtOS74yf VmE44zFx5qs1am9Ln2nTNdyE0M4OG9o+jTvY6xLMLQFjoVq0arl8aQFtXjn/5IWvB1xY IA6SwHBG4EhWZZ7nI6qvEgl135D1sPHEYD0m0D8jwzO2aPMa+jU6Sl95K2GIfbhUFGvq KOBZbn8ge74umR8c/2Pumff4OWFld0v/PyysnmWUUqUOMY5Am6fqOAlYbztgw+KfXaRM qhrg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.7.67 with SMTP id h3mr48063819oea.31.1358072145646; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 02:15:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.11.39 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 02:15:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:15:45 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files From: Dani Moncayo To: Juri Linkov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) > When this feature was discussed last time at > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs/9253/focus=43774 > I found it too irritating that it clutters the minibuffer history > with too many unnecessary elements that were not entered manually. > >> I think it is best done by adding an optional argument `add-history' to >> `find-file' (and similar functions like `find-file-other-frame'), so >> that Lisp callers can specify to update `file-name-history' even if the >> file name was not read interactively. Any objections? > > Since this is a matter of personal preference, I think not Lisp callers > but Emacs users should be able to specify what to add to the history. FWIW, I also don't want to pollute the minibuffer history, obviously. That would make harder to find the entries you care about. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but what I had in mind was adding to the history every file visited _under direct user request_ (with either `C-x C-f', drag-n-drop, click on dired buffer, jump to bookmark, menu item, command line argument, etc). -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 09:26:03 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 14:26:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57832 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuOVe-0001Gv-Oa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:26:03 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:28274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuOVa-0001GY-Gp for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:25:59 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqQHAG6Zu09FpZpV/2dsb2JhbABEgXuuTYE1ghSBCIIVAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYHCxQYDSSIHAW6CZBEA4hCmnGBWIMH X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="212417159" Received: from 69-165-154-85.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.154.85]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Jan 2013 09:25:34 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A55C1592A5; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:25:33 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Dani Moncayo Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files Message-ID: References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:25:33 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Dani Moncayo's message of "Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:15:45 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Juri Linkov , Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but what I had in mind was adding to > the history every file visited _under direct user request_ (with > either `C-x C-f', drag-n-drop, click on dired buffer, jump to > bookmark, menu item, command line argument, etc). Do you agree that "file displayed" is a good enough approximation? What are the cases where Emacs displays a file without it being "under direct user request"? Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 11:35:21 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 16:35:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58372 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuQWn-0004K3-Cf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:35:21 -0500 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:58420) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuQWk-0004Jp-Gi for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:35:19 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MGK00300O7M1V00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:34:53 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MGK003HGOQ43000@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:34:53 +0200 (IST) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:35:20 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files In-reply-to: <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Juri Linkov Message-id: <83d2x9rqgn.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:56:20 +0200 > Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org > > When this feature was discussed last time at > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs/9253/focus=43774 > I found it too irritating that it clutters the minibuffer history > with too many unnecessary elements that were not entered manually. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.179.55.175 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.7 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.4631] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: cyd@gnu.org, 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:56:20 +0200 > Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org > > When this feature was discussed last time at > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs/9253/focus=43774 > I found it too irritating that it clutters the minibuffer history > with too many unnecessary elements that were not entered manually. That discussion also suggested a very simple device to avoid such cluttering, and only add to history files which Emacs visited by user commands. So this difficulty doesn't seem to be a real one. > Since this is a matter of personal preference, I think not Lisp callers > but Emacs users should be able to specify what to add to the history. Emacs already has way too many options. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 12:14:12 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 17:14:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58401 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuR8N-0005CY-9O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:14:12 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:18592) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuR8K-0005CL-Oh for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:14:10 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0DHDhfc030076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:13:43 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0DHDgmA029832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:13:42 GMT Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0DHDf8Q002983; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:13:41 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:13:41 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Dani Moncayo'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:13:33 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac3xmgjjhJT5dG2RRJKFVGdxbTVVcgAE/2Hw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) > > Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but what I had in mind was adding to > > the history every file visited _under direct user request_ (with > > either `C-x C-f', drag-n-drop, click on dired buffer, jump to > > bookmark, menu item, command line argument, etc). > > Do you agree that "file displayed" is a good enough approximation? > What are the cases where Emacs displays a file without it being "under > direct user request"? Certainly not. You are playing with words here: choosing to display the file is, yes, under direct user request. That does not mean that choosing to add its name to the history is under direct user request. A user requesting that a given file be displayed is one thing. A user wanting the name of a file that s?he displays using a particular method (e.g. command-line arg) to be added to the history is another thing. Users should be able to specify the name-adding behavior they want. Simply adding the name of every file that gets displayed, no matter how, does not give users the control they deserve. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 12:14:36 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 17:14:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58404 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuR8m-0005D9-Hv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:14:36 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27508) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuR8j-0005Cv-Uc for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:14:35 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0DHE78N016502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:14:08 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0DHE6FX000043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:14:07 GMT Received: from abhmt110.oracle.com (abhmt110.oracle.com [141.146.116.62]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0DHE6W0003086; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:14:06 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:14:06 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Dani Moncayo'" , "'Juri Linkov'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:13:58 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac3xdx/EWkmR9m67QTu3isJG/nPJtAANn9Fg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > FWIW, I also don't want to pollute the minibuffer history, obviously. > That would make harder to find the entries you care about. Yes, and different users can prefer different things. One person's pollution or noise is another person's convenience feature or dwim. And the same user can want different things at different times or in different contexts. > Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but what I had in mind was adding to > the history every file visited _under direct user request_ (with > either `C-x C-f', drag-n-drop, click on dired buffer, jump to > bookmark, menu item, command line argument, etc). Yes, but users should also be able to pick and choose which kinds of file-choosing interactions should result in adding names to `file-name-history'. Different users...different contexts... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 12:15:31 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 17:15:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58409 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuR9e-0005Eu-U4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:15:31 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:18755) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuR9c-0005Ei-B3 for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:15:29 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0DHF2T4031074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:15:03 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0DHF2Ye026194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:15:02 GMT Received: from abhmt105.oracle.com (abhmt105.oracle.com [141.146.116.57]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0DHF2M7007167; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:15:02 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:15:02 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , "'Juri Linkov'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <83d2x9rqgn.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the historyof visited files Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:14:54 -0800 Message-ID: <4B5D11AF1FD5475FAEDF5E6DA6FCE227@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83d2x9rqgn.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac3xrBMOe0NQrW7oTMWN1FnpnHgbGgAAlFIA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: cyd@gnu.org, 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > When this feature was discussed last time at > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs/9253/focus=43774 > > I found it too irritating that it clutters the minibuffer history > > with too many unnecessary elements that were not entered manually. > > That discussion also suggested a very simple device to avoid such > cluttering, and only add to history files which Emacs visited by user > commands. Users should be able to choose for themselves which kinds of interaction (drag-n-drop, menu access, etc.) should result in adding the file name. One size does not fit all. > So this difficulty doesn't seem to be a real one. Not for you, perhaps. > > Since this is a matter of personal preference, I think not > > Lisp callers but Emacs users should be able to specify what > > to add to the history. > > Emacs already has way too many options. Wrong. That's akin to saying that Emacs users have too many options, too much freedom to customize Emacs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 12:31:39 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 17:31:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58419 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuRPF-0005bb-QG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:31:38 -0500 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:44101) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuRPB-0005bM-Up for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:31:35 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MGK00H00RAGDK00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:31:07 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MGK00GLZRBVWVB0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:31:07 +0200 (IST) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:31:34 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files In-reply-to: <95D0D9D79F6C43FC8DA324988AFF23E0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <838v7xrnux.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <83ip72s15g.fsf@gnu.org> <95D0D9D79F6C43FC8DA324988AFF23E0@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: cyd@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , , <12915@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:43:28 -0800 > > > > It's a file-name _input_ history - generalized at most to > > > a user-request-for-the-file history. It is not just a > > > file-display history. > > > > You keep saying that, time and again, > > You're very inventive. Not at all. Drew in http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2013-01/msg00408.html: > History variables are about _user input_. For file names, that means > interactive use of a file-finding command. They are not just about accessing a > file, or using a command, or mentioning a variable, or .... They are INPUT > histories. Drew in http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2013-01/msg00409.html: > It's a file-name _input_ history - generalized at most to a > user-request-for-the-file history. It is not just a file-display history. Drew in http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2013-01/msg00412.html: > File-name input is not about a change in the list of buffers or the displayed > files. It is about files that the user has interactively requested to access. > In particular, requested by entering the file name. As you see, I didn't invent anything. > Name one other time when I said that. > Name two, since you claim "time and again". I named 3 above. I meant in this thread. > > but I have yet to see an explanation and specific reasons > > why this history should only keep file names typed in the > > mini-buffer, > > See (emacs) Minibuffer History. > See (elisp) Minibuffer History. The docs are not a catechism. We wrote it, and we can change it if we decide to do so. I asked for _your_ take of this, I'd like to see your use cases when adding to file-name history names of files that were not typed in the minibuffer would be the wrong thing. > Turn it around - where do you see that the Emacs doc says that > `file-name-history' is for every file that has ever been displayed? Emacs docs are not requirements. They are descriptions of a certain state of the package behavior. When the behavior changes, we update the docs. We never treat the docs as requirements that we need to fulfill. > So it should be clear to anyone who actually reads what I wrote that I am _not > against_ the idea of extending input histories beyond minibuffer reading to > other ways of invoking the same behavior (in this case, accessing files). You could have fooled me. > But I also made it clear that it is important for users to be able to control > whether and where and how much this is done. I argued against an automatic > handling of all displayed files by simply adding their names to > `file-name-history' willy nilly. What is fundamentally different between typing a file name at "C-x C-f" prompt, and selecting a file name via the file selection dialog after clicking "File->Visit New File" on the menu bar? Why would the former end up in the history, but not the latter? > A user does not necessarily want this or that input history polluted by names > that s?he never entered as input. We _are_ talking about selecting files by their names. The name doesn't have to be typed in its entirety. E.g., typing "foo TAB" into the minibuffer, then clicking on "foobar" in *Completions* does end up in the history, although the user only typed "foo". Where do you draw the line? How do you explain the difference to users, without going into the internals, which users don't care about? > Would you argue, for instance, that every face that has ever been shown in the > current session must be automatically added to `face-name-history'? No one suggested such absurdity. I could turn the table and ask you whether it would make sense to let users customize insertion into history by file-name wildcards. After all, some user, somewhere, may wish to insert *.cpp files, but not *.cxx, right? That way lies madness. > That is the kind of argument I am making here: give users the _possibility_ of > including, as part of `file-name-history', file names not actually typed in the > minibuffer. But give them also the ability to _choose_ which such names get > added, as defined by how the files were chosen for access. Different strokes > for different folks. User options should serve specific workflows or use cases that make sense. So far, I've given my use cases, but haven't heard any others that contradict my experience. It would be nice to hear such real-life experiences, for a change. That would make this discussion a whole lot more productive. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 13:55:48 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 18:55:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58521 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuSif-0007Z2-Bf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:55:46 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:51425) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuSib-0007Yo-UO for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:55:43 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0DItFIi018590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:55:16 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0DItEXp002300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:55:14 GMT Received: from abhmt105.oracle.com (abhmt105.oracle.com [141.146.116.57]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0DItDZK010452; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:55:13 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:55:13 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <83ip72s15g.fsf@gnu.org> <95D0D9D79F6C43FC8DA324988AFF23E0@us.oracle.com> <838v7xrnux.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:55:05 -0800 Message-ID: <8AAC568AC91D477F96BE4F920616C3BA@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <838v7xrnux.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac3xs8f4S7f+rxadQb6UbzHfd/V7/AAAGbyw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: cyd@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > > So it should be clear to anyone who actually reads what I > > wrote that I am _not against_ the idea of extending input > > histories beyond minibuffer reading to other ways of > > invoking the same behavior (in this case, accessing files). > > You could have fooled me. Apparently. As I said, it should be clear to anyone who actually reads what I wrote. Can't say it any clearer: I am all in favor of letting users choose to automatically add to an "input" history when they choose things (including file names) in ways other than just by typing the name at a minibuffer prompt. I am in favor of letting users _choose_ to do that, and choose specifically whether to do it for different kinds of things (e.g., file names, as one kind) and for different ways of choosing things (e.g., menu access, as one way). > > But I also made it clear that it is important for users to > > be able to control whether and where and how much this is > > done. I argued against an automatic handling of all displayed > > files by simply adding their names to `file-name-history' > > willy nilly. > > What is fundamentally different between typing a file name > at "C-x C-f" prompt, and selecting a file name via the file > selection dialog after clicking "File->Visit New File" on the > menu bar? Why would the former end up in the history, but > not the latter? Why indeed? User preference - that's the difference that counts. (For some definition of "fundamentally different" there are no fundamental differences. For any difference pointed to, you can reply that it is not "fundamental".) Certainly there is a difference between the two interactions you mention. And users can differ in whether they prefer that both interactions augment the history. Until now, Emacs Dev has preferred that only one of them do that. Emacs Dev specifically _rejected_ the proposal to treat both menu access and minibuffer-input access the same wrt input history. Why? Ask yourself what the "fundamental difference" was behind that rejection. Certainly some difference was comprehended, and it must have seemed "fundamental" enough to Emacs Dev. Well, that difference can obviously be important to some users - it has been important enough that Emacs Dev decided, for _all_ users, against treating the two the same. Certainly Emacs Dev must have been right wrt at least some users. > > Would you argue, for instance, that every face that has > > ever been shown in the current session must be automatically > > added to `face-name-history'? > > No one suggested such absurdity. Precisely. > I could turn the table and ask you whether it would make sense to let > users customize insertion into history by file-name wildcards. After > all, some user, somewhere, may wish to insert *.cpp files, but not > *.cxx, right? That way lies madness. No one suggested such absurdity. But you are welcome to. (In Icicles you can in fact retrieve a previously used completion pattern, but it is on a different history list, as mentioned previously.) > User options should serve specific workflows or use cases that make > sense. So far, I've given my use cases, but haven't heard any others > that contradict my experience. It would be nice to hear such > real-life experiences, for a change. That would make this discussion > a whole lot more productive. You've already heard from a couple people (not me) who mentioned that blanket inclusion would pollute their histories with too much noise, and who cited a previous thread for reference. Their message was thanks, but no thanks. The point is that users are different. User A (a la Emacs Dev) does not want menu access, but only `M-x' access, to contribute to the input history. User B wants them both to contribute. User C wants also command-line args from Emacs startup and emacsclient file args to contribute. User D wants also file names used as shell-command args to contribute, but only from shell use inside Emacs. User E wants Emacs to try also to get file-name args from shell commands used outside Emacs, and add those too. User F wants to include files opened from *grep*, but not from Dired. User G wants files opened from Dired, but only when opened singly (not all marked etc.). User H wants even the names of files copied using Dired (`C'). User I wants those, as well as the names of Dired subdirs inserted (`i') and `C-x C-d' targets, both dirs and file names matching wildcard patterns. User J wants the names of files acted on in Dired using `A', `Q', `B', `S', `P', and `Z'. User K... I already agreed that each of the possibilities you listed in _your_ use case can be useful: "They, and others, can all be useful." Good suggestion of some possibilities to consider. Just let users decide which, if any, of them they want for their own use. That's all. Why should Emacs hard-wire Eli's choice of user interactions as the only one to define when names are to be included? It should be easy enough to come up with a list of possible file-choosing interactions - like you did, and then present the user with an option that allows a choice of which interactions should augment `file-name-history'. (Similarly, for other histories, and perhaps another, short list covering all histories.) The list for file-name preferences could be fixed by Emacs Dev. (Or it could perhaps even be extendable, if we devise a means to map interaction names to controlling code. To be clear, I have no such code in my pocket now.) If you like, Eli's Preferred Interactions could even serve for the default value of the option controlling file-name inclusion: * minibuffer input * menu access * emacsclient file-name arg * RET in Dired (mouse too? `e', `f', `o', `C-o', `a', `F' too?) * files previously visited in the same session but since killed Did I get your preferred list right? Sounds like a good start, to me. Turn those all on for the default behavior, if you like. But should Dired perhaps have its own option governing file interactions (see above for possibilities)? That might make sense too. Likewise, some other modes (e.g. grep/compilation mode). My point is only to give individual users the choice. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 14:53:09 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 19:53:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58586 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuTcC-0001Sz-QP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:53:09 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f46.google.com ([209.85.219.46]:61315) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuTcA-0001SP-RP for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:53:07 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id h16so3395329oag.33 for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:52:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8OSS+hwQaAQqd8J6ddko68TzRXGuvSokZFGqtkQ9si4=; b=E9mBahtiHKvf2P92iofQF6/svxwSKhApkVobnqdM1zycMzPUGHp8kT/vbtTehutE5p wGsH1nITw6WEye3tLSxlHueg2yEsZ2STlmsjQxQozig1MwO1QBU6URS0aoxOjNAdg7gX Q6dAGYKrO3wsLizMyQm/rwV5Zclamv6Cwu0kjIybyjuj0qAhE199aaLX8FdV1ItXbv7A HzfvooQtDT96qPwYveMJsmz2wvexfL5WWMMBDmhnrFjJp2etBkTJXaxbhy4Sge/V1FW1 tSlcq9Teley2Xd4CRyXXQERSehKU+YStTTuS88lpMA5nOyUuv5X9yGQcpzlx5Y2tUH/W rchg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.146.13 with SMTP id sy13mr59412799obb.45.1358106760501; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.11.39 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:52:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 20:52:40 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files From: Dani Moncayo To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Juri Linkov , Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) >> Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but what I had in mind was adding to >> the history every file visited _under direct user request_ (with >> either `C-x C-f', drag-n-drop, click on dired buffer, jump to >> bookmark, menu item, command line argument, etc). > > Do you agree that "file displayed" is a good enough approximation? > What are the cases where Emacs displays a file without it being "under > direct user request"? I'm not quite sure, but I think that your approximation could fail in cases where some lisp program visits and displays files as part of its functioning, but I don't have a concrete use case right now. -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 15:25:02 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 20:25:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58653 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuU71-0002Fo-Uo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 15:25:01 -0500 Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:36457) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuU6z-0002Fc-TG for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 15:24:58 -0500 Received: by mail-ob0-f172.google.com with SMTP id za17so3317632obc.3 for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:24:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=1sjm0MWpDmJK9kmeY1Ap9OcBFDO+Z2Oi6H3jLyhha98=; b=NZ+SmrFm8nULN0T7Al3jzwoJ9olOlaiNuTyGwHYrwuhNW3gD8BI66IYQXv+QCAoR6W /LURvRAbKOCCy7ObKfRqo1dOuj7l6+cwZio/ez9q1BkraO1icMVeotJcEYy97nE0/WJy WF2L3R0rBXodLJR8qzaFB5qOJl3LaXYW4aNQ5p+6aPJDGJcU3L2z/NipzY7Po3qZOFGI 5HDl+NghgH0ny3AvVFU+HzK5JmVDk3oC1TDXNj1nqKldRuA14quY26q1dPW0URCrMV5P LQFG7xyWruPo4+OL0M7Uh8VOKOquSYztqP1uBTiWCZ00kH4CaiLQaAgNlotiBtkpSrLV 9olw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.1.168 with SMTP id 8mr30903289oen.46.1358108671382; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.11.39 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:24:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:24:31 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50;Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files From: Dani Moncayo To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Chong Yidong , Stefan Monnier , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) > Users should be able to specify the name-adding behavior they want. Simply > adding the name of every file that gets displayed, no matter how, does not give > users the control they deserve. FWIW, I'd not need such degree of control. Simply adding to the history every file I've explicitly visited would be TRT. I'm not sure whether there is a real demand for such degree of control, but if there is, go ahead... -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 17:34:44 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 22:34:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuW8a-0005OL-MH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:34:44 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:46820) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuW8Y-0005OA-VH for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:34:43 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqQHAG6Zu09FpZpV/2dsb2JhbABEgXuuTYE1ghSBCIIVAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYHCxQYDSQuh24FugmQRAOIQppxgViDBw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="212437835" Received: from 69-165-154-85.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.154.85]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Jan 2013 17:34:16 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5B9C058A07; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:34:15 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Dani Moncayo Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files Message-ID: References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:34:15 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Dani Moncayo's message of "Sun, 13 Jan 2013 20:52:40 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Juri Linkov , Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) > I'm not quite sure, but I think that your approximation could fail in > cases where some lisp program visits and displays files as part of its > functioning, but I don't have a concrete use case right now. Any programmatic solution will have false negatives and/or false positives, so "no concrete use case" sounds like an endorsement to me. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 13 17:45:42 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2013 22:45:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58766 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuWJC-0005dx-DE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:45:42 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:19693) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TuWJA-0005dk-6L for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:45:40 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqQHAG6Zu09FpZpV/2dsb2JhbABEgXuuTYE1ghSBCIIVAQEEAVYjEAs0BwsUGA0kiBwFugmQRAOIQppxgViDBw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="212438226" Received: from 69-165-154-85.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.154.85]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Jan 2013 17:45:14 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id EC61658A07; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:45:13 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Message-ID: References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:45:13 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:13:33 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Chong Yidong' , 'Dani Moncayo' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> What are the cases where Emacs displays a file without it being "under >> direct user request"? > You are playing with words here: No, you're simply misreading me. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 14 02:56:28 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2013 07:56:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59090 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tueu5-0006Dz-Tl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:56:28 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:55788 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tuety-0006Dm-Iv for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:56:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F13DA258B9E920; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 23:55:49 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: Dani Moncayo Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files Organization: JURTA References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:52:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Dani Moncayo's message of "Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:15:45 +0100") Message-ID: <87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but what I had in mind was adding to > the history every file visited _under direct user request_ (with > either `C-x C-f', drag-n-drop, click on dired buffer, jump to > bookmark, menu item, command line argument, etc). My observations were the result of the experiment when I optimistically tried this feature, but quickly became annoyed by too many unnecessary elements added by direct user request in dired, next-error, etc to the minibuffer history. When I browse a lot of files using dired then I likely re-visit them again with the same dired commands, not with C-x C-f. OTOH, I expect to see only files visited with C-x C-f in the history of C-x C-f. What do you think about adding these file names not to the history but to the suggestions like in web browsers where the top elements of the suggestions drop-down list are the most frequently visited pages (in Emacs this would mean the most frequently visited files). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 14 03:18:33 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2013 08:18:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59095 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TufFZ-0006j0-4S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:18:33 -0500 Received: from mail-oa0-f44.google.com ([209.85.219.44]:32782) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TufFV-0006il-Ke for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:18:31 -0500 Received: by mail-oa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id n5so3734842oag.3 for <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:18:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=VeD23VK5kxqoLj2ZJaSMg5o6f5SwT3RyZe2PBSocthU=; b=n3CWvB+uPuz6r1ln300xn0dUVFws7QnXSl+n8P8Lx/Q2P+FFbaJ4WsKXY5aKPJECBu PLrJaVQs26y6TXO6LUMawQHZMiPw+RsiccjTj7VEI+N7kCkGihIjLteXH09BR+cmjfBY ei64iGVc3s2oKiKfLQHFwb7w7DTZq/ESMI3SfYsGrAiirITefTRvRyGAekrn+4/20w3k DytRfTYRSBRJ1V0OeU9C1tfz47Lo7yQkNGj2wzO6Q18YdP48Y1qUGvMOmv+0Beu9b8Z0 z1YFIe8Dw1P0IJ9yJbCA3E6xhb5r3J+yYofz7qMjDRYZepuKcC05f1Jwab1FF2khg/69 qZ7Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.146.13 with SMTP id sy13mr60462342obb.45.1358151481163; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.11.39 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:18:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:18:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files From: Dani Moncayo To: Juri Linkov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Chong Yidong , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Juri Linkov wrote: > My observations were the result of the experiment when I optimistically > tried this feature, but quickly became annoyed by too many unnecessary > elements added by direct user request in dired, next-error, etc > to the minibuffer history. When I browse a lot of files using dired > then I likely re-visit them again with the same dired commands, > not with C-x C-f. OTOH, I expect to see only files visited with C-x C-f > in the history of C-x C-f. > > What do you think about adding these file names not to the history > but to the suggestions like in web browsers where the top elements of > the suggestions drop-down list are the most frequently visited pages > (in Emacs this would mean the most frequently visited files). For my use cases, I'd prefer the files get added to the history. It would be more intuitive for me, because I think of that list as the list of files I've visited so far. I understand your point too, therefore I think that maybe Drew was right: not all of us (users) want the same behavior here, thus such behavior should be customizable. -- Dani Moncayo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 14 10:18:40 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2013 15:18:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60068 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tulo7-0001OJ-Ow for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:18:40 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:44046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tulo5-0001OA-Ok for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:18:38 -0500 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r0EFIBYd007589; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:18:12 -0500 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CC5E7AE3F4; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:18:10 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history of visited files Message-ID: References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:18:10 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:52:35 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4461=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4461> : streams <889592> : uri <1318742> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong , Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > to the minibuffer history. When I browse a lot of files using dired > then I likely re-visit them again with the same dired commands, > not with C-x C-f. OTOH, I expect to see only files visited with C-x C-f > in the history of C-x C-f. Thanks, yes, that makes a lot of sense (tho obviously it depends on your use pattern). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 14 10:46:01 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2013 15:46:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60087 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TumEa-00022j-1m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:46:00 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:18599) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TumEW-00022U-Ob for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:45:57 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0EFjP8Y022441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:45:26 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0EFjMau021488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:45:23 GMT Received: from abhmt113.oracle.com (abhmt113.oracle.com [141.146.116.65]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0EFjMHn020218; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:45:22 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:45:22 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" , "'Dani Moncayo'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:45:11 -0800 Message-ID: <65F6EBA42246485393472446D6597C96@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Ac3yLLfQTRyE31qbSP2IhkrA1HOEPQAPCApQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > > Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but what I had in mind was adding to > > the history every file visited _under direct user request_ (with > > either `C-x C-f', drag-n-drop, click on dired buffer, jump to > > bookmark, menu item, command line argument, etc). > > My observations were the result of the experiment when I optimistically > tried this feature, but quickly became annoyed by too many unnecessary > elements added by direct user request in dired, next-error, etc > to the minibuffer history. When I browse a lot of files using dired > then I likely re-visit them again with the same dired commands, > not with C-x C-f. OTOH, I expect to see only files visited > with C-x C-f in the history of C-x C-f. > > What do you think about adding these file names not to the history > but to the suggestions like in web browsers where the top elements of > the suggestions drop-down list are the most frequently visited pages > (in Emacs this would mean the most frequently visited files). No, I think they belong in the history - they name files that were in fact chosen by the user in the past. That's history. But you and other users should be able to choose not to include such names, which were never entered as minibuffer input. Your experiment and your conclusion should serve as a valuable lesson: one person's convenience is another's inconvenience. So history, yes, but optionally, please. --- I will add, with Dired as an example, that the use of file _display_ as the sole criterion for history inclusion is flawed in the opposite direction: including too few, not too many, file names. It is misguided (off target). As an example, the use of non-display/visit commands in Dired, which act on a file but do not display it, should constitute another potential source of file names to add to the history. `file-name-history' was designed to be augmented by `read-file-name', whenever a file name is input. That includes commands that do not display/visit the file. This way of interactively choosing files should not be ignored, just because someone finds an easy way to hook history augmentation into file-buffer display. That a command such as `dired-do-compress' (`Z'), `dired-do-copy' (`C'), or `dired-do-byte-compile' (`B') does not augment `file-name-history', simply because it involves a different user interaction from reading the file name, is a bit silly. The user chooses a file interactively; s?he just does not need to type the file name. Such a command is in effect a wrapper around a command that uses `read-file-name'. It provides for different user interaction - nothing more. The same is true for a mouse command such as `dired-mouse-find-file-other-window' (`mouse-2'): it's just a wrapper around `find-file-other-window', in order to provide a different user interaction. A user should at least have the possibility to include names of files acted on in these ways. _Display_ of a chosen file is not an adequate criterion. It's about the user choosing a file name, nothing more. (Whether that should happen for all marked files in Dired or only when a key such as `C' is used with no files marked is a different question.) The same thing holds for commands that use `completing-read' instead of `read-file-name'. Commands that are wrappers of, or otherwise substitutes for, such input-reading commands, do not augment the history today. They should (optionally). Using a menu or a mouse click to invoke an action that can also be invoked by a command that reads input in the minibuffer should (optionally) add the target name to the history. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 14 10:51:06 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2013 15:51:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60091 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TumJS-0002AL-DE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:51:06 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:24207) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TumJM-00029o-Uw for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:51:01 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0EFoNx3031242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:50:24 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0EFoL27000678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:50:21 GMT Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0EFoLuH014220; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:50:21 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:50:21 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Juri Linkov'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org><87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:50:11 -0800 Message-ID: <2FEBCE607430475CA4C865FBD8937E75@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac3yansj0lUdg1kSSPCD+Tc41/xoWwAA9K6Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) > > to the minibuffer history. When I browse a lot of files using dired > > then I likely re-visit them again with the same dired commands, > > not with C-x C-f. OTOH, I expect to see only files visited > > with C-x C-f in the history of C-x C-f. > > Thanks, yes, that makes a lot of sense Just as it makes a lot of sense to other users to include those files in the history, so they _can_ access them using `C-x C-f' with `M-p', `M-s' etc. > (tho obviously it depends on your use pattern). That is precisely the point. So make it possible, but not mandatory, for a user to have such Dired commands augment `file-name-history'. Let individual users choose the behavior they want. And this applies just as much to commands (e.g. `C') that act on a file but do not display it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 15 05:42:19 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2013 10:42:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60962 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tv3yE-0008Uy-LJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2013 05:42:19 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:46097 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tv3yB-0008Up-Os for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2013 05:42:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22632017DF60D; Tue, 15 Jan 2013 02:41:44 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Organization: JURTA References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <65F6EBA42246485393472446D6597C96@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:57:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <65F6EBA42246485393472446D6597C96@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:45:11 -0800") Message-ID: <87obgqpw9n.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Chong Yidong' , 'Dani Moncayo' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) > `file-name-history' was designed to be augmented by `read-file-name', whenever a > file name is input. That includes commands that do not display/visit the file. > This way of interactively choosing files should not be ignored, just because > someone finds an easy way to hook history augmentation into file-buffer display. A new variable (e.g. `file-name-history-variable') could be introduced to hold the name of the history variable. The default would be the currently existing `file-name-history'. And the other possible value would be a new history variable (e.g. `file-name-extended-history') that will collect all visited/displayed file names like: (defvar file-name-history nil "History list of file names entered in the minibuffer.") (defvar file-name-extended-history nil "History list of files visited/displayed in the current session.") (defcustom file-name-history-variable 'file-name-history "History list to use in the minibuffer that reads a file name. The value of this variable should be a symbol; that symbol is used as a variable to hold a history list for the file names." :group 'files :type 'symbol) Then the users would be able to customize it to `file-name-extended-history': (custom-set-variables '(file-name-history-variable file-name-extended-history)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 15 10:08:38 2013 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2013 15:08:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33548 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tv87x-0007FR-E9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:08:38 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:34509) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tv87v-0007FH-7V for 12915@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:08:36 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0FF83Tx031970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:08:04 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0FF82fr013837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:08:03 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0FF82a6001388; Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:08:02 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.246.149) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 15 Jan 2013 07:08:02 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" References: <87obgug641.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwwd76ll.fsf@mail.jurta.org><87d2x842ws.fsf@mail.jurta.org><65F6EBA42246485393472446D6597C96@us.oracle.com> <87obgqpw9n.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#12915: 24.2.50; Visiting a file via drag-and-drop should add it to the history ofvisited files Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 07:07:59 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87obgqpw9n.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Ac3zDOuCATLfJDW5TKCjjchDYzhqXwAJHoZA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Chong Yidong' , 'Dani Moncayo' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > `file-name-history' was designed to be augmented by > > `read-file-name', whenever a file name is input. That includes > > commands that do not display/visit the file. > > This way of interactively choosing files should not be > > ignored, just because someone finds an easy way to hook history > > augmentation into file-buffer display. > > A new variable (e.g. `file-name-history-variable') could be introduced > to hold the name of the history variable. The default would be the > currently existing `file-name-history'. And the other possible value > would be a new history variable (e.g. `file-name-extended-history') > that will collect all visited/displayed file names like: > > (defvar file-name-history nil > "History list of file names entered in the minibuffer.") > > (defvar file-name-extended-history nil > "History list of files visited/displayed in the current session.") > > (defcustom file-name-history-variable 'file-name-history > "History list to use in the minibuffer that reads a file name. > The value of this variable should be a symbol; that symbol > is used as a variable to hold a history list for the file names." > :group 'files > :type 'symbol) > > Then the users would be able to customize it to > `file-name-extended-history': > > (custom-set-variables > '(file-name-history-variable file-name-extended-history)) Having separate variables does not deal with the heart of the problem being discussed. `read-file-name' already adds correctly to the history. The problem is that some commands that let users choose files without entering a name - i.e., which do _not_ use `read-file-name', should also (optionally) augment the history. A mouse-click or menu command that just wraps a command that if called interactively would use `read-file-name' should itself (optionally) augment the history. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 06 18:20:40 2013 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2013 23:20:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40140 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U3EIC-0007zY-5k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2013 18:20:40 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:54720) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U3EIA-0007zR-8e for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2013 18:20:38 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U3EGt-0006ej-Fk for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2013 18:19:19 -0500 Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 18:19:19 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 12915 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) forcemerge 3909 12915 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 18 15:21:55 2021 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2021 19:21:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5CMN-0002Ds-C7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 15:21:55 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:37192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5CML-0002Dd-Po; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 15:21:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ONMpFSDEeIeGFfZbqHbI26lr5Eq0hM/mXiH5bepmoe0=; b=VNqi5ORVrlUTp85WkEQqzHf1n6 YDt5qBGYFVF1enL542hjGHi3yRFUA7vln/qoo7eBxwtZhYALIOI49TxjMBtLWmtWZGtRyRG8ee/zZ ZPwhDtOK5YESm0tFPJNJldS3l0CxRmrzXhiuzc2ERuZ7cyttYZEgmf8YF4yShWenGlYc=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m5CMC-0003Qp-FN; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 21:21:46 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Dani Moncayo Subject: Re: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? References: X-Now-Playing: David Bowie's _The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars_: "Suffragette City" Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 21:21:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Dani Moncayo's message of "Sat, 17 Nov 2012 22:37:36 +0100") Message-ID: <87v957mnqw.fsf_-_@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Dani Moncayo writes: >>> Please, when a file is visited via drag-and-drop, add that file to the >>> history of visited files (so that I can revisit it with `C-x C-f M-p', >>> for example). I don't see the point of not doi [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 3909@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Dani Moncayo writes: >>> Please, when a file is visited via drag-and-drop, add that file to the >>> history of visited files (so that I can revisit it with `C-x C-f M-p', >>> for example). I don't see the point of not doing that. >> >> On a related note, I've always found it irritating that the same is true >> of files specified on the command line: >> >> emacs -Q README & >> C-x C-k README RET >> C-x C-f M-p >> -> "Beginning of history; no preceding item" > > Indeed. The history of visited files should contain every visited > file, regardless of the way it was visited (command line argument, > drag-n-drop, menu item, C-x C-f...) The discussion here veered off into generalities, and nothing was done. The two practical suggestions were: 1) To add an optional parameter to `find-file' to make it push the filename onto `file-name-history'. Then we could adjust callers according to taste: I think drag and drop and command line arguments should land on the history. 2) To add a `display-buffer-hook' to do the same if the file actually ends up being displayed, so this pushing would happen deep in `find-file-noselect'. I think 1) is attractive in that it's very straightforward and simple to understand. 2) is attractive in that we don't put file names into the history unless we actually read the file, and we don't have to adjust function parameters for the other `find-file-*' commands, too. I think I prefer 1), because it's easier to reason about. Anybody got an opinion? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 18 17:08:50 2021 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2021 21:08:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57514 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5E1q-0000g3-K0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 17:08:50 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:62194) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5E1k-0000fm-U7; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 17:08:45 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246632.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 16IL2qr7000849; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 21:08:44 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; 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Sun, 18 Jul 2021 21:08:40 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1d3c:d31b:8add:1958]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1d3c:d31b:8add:1958%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4331.032; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 21:08:40 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Dani Moncayo Subject: RE: [External] : bug#12915: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#12915: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e6ae2c8b-0c74-406e-eb2a-08d94a3037aa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jul 2021 21:08:40.1454 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2RWvcMP17HNFhi2frG9FCU472HK0AIyS9wxPHyBiLngepai3CT1siD9Qi+cJQwsz/HNQdLO8n6gcS0IivqPFvA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR10MB4051 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=10049 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104190000 definitions=main-2107180143 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: N6Z0qxXVW7-4rba2C4rl3naAl5no9D3t X-Proofpoint-GUID: N6Z0qxXVW7-4rba2C4rl3naAl5no9D3t X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , "12915@debbugs.gnu.org" <12915@debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier , "3909@debbugs.gnu.org" <3909@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > The two practical suggestions were: >=20 > 1) To add an optional parameter to `find-file' to make it push the > filename onto `file-name-history'. Then we could adjust callers > according to taste: I think drag and drop and command line arguments > should land on the history. >=20 > 2) To add a `display-buffer-hook' to do the same if the file actually > ends up being displayed, so this pushing would happen deep in > `find-file-noselect'. >=20 > I think 1) is attractive in that it's very straightforward and simple to > understand. 2) is attractive in that we don't put file names into the > history unless we actually read the file, and we don't have to adjust > function parameters for the other `find-file-*' commands, too. >=20 > I think I prefer 1), because it's easier to reason about. >=20 > Anybody got an opinion? In the #12915 thread both Juri and I argued for having (multiple) means of _user_ control. And several such means were suggested. I said, for example: Give users the _possibility_ of including, as part of `file-name-history', file names not actually typed in the minibuffer. But give them also the ability to _choose_ which such names get added, as defined by how the files were chosen for access. Juri said, specifically to argue against your #1:: Since this is a matter of personal preference, I think not Lisp callers but Emacs users should be able to specify what to add to the history. There are lots of good suggestions in the thread - many specific and some based on actual implementation and use. Asking "Anybody got an opinion?" is an invitation to ignore lots of opinions already carefully expressed.=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 18 18:39:50 2021 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2021 22:39:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57562 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5FRu-0002m2-61 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:39:50 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:44737) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5FRs-0002ln-Uo; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:39:49 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 014CD20005; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 22:39:39 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#12915: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? References: <87v957mnqw.fsf_-_@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 01:32:05 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87v957mnqw.fsf_-_@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 18 Jul 2021 21:21:43 +0200") Message-ID: <87y2a3i78a.fsf@linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, 3909@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > 1) To add an optional parameter to `find-file' to make it push the > filename onto `file-name-history'. Then we could adjust callers > according to taste: I think drag and drop and command line arguments > should land on the history. I don't think anyone would object to such patch: diff --git a/lisp/startup.el b/lisp/startup.el index 456c01efd1..46252e7b93 100644 --- a/lisp/startup.el +++ b/lisp/startup.el @@ -2391,6 +2391,7 @@ command-line-1 (command-line-normalize-file-name name) dir)) (buf (find-file-noselect file))) + (add-to-history 'file-name-history (abbreviate-file-name file)) (setq displayable-buffers (cons buf displayable-buffers)) ;; Set the file buffer to the current buffer so ;; that it will be used with "--eval" and And the same for drag and drop. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 18 18:50:57 2021 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2021 22:50:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5Fcf-00032H-0O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:50:57 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38704) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5Fcc-00031z-RR; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:50:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=CfoiDvpSZ485rTSvKlQwmSZrVObtDde4g3NCOBKHr3s=; b=T52otU3y92YIT/jOB4vK5LeDfb 0pkcLz1jof1DS/k8xwQK+7tkHdAlsONJUtw42XmpPaLbOkOUlnLW9Qc+djhYoE6bDBvupFVN0Tokf uE0hj4T33dbe5nk7tZ/JFVPOaQqMxKIaboxTsoCQBjloKfnp0Z0J6+qxdNhrHZ1pNZfY=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m5FcS-0004ux-96; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 00:50:46 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#12915: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? References: <87v957mnqw.fsf_-_@gnus.org> <87y2a3i78a.fsf@linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEVTUlYrKi19fYGj pKjz8/T///+yhuWBAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+UHEhYxBBv2f/wAAAGHSURBVDjLbZPt YYQwCIZBMwDpdQCvdwN4kgGsYf+ZGgiJX80PNTzyAuYVAACjLQK96BP4qvGyHX5+ACYYphrHFseR eWJ+lWsJU0vAiC5FMh8zdumHg04AyfahAVAVigieJOcMJEIjjw5qHChWEES2BopS0cdaqIC8S1Hr GzCJyD57GQi1Rnm4Ap+VDKStiSVmwApEV+1rnCnpsxUbNe7VQ6ay2QZrKyhYHSTWt+qgCpJP+Jaq a0RrszcVpBNrKreP+K1CGoA6Rm5HqKXzoI2RgaaEXy4lHzDQj8NrLFNxwhGQv8/AJ4ANiNkjNKCu 8JWPQGe6ZvRzTZ6QF5s2dxBqOPFiLe7gkVX/ZSXwKBULYIx9KDSA5ZsOQdb6J5TDgin6cWvkNbtH uovNHM3x9b9xp6pxJZ6XZVB5Pz11O3VABpDi+6NNzyegNsfwW24MF6Cjr+M28nYHahNOnztQA+Qc b8DMIPPzBvTrcg54BZbAy3qX0viY8A7ewvO493SssQDE/wCf4wr+AKAOadJ+NaBFAAAAJXRFWHRk YXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTA3LTE4VDIyOjQ5OjA0KzAwOjAwnI7QyAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2Rp ZnkAMjAyMS0wNy0xOFQyMjo0OTowNCswMDowMO3TaHQAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: David Bowie's _"Heroes"_: ""Heroes"" Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 00:50:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87y2a3i78a.fsf@linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Mon, 19 Jul 2021 01:32:05 +0300") Message-ID: <878s23me2l.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: >> 1) To add an optional parameter to `find-file' to make it push the >> filename onto `file-name-history'. Then we could adjust callers >> according to taste: I think drag and drop and command line a [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, 3909@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: >> 1) To add an optional parameter to `find-file' to make it push the >> filename onto `file-name-history'. Then we could adjust callers >> according to taste: I think drag and drop and command line arguments >> should land on the history. > > I don't think anyone would object to such patch: [...] > @@ -2391,6 +2391,7 @@ command-line-1 > (command-line-normalize-file-name name) > dir)) > (buf (find-file-noselect file))) > + (add-to-history 'file-name-history (abbreviate-file-name file)) I thought it might be nice to have these "extra" additions to `file-name-history' in one central place (in case we decide to make it optional). But I guess we could just have a function like `add-to-file-name-history' if we wanted to future-proof that? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 19 11:43:56 2021 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2021 15:43:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59946 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5VQy-0005Xo-Eh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:43:56 -0400 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:46257) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5VQw-0005XS-Q0; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:43:55 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E3998E0003; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 15:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#12915: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87v957mnqw.fsf_-_@gnus.org> <87y2a3i78a.fsf@linkov.net> <878s23me2l.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:24:08 +0300 In-Reply-To: <878s23me2l.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 19 Jul 2021 00:50:42 +0200") Message-ID: <87h7gqnzj3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, 3909@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >>> 1) To add an optional parameter to `find-file' to make it push the >>> filename onto `file-name-history'. Then we could adjust callers >>> according to taste: I think drag and drop and command line arguments >>> should land on the history. >> >> @@ -2391,6 +2391,7 @@ command-line-1 >> (command-line-normalize-file-name name) >> dir)) >> (buf (find-file-noselect file))) >> + (add-to-history 'file-name-history (abbreviate-file-name file)) > > I thought it might be nice to have these "extra" additions to > `file-name-history' in one central place (in case we decide to make it > optional). `find-file' can't be such central place, because there are many other file-reading commands like find-file-other-window, find-file-other-frame, … Long ago I tried: (defun add-file-name-to-history () "Add the name of the file just opened to the history." (when (and buffer-file-name (not buffer-read-only)) (add-to-history 'file-name-history buffer-file-name))) (add-hook 'find-file-hook 'add-file-name-to-history) (add-hook 'first-change-hook 'add-file-name-to-history) But it clutters up the history. Maybe a new defcustom e.g. `add-file-name-commands' could help with such options as a list of command names to selectively add their args to the history, or a regexp of command names. > But I guess we could just have a function like > `add-to-file-name-history' if we wanted to future-proof that? This is not specific to the file history, the same requests were about e.g. describe-function, describe-variable, … So also tried: (define-advice describe-function (:before (function)) "Add function name to the history." (when (and function (symbolp function)) (add-to-history 'minibuffer-history (symbol-name function)))) (define-advice describe-variable (:before (variable &optional _buffer _frame)) "Add variable name to the history." (when (and variable (symbolp variable)) (add-to-history 'minibuffer-history (symbol-name variable)))) (define-advice describe-symbol (:before (symbol &optional _buffer _frame)) "Add symbol name to the history." (when (and symbol (symbolp symbol)) (add-to-history 'minibuffer-history (symbol-name symbol)))) But still too much clutter. Maybe a more general defcustom is needed that will accept a list of 3 parameters: command name, its argument number, and a history variable, e.g. '((find-file-other-window 1 file-name-history) …) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 19 11:51:41 2021 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2021 15:51:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5VYM-0007zQ-Tz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:51:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5VYL-0007z7-8L; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:51:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=S+W1mokRcDSN69mbBtsB4dEp08ngfzc49q+T4mJNXDs=; b=jtKNrFfMVIoJPDFfSjo5OlfTkM M4l8MZX6nTMUSSR1bKKUveMafHkMJJbO3Ux9FMaSadwhSHav/TOQU6Ur9x9HWmyWg0w9YSue7T3kz 6/pR9UU10tAfErBlyAJVm/ESKwpOhqEzKCqWubD3mUXVsPfNQtWo1UH0yxzOTgsylNnU=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m5VYB-0008Sa-W5; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 17:51:26 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#12915: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? References: <87v957mnqw.fsf_-_@gnus.org> <87y2a3i78a.fsf@linkov.net> <878s23me2l.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7gqnzj3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Now-Playing: Chuck Person's _Chuck Person's Eccojams Vol. 1_: "A8" Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 17:51:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87h7gqnzj3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:24:08 +0300") Message-ID: <878s22l2tg.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: >> But I guess we could just have a function like >> `add-to-file-name-history' if we wanted to future-proof that? > > This is not specific to the file history, the same requests were about > e.g. des [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, 3909@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: >> But I guess we could just have a function like >> `add-to-file-name-history' if we wanted to future-proof that? > > This is not specific to the file history, the same requests were about > e.g. describe-function, describe-variable, =E2=80=A6 So also tried: I think you're over-thinking this. :-) There's a lot of controversial things we could be doing in the history area, but we're not doing it, because: > But still too much clutter. Adding drag'n'drop file names and command name file names isn't controversial, and can be done easily, so we should just do that. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 19 18:02:04 2021 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2021 22:02:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60546 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5bKu-0002jN-Kj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:02:04 -0400 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:56705) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5bKs-0002iX-GO; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:02:03 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7180EE0002; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 22:01:53 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#12915: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87v957mnqw.fsf_-_@gnus.org> <87y2a3i78a.fsf@linkov.net> <878s23me2l.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7gqnzj3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <878s22l2tg.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 00:57:24 +0300 In-Reply-To: <878s22l2tg.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 19 Jul 2021 17:51:23 +0200") Message-ID: <8735savuez.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org, 3909@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Dani Moncayo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Juri Linkov writes: > >>> But I guess we could just have a function like >>> `add-to-file-name-history' if we wanted to future-proof that? >> >> This is not specific to the file history, the same requests were about >> e.g. describe-function, describe-variable, … So also tried: > > I think you're over-thinking this. :-) I completely agree. > There's a lot of controversial things we could be doing in the history > area, but we're not doing it, because: > >> But still too much clutter. > > Adding drag'n'drop file names and command name file names isn't > controversial, and can be done easily, so we should just do that. Then it should be enough just to add after the find-file call: (add-to-history 'file-name-history (abbreviate-file-name file)) in command-line-1 and drag-n-drop functions. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 20 07:49:08 2021 Received: (at 12915) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2021 11:49:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32999 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5oFH-00024F-TO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 07:49:08 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56352) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5oFF-00023e-R9; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 07:49:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8XbiL6grRZuHULy/XGtHCYemvJyvHpGQhha/EnKdS3U=; b=gwfwFCIktAnpqL5pX2FotyhmWP KUXzqKFVy2bBn93UEV/Zdc8MnhNIVW4kaE/n8JoGzXHTJou213/8IiLESnRLcHyB6YoIOCtVcdhS6 SnLeTGl/HdZbGfzNlwWmBtYCOBNznpXqXVhJewU1DQUMSsRnwCnGBcrj3970VU1a7GXo=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m5oF5-0002h0-4e; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:48:57 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#12915: bug#3909: 23.1.50; Drag drop events in command history? References: <87v957mnqw.fsf_-_@gnus.org> <87y2a3i78a.fsf@linkov.net> <878s23me2l.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7gqnzj3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <878s22l2tg.fsf@gnus.org> <8735savuez.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Now-Playing: Squarepusher's _Be Up A Hello_: "Hitsonu" Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:48:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8735savuez.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Tue, 20 Jul 2021 00:57:24 +0300") Message-ID: <871r7ti4t5.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > Then it should be enough just to add after the find-file call: > > (add-to-history 'file-name-history (abbreviate-file-name file)) > > in command-line-1 and drag-n-drop functions. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12915 Cc: Glenn Morris , 3909@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Dani Moncayo , 12915@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > Then it should be enough just to add after the find-file call: > > (add-to-history 'file-name-history (abbreviate-file-name file)) > > in command-line-1 and drag-n-drop functions. I've now done so, but via a trivial helper function, and I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 20 07:49:13 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2021 11:49:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33002 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5oFN-00024m-4F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 07:49:13 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56366) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m5oFJ-00023z-AF for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 07:49:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xF7TuB0wEAghrc+WYXM/VdZQlOwPLTI2I65fLpZAZ+0=; b=pJG5KKE/zC4efc1DOdD35xo7n2 a77mAhAWWDbYRJbzxxkOETmRMs/5qPcT3Tc39Rj0VcyX5BDB/TRzkJFsY5lnR4ffPJGG3ZnUz3J8k n0FXOEBTNjiYTY7E3TwJ/ht8Ign9yo0CalQbhNC6h4tmEi8pjYYg9peSSnD7L6KFt2zg=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m5oFB-0002h9-KJ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:49:03 +0200 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:49:01 +0200 Message-Id: <87zguhgq8i.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #12915 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 12915 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 12915 28.1 quit From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:19:03 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator