Subject: RE: bug#12908: 24.3.50; file `emacs_backtrace.txt'?

From: "Drew Adams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:40:08 -0800

> > That has been my point from the beginning: I don't really care where
> > you stick it, as long as it is in some Emacs/system internal program
> > folder and not a user folder.
> 
> On Unix, the data winds up in some directory under user's home
> directory.  See the manual.

I don't care what Emacs does on Unix or on Windows.  Or on Peanut Butter.  See
the manual - sheesh.  If Emacs on Unix is just as user-inconsiderate in this
regard as it is on Windows, then it too needs to be sent back for regrooving.

My point is the same: Please do not plop such a file into a user folder.  On any
platform.  It does not belong there.  I just happen to be using Emacs on
Windows, and I reported this problem there.  If it is not Windows-specific, fine
- please fix it wherever it occurs.

You are discussing implementation and platforms, as well you should, no doubt.
But my concern is at the user level.  Please don't mess with user data.  That's
not nice.  And this includes user folders containing user files.

I really don't care about the finger-pointing.  You apparently claim that there
is as much of this problem on Unix as on Windows.  Some others seem to disagree
(though that's not too clear to me).

That does not matter to me.  If there is a problem on platform XYZ, please fix
it on XYZ.  For all XYZ, preferably.  For Windows, at least.

It does not sound like a great argument to say that this will not be fixed on
Windows until someone agrees to fix it on Unix also.  Especially if those who
would presumably be the ones to fix it on Unix do not seem to agree that it is a
problem on Unix (again, I'm not sure that's what the claim is).

IOW, here we go 'round & 'round again.  Musical chairs with a bit of blame game
thrown in, it seems.

I hope the bug gets fixed.  On Windows, at least, this is a regression: Users
have never before had to put up with this Emacs pollution of user folders.
Introducing a regression and then classifying it as `wont-fix' is disingenuous.

Please just restore the state before the regression if you cannot find a good
way to fix the bug and still get the backtrace info you want.  Restore the sane
state while you go on to discuss possible ways to deal with the problem in a
ideal way.  If you never find that ideal way, then leave things as they were
before.

I really do not agree with freewheeling introduction of "improvements" that are
accompanied by regressions or other negative behavior that is then classified as
`wont-fix'.  Be less interested in your creative development than in the
possible harm/annoyance to users of its side effects.

The first rule should be not to do any harm.  The second rule should be that if
you accidentally do some harm while trying to improve something, then undo the
harm.

We have users jump through 39 questions/confirmations just to send a bug-report
message or exit without saving a buffer.  Nice and careful, respectful of user
wishes.  And yet here we are now writing crap to user folders without so much as
a "Do you really want to...?" - or even a "Hey, I just wrote some crap to your
folder XYZ - sorry about that!"