From unknown Thu Sep 11 16:39:33 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#12884 <12884@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#12884 <12884@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.2.50; defun*: argument lists in documentation look terrible Reply-To: bug#12884 <12884@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2025 23:39:33 +0000 retitle 12884 24.2.50; defun*: argument lists in documentation look terrible reassign 12884 emacs submitter 12884 Michael Heerdegen severity 12884 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 14 11:47:34 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Nov 2012 16:47:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42389 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYg7i-00085S-LE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:47:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38146) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYg7f-00085K-Np for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:47:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYg72-0006a1-E8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:46:55 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:55275) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYg72-0006Zw-AV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:46:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45169) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYg6z-0000GB-5E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:46:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYg6w-0006ZG-2G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:46:49 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:54966) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYg6v-0006Xr-OI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:46:45 -0500 Received: from drachen.dragon ([89.204.137.194]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb102) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0M4qav-1TOJKL1WE1-00yrcc; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:46:44 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.2.50; defun*: argument lists in documentation look terrible Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:47:20 +0100 Message-ID: <87ip985dyf.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:RugPdVsicf67HKlB83iKbjEtEwj21qQ0ezwuz1Ww2GB qDnmQDwQyaOSyPQ0unD7zsVIdxPl3pnFk3xmXIOJi74qS5uHoO of63GNAxX+MDPU012xQeaG7o5TVAr9HQs9nOQZTIH2PYqk8H9J P8ovK6l2xNEOMTb1SnYmojC7n5KR3ZBhahK5pyNlrksz0KTCOX j4GVO+oSp2t5uEAW7o/zyi9r8ddayMVijrTEaUJIXk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) If I e.g. define something like that: (defun* my-toggle-item (mode-or-var &key ((:selected enabled-spec) `(am-bound-and-true-p ',mode-or-var)) ((:help help-string) (am-make-symbol-docstring mode-or-var))) "Toggle item creater for modes and flags." ...) the docstring then looks like that for me: | my-toggle-item is a Lisp function. | | (my-toggle-item #:MODE-OR-VAR &key ((:selected #:ENABLED-SPEC) (\` | (am-bound-and-true-p (quote (\, mode-or-var))))) ((:help | #:HELP-STRING) (am-make-symbol-docstring mode-or-var))) | | Toggle item creater for modes and flags. This looks terrible with all this #: and quote \, stuff. The culprit is `cl--transform-lambda', which just uses this: (format "%S" (cons 'fn (cl--make-usage-args orig-args))) I think we can easily improve this, e.g. by using something like (let (print-gensym print-level print-length (print-quoted t)) (format "%S" (cons 'fn (cl--make-usage-args orig-args)))) instead. Looks much better in *Help* and with eldoc. Thanks, Michael. In GNU Emacs 24.2.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.10) of 2012-11-13 on drachen Bzr revision: rgm@gnu.org-20121113081658-e63viomclbw6bjee Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10707000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux testing (wheezy) Configured using: `configure '--prefix=/usr/local/built/'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 14 14:49:51 2012 Received: (at 12884) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Nov 2012 19:49:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42716 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYiy6-0004uL-Ut for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:49:51 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:61659) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYiy4-0004uD-Az for 12884@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:49:48 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAG6Zu09sr+ZY/2dsb2JhbABEsEiDSYEIghUBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHAW6CZBEA4hCmnGBWIMH X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="207621406" Received: from 108-175-230-88.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([108.175.230.88]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 14 Nov 2012 14:49:10 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A26A2594C8; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:49:09 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#12884: 24.2.50; defun*: argument lists in documentation look terrible Message-ID: References: <87ip985dyf.fsf@web.de> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:49:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87ip985dyf.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:47:20 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12884 Cc: 12884@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) > | (my-toggle-item #:MODE-OR-VAR &key ((:selected #:ENABLED-SPEC) (\` > | (am-bound-and-true-p (quote (\, mode-or-var))))) ((:help > | #:HELP-STRING) (am-make-symbol-docstring mode-or-var))) Let me just say that I will resist the urge to tell you what I think about this style of argument list ;-) > This looks terrible with all this #: and quote \, stuff. Binding print-quoted makes sense to improve the quote/backquote syntax. But I don't understand why we have those #: in there. I understand it's there to say the symbols are not interned, but I don't understand why they're not interned. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 14 16:51:24 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Nov 2012 21:51:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42892 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYkrk-0007lU-37 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:51:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48484) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYkrh-0007lN-VG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:51:23 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYkr3-0003Vy-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:50:44 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:52521) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYkr3-0003Vu-C2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:50:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36102) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYkr0-0005xO-9W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:50:41 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYkqx-0003Tl-6r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:50:38 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:59787) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TYkqw-0003TP-UW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:50:35 -0500 Received: from drachen.dragon ([89.204.137.194]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb003) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0MCIoz-1TQGWe0yoL-009Aez; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:50:33 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#12884: 24.2.50; defun*: argument lists in documentation look terrible References: <87ip985dyf.fsf@web.de> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:51:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:49:08 -0500") Message-ID: <87wqxnkg4y.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:Q638WF2wWf963HXv9Y9/LYlihvZJ+YXEtkpaC+YwHC5 E9UloyzSPCN0ghRJNNy1Xae/uYiJK+l8S47+uryZ83PtypR3bD X3uo+IkucIvJ1tEjly0xld8JovYQsUPKjcRWSPGda5aWhEvUdf 5DT2ahsn01G5G7fZsoI3je9gY9fLntqeURImFkxWQ6A3qmWBzY ofwFckED0jABRzVlxy8UXl/irGwiDWFqk3ISTocjnc= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Stefan Monnier writes: > > | (my-toggle-item #:MODE-OR-VAR &key ((:selected #:ENABLED-SPEC) (\` > > | (am-bound-and-true-p (quote (\, mode-or-var))))) ((:help > > | #:HELP-STRING) (am-make-symbol-docstring mode-or-var))) > > Let me just say that I will resist the urge to tell you what I think > about this style of argument list ;-) Please don't resist. What's wrong with it? > > This looks terrible with all this #: and quote \, stuff. > > Binding print-quoted makes sense to improve the quote/backquote syntax. > But I don't understand why we have those #: in there. I understand it's > there to say the symbols are not interned, but I don't understand why > they're not interned. See `cl--make-usage-args'. It upcases the names of the arguments and makes them a symbol again. The one who wrote that wanted that no new symbols are interned, and so used `make-symbol'. Dunno if there's a reason to do so. - Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 14 20:28:50 2012 Received: (at 12884-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2012 01:28:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43148 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYoG9-0004SX-R8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:28:50 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:34229) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYoG7-0004SQ-O0 for 12884-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:28:48 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAG6Zu09sr+ZY/2dsb2JhbABEsEiDSYEIghUBAQQBViMQCzQSFBgNJIgcBboJkEQDiEKacYFYgwc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="207642594" Received: from 108-175-230-88.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([108.175.230.88]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 14 Nov 2012 20:28:08 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CD74F594C8; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:28:07 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#12884: 24.2.50; defun*: argument lists in documentation look terrible Message-ID: References: <87ip985dyf.fsf@web.de> <87wqxnkg4y.fsf@web.de> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:28:07 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87wqxnkg4y.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:51:09 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12884-done Cc: 12884-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) >> > This looks terrible with all this #: and quote \, stuff. >> Binding print-quoted makes sense to improve the quote/backquote syntax. >> But I don't understand why we have those #: in there. I understand it's >> there to say the symbols are not interned, but I don't understand why >> they're not interned. > See `cl--make-usage-args'. It upcases the names of the arguments and > makes them a symbol again. The one who wrote that wanted that no new > symbols are interned, and so used `make-symbol'. Dunno if there's a > reason to do so. Ah, yes of course. I installed a patch similar to yours, except I didn't touch print-length and print-level, since I can't think of a good reason to favor nil for them. Stefan From unknown Thu Sep 11 16:39:33 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator