From unknown Wed Jun 18 00:26:57 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#12787 <12787@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#12787 <12787@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available Reply-To: bug#12787 <12787@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:26:57 +0000 retitle 12787 Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and H= elp no longer available reassign 12787 emacs submitter 12787 jxa127@verizon.net severity 12787 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 13:32:21 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 17:32:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45880 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUL6S-0004Uh-NP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:32:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUL6Q-0004Ua-Di for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:32:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUL3f-0006jI-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:29:28 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:59762) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUL3f-0006jE-NN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:29:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37459) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUL3e-0003YF-Ib for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:29:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUL3d-0006io-BC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:29:26 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.9]:16529) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUL3d-0006iU-6F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:29:25 -0400 Received: from vms170027pub.verizon.net ([unknown] [192.168.1.3]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0MCV00E3JF8TB010@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 12:29:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 63.66.64.247 ([63.66.64.247]) by vms170027 (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 12:29:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 12:29:17 -0500 (CDT) From: jxa127@verizon.net To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> Subject: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Verizon Webmail X-Originating-IP: [63.66.64.247] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: jxa127@verizon.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) The "Save As" and "Help" buttons from the tool bar are no longer available in Emacs 24. This change was not identified in the News. My attempts to replace them fail. I make the following changes in tool-bar.el: -------------------------------------------------------------- (defun tool-bar-setup () (setq tool-bar-separator-image-expression (tool-bar--image-expression "separator")) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'find-file "new" nil :label "New File" :vert-only t) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'menu-find-file-existing "open" nil :label "Open" :vert-only t) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'dired "diropen" nil :vert-only t) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'kill-this-buffer "close" nil :vert-only t) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'save-buffer "save" nil :label "Save") ;; ---> I add the ?Save As? button here: (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'write-file "saveas" nil :label "Save as") (define-key-after (default-value 'tool-bar-map) [separator-1] menu-bar-separator) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'undo "undo" nil) (define-key-after (default-value 'tool-bar-map) [separator-2] menu-bar-separator) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu (lookup-key menu-bar-edit-menu [cut]) "cut" nil :vert-only t) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu (lookup-key menu-bar-edit-menu [copy]) "copy" nil :vert-only t) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu (lookup-key menu-bar-edit-menu [paste]) "paste" nil :vert-only t) (define-key-after (default-value 'tool-bar-map) [separator-3] menu-bar-separator) (tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'isearch-forward "search" nil :label "Search" :vert-only t) ;;(tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'ispell-buffer "spell") ;; There's no icon appropriate for News and we need a command rather ;; than a lambda for Read Mail. ;;(tool-bar-add-item-from-menu 'compose-mail "mail/compose") ;; ---> I uncomment the help button here: ;; Help button on a tool bar is rather non-standard... (let ((tool-bar-map (default-value 'tool-bar-map))) (tool-bar-add-item "help" (lambda () (interactive) (popup-menu menu-bar-help-menu)) 'help :help "Pop up the Help menu")) ) -------------------------------------------------------------- I save tool-bar.el, compile it to tool-bar.elc and then restart Emacs, but the buttons are not there. I can evaluate portions of tool-bar.el to make the button appear during one session, but they will not appear at start-up. Thank you, Drew Ames From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 14:18:38 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 18:18:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45933 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TULpG-0005X6-Nt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:18:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:46257) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TULpF-0005Wv-3k for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:18:37 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TULmU-0000O6-GL; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:46 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: jxa127@verizon.net Subject: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available References: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> X-Spook: insurgency SAFE Commecen Exon Shell class struggle X-Ran: b1IgWe0L}\~<|h"~\Q?]df<$vox5]hfCxJ/1Lh+#Lx~=-;n7S"iV*|,7q}?NB?Hy7^/6TL X-Hue: white X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> (jxa's message of "Fri, 02 Nov 2012 12:29:17 -0500 (CDT)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > I save tool-bar.el, compile it to tool-bar.elc and then restart Emacs, > but the buttons are not there. This file is dumped into the Emacs executable, so you would need to rebuild Emacs with your changes. I imagine it would be much simpler to just add the buttons in your init file. I don't use the tool-bar and have no real opinion on what buttons should be there; but "Help" seems too general, rarely used, and hence a waste of space to me. Same with "save as" I guess. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 15:18:26 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 19:18:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45992 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUMl8-0006uJ-Iy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:18:26 -0400 Received: from vms173011pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.11]:47628) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUMl6-0006uB-7B for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:18:25 -0400 Received: from vms170027pub.verizon.net ([unknown] [192.168.1.3]) by vms173011.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0MCV00LE2K516D20@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 63.66.64.247 ([63.66.64.247]) by vms170027 (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:00 -0500 (CDT) From: jxa127@verizon.net To: rgm@gnu.org, jxa127@verizon.net Message-id: <10532993.1503752.1351883701083.JavaMail.root@vms170027> Subject: Re: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Verizon Webmail X-Originating-IP: [63.66.64.247] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) On 11/02/12, Glenn Morris wrote: >jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > >> I save tool-bar.el, compile it to tool-bar.elc and then restart Emacs, >> but the buttons are not there. > >This file is dumped into the Emacs executable, so you would need to >rebuild Emacs with your changes. I imagine it would be much simpler to >just add the buttons in your init file. I don't use the tool-bar and >have no real opinion on what buttons should be there; but "Help" seems >too general, rarely used, and hence a waste of space to me. Same with >"save as" I guess. I see your point, however the fact remains that this is a regression from Emacs 23 -- and a seemingly arbitrary one at that -- that wasn't mentioned in the NEWS. I get that "real" Emacs users don't use the tool bar (or the menu bar, for that matter), but I've been using Emacs extensively for seven years now and still find uses for the tool-bar. "Save As" is for me exceptionally useful. Thanks for the tip that I can recompile Emacs with my changes. I will do that, if necessary. I'd prefer though, that the buttons go back onto the tool bar be default. There's seemingly no good reason to hobble the tool bar by removing them, and no harm in keeping them. I understand that I can add them to my init file, but the buttons don't show up in the order that I would like them to be on the tool bar. It is also a shame to add things to my init file that weren't needed before. The last several releases of Emacs have caused me to remove items from my init file because they were no longer needed. I'd hate to reverse that trend. Regards, Drew Ames From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 15:36:33 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 19:36:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46071 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUN2e-0007Ks-Bs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:36:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:48425) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUN2c-0007Kl-Gt for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:36:31 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUMzr-0007M4-H8; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:33:39 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: jxa127@verizon.net Subject: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available References: <10532993.1503752.1351883701083.JavaMail.root@vms170027> X-Spook: oil industrial intelligence SDI MILSATCOM AFSPC Hamas X-Ran: wbP{?/M9..=0=|J13#2;p@oU~[/mte2bi)dLmtG\.c%i>9Fsa-A|Fm=5cfKa!8vX*~>ZnS X-Hue: yellow X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:33:39 -0400 Message-ID: <35objfn6jw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > I see your point, however the fact remains that this is a regression > from Emacs 23 -- and a seemingly arbitrary one at that -- that wasn't > mentioned in the NEWS. The motivation is in this thread: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-11/msg00701.html Presumably no-one thought it was NEWSworthy, since it is self-evident. We can't go back in time and add it now. > I'd prefer though, that the buttons go back onto the tool bar be > default. Seems unlikely to me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 16:03:31 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 20:03:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46086 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNSl-0007wh-F4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:03:31 -0400 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:35169) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNSi-0007wZ-JR for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:03:30 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MCV00A00LUQE600@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:00:37 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MCV00ATGM90EA10@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:00:37 +0200 (IST) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:00:24 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#12787: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available In-reply-to: <10532993.1503752.1351883701083.JavaMail.root@vms170027> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: jxa127@verizon.net Message-id: <83hap76ahz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> <10532993.1503752.1351883701083.JavaMail.root@vms170027> X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:00 -0500 (CDT) > From: jxa127@verizon.net > Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org > > On 11/02/12, Glenn Morris wrote: > > >jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > > > >> I save tool-bar.el, compile it to tool-bar.elc and then restart Emacs, > >> but the buttons are not there. > > > >This file is dumped into the Emacs executable, so you would need to > >rebuild Emacs with your changes. I imagine it would be much simpler to > >just add the buttons in your init file. I don't use the tool-bar and > >have no real opinion on what buttons should be there; but "Help" seems > >too general, rarely used, and hence a waste of space to me. Same with > >"save as" I guess. > > I see your point, however the fact remains that this is a regression from Emacs 23 -- and a seemingly arbitrary one at that -- that wasn't mentioned in the NEWS. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.179.55.175 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.7 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.5000] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:00 -0500 (CDT) > From: jxa127@verizon.net > Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org > > On 11/02/12, Glenn Morris wrote: > > >jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > > > >> I save tool-bar.el, compile it to tool-bar.elc and then restart Emacs, > >> but the buttons are not there. > > > >This file is dumped into the Emacs executable, so you would need to > >rebuild Emacs with your changes. I imagine it would be much simpler to > >just add the buttons in your init file. I don't use the tool-bar and > >have no real opinion on what buttons should be there; but "Help" seems > >too general, rarely used, and hence a waste of space to me. Same with > >"save as" I guess. > > I see your point, however the fact remains that this is a regression from Emacs 23 -- and a seemingly arbitrary one at that -- that wasn't mentioned in the NEWS. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.179.55.175 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.7 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.5000] > Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:00 -0500 (CDT) > From: jxa127@verizon.net > Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org > > On 11/02/12, Glenn Morris wrote: > > >jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > > > >> I save tool-bar.el, compile it to tool-bar.elc and then restart Emacs, > >> but the buttons are not there. > > > >This file is dumped into the Emacs executable, so you would need to > >rebuild Emacs with your changes. I imagine it would be much simpler to > >just add the buttons in your init file. I don't use the tool-bar and > >have no real opinion on what buttons should be there; but "Help" seems > >too general, rarely used, and hence a waste of space to me. Same with > >"save as" I guess. > > I see your point, however the fact remains that this is a regression from Emacs 23 -- and a seemingly arbitrary one at that -- that wasn't mentioned in the NEWS. What is a regression? tool-bar.el was always preloaded and dumped into the Emacs executable. There's no change here. > I get that "real" Emacs users don't use the tool bar (or the menu bar, for that matter), but I've been using Emacs extensively for seven years now and still find uses for the tool-bar. "Save As" is for me exceptionally useful. Well, those "real" users are those who decided to code the tool bar and the menu bar, and to have it by default in Emacs. So I think this is misdirected. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 16:19:00 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 20:19:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46092 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNhj-0008HL-Sm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:19:00 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.3]:50905) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNhh-0008HE-QM for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:18:58 -0400 Received: from vms170027pub.verizon.net ([unknown] [192.168.1.3]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0MCV004OOMY9WV41@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:15:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 63.66.64.247 ([63.66.64.247]) by vms170027 (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:15:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:15:45 -0500 (CDT) From: jxa127@verizon.net To: rgm@gnu.org, jxa127@verizon.net Message-id: <30308840.1509334.1351887345968.JavaMail.root@vms170027> Subject: Re: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Verizon Webmail X-Originating-IP: [63.66.64.247] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) >On 11/02/12, Glenn Morris wrote: > >jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > >> I see your point, however the fact remains that this is a regression >> from Emacs 23 -- and a seemingly arbitrary one at that -- that wasn't >> mentioned in the NEWS. > >The motivation is in this thread: >http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-11/msg00701.html Thank you for pointing me to the link. That helps explain the change. I don't agree with the assertion that "Save As" is left off of most toolbars. Even when it is, though, it is easy to add back on -- something that is not true with Emacs. > >Presumably no-one thought it was NEWSworthy, since it is self-evident. I don't know about other users, but I look to the NEWS to explain changes. It was self-evident that the change was made, but not why the change was made. >We can't go back in time and add it now. Understood. I wasn't asking for that. > >> I'd prefer though, that the buttons go back onto the tool bar be >> default. > >Seems unlikely to me. Why not? Thanks, Drew Ames From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 16:24:09 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 20:24:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46097 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNmi-0008Ol-N3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:24:08 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:35711) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNmf-0008Od-P0 for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:24:06 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qA2KLDHD005871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:21:14 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qA2KLBvm016954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:21:12 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qA2KLBeI008198; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:21:11 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.179.176) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:21:10 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , References: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> <10532993.1503752.1351883701083.JavaMail.root@vms170027> <83hap76ahz.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#12787: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs24 -- Save As and Help no longer available Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:21:04 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83hap76ahz.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac25NNXMvqLVGPRmRriG8fqaxhaVGQAAEpUQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) > > I've been using Emacs extensively for seven years now > > and still find uses for the tool-bar. "Save As" is for > > me exceptionally useful. > > Well, those "real" users are those who decided to code the tool bar > and the menu bar, and to have it by default in Emacs. So I think this > is misdirected. Tossing some tool-bar icons because the tool bar had become too crowded was a quick workaround, but not a real solution. Ultimately, what tool-bar entries to include should be a user choice (and it should be easy to choose/configure). Some common GUIs do this: 1. Let users choose the size of the icons used (e.g. small, medium, large). 2. Let users choose (easily) which tool-bar entries to show, including for different contexts (i.e., modes, for Emacs). When I look for the user options available for customizing the tool bar, I find only these: `tool-bar-max-label-size' and `tool-bar-style'. And the latter option affects only the GTK+ toolkit (even though the option is available in non-GTK+ Emacs versions, for some reason). I don't use the tool bar, and I imagine that few of those who might be able to contribute to improving it actually use it. That might explain the primitive state, but not a satisfactory answer for a user who expects the kind of flexibility s?he sees in other apps. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 16:27:45 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 20:27:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNqD-0008TX-84 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:27:45 -0400 Received: from vms173011pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.11]:49200) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNqB-0008TO-LQ for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:27:44 -0400 Received: from vms170027pub.verizon.net ([unknown] [192.168.1.3]) by vms173011.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0MCV00GCTND0U5B0@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:24:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 63.66.64.247 ([63.66.64.247]) by vms170027 (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:24:36 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:24:36 -0500 (CDT) From: jxa127@verizon.net To: eliz@gnu.org, jxa127@verizon.net Message-id: <21114509.1510043.1351887876834.JavaMail.root@vms170027> Subject: Re: Re: bug#12787: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Verizon Webmail X-Originating-IP: [63.66.64.247] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) On 11/02/12, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:15:00 -0500 (CDT) >> From: jxa127@verizon.net >> Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> On 11/02/12, Glenn Morris wrote: >> > >jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > > > >> I save tool-bar.el, compile it to tool-bar.elc and then restart Emacs, > >> but the buttons are not there. > > > >This file is dumped into the Emacs executable, so you would need to > >rebuild Emacs with your changes. I imagine it would be much simpler to > >just add the buttons in your init file. I don't use the tool-bar and > >have no real opinion on what buttons should be there; but "Help" seems > >too general, rarely used, and hence a waste of space to me. Same with > >"save as" I guess. >> >> I see your point, however the fact remains that this is a regression from Emacs 23 -- and a seemingly arbitrary one at that -- that wasn't mentioned in the NEWS. > >What is a regression? tool-bar.el was always preloaded and dumped >into the Emacs executable. There's no change here. You have to go back to the original message. The regression is the loss of those two buttons from the tool bar. >> I get that "real" Emacs users don't use the tool bar (or the menu bar, for that matter), but I've been using >>Emacs extensively for seven years now and still find uses for the tool-bar. "Save As" is for me exceptionally useful. > >Well, those "real" users are those who decided to code the tool bar >and the menu bar, and to have it by default in Emacs. So I think this >is misdirected. I'm sorry, but I don't get your statement. I'm fully aware of who is making the decisions, and I'm corresponding with them right now. A few years ago, when I posted about a bug in Emacs 23 on the menu bar, I got a response that started the same way, "I don't use the menu bar, but ..." In that instance, the problem was resolved. I had hoped for the same consideration this time. In short, if you don't use the tool bar, then why not take input from somebody who does? If this question _should_ not be directed to those who make this decision, then to whom should I direct it? Thank you for your consideration, -Drew Ames From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 16:30:03 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 20:30:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46105 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNsQ-00005c-Ph for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:30:03 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:41931) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUNsO-0008WT-J8 for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:30:01 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qA2KR8Xe023494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:27:09 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qA2KR8oP025415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Nov 2012 20:27:08 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qA2KR7vO014235; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:27:07 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.179.176) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:27:07 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: , References: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> <30308840.1509334.1351887345968.JavaMail.root@vms170027> Subject: RE: bug#12787: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs24 -- Save As and Help no longer available Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:27:01 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <30308840.1509334.1351887345968.JavaMail.root@vms170027> Thread-Index: Ac25NutCFPrraX0IT2+QeXevQpk3mQAAMotQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) > I don't know about other users, but I look to the NEWS to > explain changes. It was self-evident that the change was > made, but not why the change was made. IMO, the NEWS should cover user-visible changes, and that includes changes like this one. OK, let's assume this omission was not intentional and it just fell through the cracks. Too bad. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 16:51:28 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 20:51:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46115 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUOD9-0000bo-Jp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:51:28 -0400 Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.19]:48272) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUOD6-0000bg-N0 for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:51:25 -0400 Received: from vms170027pub.verizon.net ([unknown] [192.168.1.3]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0MCV0025COGB5G52@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:48:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 63.66.64.247 ([63.66.64.247]) by vms170027 (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:48:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:48:11 -0500 (CDT) From: jxa127@verizon.net To: drew.adams@oracle.com, jxa127@verizon.net, rgm@gnu.org Message-id: <13717901.1512310.1351889291551.JavaMail.root@vms170027> Subject: Re: RE: bug#12787: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs24 -- Save As and Help no longer available MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Verizon Webmail X-Originating-IP: [63.66.64.247] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) On 11/02/12, Drew Adams wrote: >> I don't know about other users, but I look to the NEWS to >> explain changes. It was self-evident that the change was >> made, but not why the change was made. > >IMO, the NEWS should cover user-visible changes, and that includes changes like >this one. OK, let's assume this omission was not intentional and it just fell >through the cracks. Too bad. Right. The reson I brought up the NEWS is that the last time I submitted a bug report regarding a change, the fact that it was not in the NEWS was part of the criteria for determining whether or not the change was deliberate. I get that things fall through the cracks. I'm just trying to submit a clear, complete bug report. Thanks, all, for the discussion and consideration of my bug submission. Regards, Drew Ames From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 02 18:16:09 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2012 22:16:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46233 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUPX6-0003CL-Q8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:16:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:51117) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TUPX4-0003C9-PJ for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:16:08 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TUPUJ-0004CV-45; Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:13:15 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: jxa127@verizon.net Subject: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available References: <30308840.1509334.1351887345968.JavaMail.root@vms170027> X-Spook: CESID HAMASMOIS Ft. Bragg Merlin Bin Laden 22nd SAS X-Ran: rU~n@TPi13pt:YT)rW]P\xu)K55lM#_JgFIDy4#xWj8<}gH24VMc::4iAX-@3i9kR+?Ift X-Hue: magenta X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:13:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <30308840.1509334.1351887345968.JavaMail.root@vms170027> (jxa's message of "Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:15:45 -0500 (CDT)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 Cc: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) jxa127@verizon.net wrote: > Thank you for pointing me to the link. That helps explain the change. > I don't agree with the assertion that "Save As" is left off of most > toolbars. Could you name some applications that have it there by default? If I start up eg "gedit" it is not there, and I see no way to add it (I don't normally use gedit though). The gedit toolbar looks much the same as Emacs 24's. I imagine this consistency with other applications was the motivation for the changes. The "help" button seems pointless to me. It just does exactly the same as clicking the "help" menu, which is a few pixels away. I don't expect a significant number of people to have tool-bar on and menu-bar off. Every other tool-bar button in Emacs 23 is for an action that does not correspond to simply selecting a top-level menu. > Even when it is, though, it is easy to add back on -- something that > is not true with Emacs. You could certainly argue that the Emacs toolbar should be easier to customize. Drag'n'drop seems to be the friendly way. I think that is a different bug report though. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 24 13:51:48 2012 Received: (at 12787-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2012 18:51:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36944 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TcKpP-0002bh-MX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:51:48 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:34184) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TcKpN-0002ba-PD for 12787-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:51:46 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TcKnr-0000Xw-QE; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:50:11 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: 12787-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available References: <30308840.1509334.1351887345968.JavaMail.root@vms170027> X-Spook: keyhole emc Noriega Nazi subversive red noise INS SHA X-Ran: 5!cz%'V%3|r1\)X'/vIe@BpP8>T:y2,@@.*9`@#T@FA&$mPJD[KwO\*l$?r`['[}(NN^_Q X-Hue: magenta X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:50:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:13:14 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) Since nobody else has spoken up in favour of bringing these two icons back, I am closing this. Do feel free to reply with more info though. Glenn Morris wrote: > Could you name some applications that have it there by default? > If I start up eg "gedit" it is not there, and I see no way to add it > (I don't normally use gedit though). The gedit toolbar looks much the > same as Emacs 24's. I imagine this consistency with other applications > was the motivation for the changes. > > The "help" button seems pointless to me. It just does exactly the same > as clicking the "help" menu, which is a few pixels away. I don't expect > a significant number of people to have tool-bar on and menu-bar off. > Every other tool-bar button in Emacs 23 is for an action that does not > correspond to simply selecting a top-level menu. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 24 16:06:46 2012 Received: (at 12787) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2012 21:06:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37024 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TcMw1-0006XV-Cp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:06:46 -0500 Received: from vms173021pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.21]:52227) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TcMvz-0006XO-Bf for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:06:44 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.101] ([unknown] [71.254.114.201]) by vms173021.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0ME000ISPFW3KT10@vms173021.mailsrvcs.net> for 12787@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:04:52 -0600 (CST) Message-id: <50B1366F.7090205@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:04:47 -0500 From: Drew Ames User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-version: 1.0 To: 12787@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#12787: closed (Re: bug#12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available) References: <8698659.1494633.1351877357323.JavaMail.root@vms170027> In-reply-to: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12787 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: jxa127@verizon.net List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) On 11/24/2012 01:52 PM, GNU bug Tracking System wrote: > Your bug report > > #12787: Toolbar regression from Emacs 23 to Emacs 24 -- Save As and Help no longer available > > which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. > > The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. > If you require more details, please reply to 12787@debbugs.gnu.org. > That's fine. I like the earlier suggestion to submit a new bug report asking for an enhancement to make the tool bar easier to customize. Thank you, Drew Ames From unknown Wed Jun 18 00:26:57 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 12:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator