From unknown Fri Aug 15 12:51:09 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#12635 <12635@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#12635 <12635@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: A usability issue with the save dialog box Reply-To: bug#12635 <12635@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 19:51:09 +0000 retitle 12635 A usability issue with the save dialog box reassign 12635 emacs submitter 12635 Alex Hanif severity 12635 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 13 05:44:22 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2012 09:44:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42070 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyGa-0002qM-TS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 05:44:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TMwh3-00085J-3a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:03:33 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMwg4-00031X-Bl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:02:33 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:42423) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMwg4-00031T-8d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:02:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45356) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMwg3-0000XD-D1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:02:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMwg2-00031C-AX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:02:31 -0400 Received: from mail-wg0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]:63591) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMwg2-000318-4E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:02:30 -0400 Received: by mail-wg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id gg4so2272975wgb.30 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:02:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=43w/Y19jiFAH1q7FtdYlZGaqMYITLRPL0p/7g6oWJDU=; b=x0jrqGcddXAg+Fay/FUpITTtbaYjkf8xCkywX/5tUDRIgV4qDzOCOuf8MsIEOwiv6e CMGt01CRpQlTnFKXiS1oelKc8RfL0W8YxiL7KIZGPBGRWb/EH+KI4aebGfwpv09VFPBQ mwluPdJ6SdFZLFHO+3nGP89+gNU/CSfXl2rEwNPl9VpBSoNIJEzjzMN3EmYZb73OOx91 HTVElZJtyJAh4eO2bSSJE/pRTKFn1gwl3R4u+xga0a6eylyZ54oKkQSC5adxXDskLWyC 3scSQaX4/ccCgvNXFexOi/d5UNbG7m6K1l39QQngczD4BkaN1p/Kx13/+21NoFB3LJ3U jGLQ== Received: by 10.216.198.80 with SMTP id u58mr3638307wen.204.1350115348620; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:02:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.245.79 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:02:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Hanif Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:02:08 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: A usability issue with the save dialog box To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502b03bc2a5dc04cbec394b X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 05:44:19 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) --00504502b03bc2a5dc04cbec394b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to suggest a few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated my suggestion and put up an image of the suggested solution on my blog: http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue-box/ Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. Thank you, +Alex --00504502b03bc2a5dc04cbec394b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,
I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to su= ggest a few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated my sugg= estion and put up an image of the suggested solution on my blog:=A0 http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-s= ave-dialogue-box/=A0
Please let me know if I can help improve= Emacs.
Thank you,
+Alex
--00504502b03bc2a5dc04cbec394b-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 13 06:30:27 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2012 10:30:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42126 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyzC-0005e5-QD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:30:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57666) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyz9-0005dr-Hz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:30:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyyA-0003Ji-FI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:29:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:51137) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyyA-0003Je-CQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:29:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58947) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyy9-0006jr-Dm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:29:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyy8-0003JS-Aa for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:29:21 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:54593) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyy8-0003JO-3x for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:29:20 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TMyyB-00072W-IL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:29:23 +0200 Received: from 182.48.109.8 ([182.48.109.8]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:29:23 +0200 Received: from sdl.web by 182.48.109.8 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:29:23 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Leo Subject: Re: bug#12635: A usability issue with the save dialog box Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 18:29:09 +0800 Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 182.48.109.8 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoBAMAAAB+0KVeAAAAGFBMVEUzRVhbQj4eZqO6SjnT eWpxnMetm5b6/PmidmqrAAAAAWJLR0QAiAUdSAAAAAlwSFlzAAALEwAACxMBAJqcGAAAAAd0SU1F B9cBBwMLBfKABCMAAAFoSURBVCjPtZI9a8MwEIaFoc7aYDdelQMna0Em3tsSr0XUeE2Q6a22a+v+ fk8fSSBkbDUI6dHpfe9OEvRgiD+ApqKPJgJeB6iUUXWESjUe/ig38AJrhqqvaU2nTIXbNvOQ40fe qdry4kyGoVWsfCQalXpHnJGM01wjWdYbMlXNFdsZDO69m9aqNqxEJqTEgbM5OF7wlEfIoll1Ked4 LbM5X2EdILLokEdmI8z7g5cKED0cuTC930TYhy7ZDekkXVGw/L60TguJePPxcJF48lpsSUWEA/Ju jGFNgJOXc4Hz7TmAdBeu5Ve4AEjOi2/2jfd3cAJZ+IbNrvdjgBZY01b+HTuG3cLws6BJZqVOj/pp T0OqVwx3rFq+QmJwx3loK5JSLEhDIt62+mtC2C+SrAUxEbV6C6v2BRbd6pILBKFpepKZJHgGgrKF sptSUUoczpwg2pQ7ZH1tgs0ou/917mzz6Cs2//C978cv5l07L02orIEAAAAASUVORK5CYII= User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (OS X 10.8.2) Cancel-Lock: sha1:GBQ281iFtAMa1E1gUc/muQvFeuk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) On 2012-10-13 16:02 +0800, Alex Hanif wrote: > I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to > suggest a few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated > my suggestion and put up an image of the suggested solution on my > blog:  > http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue- > box/  Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. Yep, that is probably the worst design on earth and fortunately most people don't use it. Leo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 13 08:36:34 2012 Received: (at 12635) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2012 12:36:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42187 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TN0xG-0001jL-5L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:36:34 -0400 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:34631) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TN0xD-0001j5-8j for 12635@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:36:32 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MBU00K00029SP00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 12635@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 14:35:28 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MBU00KAY0B4L090@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 14:35:28 +0200 (IST) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 14:35:32 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#12635: A usability issue with the save dialog box In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Alex Hanif Message-id: <83y5ja5z3f.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > From: Alex Hanif > Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:02:08 +0200 > > I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to suggest a > few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated my suggestion > and put up an image of the suggested solution on my blog: > http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue-box/ > > Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.179.55.175 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.7 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.5000] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12635 Cc: 12635@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > From: Alex Hanif > Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:02:08 +0200 > > I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to suggest a > few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated my suggestion > and put up an image of the suggested solution on my blog: > http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue-box/ > > Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.179.55.175 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.7 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.5000] > From: Alex Hanif > Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:02:08 +0200 > > I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to suggest a > few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated my suggestion > and put up an image of the suggested solution on my blog: > http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue-box/ > > Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. Thanks, but IMO your suggested dialog goes too far in the other direction: it removes useful options. It is possible that the options to view the file's buffer and to review the changes should be renamed, e.g. "Do not save and show the changes" or some such, or maybe the layout should be changed. But removing the options because "users can only cope with 2 at most" is not the best idea. Likewise with "Save This But No More" and "No To All" and "Save All Buffers" (which perhaps should be relabeled "Yes To All"). These are useful when saving several files, and should appear then. Can you suggest a better design that leaves the options available? TIA From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 13 09:16:27 2012 Received: (at 12635) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2012 13:16:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42203 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TN1Zn-0002fu-93 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:16:26 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:53250) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TN1Zh-0002fk-S8 for 12635@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:16:21 -0400 Received: from frontend1.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.180]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3Xf5xj0wRjz4KK3D; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:15:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: n1vBWcyBe4fKv/FXuz5grWdlzlq7/A6jFSOLGIuAumk= Received: from igel.home (ppp-93-104-150-2.dynamic.mnet-online.de [93.104.150.2]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3Xf5xj0Qq5zbbfs; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:15:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 501) id AD9FCCA2A4; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:15:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#12635: A usability issue with the save dialog box References: <83y5ja5z3f.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: My mind is making ashtrays in Dayton.... Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:15:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83y5ja5z3f.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 13 Oct 2012 14:35:32 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12635 Cc: Alex Hanif , 12635@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Likewise with "Save This But No More" and "No To All" and "Save All > Buffers" (which perhaps should be relabeled "Yes To All"). The latter two should probably be replaced by a check box "use this answer for subsequent questions". Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 13 12:13:08 2012 Received: (at 12635) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2012 16:13:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42728 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TN4Ko-0006gS-3O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:13:07 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:41992 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TN4Kk-0006fz-FA for 12635@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:13:03 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390396FA011; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:12:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Alex Hanif Subject: Re: bug#12635: A usability issue with the save dialog box Organization: JURTA References: Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:05:01 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Alex Hanif's message of "Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:02:08 +0200") Message-ID: <878vba2xk2.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12635 Cc: 12635@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) > Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. The most user-friendly UI would tell the user what pressing the button will do exactly. So instead of buttons "Yes"/"No", it would display more explicit text in buttons: "Save"/"Don't save" or "Save"/"Discard". OTOH, Emacs is special in this regard that actions in the dialog box have their counterparts in the non-GUI version where "y" and "n" are keys to save or skip the buffer. With the goal to maintain compatibility between these two versions, the GUI version could provide accelerator keys in the button text like "_Y_es" and "_N_o". But in case when these versions will diverge from each other, and also for the final question Modified buffers exist; exit anyway? still more explicit "Yes, discard changes"/"No, cancel" or "Yes, close without saving"/"No, cancel" would be better. "Don't quit" to cancel the dialog is very necessary, yes, but a link in a dialog box a quite non-standard element. Much simpler would be to just add the button "Cancel". Removing the option "View This Buffer" could be accompanied with displaying the buffer in question unconditionally (this suggestion pertains to the non-GUI version as well). Regarding the multi-file operation, some applications solve this problem by displaying a list of all unsaved files to help the user decide what to do with all of them. Emacs already does the same for running processes by displaying their list and asking a simple question: Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? "Yes"/"No" I wonder why not to do the same for unsaved buffers? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 14 04:39:19 2012 Received: (at 12635) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2012 08:39:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43211 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJjC-000442-Ae for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:39:18 -0400 Received: from mail-we0-f172.google.com ([74.125.82.172]:36458) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJj8-00043o-Us for 12635@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:39:16 -0400 Received: by mail-we0-f172.google.com with SMTP id u46so2547394wey.3 for <12635@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:38:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=vG/xsJgxX5acDm5kYBfrd71dKo9yodEKHoKk1QT/xX4=; b=rHW8m97z/moccAIFp2jseeZR8EdKEdw55asZcEXeqgSfuybbGphU9Thp7yQtUMts89 7PuHvQ1GLMStDqZw46bcpOcGwffPNdCP6k/JTX4uHu9WmJGM9cvXt4D/3A7UEBQSKv8U 4dsGnTOJpKWt1vl9A3+mWbyNZW+Aw/K4i5WopYeswSifauTvXdbRlTDZLgeX/fd4131M PA0pWkda8fkSO3G8L2rnQSMN02XNKAUUENHgp0FKxiIN6sDFxopWdaOUXWsaaHBLAACa AKYvk+uxA1vRLOu/z4Bynd4hmVP5zq3cC/U204y/QtwO9WIGcpYWEQ4gAM4RGmYkG4Zu G7gw== Received: by 10.216.198.80 with SMTP id u58mr4897286wen.204.1350203888611; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:38:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.245.79 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:37:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <878vba2xk2.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <878vba2xk2.fsf@mail.jurta.org> From: Alex Hanif Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:37:48 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#12635: A usability issue with the save dialog box To: Juri Linkov Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502b03b27b1ce04cc00d76a X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12635 Cc: 12635@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) --00504502b03b27b1ce04cc00d76a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks Eli, Andreas, Juri, I have reviewed the design based on your suggestions. Please find the new muckups with the design elaborations at the end of that blog post here: http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue-box/ Thank you, +Alex Hanif ----------------------- This message is confidential and copyrighted. The contents and attachment(s) are solely intended for the explicitly mentioned recipient(s). Forwarding, replying to another addresses, copying, printing and distributing parts of it or as a whole in any form to any other person or 3rd party is prohibited except with prior permission. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all copies of the original message and possible distributions and inform me. On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 6:05 PM, Juri Linkov wrote: > > Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. > > The most user-friendly UI would tell the user what pressing the button > will do exactly. So instead of buttons "Yes"/"No", it would display > more explicit text in buttons: "Save"/"Don't save" or "Save"/"Discard". > > OTOH, Emacs is special in this regard that actions in the dialog box > have their counterparts in the non-GUI version where "y" and "n" are keys > to save or skip the buffer. With the goal to maintain compatibility > between these two versions, the GUI version could provide accelerator keys > in the button text like "_Y_es" and "_N_o". > > But in case when these versions will diverge from each other, > and also for the final question > > Modified buffers exist; exit anyway? > > still more explicit "Yes, discard changes"/"No, cancel" or > "Yes, close without saving"/"No, cancel" would be better. > > "Don't quit" to cancel the dialog is very necessary, yes, > but a link in a dialog box a quite non-standard element. > Much simpler would be to just add the button "Cancel". > > Removing the option "View This Buffer" could be accompanied with > displaying the buffer in question unconditionally (this suggestion > pertains to the non-GUI version as well). > > Regarding the multi-file operation, some applications solve this problem > by displaying a list of all unsaved files to help the user decide what > to do with all of them. > > Emacs already does the same for running processes by displaying their list > and asking a simple question: > > Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? "Yes"/"No" > > I wonder why not to do the same for unsaved buffers? > --00504502b03b27b1ce04cc00d76a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Eli, Andreas, Juri, I have reviewed the design based on your suggestions. Please find the new m= uckups with the design elaborations at the end of that blog post here:=A0http://user.w= ordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue-box/
Thank you,
+Alex Hanif
------= -----------------
This message is confidential and copyrighted. The cont= ents and attachment(s) are solely intended for the explicitly mentioned rec= ipient(s). Forwarding, replying to another addresses, copying, printing and= distributing parts of it or as a whole in any form to any other person or = 3rd party is prohibited except with prior permission. If you are not the in= tended recipient, please destroy all copies of the original message and pos= sible distributions and inform me.


On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 6:05 PM, Juri Li= nkov <juri@jurta.org> wrote:
> Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs.

The most user-friendly UI would tell the user what pressing the butto= n
will do exactly. =A0So instead of buttons "Yes"/"No", i= t would display
more explicit text in buttons: "Save"/"Don't save" = or "Save"/"Discard".

OTOH, Emacs is special in this regard that actions in the dialog box
have their counterparts in the non-GUI version where "y" and &quo= t;n" are keys
to save or skip the buffer. =A0With the goal to maintain compatibility
between these two versions, the GUI version could provide accelerator keys<= br> in the button text like "_Y_es" and "_N_o".

But in case when these versions will diverge from each other,
and also for the final question

=A0 Modified buffers exist; exit anyway?

still more explicit "Yes, discard changes"/"No, cancel"= or
"Yes, close without saving"/"No, cancel" would be bette= r.

"Don't quit" to cancel the dialog is very necessary, yes,
but a link in a dialog box a quite non-standard element.
Much simpler would be to just add the button "Cancel".

Removing the option "View This Buffer" could be accompanied with<= br> displaying the buffer in question unconditionally (this suggestion
pertains to the non-GUI version as well).

Regarding the multi-file operation, some applications solve this problem by displaying a list of all unsaved files to help the user decide what
to do with all of them.

Emacs already does the same for running processes by displaying their list<= br> and asking a simple question:

=A0 Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? "Yes"/&quo= t;No"

I wonder why not to do the same for unsaved buffers?

--00504502b03b27b1ce04cc00d76a-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 14 09:28:52 2012 Received: (at 12635) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2012 13:28:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43394 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TNOFO-0005ap-5w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:28:52 -0400 Received: from mail-pa0-f44.google.com ([209.85.220.44]:51571) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TNOFH-0005aX-8j for 12635@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:28:46 -0400 Received: by mail-pa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id fb11so4073359pad.3 for <12635@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 06:27:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=Vn8Tjhag4xdOycG+c1i4adBr6GLyBdAqbZRA67QYfcg=; b=VkB47dEDqAl/I+1QAcxPXs5lpjvNWb5wfzstTpBiqWg3jKjdCyX3Z7ZtSooluGDcG5 0PmeTtCe+BmhDR/2rtF8GDQf7YzDjkzo0vs/izDQz3bUjHhFy+VQYouZlJG6eiphXu7F Bwc+CYkyQAl2csmMzkxcamubN2f8S86kHLoNAi5UUVr++nJTxRyRrzuObTvftAlNv6VD 9mKm4Ea4pvAA7msFokd9HoyIjLmxc/XfSieKckWuK38a90yTRmYmGvx44bJ4sixnRJth A4jexCz/km0B4DJeGCdD9h1ipLQAtBbKiDDcZEpTGlOr8cdqDfwc8hJP7hwgUobG7zCg 518Q== Received: by 10.68.125.229 with SMTP id mt5mr3909670pbb.51.1350221255264; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 06:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.jasonrumney.net ([180.75.59.151]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id mz10sm7480907pbc.37.2012.10.14.06.27.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 14 Oct 2012 06:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by home.jasonrumney.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AE440DFE; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:27:28 +0800 (MYT) From: Jason Rumney To: Alex Hanif Subject: Re: bug#12635: A usability issue with the save dialog box References: Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:27:28 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Alex Hanif's message of "Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:02:08 +0200") Message-ID: <87ipad5glb.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12635 Cc: 12635@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) Alex Hanif writes: > Hi, > > I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to > suggest a few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated > my suggestion and put up an image of the suggested solution on my > blog: > http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue- > box/ > Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. You have some good ideas, but they seem to be based on a misconception that each dialog in Emacs is individually designed. That may be the case with other applications, but is not with Emacs. Currently Emacs dialogs are quite limited in their capabilities, so the best approach is probably to split this task into two: 1. Improve the options availble in the current dialog. 2. Improve Emacs's dialog capabilities (a much bigger task, especially if backwards compatibility is to be kept). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 10:42:38 2022 Received: (at 12635) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 15:42:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60270 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDTOY-0007xl-2r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:42:38 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43476) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDTOW-0007xU-DN for 12635@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:42:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=sbR8n5WhFzoJfBuonnSf2UPVIJTKT+qdfmEdqC3J5eE=; b=V4TjTzwnZ+a2l+Ez2xPbJdg4Pz UgjClVPuJiI7na4Bf+9nuD8ui0j8QPgHDcLeBSBwBOVQMct7hyEOp2o+kCDZNDuiKDrgLdnOLnZEn JJCqGoKQIMuUy8+P3k70ExM0rXNLHdaFx6DKzQylj70KVpzspGDOX0akbaeODyZ3vvs8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nDTON-0003uB-QW; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:42:30 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Leo Subject: Re: bug#12635: A usability issue with the save dialog box References: X-Now-Playing: Nina Simone's _Little Girl Blue_: "Mood Indigo" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:42:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Leo's message of "Sat, 13 Oct 2012 18:29:09 +0800") Message-ID: <87sft7eujg.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Leo writes: >> I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to >> suggest a few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated >> my suggestion and put up an image of the suggested solut [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12635 Cc: 12635@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Leo writes: >> I am a usability designer based in Stockholm and I would like to >> suggest a few improvements to the Emacs save dialog. I have motivated >> my suggestion and put up an image of the suggested solution on my >> blog:=C2=A0 >> http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue- >> box/=C2=A0 Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. > > Yep, that is probably the worst design on earth and fortunately most > people don't use it. This has been fixed in Emacs 29 -- exiting Emacs now presents a much simpler file-saving dialogue.=20 --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 10:42:42 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 15:42:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDTOc-0007y2-A9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:42:42 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43490) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDTOa-0007xc-Sp for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:42:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=af8qIM3sHKIqtTWxHrOtZoOx3tZx4ZWpOATxpUyFw7A=; b=cyFsiHrY/dz2vIdcgu6IQ0Yw8a gM1IeUcAxGVorHhf0lmKWEwYtM0MNzPZxnsvbnhPzI85aAjPB8IDK6RG5x6pzftyj0/+ojVGvlOMR YaysSHvFj/U6FSqoAK93EWBPUA7KUzFQ62488uLHvPo6ZjnMsOUIDAy8B2uGpJXqgvhQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nDTOS-0003uO-VG for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:42:35 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:42:32 +0100 Message-Id: <87r18reujb.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #12635 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 12:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator