GNU bug report logs - #12487
24.2.50; Inconsistent, so confusing, confirmation msgs for `find-alternate-file'

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From: help-debbugs <at> gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: tracker <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#12487: closed (24.2.50; Inconsistent, so confusing,
 confirmation msgs for `find-alternate-file')
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:33:01 +0000

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Your message dated Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:29:53 -0400
with message-id <jwvehkhcspq.fsf-monnier+bug#12487 <at> gnu.org>
and subject line Re: bug#12487: 24.2.50; Inconsistent, so confusing, confirmation msgs for `find-alternate-file'
has caused the debbugs.gnu.org bug report #12487,
regarding 24.2.50; Inconsistent, so confusing, confirmation msgs for `find-alternate-file'
to be marked as done.

(If you believe you have received this mail in error, please contact
help-debbugs <at> gnu.org.)


-- 
12487: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=12487
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Contact help-debbugs <at> gnu.org with problems

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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.2.50; Inconsistent, so confusing, confirmation msgs for
	`find-alternate-file'
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:30:03 -0700

emacs -Q
 
Visit an existing file foo.  Make some changes, without saving.  `C-x
C-v RET', to re-visit foo, effectively reverting it.
 
You are asked "Buffer foo is modified; save it first (yes or no)".
(There is no question mark here, BTW.)  You reply "no".  Then you are
asked "Kill and replace the buffer without saving it? (yes or no)".
(This time there is a question mark, as there should be.)  You ponder a
minute, then reply "yes".
 
This is a common use case when a user wants to abandon edits by using
`C-x C-v'.  Note that `revert-buffer' will not revert everything that
`C-x C-v' reverts.  Overlays etc. remain, so it can sometimes be useful
to use `C-x C-v' here.
 
Here's the problem: You changed the first message, flipping its sense,
so now, if a user wants to discard the changes s?he has to first say
"no", s?he does not want to save the changes, and then s?he has to say
"yes", s?he really wants to replace the buffer.
 
This inconsistency is confusing and thus error-prone.  While your change
was no doubt motivated by wanting to avoid user errors, it actually
promotes them, at least in this scenario.
 
Furthermore, why are you asking the second question, if the reply to the
first is "no"?  If the user does not want to save the changes, then why
ask again, especially with a reversed sense for the question?
 

In GNU Emacs 24.2.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2012-09-17 on MARVIN
Bzr revision: 110062 cyd <at> gnu.org-20120917054104-r93rtwkrtva73ewe
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
Configured using:
 `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libiconv-1.13.1-1-dev/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libxml2-2.7.8/include/libxml2'
 

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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 12487-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12487: 24.2.50;
	Inconsistent, so confusing, confirmation msgs for
	`find-alternate-file'
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:29:53 -0400

> You are asked "Buffer foo is modified; save it first (yes or no)".
> (There is no question mark here, BTW.)  You reply "no".  Then you are
> asked "Kill and replace the buffer without saving it? (yes or no)".
> (This time there is a question mark, as there should be.)  You ponder a
> minute, then reply "yes".
 
Agreed.  I simply dropped the first question.  If the user wants to
save first she can just abort, save, and try again.


        Stefan

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