From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12187: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 12187 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 12187@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.134480576020391 (code B ref -1); Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:10:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Aug 2012 21:09:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51844 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fPU-0005Iq-CN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:09:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55326) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fPS-0005Ij-7o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:09:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fHE-0005dE-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:53169) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fHE-0005d9-N9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60829) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fHB-00070Q-An for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fH9-0005Zw-0G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:45 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:50407) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fH8-0005Zn-Ns for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:42 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q7CL0bkE029771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:00:38 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q7CL0aW6001859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:00:37 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q7CL0aE0024011 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 16:00:36 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:00:36 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:00:25 -0700 Message-ID: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac14zX6jeoUp2XVnREWiE+zoGTQLBQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) emacs -Q Set option `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' to 0. Visit an Info node. You will see something like this: File: elisp.info, Node: Introduction We should not be displaying the suffix ".info". The "file" name here is intended to indicate which manual you are in. Showing the ".info" suffix is a distraction that reflects the implementation, and it wastes space. This is a (minor) regression. In GNU Emacs 24.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-08-08 on DANI-PC Bzr revision: 109511 michael.albinus@gmx.de-20120808134045-t26l1voivvzfypey Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -I../../libs/libxpm-3.5.8/include -I../../libs/libxpm-3.5.8/src -I../../libs/libpng-1.4.10 -I../../libs/zlib-1.2.6 -I../../libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -I../../libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -I../../libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -I../../libs/libxml2-2.7.8-w32-bin/include/libxml2 -I../../libs/gnutls-3.0.16/include -I../../libs/libiconv-1.14-2-mingw32-dev/include' From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12187: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 02:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12187 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 12187@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 12187-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12187.134482607520808 (code B ref 12187); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 02:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 12187) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2012 02:47:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52228 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0kh9-0005PZ-66 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 22:47:55 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:59873) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0kh5-0005PQ-Pm for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 22:47:53 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0M8O00400A1IG400@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 05:39:20 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0M8O003PAA1KPWU0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 05:39:20 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 05:39:21 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:00:25 -0700 > > emacs -Q > > Set option `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' to 0. > > Visit an Info node. You will see something like this: > > File: elisp.info, Node: Introduction > > We should not be displaying the suffix ".info". The "file" name here is > intended to indicate which manual you are in. No, it's a file name. That's how all Info readers work. This is not a bug. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12187: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 13:55:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12187 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 12187@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , Karl Berry Received: via spool by 12187-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12187.134486606820705 (code B ref 12187); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 13:55:01 +0000 Received: (at 12187) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2012 13:54:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52855 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0v68-0005Np-AU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:54:28 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:11158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0v62-0005Nf-Pb for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:54:22 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAG6Zu09MCqqR/2dsb2JhbABEtBGBCIIVAQEEAVYjBQsLNAcLFBgNJIgcBboJkEQDliqNCYFYgwU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="195568483" Received: from 76-10-170-145.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.170.145]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 13 Aug 2012 09:45:45 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 35B3C59305; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:45:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> <83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:45:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 13 Aug 2012 05:39:21 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.2 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.2 (/) >> emacs -Q >> >> Set option `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' to 0. >> >> Visit an Info node. You will see something like this: >> >> File: elisp.info, Node: Introduction >> >> We should not be displaying the suffix ".info". The "file" name here is >> intended to indicate which manual you are in. > No, it's a file name. That's how all Info readers work. > This is not a bug. I agree it's not a bug, and not a regression in the Info reader either, but IIUC having just "elisp" in there would work as well (because when searching for "elisp" the Info reader also tries to look for "elisp.info"), so I think it's a reasonable request to elide the ".info". But I'm not sure if eliding should be the job of makeinfo or of the Info renderer. Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12187: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 14:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12187 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: 12187@debbugs.gnu.org, 'KarlBerry' Received: via spool by 12187-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12187.134486666122249 (code B ref 12187); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 14:05:01 +0000 Received: (at 12187) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2012 14:04:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53513 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0vFk-0005mM-07 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:04:21 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:46390) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0vFe-0005mC-EH for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:04:19 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q7DDteQE003352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 13:55:41 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q7DDtdV5019925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 13:55:40 GMT Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q7DDtdBe026759; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 08:55:39 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.171.13) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 06:55:39 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com><83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 06:55:25 -0700 Message-ID: <837A4A5337854402803C885693F4CD76@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac15WfJuXKx1olyTTOO/Pv01ZmujiAAAOXBg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) > >> We should not be displaying the suffix ".info". The > >> "file" name here is intended to indicate which manual you are in. > > > No, it's a file name. That's how all Info readers work. > > This is not a bug. > > I agree it's not a bug, and not a regression in the Info > reader either, but IIUC having just "elisp" in there would work > as well (because when searching for "elisp" the Info reader also > tries to look for "elisp.info"), so I think it's a reasonable > request to elide the ".info". But I'm not sure if eliding should > be the job of makeinfo or of the Info renderer. I can see both your points of view. Eli, can you speak more of the advantage of showing the suffix? E.g., are there cases where there might be more than one manual with the same file name except for the suffix? And could you elaborate on how this relates to other Info readers and why it can be important to show the suffix? I was thinking of the suffix here as essentially noise. But if there is a real use for it then I would agree that it need not be removed. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12187: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12187 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 12187@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, karl@freefriends.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 12187-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12187.134487318531958 (code B ref 12187); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 12187) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2012 15:53:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53741 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0wwy-0008JO-Jc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:53:05 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:64941) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0www-0008Ix-An for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:53:03 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0M8P00100ADBZV00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:44:18 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0M8P001SYADUAWL0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:44:18 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:44:20 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <837A4A5337854402803C885693F4CD76@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <838vdi7q5n.fsf@gnu.org> References: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> <83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> <837A4A5337854402803C885693F4CD76@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: "'KarlBerry'" , <12187@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 06:55:25 -0700 > > Eli, can you speak more of the advantage of showing the suffix? E.g., are there > cases where there might be more than one manual with the same file name except > for the suffix? Yes, there could be more than one manual with the same name, however unlikely. Not sure how important that is, though. > And could you elaborate on how this relates to other Info readers > and why it can be important to show the suffix? What you see is simply the header line of every node, verbatim, as makeinfo generates it. If you visit the Info file literally, that is what you will see there at the beginning of each node. I don't think there's some deep philosophy here, just tradition and KISS, really. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12187: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12187 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: 12187@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, karl@freefriends.org Received: via spool by 12187-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12187.13448747651813 (code B ref 12187); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:20:01 +0000 Received: (at 12187) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2012 16:19:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53762 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xMS-0000TB-Ja for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:19:25 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:42932) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xMQ-0000T4-Gy for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:19:23 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q7DGAld8001006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:10:48 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q7DGAk4C013750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:10:47 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q7DGAjad000900; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:10:46 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.248) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:10:45 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> <83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> <837A4A5337854402803C885693F4CD76@us.oracle.com> <838vdi7q5n.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:10:44 -0700 Message-ID: <8595694B4937406D9918DAF1268002E5@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <838vdi7q5n.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac15aolD8QluCKpoSaqWrtq0qOJmwAAAf8Rw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > Eli, can you speak more of the advantage of showing the > > suffix? E.g., are there cases where there might be more than > > one manual with the same file name except for the suffix? > > Yes, there could be more than one manual with the same name, however > unlikely. Not sure how important that is, though. I would think that the suffix is not very important, and I have not heard anything to the contrary. If the user had access to two manuals in different _locations_ but with the same name, then I can see an advantage in somehow making the full file name evident. (The file location is available in Emacs via `pwd' etc.) But I do not see an advantage in showing the suffix if there are two files in the same location, one with suffix .info and the other without it. > > And could you elaborate on how this relates to other Info readers > > and why it can be important to show the suffix? > > What you see is simply the header line of every node, verbatim, as > makeinfo generates it. If you visit the Info file literally, that is > what you will see there at the beginning of each node. I don't think > there's some deep philosophy here, just tradition and KISS, really. I agree with Stefan - please elide the suffix in Emacs, at least. That could be done during rendering, if you do not think that makeinfo should do it generally. >From an Emacs _user_ perspective this is a regression. Whereas, before, `File:' indicated only the manual, now it shows also a file-name suffix. Arguments saying, in effect, "but that _is_ the file" would be logically the same if Emacs suddenly started showing the full file name ("path") in that field. What is useful to users is the non-directory and non-suffix part of the file name: "elisp". Especially since the suffix has no special meaning: there are not different Info-file suffixes with different meanings, AFAIK. For users, the suffix is noise. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12187: 24.1.50; `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 22:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12187 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 12187@debbugs.gnu.org, karl@freefriends.org Received: via spool by 12187-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12187.13455882591007 (code B ref 12187); Tue, 21 Aug 2012 22:31:01 +0000 Received: (at 12187) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2012 22:30:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T3wyO-0000GA-Jv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 18:30:58 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:36916 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T3wyN-0000G2-0P for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 18:30:55 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D592451CBF8; Tue, 21 Aug 2012 15:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov Organization: JURTA References: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> <83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> <837A4A5337854402803C885693F4CD76@us.oracle.com> <838vdi7q5n.fsf@gnu.org> <8595694B4937406D9918DAF1268002E5@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 01:28:51 +0300 In-Reply-To: <8595694B4937406D9918DAF1268002E5@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:10:44 -0700") Message-ID: <87r4qzubfg.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > I agree with Stefan - please elide the suffix in Emacs, at least. > That could be done during rendering, if you do not think that > makeinfo should do it generally. This can be implemented in Emacs with the following patch. The change should have no bad effect in case when makeinfo will be changed to produce file names without suffix in the header. === modified file 'lisp/info.el' --- lisp/info.el 2012-08-20 23:44:19 +0000 +++ lisp/info.el 2012-08-21 22:27:52 +0000 @@ -4537,7 +4537,17 @@ (defun Info-fontify-node () ((not (bobp)) ;; Hide the punctuation at the end, too. (skip-chars-backward " \t,") - (put-text-property (point) header-end 'invisible t)))))) + (put-text-property (point) header-end 'invisible t) + ;; Hide the suffix of the Info file name. + (beginning-of-line) + (if (re-search-forward + (concat (format "File: %s\\([^,\n\t]*\\)" + (if (stringp Info-current-file) + (file-name-nondirectory Info-current-file) + Info-current-file))) + header-end t) + (put-text-property (match-beginning 1) (match-end 1) + 'invisible t))))))) ;; Fontify titles (goto-char (point-min)) From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:16 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.428 (Entity 5.428) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#12187: closed (Re: bug#12187: 24.1.50; `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix) Message-ID: References: <87haru7b9q.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 12187 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 12187@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:46:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1345679163-24300-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1345679163-24300-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #12187: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' w= ithout ".info" suffix which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 12187@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 12187: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D12187 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1345679163-24300-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 12187-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2012 23:45:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43979 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T4Kc7-0006J2-Dg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:45:31 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:36882 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T4Kc5-0006Is-8b for 12187-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:45:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D343451CBB4; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:45:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#12187: 24.1.50; `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Organization: JURTA References: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> <83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> <837A4A5337854402803C885693F4CD76@us.oracle.com> <838vdi7q5n.fsf@gnu.org> <8595694B4937406D9918DAF1268002E5@us.oracle.com> <87r4qzubfg.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 02:33:05 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87r4qzubfg.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2012 01:28:51 +0300") Message-ID: <87haru7b9q.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12187-done Cc: 12187-done@debbugs.gnu.org, karl@freefriends.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> I agree with Stefan - please elide the suffix in Emacs, at least. >> That could be done during rendering, if you do not think that >> makeinfo should do it generally. > > This can be implemented in Emacs with the following patch. > The change should have no bad effect in case when makeinfo > will be changed to produce file names without suffix in the header. Installed and closed. ------------=_1345679163-24300-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Aug 2012 21:09:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51844 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fPU-0005Iq-CN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:09:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55326) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fPS-0005Ij-7o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:09:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fHE-0005dE-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:53169) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fHE-0005d9-N9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60829) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fHB-00070Q-An for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fH9-0005Zw-0G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:45 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:50407) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0fH8-0005Zn-Ns for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:00:42 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q7CL0bkE029771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:00:38 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q7CL0aW6001859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:00:37 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q7CL0aE0024011 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 16:00:36 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:00:36 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:00:25 -0700 Message-ID: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac14zX6jeoUp2XVnREWiE+zoGTQLBQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) emacs -Q Set option `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' to 0. Visit an Info node. You will see something like this: File: elisp.info, Node: Introduction We should not be displaying the suffix ".info". The "file" name here is intended to indicate which manual you are in. Showing the ".info" suffix is a distraction that reflects the implementation, and it wastes space. This is a (minor) regression. In GNU Emacs 24.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-08-08 on DANI-PC Bzr revision: 109511 michael.albinus@gmx.de-20120808134045-t26l1voivvzfypey Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -I../../libs/libxpm-3.5.8/include -I../../libs/libxpm-3.5.8/src -I../../libs/libpng-1.4.10 -I../../libs/zlib-1.2.6 -I../../libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -I../../libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -I../../libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -I../../libs/libxml2-2.7.8-w32-bin/include/libxml2 -I../../libs/gnutls-3.0.16/include -I../../libs/libiconv-1.14-2-mingw32-dev/include' ------------=_1345679163-24300-1--