From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-emacs Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.13437360754310 (code B ref -1); Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:02:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2012 12:01:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52228 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB8U-00017S-BR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 08:01:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46019) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB8S-00017L-34 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 08:01:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB1M-0004r7-37 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:53:53 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:52820) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB1L-0004r2-VS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:53:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39235) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB1K-000315-TP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:53:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB1H-0004pq-2Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:53:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:41572) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB1G-0004pm-Vm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:53:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38428) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB1G-0004Ym-Nk for bug-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:53:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB1F-0004pF-FT for bug-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:53:46 -0400 Received: from exprod7og106.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.165]:45915) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwB1F-0004p0-7N for bug-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:53:45 -0400 Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com ([209.85.161.182]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob106.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUBfHSKeCeDWsh3V6JQApFMfok/hjScqC@postini.com; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 04:53:44 PDT Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so6896487ggn.13 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 04:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=weXGhc1EQuA4TyvqEu4/smFwDezI/U71GpD0+Dkam7Q=; b=awM6zxzEXQmc9Qmw6Mzx7/5DormRvRvLD1iupvuCjg8nST4/0Bc9l9CCJlRq7/IFsJ 5j0ta+iCk1d993kUKIMbsnh9wJJLF1nw2PRP0SVmzt815/a9aUPYBMlVaaP4skWpzfbi brAl8ogS/Kff6XO9a0YxP42S6NQBGP6wCPov1TY3k2jSRSmCGNJ6xIf/AzE1QzmhN6H9 v9J+beqCUiQqeTDPcYi6KZCEvT8s9VPK8BiAXBH54SJnFKQzBvWH9WownYkVV5/sNq+E S+FH10rtsYkCosSiK3C1olLpRZovhV39Kq8CUUjy5sC+AH3iAZc8/fhJCMH+CaIEc6ws zEgA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.189.135 with SMTP id gi7mr404206igc.8.1343735623418; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 04:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.199.147 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 04:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:53:43 +0100 Message-ID: From: Reuben Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl4WMNA7YHoWUWjafAkY2tx6pHKBL5t7HGN1XI5zMLVlyV8pXb1jJB9P+1o+AXssGaDosuN X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) In a discussion on gnu-prog-discuss today, there was an attempt to script Emacs as a standalone info reader. It was also desired to make it format man pages (like the standalone info reader) for programs that don't have an info manual. The initial script to do this used woman, but when there are man pages in multiple sections with the same name, woman prompts for completion, unlike the standalone info reader, which, like man, just fetches the "first" man page of the right name. Hence, I tried to adapt the script to use man instead of woman, but I found it impossible, because of the way that man works asynchronously, to trap the error when no man page is found. The problem is that the error is trapped already, in Man-bgproc-sentinel, so the caller of "man" cannot find out whether the call was successful. Personally, I'd just rip out all the asynchronous stuff and make "man" synchronous (I have man set to "bully" mode in my setup), but I am guessing that would be an unpopular change, so I'm wondering if there's some other way to make it possible to use man synchronously and/or allow man's caller to find out about errors. -- http://rrt.sc3d.org From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: Acknowledgement (How to trap errors in man?) Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 13:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134374223813356 (code B ref 12098); Tue, 31 Jul 2012 13:44:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2012 13:43:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52346 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwCju-0003TM-5l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:43:58 -0400 Received: from exprod7og110.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.173]:44630) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwCjs-0003TC-S6 for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:43:57 -0400 Received: from mail-gg0-f171.google.com ([209.85.161.171]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob110.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUBffYT1b6c4jdxHGK29p+Xx4nEAyjLi8@postini.com; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:36:37 PDT Received: by mail-gg0-f171.google.com with SMTP id i1so7624533ggm.30 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:36:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=LLPkZfPedbbrEaLa6jtgxX0CsTluvYBpEaJeUcCzmRI=; b=lw7xVXGXadi3DYWMFwYwJ7SFL5C1cQdCPx0T8gAahPqzTngPQGsyy/mewiyIgYWYS+ Gxn+2/hNdNJhkZX651a5NPjVRihKvyryB1EA1ClU6UZM4s4jWjsV/bnXkaToarJvs2Mm HYNVQ7zFEqryPQqWNqMwFzBx5vQpkbRWIqBLac52OqRyQ6rJ7tvmSR9FdliHoDf7MM/1 WlzFiWZbFb9cDhCCEhpQDZIBIpreUSUd11c7bmHfarFu3CBDm6wZFx4PPjnASFSOgEzg cg6siGP60bk3JTMT3AstLvnQanyaIBAHxZKLx/RjACEbWpfrY1ikwL1W/HiQLW1tQh5Q 9F5g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.10.166 with SMTP id j6mr1999206igb.38.1343741793280; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.199.147 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:36:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:36:33 +0100 Message-ID: From: Reuben Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm9IwpYK+3pgH2+mgCL39p17LG6wPHGMb9S3TIr4Db+Z5fiZUqN8n5OfypLEZtXLjrvUHJe X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) I found a workaround: unbind start-process, which causes man to be run synchronously, which means that there's no process-sentinel to trap any error, so the caller can trap it. Of course, this works for my application (a wrapper for standalone Emacs), but it's not so good for use in code that is supposed to work in a normal Emacs session. -- http://rrt.sc3d.org From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: Acknowledgement (How to trap errors in man?) Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Reuben Thomas Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134375258228545 (code B ref 12098); Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:37:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2012 16:36:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwFQk-0007QM-1o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:36:22 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:56979) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwFQh-0007QA-7Q for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:36:20 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0M81005009MRWA00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:27:57 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0M810051A9QIW810@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:27:55 +0300 (IDT) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:27:51 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <833947gak8.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:36:33 +0100 > From: Reuben Thomas > > I found a workaround: unbind start-process, which causes man to be run > synchronously, which means that there's no process-sentinel to trap > any error, so the caller can trap it. Please, when you have time, donate $0.02 to the MSDOS port of Emacs, which made this possible. From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 00:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Reuben Thomas Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.13437810874704 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 00:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 00:31:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53426 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwMqU-0001Do-Jd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:31:27 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:36140 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwMqR-0001Da-Mm for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:31:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7802451CB8B; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:24:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov Organization: JURTA References: Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 03:15:40 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Reuben Thomas's message of "Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:53:43 +0100") Message-ID: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > In a discussion on gnu-prog-discuss today, there was an attempt to > script Emacs as a standalone info reader. It was also desired to make > it format man pages (like the standalone info reader) for programs > that don't have an info manual. The Emacs Info reader can format man pages with the help of info-man.el. > Personally, I'd just rip out all the asynchronous stuff and make "man" > synchronous (I have man set to "bully" mode in my setup), but I am > guessing that would be an unpopular change, Yes, the delay when the whole session is freezing during formatting would be undesirable. The current situation with asynchronous popping up buffers is not perfect either. In bug#9084 we are trying to improve this by modifying man.el to work more like async shell commands. > so I'm wondering if there's some other way to make it possible to use > man synchronously and/or allow man's caller to find out about errors. You can use `Man-cooked-hook' that is called at the end of `Man-bgproc-sentinel'. In this hook you can check whether the value of `Man-page-list' is nil. From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 00:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.13437819586084 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 00:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 00:45:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53454 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwN4Y-0001a5-4E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:45:58 -0400 Received: from exprod7og113.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.179]:39232) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwN4U-0001Zg-CR for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:45:55 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f179.google.com ([209.85.213.179]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob113.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUBh6edPb4LdRFvZYyyZUzqEPtTja6HoU@postini.com; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:38:32 PDT Received: by mail-yx0-f179.google.com with SMTP id r13so6256533yen.38 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:38:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=jtdXdejiNfc8IAzwnKdtih/m2KK9deKzBZC36+CdXLY=; b=W3O7W9/4B7Zkynw0qXFpyFCEvOb5ehtFLpIgh/E8VG17icZ4qHCduQJEVG1e8Rb/S/ YIgEXnughdiyCUYqsoH8wTAFQj3XHye+ZFp+nzQElAxMWr3ZqUNOs+6J2WIT0wOQrisd +cAer/9QPhxri2a+XUvvRmVY3i234F/PmLl1vyXHdqMkSRsxAN8G8m3V8i7fyfAqmo6I Wqus1tj4lQTlQRYN1tKF/WfrqfLwQMV6V+5FnqaG8a9R7yawlfoCxNPef2Fm/RArE+XQ 9yXc7/y7/8B6N8OJPlgkmQbhnA0mSPIkQRGjacqH8JXs0IhwhB0SxDpaqPgIQzdZLRMv QObQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.95.136 with SMTP id dk8mr3704746igb.8.1343781497549; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.199.147 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:38:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 01:38:17 +0100 Message-ID: From: Reuben Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk8Jm9ga0WFfIGhF1Wvw6L00dpkr8zNbIIYaiVyBN+Ym5XHa5sUupEL5JUBffWiUe3v1bTC X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) On 1 August 2012 01:15, Juri Linkov wrote: > > The Emacs Info reader can format man pages with the help > of info-man.el. This doesn't appear to be standard. >> Personally, I'd just rip out all the asynchronous stuff and make "man" >> synchronous (I have man set to "bully" mode in my setup), but I am >> guessing that would be an unpopular change, > > Yes, the delay when the whole session is freezing during formatting would > be undesirable. There are plenty of things that freeze the session for much longer than the fraction of a second it takes to format most man pages! Even bash(1) only takes about a second. What workflow do you have in mind where a user starts a man page and then does something else for at most a few seconds? The idea of requesting some documentation and then doing something else for a few seconds is a bit odd to me=85 > In bug#9084 we are trying to improve this by > modifying man.el to work more like async shell > commands. Are you sure about that bug number? I looked and it seems to be about window layout. > You can use `Man-cooked-hook' that is called at the end of > `Man-bgproc-sentinel'. In this hook you can check whether the value of > `Man-page-list' is nil. I can't see how to use this to communicate back to a particular caller that man failed; help? --=20 http://rrt.sc3d.org From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Thierry Volpiatto Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 08:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.134381014313947 (code B ref -1); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 08:36:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 08:35:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53906 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUP5-0003cq-4m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:35:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36917) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUP2-0003ci-F6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:35:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUHn-0001WB-6N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:28:12 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:50705) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUHn-0001W7-2b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:28:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53234) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUHl-0007dh-Vz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:28:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUHk-0001Vo-Eo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:28:05 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:54300) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUHk-0001Vf-76 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:28:04 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUHi-0002yQ-PZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:28:02 +0200 Received: from lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net ([78.243.104.167]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:28:02 +0200 Received: from thierry.volpiatto by lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:28:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ From: Thierry Volpiatto Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:27:52 +0200 Lines: 44 Message-ID: <87ehnrqanr.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Ep0va7QIOuUvH/k2F98c+qnuago= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Juri Linkov writes: >> In a discussion on gnu-prog-discuss today, there was an attempt to >> script Emacs as a standalone info reader. It was also desired to make >> it format man pages (like the standalone info reader) for programs >> that don't have an info manual. > > The Emacs Info reader can format man pages with the help > of info-man.el. > >> Personally, I'd just rip out all the asynchronous stuff and make "man" >> synchronous (I have man set to "bully" mode in my setup), but I am >> guessing that would be an unpopular change, > > Yes, the delay when the whole session is freezing during formatting would > be undesirable. The current situation with asynchronous popping up buffers > is not perfect either. In bug#9084 we are trying to improve this by > modifying man.el to work more like async shell commands. `Man-getpage-in-background' use (if (fboundp 'start-process) to check if it start an asynchronous process or not. Why in Emacs-24 `start-process' would not exists? Why instead don't you add an optional arg to `Man-getpage-in-background' to make it synchronous? It would be instead of (if (fboundp 'start-process): (if synchronous start-man-synchronously start-man-async This would allow to make an user variable that allow to choose if man is async or not. It is simple and change nothing to actual code. >> so I'm wondering if there's some other way to make it possible to use >> man synchronously and/or allow man's caller to find out about errors. > > You can use `Man-cooked-hook' that is called at the end of > `Man-bgproc-sentinel'. In this hook you can check whether the value of > `Man-page-list' is nil. > > > > -- Thierry Get my Gnupg key: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 08:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Reuben Thomas Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134381054414587 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 08:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 08:42:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53963 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUVb-0003nC-AC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:42:24 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:47605 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUVW-0003mw-1r for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:42:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A6F2451CB7F; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 01:34:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov Organization: JURTA References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:23:30 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Reuben Thomas's message of "Wed, 1 Aug 2012 01:38:17 +0100") Message-ID: <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > There are plenty of things that freeze the session for much longer > than the fraction of a second it takes to format most man pages! Even > bash(1) only takes about a second. You are right, the largest man page `man bash' takes just 2 sec to format, so perhaps it makes no sense to run the man command asynchronously nowadays. The patch below introduces a new variable `Man-async' whose value could be set to nil to run `man' synchronously. > Are you sure about that bug number? I looked and it seems to be about > window layout. That's right, currently the async mode of man has its peculiarities: it arranges window layouts after formatting is done, so formatting can't fit into window layout. So perhaps we should have two asynchronous modes: 1. delay changes in window configuration until the process is finished and man page is formatted. 2. prepare window layout before formatting; I'm still not sure whether we need the former for backward compatibility, so `Man-async' could have a special value for it. > I can't see how to use this to communicate back to a particular caller > that man failed; help? I don't know if it's possible with lack of multi-threading to yield to the command loop while waiting for the process output. But with the following patch you can run `man' synchronously by using just `(let ((Man-async nil)) (man "bash"))' when its default value is not nil. === modified file 'lisp/man.el' --- lisp/man.el 2012-07-11 23:13:41 +0000 +++ lisp/man.el 2012-08-01 08:23:10 +0000 @@ -144,6 +144,20 @@ (defcustom Man-reverse-face 'highlight :type 'face :group 'man) +(defcustom Man-async nil + "Synchronicity of the manpage command. +If nil, run the manpage command synchronously. +If t, run the manpage command asynchronously +preparing output windows before the process is started. +If the value is `delayed', run the manpage command +asynchronously but delay changes in window configuration +until the process is finished and man page is formatted." + :type '(choice (const :tag "Synchronous" nil) + (const :tag "Asynchronous" t) + (const :tag "Delayed" delayed)) + :group 'man + :version "24.2") + ;; Use the value of the obsolete user option Man-notify, if set. (defcustom Man-notify-method (if (boundp 'Man-notify) Man-notify 'friendly) "Selects the behavior when manpage is ready. @@ -904,16 +920,37 @@ (defun Man-getpage-in-background (topic) Return the buffer in which the manpage will appear." (let* ((man-args topic) (bufname (concat "*Man " man-args "*")) - (buffer (get-buffer bufname))) + (buffer (get-buffer bufname)) + (procbufname (concat " " bufname)) + procbuffer) (if buffer (Man-notify-when-ready buffer) (require 'env) - (message "Invoking %s %s in the background" manual-program man-args) - (setq buffer (generate-new-buffer bufname)) - (with-current-buffer buffer - (setq buffer-undo-list t) - (setq Man-original-frame (selected-frame)) - (setq Man-arguments man-args)) + (cond + ((eq Man-async 'delayed) + (message "Invoking %s %s in the background" manual-program man-args) + (setq buffer (generate-new-buffer bufname)) + (with-current-buffer buffer + (setq buffer-undo-list t) + (setq Man-original-frame (selected-frame)) + (setq Man-arguments man-args))) + (t + (setq buffer (generate-new-buffer bufname)) + (setq procbuffer (generate-new-buffer procbufname)) + ;; Display empty output buffer. + (unless (memq Man-notify-method '(polite quiet meek)) + (Man-notify-when-ready buffer)) + (with-current-buffer buffer + (insert (format "Invoking %s %s in the background\n" + manual-program man-args)) + (setq buffer-undo-list t) + (setq Man-original-frame (selected-frame)) + (setq Man-arguments man-args)) + (with-current-buffer procbuffer + (setq buffer-undo-list t) + (setq Man-original-frame (selected-frame)) + (setq Man-arguments man-args)))) + (let ((process-environment (copy-sequence process-environment)) ;; The following is so Awk script gets \n intact ;; But don't prevent decoding of the outside. @@ -952,16 +989,26 @@ (defun Man-getpage-in-background (topic) (cond ((and (integerp Man-width) (> Man-width 0)) Man-width) - (Man-width (frame-width)) - ((window-width)))))) + (Man-width + (if (eq Man-async 'delayed) + (frame-width) + (with-selected-window (get-buffer-window + buffer t) + (frame-width)))) + (t + (if (eq Man-async 'delayed) + (window-width) + (with-selected-window (get-buffer-window + buffer t) + (window-width)))))))) (setenv "GROFF_NO_SGR" "1") ;; Since man-db 2.4.3-1, man writes plain text with no escape ;; sequences when stdout is not a tty. In 2.5.0, the following ;; env-var was added to allow control of this (see Debian Bug#340673). (setenv "MAN_KEEP_FORMATTING" "1") - (if (fboundp 'start-process) + (if (and Man-async (fboundp 'start-process)) (set-process-sentinel - (start-process manual-program buffer + (start-process manual-program (if (eq Man-async 'delayed) buffer procbuffer) (if (memq system-type '(cygwin windows-nt)) shell-file-name "sh") @@ -969,7 +1016,7 @@ (defun Man-getpage-in-background (topic) (format (Man-build-man-command) man-args)) 'Man-bgproc-sentinel) (let ((exit-status - (call-process shell-file-name nil (list buffer nil) nil + (call-process shell-file-name nil (list procbuffer nil) nil shell-command-switch (format (Man-build-man-command) man-args))) (msg "")) @@ -980,7 +1027,7 @@ (defun Man-getpage-in-background (topic) (format "exited abnormally with code %d" exit-status))) (setq msg exit-status)) - (Man-bgproc-sentinel bufname msg))))) + (Man-bgproc-sentinel procbufname msg))))) buffer)) (defun Man-notify-when-ready (man-buffer) @@ -1216,16 +1263,18 @@ (defun Man-bgproc-sentinel (process msg) synchronously, PROCESS is the name of the buffer where the manpage command is run. Second argument MSG is the exit message of the manpage command." - (let ((Man-buffer (if (stringp process) (get-buffer process) - (process-buffer process))) - (delete-buff nil) - (err-mess nil)) + (let* ((Man-procbuffer (if (stringp process) (get-buffer process) + (process-buffer process))) + (Man-buffer (get-buffer (replace-regexp-in-string + "\\` " "" (buffer-name Man-procbuffer)))) + (delete-buff nil) + (err-mess nil)) (if (null (buffer-name Man-buffer)) ;; deleted buffer (or (stringp process) (set-process-buffer process nil)) - (with-current-buffer Man-buffer + (with-current-buffer Man-procbuffer (let ((case-fold-search nil)) (goto-char (point-min)) (cond ((or (looking-at "No \\(manual \\)*entry for") @@ -1261,11 +1310,17 @@ (defun Man-bgproc-sentinel (process msg) (Man-fontify-manpage) (Man-cleanup-manpage)) + (unless (eq Man-async 'delayed) + (copy-to-buffer Man-buffer (point-min) (point-max)))))) + + (unless delete-buff + (with-current-buffer (if (eq Man-async 'delayed) Man-procbuffer Man-buffer) (run-hooks 'Man-cooked-hook) (Man-mode) @@ -1279,11 +1342,13 @@ (defun Man-bgproc-sentinel (process msg) ;; Man-notify-when-ready because it may switch buffers. (if (not delete-buff) - (Man-notify-when-ready Man-buffer)) + (when (or (eq Man-async 'delayed) + (memq Man-notify-method '(polite quiet meek))) + (Man-notify-when-ready Man-buffer))) (if err-mess (error "%s" err-mess)) - )))) + ))) (defun Man-page-from-arguments (args) ;; Skip arguments and only print the page name. From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 08:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thierry Volpiatto Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134381099515383 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 08:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 08:49:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53987 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUcs-000404-F2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:49:54 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:50044 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUcn-0003zu-LB for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:49:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7EC451CB31; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 01:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov Organization: JURTA References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87ehnrqanr.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:41:35 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87ehnrqanr.fsf@gmail.com> (Thierry Volpiatto's message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:27:52 +0200") Message-ID: <87txwnvwao.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > `Man-getpage-in-background' use (if (fboundp 'start-process) to check if > it start an asynchronous process or not. > Why in Emacs-24 `start-process' would not exists? > Why instead don't you add an optional arg to `Man-getpage-in-background' > to make it synchronous? > It would be instead of (if (fboundp 'start-process): > (if synchronous start-man-synchronously start-man-async > This would allow to make an user variable that allow to choose if man is > async or not. Yes, this is what is implemented with a new `Man-async' in another post I just sent. Do you agree that man should be synchronous by default? From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Thierry Volpiatto Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134381195516746 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 09:05:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54001 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUsN-0004M3-6I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:05:55 -0400 Received: from mail-wi0-f174.google.com ([209.85.212.174]:52341) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUsM-0004Lw-0f for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:05:54 -0400 Received: by wibhr14 with SMTP id hr14so3022390wib.15 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 01:58:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=udnZbFwLIowZcZ46imVxckOXasPmuzlaFYytqQl0fkQ=; b=R6Hs5feUh6e4o/EgRcUJBrkTKAyCyi2UZQUWXUrpHWX1ioHCOHt0mOMlKBak2X3nAn pDYosVC8el3ZGbAUm2xKNn2/tSENN7vKWgMxk1e1CavfaOrBTkj5ldie9AZVWslEqcFt J6qH9+rFyM+6HJPH2Tn9K4iOgue88Rr2QwYgr/s2hZbqxxXEMxOIF8LLByAOuOS1ZDVB SV9vJOjpQu3gTGINvPY3R1nPmEHGW7Cktlh8Z2i8X+rHmhLL8mVC/JiM+IWOgVhAWDZ7 ovG2c0tX9YOULAM8FVWjm3P26w4mwIwjFyZtnwcTkPaJJQOdWeXO9VE3Gw8K4xsd8kli yIwg== Received: by 10.216.179.205 with SMTP id h55mr8753142wem.100.1343811509394; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 01:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thierry-MM061 (lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net. [78.243.104.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id eu4sm26889709wib.2.2012.08.01.01.58.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 01:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Thierry Volpiatto References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87ehnrqanr.fsf@gmail.com> <87txwnvwao.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:58:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87txwnvwao.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:41:35 +0300") Message-ID: <87a9yfq98z.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Juri Linkov writes: >> `Man-getpage-in-background' use (if (fboundp 'start-process) to check if >> it start an asynchronous process or not. >> Why in Emacs-24 `start-process' would not exists? >> Why instead don't you add an optional arg to `Man-getpage-in-background' >> to make it synchronous? >> It would be instead of (if (fboundp 'start-process): >> (if synchronous start-man-synchronously start-man-async >> This would allow to make an user variable that allow to choose if man is >> async or not. > > Yes, this is what is implemented with a new `Man-async' > in another post I just sent. Ah! good. > Do you agree that man should be synchronous by default? Yes. Also `Man-notify-method' should be more accessible (more let-bindable) probably by making it local, but I may be wrong there (need to look at the code). -- Thierry Get my Gnupg key: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Andy Moreton Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.134381244717464 (code B ref -1); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:15:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 09:14:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54021 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwV0J-0004Xc-1E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:14:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50036) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwV0H-0004XW-3c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:14:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUt3-0005NT-Ev for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:06:41 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:49336) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUt3-0005NP-51 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:06:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45108) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUsx-0006n2-B6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:06:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUsr-0005MM-BY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:06:31 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:51757) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUsr-0005ME-4f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:06:25 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SwUsl-00015e-Bc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:06:19 +0200 Received: from uk.solarflare.com ([193.34.186.16]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:06:19 +0200 Received: from andrewjmoreton by uk.solarflare.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:06:19 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ From: Andy Moreton Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:05:59 +0100 Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: uk.solarflare.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xLBcILuWZxK+LfJqcbrxzc0FTRw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) On Wed 01 Aug 2012, Reuben Thomas wrote: > On 1 August 2012 01:15, Juri Linkov wrote: >> >> The Emacs Info reader can format man pages with the help >> of info-man.el. > > This doesn't appear to be standard. > >>> Personally, I'd just rip out all the asynchronous stuff and make "man" >>> synchronous (I have man set to "bully" mode in my setup), but I am >>> guessing that would be an unpopular change, >> >> Yes, the delay when the whole session is freezing during formatting would >> be undesirable. > > There are plenty of things that freeze the session for much longer > than the fraction of a second it takes to format most man pages! Even > bash(1) only takes about a second. What workflow do you have in mind > where a user starts a man page and then does something else for at > most a few seconds? The idea of requesting some documentation and then > doing something else for a few seconds is a bit odd to me… things freezing for any reason should be something to be removed everywhere, not an excuse for allowing more badness. Async fetching and formatting of man pages is very useful if the man page is on a remote host running a different OS. AndyM From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Thierry Volpiatto Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.134381382019410 (code B ref -1); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:37:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 09:37:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54056 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwVMS-000531-3n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:37:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42308) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwVMQ-00052u-9X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:36:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwVFA-0003bI-E4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:29:34 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35090) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwVFA-0003bD-BN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:29:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50731) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwVF4-00079j-KD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:29:28 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwVF3-0003ae-L9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:29:22 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:36332) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SwVF3-0003aV-E8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 05:29:21 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SwVEx-0006Zu-RH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:29:15 +0200 Received: from lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net ([78.243.104.167]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:29:15 +0200 Received: from thierry.volpiatto by lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:29:15 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ From: Thierry Volpiatto Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:29:00 +0200 Lines: 33 Message-ID: <876293q7tv.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87ehnrqanr.fsf@gmail.com> <87txwnvwao.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87a9yfq98z.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:rot6kjYoGv8FZ5igv+2p2HWT1sE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Thierry Volpiatto writes: > Juri Linkov writes: > >>> `Man-getpage-in-background' use (if (fboundp 'start-process) to check if >>> it start an asynchronous process or not. >>> Why in Emacs-24 `start-process' would not exists? >>> Why instead don't you add an optional arg to `Man-getpage-in-background' >>> to make it synchronous? >>> It would be instead of (if (fboundp 'start-process): >>> (if synchronous start-man-synchronously start-man-async >>> This would allow to make an user variable that allow to choose if man is >>> async or not. >> >> Yes, this is what is implemented with a new `Man-async' >> in another post I just sent. > Ah! good. > >> Do you agree that man should be synchronous by default? > Yes. > > Also `Man-notify-method' should be more accessible (more let-bindable) > probably by making it local, but I may be wrong there (need to look at > the code). Also while you are at it, it would be helpful to add a 't' value to the require-match arg of completing-read in `man'. Thanks. -- Thierry Get my Gnupg key: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134381995928593 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 11:19:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54270 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwWxS-0007R7-DZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 07:19:19 -0400 Received: from exprod7og120.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.18]:52640) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwWxQ-0007Qy-0M for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 07:19:17 -0400 Received: from mail-yw0-f42.google.com ([209.85.213.42]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob120.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUBkO9i/TwKjYvJALMTJ+GpUMq+pTSPy8@postini.com; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:11:51 PDT Received: by mail-yw0-f42.google.com with SMTP id o21so6346084yho.15 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:11:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=WyLzotA88PVHPq6+HTiFJ+tRZCQHvD8k57R7zQIgnJE=; b=h4Zj1KsHZVKZjQi/H2l4lrAPecJjVhWEtbDIzk2YmKivtvSjhAPEdBQ69YRbc1Ky5Y J/0HT1RmWwjmoqFtlt64gO7PU3iteAn+2XRwsuCRL2ug4D9+2BlXrkNk/SRcONoV3FSv mkQAHbl2G+kTlMzVKS5hiNXSyQ1JyqPx3a0UApei5z9genLTXFE3mnUu9HoWvZ44TbhH MsszPd65qaMjbz0gof0ViirYEAUW4UlnB7LPqoS9MOGma+jpEz55n2WYtt1/OdgF9Jzl qCrUjaMcZKZI3o6CR4qIwTmy2BdnHARqU/YNL1tjsCxtiyL0UyT3tdO7ygamYul39AS+ Uqcg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.182.229 with SMTP id eh5mr3634683igc.38.1343819510478; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 04:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.126.66 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 04:11:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 12:11:50 +0100 Message-ID: From: Reuben Thomas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlVOzJBkXkHU7OsfV6DqP9Uby4zXslHR2ZBLl6A4Rmv+zHBdyqgiVpQLV5cJw7YdeMjxeWf X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) On 1 August 2012 09:23, Juri Linkov wrote: > > You are right, the largest man page `man bash' takes just 2 sec to format, > so perhaps it makes no sense to run the man command asynchronously nowadays. I would certainly take that view if it were I who had to maintain the code! > I don't know if it's possible with lack of multi-threading > to yield to the command loop while waiting for the process output. > But with the following patch you can run `man' synchronously > by using just `(let ((Man-async nil)) (man "bash"))' when its > default value is not nil. That looks great if the patch were installed. -- http://rrt.sc3d.org From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Andy Moreton Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134386341331263 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:24:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 23:23:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55529 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwiGK-000887-W8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 19:23:33 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:59032 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwiGJ-00087y-VY for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 19:23:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BC3451CBB2; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:16:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov Organization: JURTA References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 02:10:54 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Andy Moreton's message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:05:59 +0100") Message-ID: <87lihycjld.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > things freezing for any reason should be something to be removed > everywhere, not an excuse for allowing more badness. > > Async fetching and formatting of man pages is very useful if the man > page is on a remote host running a different OS. I guess the distinction is exactly like between sync and async shell commands. When you know that a command will finish quickly, `shell-command' is more preferable, whereas `async-shell-command' is better for a long-running process. From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Thierry Volpiatto Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134386341731277 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:24:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Aug 2012 23:23:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55532 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwiGO-00088Q-GQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 19:23:36 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:59043 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwiGM-00088I-Cu for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 19:23:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7E9451CBA6; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:16:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov Organization: JURTA References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87ehnrqanr.fsf@gmail.com> <87txwnvwao.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87a9yfq98z.fsf@gmail.com> <876293q7tv.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 02:12:05 +0300 In-Reply-To: <876293q7tv.fsf@gmail.com> (Thierry Volpiatto's message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:29:00 +0200") Message-ID: <87ehnqb4i9.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > Also `Man-notify-method' should be more accessible (more let-bindable) > probably by making it local, but I may be wrong there (need to look at > the code). This will be possible when you let-bind both `Man-notify-method' and `Man-async': (let ((Man-async nil) (Man-notify-method 'pushy)) (man "bash")) > Also while you are at it, it would be helpful to add a 't' value to the > require-match arg of completing-read in `man'. But what if `man' is unable to get a complete list of all available man pages? Then you can't read some man pages. For instance, this happens when you install a new package with a man page, but Man-completion-cache is not updated. This is a very rare problem, and you can still read the man page by entering its name without completion. From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Thierry Volpiatto Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 05:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.134388529329899 (code B ref 12098); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 05:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2012 05:28:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55820 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwnxF-0007mC-Ek for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 01:28:13 -0400 Received: from mail-wi0-f174.google.com ([209.85.212.174]:36788) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SwnxB-0007m2-KZ for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 01:28:12 -0400 Received: by wibhr14 with SMTP id hr14so3795627wib.15 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:20:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=oCimwsR+gG5LNn69e8Yl3qIXZE0UDFZGpWH/F99BpjE=; b=Q648acNFVng4xs2qulJm4Ho88TwLo4362DXxGkmYDIBTj05/z4W46PvVsKTp4sL2ME yXwmm5O64Wm0ELGylpFOqtMbhre6CdNEMajwiwMCA7bMH6mjDXuczOODYnumZ3dQVAVD gjgNvF9CSkmNOzo8l8mZ5rI7wQNWtepF8LKl55xtkWeYcNaJLorgFKvVqqGwG+NTUJST 0xh0jtk0Z41Qyil+vw1KrqA5K1aeCUx/KdR93+FlDzj85S6rX8rSYbhwdcdOS+iybAvq qRUPho6qzVdDi9IZpryi4MK4N33PDKMb79nUNRQvJSIjJUMfzDI3QYW3GerOn7vrnLX1 63Qw== Received: by 10.180.105.6 with SMTP id gi6mr1603547wib.4.1343884840124; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thierry-MM061 (lbe83-2-78-243-104-167.fbx.proxad.net. [78.243.104.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bc2sm14436024wib.0.2012.08.01.22.20.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:20:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Thierry Volpiatto References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87ehnrqanr.fsf@gmail.com> <87txwnvwao.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87a9yfq98z.fsf@gmail.com> <876293q7tv.fsf@gmail.com> <87ehnqb4i9.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 07:20:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87ehnqb4i9.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 02 Aug 2012 02:12:05 +0300") Message-ID: <87obmtkgyr.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Juri Linkov writes: >> Also `Man-notify-method' should be more accessible (more let-bindable) >> probably by making it local, but I may be wrong there (need to look at >> the code). > > This will be possible when you let-bind both `Man-notify-method' > and `Man-async': > > (let ((Man-async nil) (Man-notify-method 'pushy)) (man "bash")) Ok thanks. >> Also while you are at it, it would be helpful to add a 't' value to the >> require-match arg of completing-read in `man'. > > But what if `man' is unable to get a complete list of all available man pages? > Then you can't read some man pages. For instance, this happens when > you install a new package with a man page, but Man-completion-cache > is not updated. This is a very rare problem, and you can still > read the man page by entering its name without completion. It would be better in this case to reload the cache e.g with a prefix arg do (setq Man-completion-cache nil) before calling completing-read. -- Thierry Get my Gnupg key: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: 12098@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.1597841389827 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 12:49:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38508 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8NXI-0000DB-EE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:49:48 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f177.google.com ([209.85.219.177]:43076) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8NXG-0000Co-6T for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:49:46 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f177.google.com with SMTP id m200so13249622ybf.10 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:49:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oHtZIygjTBgZQVR6Z4szAgtdGLfEiOUciiC82pEodTo=; b=TlL1Xm/nat8UeOXd6YQoEiGU2mtnZIFOqFwXYIjelLn1sdvvzin2ccrT5SsiSCUDPo 1DKvvASh4cwNGGioakeAoZ6/wJV/m+bQAIsrGOEMJHvyFbe8CZHyW/G2QamrXn95rdHH Fp64ooZ1oS4w9FeG3oldkPgnecexG/y4dWSw0OsSJhmDZ0mO+mxhqODtTDmt4IQ5Y4eE 5os9DrHoyQ284hOfP4EXKGiae3Qr5WU6/YvG5Rkkm1j6gXZXEudppyZsbNoTEoSqNk7t VgOnLxebFBhrbvPMu3FyPtJyGl7huxtZ/b0mKNiPeUZUhshfm1bORGMIrzHYFVUYzEi6 bQag== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531KSPbcXX8+Mw1IUTVX3AOJztmpe8VpQ5riSmkZVAjqunPk1y1B ccs2AS/xTmSUGkV5tBN5oAlYmD2eOXENJvBzP1ANmp/Rr3g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxIS4M2sZXrsVbAxWbKPtZXkYeuluiRwmB9H7JBkq9Bi8LcWV8vk6ac3sQgGHs6l+Pxan6QxfbrbQOOkinhNb8= X-Received: by 2002:a25:4ed7:: with SMTP id c206mr35215933ybb.129.1597841380472; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:49:39 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:23:30 +0300") References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:49:39 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) severity 12098 wishlist tags 12098 + patch moreinfo thanks Juri Linkov writes: >> There are plenty of things that freeze the session for much longer >> than the fraction of a second it takes to format most man pages! Even >> bash(1) only takes about a second. > > You are right, the largest man page `man bash' takes just 2 sec to format, > so perhaps it makes no sense to run the man command asynchronously nowadays. > > The patch below introduces a new variable `Man-async' whose value > could be set to nil to run `man' synchronously. > >> Are you sure about that bug number? I looked and it seems to be about >> window layout. > > That's right, currently the async mode of man has its peculiarities: > it arranges window layouts after formatting is done, so formatting > can't fit into window layout. > > So perhaps we should have two asynchronous modes: > 1. delay changes in window configuration > until the process is finished and man page is formatted. > 2. prepare window layout before formatting; > > I'm still not sure whether we need the former for backward compatibility, > so `Man-async' could have a special value for it. > >> I can't see how to use this to communicate back to a particular caller >> that man failed; help? > > I don't know if it's possible with lack of multi-threading > to yield to the command loop while waiting for the process output. > But with the following patch you can run `man' synchronously > by using just `(let ((Man-async nil)) (man "bash"))' when its > default value is not nil. This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. I'm not sure it's worth the added complexity. Any other opinions? > === modified file 'lisp/man.el' > --- lisp/man.el 2012-07-11 23:13:41 +0000 > +++ lisp/man.el 2012-08-01 08:23:10 +0000 > @@ -144,6 +144,20 @@ (defcustom Man-reverse-face 'highlight > :type 'face > :group 'man) > > +(defcustom Man-async nil > + "Synchronicity of the manpage command. > +If nil, run the manpage command synchronously. > +If t, run the manpage command asynchronously > +preparing output windows before the process is started. > +If the value is `delayed', run the manpage command > +asynchronously but delay changes in window configuration > +until the process is finished and man page is formatted." > + :type '(choice (const :tag "Synchronous" nil) > + (const :tag "Asynchronous" t) > + (const :tag "Delayed" delayed)) > + :group 'man > + :version "24.2") > + > ;; Use the value of the obsolete user option Man-notify, if set. > (defcustom Man-notify-method (if (boundp 'Man-notify) Man-notify 'friendly) > "Selects the behavior when manpage is ready. > @@ -904,16 +920,37 @@ (defun Man-getpage-in-background (topic) > Return the buffer in which the manpage will appear." > (let* ((man-args topic) > (bufname (concat "*Man " man-args "*")) > - (buffer (get-buffer bufname))) > + (buffer (get-buffer bufname)) > + (procbufname (concat " " bufname)) > + procbuffer) > (if buffer > (Man-notify-when-ready buffer) > (require 'env) > - (message "Invoking %s %s in the background" manual-program man-args) > - (setq buffer (generate-new-buffer bufname)) > - (with-current-buffer buffer > - (setq buffer-undo-list t) > - (setq Man-original-frame (selected-frame)) > - (setq Man-arguments man-args)) > + (cond > + ((eq Man-async 'delayed) > + (message "Invoking %s %s in the background" manual-program man-args) > + (setq buffer (generate-new-buffer bufname)) > + (with-current-buffer buffer > + (setq buffer-undo-list t) > + (setq Man-original-frame (selected-frame)) > + (setq Man-arguments man-args))) > + (t > + (setq buffer (generate-new-buffer bufname)) > + (setq procbuffer (generate-new-buffer procbufname)) > + ;; Display empty output buffer. > + (unless (memq Man-notify-method '(polite quiet meek)) > + (Man-notify-when-ready buffer)) > + (with-current-buffer buffer > + (insert (format "Invoking %s %s in the background\n" > + manual-program man-args)) > + (setq buffer-undo-list t) > + (setq Man-original-frame (selected-frame)) > + (setq Man-arguments man-args)) > + (with-current-buffer procbuffer > + (setq buffer-undo-list t) > + (setq Man-original-frame (selected-frame)) > + (setq Man-arguments man-args)))) > + > (let ((process-environment (copy-sequence process-environment)) > ;; The following is so Awk script gets \n intact > ;; But don't prevent decoding of the outside. > @@ -952,16 +989,26 @@ (defun Man-getpage-in-background (topic) > (cond > ((and (integerp Man-width) (> Man-width 0)) > Man-width) > - (Man-width (frame-width)) > - ((window-width)))))) > + (Man-width > + (if (eq Man-async 'delayed) > + (frame-width) > + (with-selected-window (get-buffer-window > + buffer t) > + (frame-width)))) > + (t > + (if (eq Man-async 'delayed) > + (window-width) > + (with-selected-window (get-buffer-window > + buffer t) > + (window-width)))))))) > (setenv "GROFF_NO_SGR" "1") > ;; Since man-db 2.4.3-1, man writes plain text with no escape > ;; sequences when stdout is not a tty. In 2.5.0, the following > ;; env-var was added to allow control of this (see Debian Bug#340673). > (setenv "MAN_KEEP_FORMATTING" "1") > - (if (fboundp 'start-process) > + (if (and Man-async (fboundp 'start-process)) > (set-process-sentinel > - (start-process manual-program buffer > + (start-process manual-program (if (eq Man-async 'delayed) buffer procbuffer) > (if (memq system-type '(cygwin windows-nt)) > shell-file-name > "sh") > @@ -969,7 +1016,7 @@ (defun Man-getpage-in-background (topic) > (format (Man-build-man-command) man-args)) > 'Man-bgproc-sentinel) > (let ((exit-status > - (call-process shell-file-name nil (list buffer nil) nil > + (call-process shell-file-name nil (list procbuffer nil) nil > shell-command-switch > (format (Man-build-man-command) man-args))) > (msg "")) > @@ -980,7 +1027,7 @@ (defun Man-getpage-in-background (topic) > (format "exited abnormally with code %d" > exit-status))) > (setq msg exit-status)) > - (Man-bgproc-sentinel bufname msg))))) > + (Man-bgproc-sentinel procbufname msg))))) > buffer)) > > (defun Man-notify-when-ready (man-buffer) > @@ -1216,16 +1263,18 @@ (defun Man-bgproc-sentinel (process msg) > synchronously, PROCESS is the name of the buffer where the manpage > command is run. Second argument MSG is the exit message of the > manpage command." > - (let ((Man-buffer (if (stringp process) (get-buffer process) > - (process-buffer process))) > - (delete-buff nil) > - (err-mess nil)) > + (let* ((Man-procbuffer (if (stringp process) (get-buffer process) > + (process-buffer process))) > + (Man-buffer (get-buffer (replace-regexp-in-string > + "\\` " "" (buffer-name Man-procbuffer)))) > + (delete-buff nil) > + (err-mess nil)) > > (if (null (buffer-name Man-buffer)) ;; deleted buffer > (or (stringp process) > (set-process-buffer process nil)) > > - (with-current-buffer Man-buffer > + (with-current-buffer Man-procbuffer > (let ((case-fold-search nil)) > (goto-char (point-min)) > (cond ((or (looking-at "No \\(manual \\)*entry for") > @@ -1261,11 +1310,17 @@ (defun Man-bgproc-sentinel (process msg) > (Man-fontify-manpage) > (Man-cleanup-manpage)) > > + (unless (eq Man-async 'delayed) > + (copy-to-buffer Man-buffer (point-min) (point-max)))))) > + > + (unless delete-buff > + (with-current-buffer (if (eq Man-async 'delayed) Man-procbuffer Man-buffer) > (run-hooks 'Man-cooked-hook) > (Man-mode) > > @@ -1279,11 +1342,13 @@ (defun Man-bgproc-sentinel (process msg) > ;; Man-notify-when-ready because it may switch buffers. > > (if (not delete-buff) > - (Man-notify-when-ready Man-buffer)) > + (when (or (eq Man-async 'delayed) > + (memq Man-notify-method '(polite quiet meek))) > + (Man-notify-when-ready Man-buffer))) > > (if err-mess > (error "%s" err-mess)) > - )))) > + ))) > > (defun Man-page-from-arguments (args) > ;; Skip arguments and only print the page name. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Juri Linkov , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.15978416321258 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:54:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 12:53:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38521 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8NbE-0000KD-LF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:53:52 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-f53.google.com ([209.85.210.53]:42854) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Nb9-0000Jw-2A for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:53:51 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-f53.google.com with SMTP id v21so18913048otj.9 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:53:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qYHWGKlRHpDwqwGeQqHyBrlfGuckplyeTx0bP4Ohh1U=; b=bkpt4aQdKJTFSkA4llwgDyHmLj5JmkbegtkH1a0KG2j90NACtJJ6g+PneRujTKsJu2 r02KYCV5ZCtmIZHMjsBGiDU6lz5jJoXm2IjVls+7MdxCZA5jtXUZaw78kppAVOxvXe86 cXoKnhnaFXEt+JmZS/SazDMv/byK/KfVHtweY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qYHWGKlRHpDwqwGeQqHyBrlfGuckplyeTx0bP4Ohh1U=; b=Uzjaz3anHX30v3NCXlT33BoHHxaslnjAveyqbxozSX8dRh5ul7hHjbjv+4ShJZekaS DlsOhGzmRd0bxp/E/wqTO/sJQl1yDz3krfyUSqQddfnbiG3iff9S0nDXYSlAU9APGSnO h/bmALydiU0asCdis5NOyYz8QtQ1x9K4q4yxgRCf/10wnxKIJCwUqR2AFuo3KknJ4v5a HlmdpldkfWEHExK3nWCBopdA/t3F2GVj1Am42NCfsqEXhM8bfVTGLGFHkzr2Q6KtDnZK pma3ybr0M3E/nbP4LNDOmjn9ZpuSc8OBNnOs9thzNXGz46LNmE3diwuoKzZFqnN4e7xP WNiw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53388XIhrqxnSaoZeHHRA4n8rWEEWUFqxZbubkdcnxBH25WosJ0+ iF3ZBgvrFKqa3KMJr0xV5wdRQ5FEDHzSN9AKEVNBP3jRRHY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyl33/yGKA4QFub9bQgB3XHzyqPyyqCrbUFC9nC2Nk+uoRBo85rG/E9WIThv44y6SxU+t9XCS58BqS7GlAhybw= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6c54:: with SMTP id g20mr18774575otq.120.1597841621161; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:53:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> In-Reply-To: From: Reuben Thomas Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:53:29 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003cb0e105ad3a7eb5" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000003cb0e105ad3a7eb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 13:49, Stefan Kangas wrote: > > This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. I'm not sure > it's worth the added complexity. Any other opinions? > I re-read this bug, and I agree: as I said before, I don't think it's worth the extra complexity. --0000000000003cb0e105ad3a7eb5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 13:49, Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:

This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously.=C2=A0 I'm no= t sure
it's worth the added complexity.=C2=A0 Any other opinions?

I re-read this bug, and I agree= : as I said before, I don't think it's worth the extra complexity.<= /div>
--0000000000003cb0e105ad3a7eb5-- From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Juri Linkov , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784249911117 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 13:08:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38537 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8NpC-0002tF-Pj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:08:19 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44722) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Np9-0002t0-6q for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:08:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Z3bCz4sZdL4yLElSduaJ4T4OKoRgKmJJXJhBRqyhPh0=; b=Y5/0UMGSK3GdHV0aczn7ml95TD GLZhBvGTNyup8VQAWuTOG28phIw309EucUSQ4IzhurjZbphTf1RK+k5Z9xJMKkqKlP2XcqVHznkRJ YD2NTy2crerKjQ0I4JRd/y0QdlMsmiOeGFI0St3CBTeQK2T8mn5qE19gB3mF8xSVaQCY=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Nox-0004s2-0e; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:08:08 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEW0HUPFCzmNgnyo opgMBwtgKTX///8njmYMAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+QIEw0HITgtVU4AAAGXSURBVDjL bZNBb8MgDIWNCneiNvcVtHsXtjuVzJ2s8P//ymwIK7QgNWnz1e/ZDwJiGZd1dcGioaz2B2M7oOmy PMEHWAZvUlct9AxsmthpAm7n71+nJ+Bqf9CJKfh8uOsMcLNTwIPMpL5OBPS0Xedu5/mAsEwn30Bz JPlYMccS5n+6+LIezhlOeAK2nA8QMmaA5Be1Sq5oINAHEt0VxAtXNCm/Isoio3wF9jAPCiEwgDxI YU7oF0FiUafe3IMssHSBlj1MBZgxRpUwAmHbmWOkdoUMWsDh8ahAK7oE6dcUhgqM7CuSLz13IERV Wq4VndQ95zJeoNCHOXzLj7KXNRJzpFtmkEHx3WbbPCJ1tWshfZEyaJpHZBWag74tFwLWbLVir3Ek DHupsG1rA6wUSqCuKP8B0E96n1LQvF0d8KAw85DkkXqA/NAn7qCaN3AnaaqgwyDUW4WgOULpbuhK IcdHkeShojyjqjb5E2TeVZo8QyzANnMABE8nB1ffwFbmoMMRAwvqvUlt46H2OvUVL6fdmObx+hpU 8Af0JdAhoG7U/wAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMC0wOC0xOVQxMzowNzozMyswMDowMCKe NVUAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjAtMDgtMTlUMTM6MDc6MzMrMDA6MDBTw43pAAAAAElF TkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: M-A-R-R-S's _Pump Up The Volume_: "Anitina" Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:08:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:49:39 +0000") Message-ID: <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. Hm... but `M-x man' does run asynchronously now? At least it does when I try it. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. Hm... but `M-x man' does run asynchronously now? At least it does when I try it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Reuben Thomas Cc: Juri Linkov , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784252211153 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 13:08:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Npa-0002tp-39 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:08:42 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f174.google.com ([209.85.219.174]:41205) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8NpY-0002tc-Cy for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:08:40 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f174.google.com with SMTP id s195so13287510ybc.8 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:08:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oWCTCn9osCOOyp9+U+7pBpnl3rYx0hnTJp8FI6PQUyE=; b=a/3eLA46ubFYK3gpq5zA50+kGiDFzM5KHqmhma+Rb4uwbewyQk/DA61mZmtR42j+DR MNwvdjt6Ynu852CT5QBzLyJwZPt9YjdSVmT8CwcIIejV9rYdELp1zUvIhZiXzv2Z5dLr LumdrEBMPzokzPP7GFj8VJSWOnLwYwxDTaLPs/t/tQQi5lqX12mUTJVrJ7PAk3EAjq7U woJ3AX84moXtK048YipH0fC1BHRRqnNxMUXGXPKEqXreJTey5cTVFd//bpA0cZk2vRkd IeNnc25zMk95Y10sWBCg1hJ2Gsgh2edfsUZOZ4h8peLa9edmXwXjQPFXzm7jrxo/W+N3 d/qQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531O+HwmyhexcVIAz2cWYQawKsMbi7MbYBtSYys5sDLat5Nas1K7 X5XYfc8T8WDxB3azTO5KlXMc8ETLZkNWTjTALCw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwJ3NaxRcRbWL/MtGt1/RcDGz+vOMYxDqGGxSsMu+ZhWdtcFahcbfxxQ0B5Kq7crg8ET8BT7gjK2pWidMgQINE= X-Received: by 2002:a25:4609:: with SMTP id t9mr32470775yba.231.1597842514916; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:08:34 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:08:34 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Reuben Thomas writes: > On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 13:49, Stefan Kangas wrote: > >> >> This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. I'm not sure ^ synchronously >> it's worth the added complexity. Any other opinions? Fixed typo above. > I re-read this bug, and I agree: as I said before, I don't think it's worth > the extra complexity. Thanks. Let's see if anyone else has something to say before we close it. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:12:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Juri Linkov , Stefan Kangas , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784267611424 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:12:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 13:11:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38551 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Ns3-0002yB-NS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:11:16 -0400 Received: from mail-oi1-f180.google.com ([209.85.167.180]:37974) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Nrz-0002xt-FU for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:11:14 -0400 Received: by mail-oi1-f180.google.com with SMTP id u63so20943779oie.5 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:11:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mFT6l8IawjwzBMUB7HQ33laz1ZgvgIsSa1BePDVqj4I=; b=r8mCotrQ8erOeC8ZMmVkG3Gyg2t6jBa+Hip4vmzSqRWkcTQi98oN3jbzJfvwk0h+/k EkEx+6Qq/xHaKb4Cnm4oh7zdMCYaqvkE57MgZ8SURqS87kdXWy9FKUpblQ55rlWoPCwM fvUxVConBUt4wLlEDSuczQK9tjvVO3MQI/z6w= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mFT6l8IawjwzBMUB7HQ33laz1ZgvgIsSa1BePDVqj4I=; b=NomP1g1cQbbmsA8X1edu6b3VtZWBKDUuBcoNPxMmxIoRya4tYNy5D9VXpiF8Fuys9u JSkV3WRAXze5JS65Xjl88uUTb/xRUDLuLmz/M3YXJKjlu+Qc0ZR5waJ1wq6IL2cpTuVa DEZyP0AoJeXBOD/L14rBqXNToHA1ut0cZZk4aO24Q6PjyM4ontFtz3gRQ6n8ww8JKPgO w0nB4u9eIsZ0uWa8v87WeAdLuyhmfGwkCJAdfo7+BhHPZkY0kqJlwiLajUP2gHTj6bhO MtEVStEItZSOAvspoykIZyOMUS/pi5QeyEYZuHku+SqQe4Pu6sTHEcLwn40K0muhPGrV vECA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5307G99laKpr/RyvMDW+s7pIMosSpuzM/DAaqXdyDIaZUD39Hi4+ BeUMW21RmPMX9ku7xviKdK40K+NwJWH1n9OS/fCZig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwqyYhTYcBr1+yZUebcJwz8YZGsXx7GEWcHLGWrZfGr8mJi48FioRbIHZHqwvLIZ7Oki40keEKM3AMDd7Zq1s4= X-Received: by 2002:aca:490:: with SMTP id 138mr3231969oie.62.1597842665721; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:11:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> From: Reuben Thomas Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:10:54 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007f6de105ad3abcf0" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000007f6de105ad3abcf0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 14:08, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. > > Hm... but `M-x man' does run asynchronously now? At least it does when > I try it. > Good point. It would be better to run synchronously (only). -- https://rrt.sc3d.org --0000000000007f6de105ad3abcf0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 14:08, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously.

Hm...=C2=A0 but `M-x man' does run asynchronously now?=C2=A0 At least i= t does when
I try it.

Good point= . It would be better to run synchronously (only).

-- <= br>
--0000000000007f6de105ad3abcf0-- From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Juri Linkov , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784286811731 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:15:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 13:14:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38563 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8NvA-000339-BW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:14:28 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f173.google.com ([209.85.219.173]:37127) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Nv8-00032w-Q7 for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:14:27 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f173.google.com with SMTP id e14so13316628ybf.4 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:14:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GYC4kjsSUTRQs/kJot5ALM/jM/csLp+8RsVRdYtdhj4=; b=RFV1/tjMiiXwbgx/b+IKfSh3Y3BweuDsHtEZiNGgZnI2PX/KNYK5msLJY3+E3QtDWe +aIwe+6UX93KMNA1YV34NSiVVX7jb5zhhirfXTE7sBwKmXH/7TH51H1KUMICiEAzbF+2 Qb3aZeZtr28yT2ZexmgITOg/0StyBe82BHdrrdprxUPirN0MRBNXJD5PcECeNK7Qg08k zk73DYNp8zQvOwYrs3FjGRc/KYy4JgZTHtm3jVul0e9W8vZz1U7X/hX10aKfSZa6wa62 xnD6PflovSgQJHI+B8UGp1GHF+ddswj7U8q8FptMS+nakGoh2F+ICnkcq4KiF89y+vHa Eu/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531/FfZx88MECT1qTulTy+j+Z0Tf/ZHvw9706C5CUTvVOJoQEN3O kGE57SfJjo+jpq/wRMZsZbacJxTHdOhobWjAzgk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyNF9jLiJsLjkWirjjIJcgANGYSejOSDctOglJbQxigHfwhoeuegB+2K/IpnnXDIKzeeQkp8mBYjFxFhX665K8= X-Received: by 2002:a25:7007:: with SMTP id l7mr33129147ybc.85.1597842861356; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:14:20 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:14:20 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. > > Hm... but `M-x man' does run asynchronously now? At least it does when > I try it. Yes, that was a typo; I meant synchronously (without the a). Sorry about the confusion. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Reuben Thomas , Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Juri Linkov , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784348112665 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:25:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 13:24:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38570 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8O53-0003ID-9e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:24:41 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f173.google.com ([209.85.219.173]:37766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8O51-0003Hz-70 for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:24:40 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f173.google.com with SMTP id e14so13333688ybf.4 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=X90OkT2DA0gs8VFXC8XIDTX4JohlEvGZ73oQcrr88BA=; b=lV9KZbVZtdpkhd+TbyNHLpx9otwYs9V8FCHntuXqoU1mJpeejxXCpsQvdKH0CpEa6b 5y8whXrkTQo9f4EXX2E5UUf4GP/Kr6eTITBMOXTMYmjCQa+UMcVSvIS5WL2JBzcfJ4Os wBcd969AWSsJBb8Pn4KudqWvvjBQmtsz552lG0XNL/nMza/euRLIcv6S10DNpfDMzZNA Rub+st4E2efAnTMQpge2Bpw4Ls7aMGmfqam8Lq8F//1mZCxfljR7NuTFM6bQUzNJhFTM YR7/IxHh3Al5gtH9HZOq6o0Xe2umt5t9FV6YvoKewBKRPBzzLnzWYB+XFXn8V1qzIENt 6ONA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5305AmD3Gap2AOTlXyQ4e2TF5dErBFhZ9s5ibkp7/SM4VZItwmP5 2WGL++0HEpKrrgLw5GyvCJ4X+Bw1e+1dwCozdiw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTMiIYNMKSrrpvlL4yaSg7uURYsnWBTcCxIzJcHYtq9tr2M4TH6vZp1N5DE7Ubekn7mBjJXhNDTsAGyEEmhIk= X-Received: by 2002:a25:9843:: with SMTP id k3mr34264456ybo.466.1597843473689; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:24:33 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:24:33 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Reuben Thomas writes: > Good point. It would be better to run synchronously (only). Why? What is the benefit of running synchronously? It seems to me that we want more things to run asynchronously, and not the other way around. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784371413008 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 13:28:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38585 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8O8o-0003Nk-CR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:28:34 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-f50.google.com ([209.85.210.50]:40183) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8O8m-0003NX-6Q for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:28:33 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-f50.google.com with SMTP id h16so19027033oti.7 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:28:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JCrGpzQUKlLUV0xuaDB9phnjxbMUoXF7Yn/pEV2CTxs=; b=t/YRyVkOrLVcq95UVDk6jh4Yrlfu4y3kwsRJtEW/PoB64CpU1Eg7q4Gg57uf70qe2G x15cbfmZ+CTcPpk3FEdnDW4PKl3AlmjXTteY7AL/9eWR5EYgeOp2JQu57ZJKN9635ll8 0f6Buxtq8KdJs+WMZ09RlHDvNxVlinXSPYC9U= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JCrGpzQUKlLUV0xuaDB9phnjxbMUoXF7Yn/pEV2CTxs=; b=rHHPNsds/8/Txkpaj0uLE6l8esOkb+pgci+mX2hbMFVfL+Q1aGEUeF8er0XR14wAOE tCnsC8WxIHqoGHZpLiTKnVMYADIrDR6wUu74VpYy4bsQRWr+51Az67hoIYIdmbzvHU2k 34+Ov+QcbIYQpeFlR2g0I67Ww9IilW7IZjsWwB8PesLfqAopVNoMZIMLDMtK/JudZL9W 8b5k1kjFNDJrjxJjWaAmWT5j6m7eLUlcxX/3E3W/Fphy9rElxmNjOE+wLTVb1tOHeJNn 2S5Bb9dTR6xNh4s0Nv2hzaqpcTpS0KvlNya7QdWWlJ+FPdiMJq2ZfJFHsXsynw26ndc/ iQ0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5320j8CnK/5zthv0UCMI9zXlHZJP4ArNpP0KmZCFy6OWtgCTcVXD jgeqilvDQIhWUBgEg9NT971N6A2wzfcknfwPRlOdjw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz+F4epc/wqtZ9XnXGb59xdyytfHzuyWvxlb+6rPqcGBUc0ElEKH4JmLLrZMD5azAwzJ4JOZhZ0Xwn4JTIInBM= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6c54:: with SMTP id g20mr18884715otq.120.1597843706522; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:28:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Reuben Thomas Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:28:15 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000088c43805ad3afa12" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --00000000000088c43805ad3afa12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 14:24, Stefan Kangas wrote: > > It seems to me that we want more things to run asynchronously, and not > the other way around. > As I said earlier in the thread, this seems only to add complexity (for example making it hard to reuse `man` for other things, the reason I filed this issue originally) for no useful gain on modern machines (the delay when formatting even the longest man page is short). -- https://rrt.sc3d.org --00000000000088c43805ad3afa12 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 14:24, Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:

It seems to me that we want more things to run asynchronously, and not
the other way around.

=
As I said earlier in the thread, this seems only t= o add complexity (for example making it hard to reuse `man` for other thing= s, the reason I filed this issue originally) for no useful gain on modern m= achines (the delay when formatting even the longest man page is short).
=

--
--00000000000088c43805ad3afa12-- From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Reuben Thomas Cc: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784507324030 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 13:51:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38648 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8OUj-0006FW-6f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:51:13 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f180.google.com ([209.85.219.180]:39731) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8OUf-0006F1-Rq for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:51:11 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f180.google.com with SMTP id q16so13361843ybk.6 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:51:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eXFZvuiFybVD+4UlT8u9e+bKXbhXpFG8Q/jZwRc7yn4=; b=mNvIetPtCgC9TRBjfAzwxacna8IUUeuo8xBd0XCnK5PODuprKbLO7ICdqPIg5Bv9w2 +e3P77ewk4Sn993a4xbH5X2esowOS/K6P+objEpBKKdziRqwDOcrPxNz4lE37GwxFfIq P1Dhvg+AmM5++aOk4m9S3Zllw7ZaT16qpwh6dnFfYQBTHG/P3twav+Pp6Ovtk79WLr4P dwsKzqzBaKz44FX22OTFGcM2G7nq2vG0agmxo4Ja0GY/gf0kyiA8xlZXa1vSgB+sdEeQ mGkUcxFDEhiNFWWDrURaMRRXULkcGa0o9S7CiwanOrkME9Mdm/5nL8XuLiGchOeRuKnR yPGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530iDy9zqysGlmQzNyxJo1CHZj5ku8J6JjFl1Ejz1/Jfno3O7iIz 5FPTBGsLfaJo5fOOP8+LWiFPXT5VStVTmcpfqWg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyvbBcvIDPju+eoK7g8N2lODkwf1f5ZDs74hmBLq2TZSvKCieF1b2Q91b3qfrLse4jwgQTNRUpd9+2eusp749I= X-Received: by 2002:a25:b290:: with SMTP id k16mr33040417ybj.389.1597845063270; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:51:02 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:51:02 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Reuben Thomas writes: > As I said earlier in the thread, this seems only to add complexity (for > example making it hard to reuse `man` for other things, the reason I filed > this issue originally) for no useful gain on modern machines (the delay > when formatting even the longest man page is short). What if you are running this remotely using TRAMP? What if you're on a laggy network with an NFS mounted filesystem? What if your disk is failing and this command takes several seconds to complete? etc. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:53:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784512524145 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:53:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 13:52:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38654 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8OVZ-0006HN-F5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:52:05 -0400 Received: from mail-oo1-f46.google.com ([209.85.161.46]:33352) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8OVX-0006GO-71 for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:52:04 -0400 Received: by mail-oo1-f46.google.com with SMTP id g18so4898800ooa.0 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:52:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YBZYPA2m5IRFO4vLjbzEzf4qNMdJvxD7Oe9uIuWl7Ko=; b=y0htPcNa4vSXZGyqHqvyExb2Ynt2lAvKsKPywBRGCq+EbNyavBraHTc3dVo0KbXgGL 513sMLqBf+VVYSv0F08dcQvLlrgLhQeLkTYVtz5sQbiLKjtwkMkdURPlOu1/Uk9COKtA CV6a1RnIIRYQvwVkRnt6Rh3H5g95X+ClzvLiM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YBZYPA2m5IRFO4vLjbzEzf4qNMdJvxD7Oe9uIuWl7Ko=; b=MLnd0FT0+FQ4osjPv67lYhyfbCJAa7BmBG+ADOneM0uAdjH2x1p0clRBiQRd4eujrO A0uF5zcyoIhWsLc3sZQ1vd81Yu+OyAcdEVK+yhkss6KPbFXzo22a55NhvLs/YVR9HFn5 EXp9lVZGVy0GtrtpRS8/+Dj0PKYMgd7EQS/1Q6cvrmU4xsy4EyGKMFl9H3rsE+WBtViD XLoJ7J8pQqQfPxhtYmU2bYNIoLkUFqUFYUDuwIxPtgLrtSwcoRjEb3I7CVnQrCCISjIc hTo+cNz17YYALezludFnEEpd8m9lFllpVO+l3WjKRNHleI/YgEn4Ht1fa9AEp1YcIolK xHNg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532CHv6otNyVxfufQr8cNfhe57raB4HSf7/azUt1wUkFdK8yjsIF 1QHE51j/a0CiactoYXs+zxvfp5cBB5hQXwderggOog== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz4p/8i3jDKs+0QtrDyURne5tzEM1dnBD4BMurYWFnCByBUt7cTC4Pw5+9HOyDA7sLjqRidVyByU2o2GzDscOI= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:e98e:: with SMTP id s14mr18286974ood.28.1597845117383; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 06:51:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Reuben Thomas Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:51:46 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a0e4b805ad3b4e3d" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000a0e4b805ad3b4e3d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 14:51, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Reuben Thomas writes: > > > As I said earlier in the thread, this seems only to add complexity (for > > example making it hard to reuse `man` for other things, the reason I > filed > > this issue originally) for no useful gain on modern machines (the delay > > when formatting even the longest man page is short). > > What if you are running this remotely using TRAMP? What if you're on a > laggy network with an NFS mounted filesystem? What if your disk is > failing and this command takes several seconds to complete? etc. > No different from any other command that interacts with the disc and is normally run synchronously. -- https://rrt.sc3d.org --000000000000a0e4b805ad3b4e3d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 14:51, Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:
Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:

> As I said earlier in the thread, this seems only to add complexity (fo= r
> example making it hard to reuse `man` for other things, the reason I f= iled
> this issue originally) for no useful gain on modern machines (the dela= y
> when formatting even the longest man page is short).

What if you are running this remotely using TRAMP?=C2=A0 What if you're= on a
laggy network with an NFS mounted filesystem?=C2=A0 What if your disk is failing and this command takes several seconds to complete?=C2=A0 etc.
<= /blockquote>

No different from any ot= her command that interacts with the disc and is normally run synchronously.=

--
<= /div> --000000000000a0e4b805ad3b4e3d-- From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Reuben Thomas Cc: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.15978463484123 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 14:12:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40619 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8OpH-00014R-Rp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:12:28 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f173.google.com ([209.85.219.173]:35222) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8OpF-00014C-Uw for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:12:26 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f173.google.com with SMTP id y134so13417188yby.2 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:12:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uOnZkG9IR6N2t9j7uHhozeMMVeqNyKo/s5Qj8JyiaG0=; b=s5VbspkFkNOVlxL/JDNoXHmhwKc+3gxPBL3lBNE0oqUY01jTSllYC/VmI+vwiYp5nK lcQM5LBhqYPSfRnZTRYGg2CI023IeAvVnyeNF+whVw1eEs+SXbpS/MOoqo++9fcMrBp6 sSgIzPR57OtFi4KXRSrQCiMQXJpqsUSwX4DzQmEHQu6rUVtB2x8b7O1lGgE2xmr1bhGS cB8guxoBT4PDSDx/skfpZhGbdsXSOPZgC6V32C0dTS/p4YhmuNTMIDWBpjj1UIq35Mv7 zA+23KcffjCWGI5pdqWHAtcaE7bdU3Eis8H3ttd6POlkB3G69cfasWF5fgcKSlUBGMsN WfjQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530e54tsJKrYm87sCkzl070GMHN5FOYXkiDJgXlDn1tCiAW+4fQ7 wYRQra2tE3rwa63n/aUBvLqjK6exkAjgZXmoMow= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyK5x4iXsJUfZPs+t3WUTz0FSCXZ/tejsdDXv8txqLrbNJUmhBM3wHylfeHEtQaP/KMREUYkWX/qsRjo1dKvC8= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:508:: with SMTP id o8mr37280413ybp.43.1597846340466; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:12:19 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:12:19 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Reuben Thomas writes: >> What if you are running this remotely using TRAMP? What if you're on a >> laggy network with an NFS mounted filesystem? What if your disk is >> failing and this command takes several seconds to complete? etc. > > No different from any other command that interacts with the disc and is > normally run synchronously. Yes, so your entire Emacs session will block. In other words, less than satisfactory. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159784691513541 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:22:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 14:21:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40639 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8OyR-0003WL-0Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:21:55 -0400 Received: from mail-oi1-f175.google.com ([209.85.167.175]:38935) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8OyP-0003W8-BV for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:21:54 -0400 Received: by mail-oi1-f175.google.com with SMTP id a24so21129399oia.6 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:21:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3R7/tmfLlNgHA2/Jz/MXwbKyZJ1sNb9cTSJwO9kmZzo=; b=NtnCj2SjMzDxJIJoHDjRB4hlebcVKhZAlC04t0w4iSV8CThMmES7i5dIxQ1fyURLbP KNihW2dDjLkv3q7re8MV++qDNqPwrGdmgjmQosfpuskFaY1wlXdsOp/9VXhWEzJCKtx6 tH3r5jzEsrTdUKFqgkWLKwqoeYw+BR5ZXcFSo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3R7/tmfLlNgHA2/Jz/MXwbKyZJ1sNb9cTSJwO9kmZzo=; b=lwyPV1UTJKOb87lUvoVvNRXWr320tz/wGCX5eMdkfGJP7tWpQASM0moTMQ3IqirndO ZeA+VpXDOCCIldDM/Ydy9G+2pGxRA2WdzLREdZ1A4K5VPDHMVdrzpEEuMF3+TwJfd4pP fgW/ydABGa1Dk6q/1nAL/CjMEdKhMZQLA4sPNmoKtK4jpIVlXjvapQSC8EuAqk/hwY35 0x8GTAc70KHpN4AXhqg9yt3Y15jUwZ6bgZvstzdBcAOFpPQO8gvALAN3w/GJQS5ptDm3 t5JM4/wLxP3WlKZIhXdPj834NrpL6Yx5CTpA2npLYJ8sI01zEQzyCU7pNPlGhz/LbZVQ wf9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532bdnJitFrvCGdjai78/I57R3Xz3qOPxAHs/VqJWPXtVavgTktV YRJp7cKNQ+2nB8oAZ4imouorPJ5fvuy2OfEN1Ak4bA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwVNdh4QrVB0UXCiBTZ0pgLD+XlOMsuKy7CuFQh0bGDMvdHu1IuZEGcaWnAC55Y3UrKQ32djaIYXEr6zXEneIE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:490:: with SMTP id 138mr3448552oie.62.1597846907548; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:21:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Reuben Thomas Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:21:36 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000054909005ad3bb931" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --00000000000054909005ad3bb931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:12, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Reuben Thomas writes: > > >> What if you are running this remotely using TRAMP? What if you're on a > >> laggy network with an NFS mounted filesystem? What if your disk is > >> failing and this command takes several seconds to complete? etc. > > > > No different from any other command that interacts with the disc and is > > normally run synchronously. > > Yes, so your entire Emacs session will block. In other words, less than > satisfactory. > Many commands do this; I don't think there's a reason to treat man specially in this regard and complicate it. man was not written to be asynchronous because of the things you mention, but because it could take some time to format the man page. This is no longer the case. -- https://rrt.sc3d.org --00000000000054909005ad3bb931 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:12, Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:
Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:

>> What if you are running this remotely using TRAMP?=C2=A0 What if y= ou're on a
>> laggy network with an NFS mounted filesystem?=C2=A0 What if your d= isk is
>> failing and this command takes several seconds to complete?=C2=A0 = etc.
>
> No different from any other command that interacts with the disc and i= s
> normally run synchronously.

Yes, so your entire Emacs session will block.=C2=A0 In other words, less th= an
satisfactory.

Many c= ommands do this; I don't think there's a reason to treat man specia= lly in this regard and complicate it.

man was not written to be asynchronous because of the thing= s you mention, but because it could take some time to format the man page. = This is no longer the case.

--
--00000000000054909005ad3bb931-- From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Reuben Thomas Cc: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159785028527441 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:19:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 15:18:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40758 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Pqn-00078W-DF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:18:05 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f170.google.com ([209.85.219.170]:40054) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Pqk-000782-2c for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:18:04 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f170.google.com with SMTP id q3so13518032ybp.7 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:18:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e5SK+pMcPl3y/47gXfjdFRAxrrcQJ0Ti1i1TsAARQbo=; b=Xp/reIrgrZv3k5UQwonuvkiXxBsHs/kqfD/AT/fkMpsiBjZaL7pb4hyAVd3Rqi1/yZ uq9/3v/LyAy0cWQw8Mfj9m84fMdo8kOjprbQO1rf2q43amlizpsD/QaqEoq5Xh0VEZ3L ss8HsiBCC0eO6hIQ27RTijLX0tYOJdgJKrOwG4Q+3QugbDbEaq8iRk/5qHNgN6Oy+WYf u7ih4ZZlO5g5Tea0TOgT371ZNwglpjU33kwJIikeTZKY41MHGxgXzTT12otzaGTibF2R CDCQvrFqY09hWlpeyLataajfitoMkwFrIbDIwT7CROy0+ZT1N1nWFU2zBGg+wqCeP68C /rXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530KO/PyET+1HcsmTx80ecsiAcbgsDFCgzvSvXfEqCAixkoo8yke Zw2dpDlf/d4to43rqJas+2nGJ4xzh0aEiZMUjHQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwM6Gx7SY4X1SiUsVAnrA+Z/+8T1reeHMRkz6Gzco/QhM493VSmI19kwjjR8Q92AbHAlfs6d7VztVTLkYRvkLk= X-Received: by 2002:a25:4609:: with SMTP id t9mr33245369yba.231.1597850276604; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:17:56 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:17:56 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Reuben Thomas writes: >> Yes, so your entire Emacs session will block. In other words, less than >> satisfactory. > > Many commands do this; I don't think there's a reason to treat man > specially in this regard and complicate it. I have the exact opposite view: more commands should be asynchronous. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159785055027865 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 15:23:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2020 15:22:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40766 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Pv4-0007FN-5u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:22:30 -0400 Received: from mail-oo1-f50.google.com ([209.85.161.50]:37741) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8Pv1-0007F9-Qv for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:22:29 -0400 Received: by mail-oo1-f50.google.com with SMTP id p137so4959527oop.4 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:22:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mSJ/GjqRzThWVTMd3rsqPfJ4EiilyiCqCPTgP3llYBY=; b=bUAH7UcHUQZJWRcfU4p/3FeH6/pJoH/yELfrggEX1ukO16DBtmRGLtta55ywKOMyxW 7qkdG3TdzxJ3w3AlkjReHl3JLiPub+5jO233kn1IwN8sLJo93MDgk4k0SvvAdcrGO+kc VOOmqXomo/kYbl+TteG0Fg2oWYAC8kBaYrPTE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mSJ/GjqRzThWVTMd3rsqPfJ4EiilyiCqCPTgP3llYBY=; b=iX93bRZNcdzgHlfS4g9cckWKzIfcTDOUAegrkvxacuQwCdj/PVPPju6NRcM9BtKFn6 XfiBQGTRVOvWIU8nfCQCT3Dctj4xXxW03BAOE81CLBiBK4VMa+/Q2SugSXOcITigvhqM rERzrEZN2CNqSupEPHpJZ+IqaTM+IHA8etVkS27TqVNwqHthPJRTpDH0H3q0ZLUp7YYD n0z7lGS7o0SotzcFsYPejuq3j1vai19x9WqlKPKttGgWfcF+s5ciNo9LHj4MQtsMs0Mu 1MpueUsBMYKmIc1foGT4z60bOKDv7SjKZT057Vgxy4QAqv+jitqXapIgWcuF3VfQzBB3 QEdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532GKxvYoPW5QK8SEGu5MHiTgo+6wkdX098noa3Bu+P6/GtUXJF7 v1+A9tHgkbcKnPHYcTVCdI+Qd9VE/yeyivnZQDc3LA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxG15yaYXw/j38cETLpY6T6jhES900UEq1RCqOY3nZ6yjJAQu4IqlGXo+MGkGd6sFCrMvnipqDwo4lGQ11hmR4= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:4f16:: with SMTP id c22mr19024949oob.33.1597850542116; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:22:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Reuben Thomas Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:22:10 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f7aa9905ad3c91aa" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000f7aa9905ad3c91aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 16:17, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Reuben Thomas writes: > > >> Yes, so your entire Emacs session will block. In other words, less than > >> satisfactory. > > > > Many commands do this; I don't think there's a reason to treat man > > specially in this regard and complicate it. > > I have the exact opposite view: more commands should be asynchronous. > That would be great. It's tough to achieve in Emacs of course, since the underlying model of operation is synchronous. At the moment, various packages solve this problem in ad hoc ways. In some (such as man) there's no longer a need for an ad hoc solution: the extra complexity isn't worth it. In others, such as TRAMP and ispell, it's obviously fundamental. -- https://rrt.sc3d.org --000000000000f7aa9905ad3c91aa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:

>> Yes, so your entire Emacs session will block.=C2=A0 In other words= , less than
>> satisfactory.
>
> Many commands do this; I don't think there's a reason to treat= man
> specially in this regard and complicate it.

I have the exact opposite view: more commands should be asynchronous.

That would be great. It&#= 39;s tough to achieve in Emacs of course, since the underlying model of ope= ration is synchronous. At the moment, various packages solve this problem i= n ad hoc ways. In some (such as man) there's no longer a need for an ad= hoc solution: the extra complexity isn't worth it. In others, such as = TRAMP and ispell, it's obviously fundamental.
<= br>
--
--000000000000f7aa9905ad3c91aa-- From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 03:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159789437815868 (code B ref 12098); Thu, 20 Aug 2020 03:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2020 03:32:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41416 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8bJx-00047n-Sb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 23:32:58 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:47761) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k8bJt-00047T-Ni for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 23:32:56 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.102.47 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-102-47.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.102.47]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A3C7920006; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 03:32:45 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 03:37:51 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:14:20 +0000") Message-ID: <87d03mdng8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) >>> This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. >> >> Hm... but `M-x man' does run asynchronously now? At least it does when >> I try it. > > Yes, that was a typo; I meant synchronously (without the a). I think adding an option to run man synchronously will address such wishes as https://debbugs.gnu.org/40888 From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 07:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch moreinfo To: Juri Linkov Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159799476311253 (code B ref 12098); Fri, 21 Aug 2020 07:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2020 07:26:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44871 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91R4-0002vE-BG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:26:03 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f177.google.com ([209.85.219.177]:40333) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91Qt-0002uL-14 for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:25:52 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f177.google.com with SMTP id q3so552926ybp.7 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EbAqNQgHREK4UWCvaJNa6kdnK0MwQPwjv2GpX99WhCw=; b=H86hiAYR1DBHNjGRWhr0TA0NWa4oTT/WOuGOUtnzEpg46A/M+BRiuxlus9M7mc1d0q Lt4ayKs6zk34hijIcKCJk1Qy2D5eVtQaIev1lYwZMa79aMxtOS/vCKFPemWVm6ON8GbS SyFiZ7zrhLK2dmEFlooc47nuy8mT1HSmUuF0ukPvPhJL4n+MFcy0J2JXFDiggSJig50r p/RYJAzMIo/sHsPB5NQI/2jB27e4ClAK5iqHPXJEmawpiILvSSenOS/aaWu5DFkVWZHi JWEx7qk1qHP8RWQm8UxEM9XEwSo0wbNO4k3k647BaS7YC9vM4F1r3VZcbfn7aVH9DMQ/ GtJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5324OAwlL1sj8I46EPHpvm32Uc+LOOHIVs0j5rsJdVBZ0vaJGaw3 7soqEW6rF0Hcsw5PHYqxQVs6aXA8y3iDWkxGSQY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJysM5XEWdfU/mVYZVC84ld3dBWSHKwcOvN1FWxnpFFhaOoW5bxd5BWR2jDS3r6Isu1grF1729VYzPA+xvrQ9EU= X-Received: by 2002:a25:b290:: with SMTP id k16mr1918247ybj.389.1597994745566; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:45 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87d03mdng8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> <87d03mdng8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:45 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 12098 - patch moreinfo thanks Juri Linkov writes: >>>> This patch adds the possibility to run man asynchronously. >>> >>> Hm... but `M-x man' does run asynchronously now? At least it does when >>> I try it. >> >> Yes, that was a typo; I meant synchronously (without the a). > > I think adding an option to run man synchronously will address such wishes as > https://debbugs.gnu.org/40888 Unfortunately the patch here no longer applies but from taking a quick look it shouldn't be too hard to rewrite for anyone so inclined. Best regards, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 21 03:26:03 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2020 07:26:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44873 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91R5-0002vS-GT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:26:03 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f173.google.com ([209.85.219.173]:34000) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91R0-0002ug-Ss for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:25:59 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f173.google.com with SMTP id u6so565991ybf.1 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FG2mC/t2D9jrovvNVPPpK+N+5DlMLlCh1OF5MN8Rvjw=; b=VZn9PdnRQ38d/5Mfu2dnLGT8CNCwW0vvLZbvpKcfriZ0Gzmd/c7Eb+sBgTSo8ASxaD HJeNNq/2w4lHwp6CwIOLZ9krmiB0sJplAPf/u5vbl5Rxg4BEJe1k0BVUIXbRqaH1kLf4 PVrtA+EZDg5eeWR2HXz9mQWQjVjbesHSrLq4TFVvievCJCPRQFEXc9+Bx9Q4k1ErGaQ4 ylWz+s1rLsBRB2WY0cvHYLv6WrwxB3qjE6xfwi3/zEOGnqs6b6W+eEydFnmetJPs4MyJ qy54Fz+HNy4XJpkJcwOW6mB5Qb2T+pe/5NzPjT33eWLS4345pMrW/e7Os5m1vrCrHM4K dGpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532TSZ2q270NikTZ+dftIQpTM3B1HJtmLCLvnY9pfQ7cpB6umL9l GzxOLkEcMz2GFDCRkF8wlf9opUP0U5u/fO7BLxk54BGxI6Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJypQ6OojY6hR/IAiAlb3v4T0VuPdkoqk2y6ZR1XsfNVBYsxSvsTI8nlTB65+BQJj7X4+5Kq2qF5Fxyld8pGLBg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:4ed7:: with SMTP id c206mr2095792ybb.129.1597994753322; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:52 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:52 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: retitle 12098 Optionally support synchronous operation for `M-x man' thanks Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.219.173 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.219.173 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (stefankangas[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines retitle 12098 Optionally support synchronous operation for `M-x man' thanks From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 07:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: juri@jurta.org, larsi@gnus.org, 12098@debbugs.gnu.org, rrt@sc3d.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159799572421481 (code B ref 12098); Fri, 21 Aug 2020 07:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2020 07:42:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44913 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91ga-0005aP-8w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:42:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k91gY-0005Zu-EK for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:42:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55984) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k91gS-000879-Kb; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:41:56 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1388 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k91gR-0000Nk-Ta; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:41:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 10:41:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83h7swbg3l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:45 -0700) References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> <87d03mdng8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:45 -0700 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Reuben Thomas , > 12098@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I think adding an option to run man synchronously will address such wishes as > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/40888 > > Unfortunately the patch here no longer applies but from taking a quick > look it shouldn't be too hard to rewrite for anyone so inclined. Btw, while assessing the speed of running a 'man' command synchronously, please be sure to do that with a man page that doesn't have its formatted counterpart stored in man/catN. Most implementations of 'man' will store the formatted pages there, and use them afterwards, thus avoiding the more expensive formatting command. Displaying a pre-formatted man page is almost instantaneous, but formatting a large and non-trivial page might be slower. (The above doesn't mean to imply I object to the proposed change.) From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Juri Linkov , Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.159800293017079 (code B ref 12098); Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:43:02 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2020 09:42:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45049 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k93Yo-0004RP-Eb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 05:42:10 -0400 Received: from mail-oi1-f177.google.com ([209.85.167.177]:46194) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k93Ym-0004RA-VS for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 05:42:10 -0400 Received: by mail-oi1-f177.google.com with SMTP id v13so1004744oiv.13 for <12098@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:42:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rxTum2H2R9yDmBbyFaZT9tQ3gCGZv+aoIVePt1C/bMc=; b=Kr5P7EQBFPdXliPJXym/1vT0CzLERfG89Ip+O1lzka3kFKQlh3S1C07ZdOK/SfqIWS vZPM5/b8qBcCJvsP07exuBwGwbOxzaXpqyKTwp4ZS9/lzcOslrhsECkWH0ErAkt3TbUx dnCPhlVCx7P9LHXtUaaRKg5tOXSmkxXRWPSh8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rxTum2H2R9yDmBbyFaZT9tQ3gCGZv+aoIVePt1C/bMc=; b=jLNXm7pBPyRPv79AQhKa4MZHR2Agjnk4XsJbgLWyXFml2GYU4jWqKBb5rk0mBnkGgo 9NIcdU/n8N9pL6wXMkIXpyKg/0OTX2tOgyhbEvt/mlbFCKglUydUrVVnMasdY3l6rpK6 UJAK/GgX8vuz08glyg+8NKGtouTIUzU1+zRoYqtWn44qEmHInNkFiphBM6gO8njajQH+ 2IRAye9DhgzsfV3gAH5U6kwAw8dIfc/hoQ0B+T+g77Qb7OZH6r7lAOG/UIKrByZQ8356 +0gSsHOci4YgvwT0RYioMh87Z8GHJh2qapgXWPtRcZoc/Ns14+t22PmcMuZy/ZrcK6DC FubA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303FMzG2WLU6HRyctZb3NOWlPyD4ETP//t5QQCP8e87YKSEYY8/ Xo0ztZGoBt7qTNnAp6O4ZkQ/ibJoKLIuoDkNrXsiSw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw7IQ9US+frypfAvj4Ubqy1f+H2WAv/vYwhjIDRnP/jLNcGTu5faYAfPsN323ZB/CT60/ajyz64/DYa/snovdo= X-Received: by 2002:aca:d595:: with SMTP id m143mr1131108oig.11.1598002923085; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 02:42:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> <87d03mdng8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83h7swbg3l.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83h7swbg3l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Reuben Thomas Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 10:41:52 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000094c04005ad600cf6" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --00000000000094c04005ad600cf6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, 21 Aug 2020 at 08:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Stefan Kangas > > Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:45 -0700 > > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Reuben Thomas , > > 12098@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > I think adding an option to run man synchronously will address such > wishes as > > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/40888 > > > > Unfortunately the patch here no longer applies but from taking a quick > > look it shouldn't be too hard to rewrite for anyone so inclined. > > Btw, while assessing the speed of running a 'man' command > synchronously, please be sure to do that with a man page that doesn't > have its formatted counterpart stored in man/catN. Most > implementations of 'man' will store the formatted pages there, and use > them afterwards, thus avoiding the more expensive formatting command. > Displaying a pre-formatted man page is almost instantaneous, but > formatting a large and non-trivial page might be slower. > The times quoted earlier in the thread (specifically, 2s for bash(1)) does not sound like there was a cached version involved, as that's much too slow! -- https://rrt.sc3d.org --00000000000094c04005ad600cf6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, 21 Aug 2020 at 08:41, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 00:25:45 -0700
> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>, Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org>,
>=C2=A0 12098= @debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > I think adding an option to run man synchronously will address su= ch wishes as
> > https://debbugs.gnu.org/40888
>
> Unfortunately the patch here no longer applies but from taking a quick=
> look it shouldn't be too hard to rewrite for anyone so inclined.
Btw, while assessing the speed of running a 'man' command
synchronously, please be sure to do that with a man page that doesn't have its formatted counterpart stored in man/catN.=C2=A0 Most
implementations of 'man' will store the formatted pages there, and = use
them afterwards, thus avoiding the more expensive formatting command.
Displaying a pre-formatted man page is almost instantaneous, but
formatting a large and non-trivial page might be slower.
The times quoted earlier in the th= read (specifically, 2s for bash(1)) does not sound like there was a cached = version involved, as that's much too slow!

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--00000000000094c04005ad600cf6-- From unknown Sun Sep 07 01:27:56 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12098: How to trap errors in man? Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 06:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12098 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Juri Linkov , 12098@debbugs.gnu.org, Reuben Thomas Received: via spool by 12098-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12098.160265554625120 (code B ref 12098); Wed, 14 Oct 2020 06:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 12098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2020 06:05:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49826 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSZuz-0006X3-QD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 02:05:46 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55318) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSZux-0006Wn-5l for 12098@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 02:05:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8RVHEuHOeDdxo1i0RzQCslCvpIaHjpmqPXVNI3REq1o=; b=mjOMqsV7v91uyNi50RZgQ3w/np /+K+i9MerSwt2Rp/WPViNCPWfDnNTG5N/BC7RG7SIZuaKiguZJmAIVMQpBl41v8puZNYLd3EOwsJO +G5UYBkt/wKHBRYvLdDez2qISL5yyGzPhlfgMmXcxQjLnq9Ioi6GM5kK6G6mKWhkmFeg=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kSZun-0007n3-0P; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 08:05:35 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87pq7b5uvr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87txwnxbbx.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mu2q4wcu.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Efterklang's _Tripper_: "Chapter 6" Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 08:05:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:24:33 +0000") Message-ID: <87h7qx2vh0.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > It seems to me that we want more things to run asynchronously, and not > the other way around. I agree, and I think adding an option to make M-x man be synchronous again would be counter-productive, so I'm closing this bug report. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > It seems to me that we want more things to run asynchronously, and not > the other way around. I agree, and I think adding an option to make M-x man be synchronous again would be counter-productive, so I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 14 02:05:48 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2020 06:05:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49829 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSZv2-0006XL-3l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 02:05:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55336) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kSZv0-0006Ws-To for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 02:05:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KrH2eVLsd9b+Jv2Mhu28UfZXuKO4yl0d54yzzyrk2Vo=; b=OvqidFzUh0tl/StfpW9VAG+XTY Ghm/vLaCQF1eQmglY8QSbufCdS5V7nzbhaKae8fIT5cDFjKVYe5OGLPT5GkWHeF27nxGaCJBf4ff0 hQLtQ73uprA0DOadaTozaI1UM3c58zLVCZ72D084SzC7AXWU/jKvSKJhgCzHE5HiYClg=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kSZut-0007nF-5g for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 08:05:41 +0200 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 08:05:38 +0200 Message-Id: <87ft6h2vgt.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #12098 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 12098 wontfix close 12098 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 12098 wontfix close 12098 quit