From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 28 11:07:40 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2012 15:07:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46691 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sv8cF-0005Io-M9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:07:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49310) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sv8cB-0005Ie-1S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:07:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sv8VL-0005uH-6H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:00:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:39745) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sv8VL-0005uD-3D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:00:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34984) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sv8VJ-0001Xz-VZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:00:31 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sv8VI-0005tv-Rg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:00:29 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:46247) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sv8VI-0005tm-KV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:00:28 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q6SF0QYJ010286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 15:00:27 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q6SF0Qoq024302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 15:00:26 GMT Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q6SF0Prs023472 for ; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 10:00:26 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.164.157) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 28 Jul 2012 08:00:25 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.1; doc out of date, unclear wrt *-selected-* and save-window-excursion Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 08:00:19 -0700 Message-ID: <24E7DF75481D4ABB9FB5939A3E6D5854@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac1s0bRfaAeam5FVR8WqaiU5zyGtpA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) You closed bug #7728, where the following doc problem was reported, without taking care of it. Anyway, it makes sense for this problem to constitute a separate bug report from the report of a crash. >From bug #7728: > > > > `save-window-excursion' is the macro never to use. It should be > > > > used exclusively for debugging and prototyping. Application > > > > programmers who prefer to work with multiple frames themselves > > > > should know best and avoid `save-window-excursion' like the > > > > plague. At least in "released" code. Anything else is > > > > masochism. > > > > > > I wonder how that particular plague escaped the attention of > > > Richard et al for 35 years? It's a wonder that it was ever > > > documented, except perhaps as a mortal danger. > > > > easy: they only use a single frame, and in that setting it works > > fine and makes perfect sense. But it doesn't extend well to > > situations with multiple frames. > > I won't argue against that. I'm not knowledgable about it. > > If you are sure of what you say, then I suggest that you update the > doc that tells users how to use `save-window-excursion', including > together with `save-excursion'. `save-window-excursion' is all > through the Elisp manual, and `with-selected-frame' is not mentioned > even once! > > The new doc should not just cover the case where you switch windows in > the same frame or you switch frames, but the more general case where > you do not know whether some other window and frame will be selected > by the wrapped code. > > IOW, if you replace or add to the doc about using > `save-window-excursion', then do so in a way that is just as general. > > See also the multiple caveats in the doc about > `save-window-excursion', to see whether they too need to be updated to > also mention `with-selected-frame' or `with-selected-window'. > > It would be very helpful if in the doc you compared and contrasted the > proper use of `save-selected-window', `with-selected-window', > `with-selected-frame, and `save-window-excursion', pointing out when > to use which, what their differences are, gotchas, etc. That's not > clear, IMO. That was back in January 2011. A year and a half and one major release later, the doc situation is still the same. `with-selected-window' and `with-selected-frame' are hardly mentioned in the Elisp manual. On the other hand, `save-window-excursion' - "the macro never to use" - is all over the manual, along with various guidelines for its use. Please fix the doc in accordance with your informed, up-to-date understanding of what the differences, relative advantages, dangers, etc. are. Please compare and contrast, in usage terms useful to an Elisp programmer. In sum, please correct the doc and clear this up. In GNU Emacs 24.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-06-10 on MARVIN Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --cflags -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 16 19:40:17 2012 Received: (at 12075) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2012 23:40:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TDORk-0005a3-E6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:40:17 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:18575) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TDORi-0005Zw-M3 for 12075@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:40:15 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q8GNd1iZ020992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <12075@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 23:39:02 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q8GNd0pf017222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <12075@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 23:39:00 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q8GNd0tP001834 for <12075@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:39:00 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.170.142) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:38:59 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: <12075@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <24E7DF75481D4ABB9FB5939A3E6D5854@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#12075: 24.1; doc out of date, unclear wrt *-selected-* and save-window-excursion Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:38:49 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <24E7DF75481D4ABB9FB5939A3E6D5854@us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: Ac1s0bRfaAeam5FVR8WqaiU5zyGtpAnkrNpw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -7.4 (-------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12075 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -7.4 (-------) ping From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 01 03:42:26 2021 Received: (at 12075) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2021 07:42:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35647 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lnz2f-00058T-V9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 03:42:26 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40710) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lnz2c-00058D-VR for 12075@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 03:42:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=IAScEwe8hHQ8E+5IGEn3Qy3WPAWBFASvsfytQye/WzY=; b=S+V2S6EI7Hmrmj7jDfkFPEttj8 Rtzu+grkCYi3F/Ns+U3SZux8tEn8z0VmbSSi/V0lffjxatCrJ54rPEKl3E5gbkuDG3LvIlYEcY22p wZeMEG/HNpLYusEH17LP2I1qPR8MuZCkLT3hOwXGLIVNJBFtczpD/uOhMdYd0TMPJUzQ=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lnz2U-0005Ep-I0; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:42:16 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#12075: 24.1; doc out of date, unclear wrt *-selected-* and save-window-excursion References: <24E7DF75481D4ABB9FB5939A3E6D5854@us.oracle.com> X-Now-Playing: Gil Scott-Heron's _We're New Here (a Reimagining by Makaya McCraven)_: "I'm New Here" Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:42:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <24E7DF75481D4ABB9FB5939A3E6D5854@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 28 Jul 2012 08:00:19 -0700") Message-ID: <87lf7uc9pl.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Drew Adams" writes: > `with-selected-window' and `with-selected-frame' are hardly mentioned in > the Elisp manual. The former seems well-documented in Emacs 28, but the latter wasn't mentioned at all, so I've fixed that now. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 12075 Cc: 12075@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) "Drew Adams" writes: > `with-selected-window' and `with-selected-frame' are hardly mentioned in > the Elisp manual. The former seems well-documented in Emacs 28, but the latter wasn't mentioned at all, so I've fixed that now. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 01 03:42:38 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jun 2021 07:42:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lnz2s-00058s-5W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 03:42:38 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lnz2p-00058f-Dh for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 03:42:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=F5jaaaz5VJ6A4+m7PBhN8f+JfhzwO5vzDM8wmrNbDYA=; b=Yq6UCvY8WJX3ATmETXTdl6k5AS CbCChG9Pqb5hitHlGMs2z7I3gz4X8Prv+SEwVNDYReZYJuleWtvghIGgbDIutj2Kr3uAvqHK6yMfl ApOvWsl2DxKYW5SEeo5SpDrRVlaO2Aao6poo+eLWQrBfuLqe1h+5s7Sg+sGqFBEIbaDs=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lnz2h-0005Ey-W4 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:42:29 +0200 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:42:27 +0200 Message-Id: <87k0nec9p8.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #12075 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 12075 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) close 12075 28.1 quit From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:14 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 11:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator