From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:41:41 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12068: 24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init Resent-From: Dave Abrahams Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 12068 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 12068@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.1343398667475 (code B ref -1); Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:18:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2012 14:17:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44137 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SulMO-00007Z-SE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:17:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54462) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SulMJ-00007Q-UO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:17:43 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SulFW-0003nb-J3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:43 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:34074) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SulFW-0003nW-FZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45912) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SulFO-0000sK-QR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:38 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SulFF-0003kC-CZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:30 -0400 Received: from mail-vb0-f41.google.com ([209.85.212.41]:62258) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SulFF-0003jx-5E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:21 -0400 Received: by vbkv13 with SMTP id v13so3148579vbk.0 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 07:10:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=hIi6bM40tLoQNfKAGT7Nf+EtjhLeh/6IQC51Nnjk6b8=; b=TtzGzwxVHX6zTW76Cl539mr/dZy5qT1xm4Wp5qugB5S+SvzAz/NCjTrSIS5tDDv4u0 YRsJ70tWL0YIrueZ6IQtCFIFIgSuGO76v0HQOZm2FbjpNqS6D3llNFV3szDLgBO0yiAT MmK/t4Hyk8ndR4yCK1JKyoLVSJqqhP6/DxXBUr8ZCk7sbiv0UWlX3hktWD22KZEPYZw/ zlJkAFiBlbcK5zVsN71n8WuXqFBBHHrd199q7Nj7KBxJfyreQ392V4vlNSdGp9JSfm1V 5DjdHmxmt3mRbeg0FLJMUPzGMiTnBuNKqvHuVpLNEJkt8i9g3mfdDXczrESGbkwZOmet S4bw== Received: by 10.52.90.130 with SMTP id bw2mr2145885vdb.131.1343398219768; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cz2sm2015078vdb.3.2012.07.27.07.10.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 27 Jul 2012 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3ADE65D1D43E; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:18 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn6oLGqW8v2dKTx07DQnH20NOd5gPFuNXYu5qToFc5QS+AYakZxzd+OwOfhFN716r6CeOyW X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) If you happen to customize debug-on-error to nil and save it, and then something goes wrong at startup, running emacs with --debug-init has no apparent effect and you're stuck (at least, once the customizations have been read in). If debug-on-error is going to be allowed to be customized, its customization should be overridden during init so that --debug-init can take effect. In GNU Emacs 24.1.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0, Carbon Version 1.6.0 AppKit 1138.47) of 2012-06-27 on pluto.luannocracy.com Windowing system distributor `Apple Inc.', version 10.7.4 Configured using: `configure '--prefix=/opt/local' '--without-x' '--without-dbus' '--without-gconf' '--without-libotf' '--without-m17n-flt' '--without-gpm' '--infodir' '/opt/local/share/info/emacs24-macport' '--with-mac' '--enable-mac-app=/opt/local/var/macports/build/_Users_dave_Public_MacPorts_Portfiles_editors_emacs24-macport/emacs24-macport/work/destroot/Applications/MacPorts' 'CC=/usr/bin/clang' 'CFLAGS=-pipe -O2 -arch x86_64' 'LDFLAGS=-L/opt/local/lib -Wl,-no_pie -arch x86_64' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/local/include'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: nil value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: iso-latin-1-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: pretty-control-l-mode: t Info-breadcrumbs-in-mode-line-mode: t workgroups-mode: t me-minor-mode: t show-paren-mode: t server-mode: t ido-everywhere: t global-ede-mode: t global-auto-revert-mode: t display-time-mode: t delete-selection-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mac-mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: M-x e m a c s - b u C-a r e p Recent messages: Loading /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/startup/99-sugar.el (source)... Reset: Workgroups Switched: ( -<{ 0: Gnus }>- | 1: zi | 2: clang | 3: training ) Loaded: ~/.emacs.d/workgroups Per-window-point mode enabled requested feature color-theme not available Loading /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/startup/99-sugar.el (source)...done Loading /Users/dave/.emacs.d/.session...done For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. 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/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg-parse hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg-parse /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg-gpg hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg-gpg /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg-def hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg-def Features: (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message idna format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils company-autoloads weblogger-autoloads xml-rpc-autoloads maxframe session per-window-point page-ext disp-table pp-c-l ws-trim ffap info+ fit-frame strings misc-fns thingatpt+ osx-plist xml dot-passwd-el .loaddefs xcscope workgroups php-mode add-log etags cc-langs org-install gnus-load mo-git-blame eproject-extras ibuf-macs ibuf-ext ibuffer iswitchb eproject ring esh-var esh-io esh-cmd esh-ext esh-proc esh-arg eldoc esh-groups eshell esh-module esh-mode esh-util edg cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs yasnippet dropdown-list derived edmacro kmacro initsplit warnings advice advice-preload cus-edit find-func diminish cmake-mode thingatpt el-get el-get-autoloads el-get-list-packages el-get-notify help-mode view el-get-dependencies el-get-build el-get-status pp el-get-recipes el-get-byte-compile el-get-methods el-get-fossil el-get-svn el-get-pacman el-get-github-zip el-get-github-tar el-get-http-zip el-get-http-tar el-get-hg el-get-git-svn el-get-fink el-get-emacswiki el-get-http el-get-emacsmirror el-get-github el-get-git el-get-elpa package tabulated-list el-get-darcs el-get-cvs el-get-bzr el-get-brew el-get-builtin el-get-apt-get el-get-custom el-get-core autoload help-fns cl dired-x dired regexp-opt easy-mmode jka-compr info ede/linux ede/emacs ede/cpp-root paren server ido ede/speedbar ede/files ede ede/base ede/auto ede/source eieio-base eieio-speedbar speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe easymenu assoc eieio-custom wid-edit eieio byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cconv macroexp cedet autorevert time delsel cus-start cus-load elhome time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel mac-win tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote mac multi-tty make-network-process emacs) -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing Software Development Training http://www.boostpro.com Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers C++ Boost From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:41:41 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12068: 24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12068 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dave Abrahams Cc: 12068@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12068-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12068.13439498717065 (code B ref 12068); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:25:02 +0000 Received: (at 12068) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2012 23:24:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57685 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4ko-0001pt-US for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:24:31 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:50866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4km-0001pm-FF for 12068@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:24:29 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4dS-0005tJ-5V; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:16:54 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: X-Spook: codes domestic disruption PET counter terrorism Bruxelles X-Ran: D0Bkc8\e~$E\0&@gVW=!:bYd:y)6a=Qg|~b<9rHK@A|`ra$KggD3y'i X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:16:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:18 -0400") Message-ID: <4qr4rox4t5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Dave Abrahams wrote: > If you happen to customize debug-on-error to nil and save it, and then > something goes wrong at startup, running emacs with --debug-init has no > apparent effect and you're stuck (at least, once the customizations have > been read in). I cannot reproduce this, and there is code in startup.el to handle this. I tried: cat ~/.emacs (error "foo") (custom-set-variables ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom. ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. '(debug-on-error nil)) (custom-set-faces ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom. ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. ) If I use: emacs --debug-init, I end up in the debugger's backtrace buffer. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 02 19:25:38 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2012 23:25:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57689 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4lu-0001rd-GF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:25:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:50902) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4ls-0001rX-SE for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:25:37 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4eZ-0005yR-Tk for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:18:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:18:03 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 12068 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) tag 12068 moreinfo unreproducible From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:41:41 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12068: 24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:37:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12068 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: unreproducible moreinfo To: Dave Abrahams Cc: 12068@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12068-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12068.134395058311382 (code B ref 12068); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:37:01 +0000 Received: (at 12068) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2012 23:36:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57709 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4wJ-0002xW-EX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:36:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:51040) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4wH-0002xP-Kg for 12068@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:36:22 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4oy-0006Yb-2v; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:28:48 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <4qr4rox4t5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: e-bomb HAMASMOIS Dick Cheney Blowfish Baranyi keyhole X-Ran: cXHqn]P[lW3NdZRZ_-m.q.5HLVt:>~<'m#2:|G23n (Glenn Morris's message of "Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:16:54 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Maybe you mean, put the error after the customization section. The custom block does get put at the end of .emacs when first created. An equivalent scenario would be: cat ~/.emacs (setq debug-on-error nil) (error "foo") There's no good solution to that other than "don't do that then". Except maybe have a really-debug-on-error variable that overrides debug-on-error and is only settable by --debug-init. But it seems like pointless complexity to me. I assume debug-on-error is customizable for people who want to set it non-nil. I can't imagine many will customize it to nil. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 02 19:36:41 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2012 23:36:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57712 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4wa-0002y0-Ok for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:36:40 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:51043) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4wZ-0002xu-EX for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:36:39 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx4pG-0006ZD-Id for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:29:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:29:06 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 12068 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) tag 12068 = wontfix From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:41:41 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12068: 24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init Resent-From: Dave Abrahams Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 03:04:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12068 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Glenn Morris Cc: 12068@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12068-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12068.13439630273435 (code B ref 12068); Fri, 03 Aug 2012 03:04:01 +0000 Received: (at 12068) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Aug 2012 03:03:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57875 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx8B0-0000tM-Ro for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:03:47 -0400 Received: from mail-vb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.212.44]:54220) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sx8Ax-0000tC-EY for 12068@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:03:44 -0400 Received: by vbbez10 with SMTP id ez10so280959vbb.3 for <12068@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:56:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=mYN4V+yFr7r9EiD/6HzqfR/ODwU7biOoKJdwSCGcPDA=; b=psuXrbgmC/+QEFQUKgZ5rHBhbmZCQpeMppNVrECuWyY7Ko07eAisQ8/btnYJNrhbfr NzjBkP8MPGYzPEYsqTtmWp17/cOIeswV3GvJFywKV03ggUCdlptx20HIFSnrKSyZr2+e UDbj9aGshed3szXLscON179ghSi0qTywaUdd5/HnFqArl6xhD3LnM2Qt/BGug0gAEkzU dgfE/0hGcZ/k7llCviwczj7hYzFgQ7j7BjHQlx3JEruIv+2eZB9MfLWbAoCpkNhmzahY HuzMLQQfZlPUEgY82w7747odJ2T3VMn0Qz0jvaEmdXJlT9S5h5G88XxGPLgWu9VNefyA wajQ== Received: by 10.58.68.163 with SMTP id x3mr133971vet.41.1343962569458; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.local (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l12sm7655469vdh.8.2012.08.02.19.56.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id A77215D9BE80; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 22:56:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams References: <4qr4rox4t5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 22:56:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:28:47 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmU8XGl898ztlrnNjeq70HGrHKduiKH3w7kmSrdDqkuMkH3lol4s5DVMbXM9r1xWpBDjg2J X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) on Thu Aug 02 2012, Glenn Morris wrote: > Maybe you mean, put the error after the customization section. Yes. > The custom block does get put at the end of .emacs when first created. Yes, but once you get into more sophisticated configurations, it's common to want to do things at init time after the customizations are known. > An equivalent scenario would be: > > cat ~/.emacs > > (setq debug-on-error nil) > (error "foo") > > There's no good solution to that other than "don't do that then".=20 Of course there's a good solution to that... > Except maybe have a really-debug-on-error variable that overrides > debug-on-error and is only settable by --debug-init.=20 There you go. Another possibility is for whatever deals with errors to check whether we're in initialization, and if so, consult argv for the presence of "--debug-init" and let that override debug-on-error. Being able to reliably debug initialization is really crucial, because if your init gets messed up, you really can't do anything else. > But it seems like pointless complexity to me. I assume debug-on-error > is customizable for people who want to set it non-nil. I can't imagine > many will customize it to nil. What do you think people will do when they've set it to non-nil and then they get annoyed that they're always dropping into the debugger and really want to turn it back off so it sticks? That's right, they'll do what I did: customize it to nil. I'm not even all that na=C3=AFve a user; I've done some pretty heavy elisp hacking in my time, and this still really baffled me for a long time.=20=20 --=20 Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing Software Development Training http://www.boostpro.com Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers C++ Boost From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:41:41 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12068: 24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 20:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12068 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Dave Abrahams Cc: 12068@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12068-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12068.13440249597313 (code B ref 12068); Fri, 03 Aug 2012 20:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 12068) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Aug 2012 20:15:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59951 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SxOHu-0001tu-CS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:15:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:51180) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SxOHr-0001tm-Rh for 12068@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:15:56 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SxOAT-00032s-3S; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:08:17 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <4qr4rox4t5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: PLO Bletchley Park Clinton insurgency assassinate CDC X-Ran: 6pjsLfn66@jr{)x7y^[2dVVd|n_,S.,[Ljm0u'T:o:k+Yj\ja1T#(wt.;4lEW-W=NhnNtS X-Hue: cyan X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:08:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Thu, 02 Aug 2012 22:56:06 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Dave Abrahams wrote: > What do you think people will do when they've set it to non-nil and then > they get annoyed that they're always dropping into the debugger and > really want to turn it back off so it sticks? I recommend "erase customization" rather than toggling. I don't think it's worth implementing special handling for this scenario, so I have marked this as "wontfix". From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:41:41 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12068: 24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init Resent-From: Dave Abrahams Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 20:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12068 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Glenn Morris Cc: 12068@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12068-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12068.13440258518639 (code B ref 12068); Fri, 03 Aug 2012 20:31:01 +0000 Received: (at 12068) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Aug 2012 20:30:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59959 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SxOWJ-0002FI-7p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:30:51 -0400 Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com ([209.85.220.172]:46511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SxOWH-0002FA-4c for 12068@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:30:50 -0400 Received: by vcbfo14 with SMTP id fo14so1297384vcb.3 for <12068@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:23:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=6R96FJ3gWWAgvJs+TmrwvtV4IVECKTDAEjUr1Tjt82Q=; b=i2U59iawMVpIKIuQmaHZUfIyHm0YElJ41m2/3VNflr8FD41eB7gty7oTR1C/VYB6vB cdtal8KYTQhx+3kyDFUTUn59VwP90N02yea5YRTv2CjocmXShuZU999Mfk/zy2LJJkDP kocGaTtpcIT+lZUUoVyX8L/SNCo2f8WXpdKChbrHHr/mE+a6AMFoPysad58ArxT+be5/ TkX3CxYb48cvuIUdUx1hra8TcXSoLg8oOMalMiUpLQzRB3YKP6WDZPvciyDd8gAmC1Vx ndOdX8nGk1pw8EO4WH/WUZtRQJxuVzCRFA8ARh8klAKbhvGLkQ3cy+4OAtEViWrr/6cJ PsPQ== Received: by 10.52.100.165 with SMTP id ez5mr1991989vdb.108.1344025391030; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c17sm9637891vdj.11.2012.08.03.13.23.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6DC945D9F5F5; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 16:23:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams References: <4qr4rox4t5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:23:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:08:16 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl9QgKbJK8puv7Nkq9XaFjrShq0zgQwik4pZhB/5RAD0dg7dugmrhBPMzWCO+njZuQmDwEc X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) on Fri Aug 03 2012, Glenn Morris wrote: > Dave Abrahams wrote: > >> What do you think people will do when they've set it to non-nil and then >> they get annoyed that they're always dropping into the debugger and >> really want to turn it back off so it sticks? > > I recommend "erase customization" rather than toggling. Well of course I know that now. > I don't think it's worth implementing special handling for this > scenario, so I have marked this as "wontfix". Too bad. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing Software Development Training http://www.boostpro.com Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers C++ Boost From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:41:41 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#12068: 24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 08:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12068 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Glenn Morris Cc: Dave Abrahams , 12068@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 12068-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12068.139124199926332 (code B ref 12068); Sat, 01 Feb 2014 08:07:02 +0000 Received: (at 12068) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2014 08:06:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43838 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W9Vb4-0006qd-BO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 03:06:39 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:34607) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W9Vb0-0006qT-Ju for 12068@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 03:06:35 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1W9Val-0002Xj-F7; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 09:06:19 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <4qr4rox4t5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 00:05:27 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:08:16 -0400") Message-ID: <8761ozntq0.fsf@building.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1W9Val-0002Xj-F7 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1391846781.1502@C8evkZ4sGK+Tl11Nc8AbMg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Glenn Morris writes: > Dave Abrahams wrote: > >> What do you think people will do when they've set it to non-nil and then >> they get annoyed that they're always dropping into the debugger and >> really want to turn it back off so it sticks? > > I recommend "erase customization" rather than toggling. > > I don't think it's worth implementing special handling for this > scenario, so I have marked this as "wontfix". Does it even make sense to have `debug-on-error' be a `defcustom'? I don't think anybody would actually customize `debug-on-error' to `nil' (or anything else, for that matter) on purpose, would they? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 28 14:24:13 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2019 18:24:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnq8-0000tL-TP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:24:13 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:59666) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnq7-0000tC-Gs for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:24:11 -0400 Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=marnie) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnq4-0006c6-1s for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 20:24:10 +0200 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 20:24:07 +0200 Message-Id: <87wog29fw8.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #12068 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 12068 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) close 12068 quit