From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 25 14:51:12 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jun 2012 18:51:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57562 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SjENT-0002aD-LZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:51:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36806) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SjENR-0002a5-4g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:51:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjEJb-0004u0-8B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:47:12 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:38199) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjEJb-0004tq-2K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:47:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34109) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjEJZ-0002tv-GJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:47:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjEJX-0004tc-Hk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:47:08 -0400 Received: from ristopher.com ([146.185.21.93]:39917 helo=saturn.ch.ristopher.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjEJX-0004tM-47 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:47:07 -0400 Received: by saturn.ch.ristopher.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 8285B20B18; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:47:02 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ch.ristopher.com; s=mail; t=1340650022; bh=ABMpECDMAvTb42kY4aBytVQ5umazTTRhgj060Qc9R+A=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Date; b=K4MYaqgCYFy4FSFoKExF8P7AF8UPAS02CzHO0uZ+MZt1KGaEZ8MbeQyNtioc1XSSX vCqk9mDLvmQ5PuZOtQ+ipFLwk/MOc9xSaUFPr8ONqTpT2l3jbrMbe5xsbLLoMCDXM5 Fvg/FCqop7FP/F+HFR42I+twAEQvAv8thkfXY5qA= From: Christopher Schmidt To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting Message-ID: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:47:02 +0100 (BST) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) I am not exactly sure if this is a bug, a feature or something that is just undefined. (funcall (eval (eval '(let ((var)) (lambda ()))))) works fine, whereas (funcall (eval (eval '(let ((lex-var)) (lambda ())) t))) does not work. Backtrace: Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function closure) (closure ((lex-var) t) nil) eval((closure ((lex-var) t) nil)) (funcall (eval (eval (quote (let ((lex-var)) (lambda nil))) t))) eval((funcall (eval (eval (quote (let ((lex-var)) (lambda nil))) t)))) I am on GNU Emacs 24.1.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.10). Christopher From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 20 08:19:06 2012 Received: (at 11782) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2012 12:19:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52032 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SsCAj-0004Lj-Po for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:19:05 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:42823) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SsCAf-0004LM-Bt for 11782@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:19:03 -0400 Received: from fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q6KCCgDL021176; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:12:43 -0400 Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D84ECAECB8; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:12:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: 11782@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11782: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting Message-ID: References: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:12:41 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> (Christopher Schmidt's message of "Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:47:02 +0100 (BST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV4284=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4284> : streams <787673> : uri <1170218> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11782 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > (funcall (eval (eval '(let ((lex-var)) (lambda ())) t))) > does not work. Note that (eval (eval '(cons 1 2))) does not work either. So I don't consider it a bug. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 20 09:44:33 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2012 13:44:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SsDVQ-0006Ft-IF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:44:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38906) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SsDVO-0006Fm-JH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:44:31 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SsDPI-0007bG-MK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:38:13 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35819) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SsDPI-0007bC-JP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:38:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50220) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SsDPH-0005a5-GN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:38:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SsDPG-0007ar-71 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:38:11 -0400 Received: from ristopher.com ([146.185.21.93]:39506 helo=saturn.ch.ristopher.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SsDPF-0007al-VA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:38:10 -0400 Received: by saturn.ch.ristopher.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 7822620B90; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:38:07 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ch.ristopher.com; s=mail; t=1342791487; bh=39nO74oi5MizYeW/zBrhe+CEc+9WT4NEn8IzOZfwL5U=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Date; b=bcjvD02yuV39AcyJ4Y6/vKntgDcP7G/2M6ozeCPgHwfA8I/f43t83FP8hVf95UPVk 7insBCNA8/7svpUlewJnE97U3B2sbnu3PeU1vodeDX7AzANQrjUrK4pZzuxTutqMal 5MLm4mSQU6ocUp30qJ7ke1TrygU840mYppNn9nlI= From: Christopher Schmidt To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11782: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:12:41 -0400") References: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> Message-ID: <878vee364e@ch.ristopher.com> Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:38:07 +0100 (BST) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Stefan Monnier writes: Thanks for your answer. >> (funcall (eval (eval '(let ((lex-var)) (lambda ())) t))) >> does not work. > > Note that (eval (eval '(cons 1 2))) does not work either. > So I don't consider it a bug. That's true, of course. Lambdas are an exception in Emacs Lisp and CL, though. (info "(elisp)Lambda Expressions") In Emacs Lisp, such a list is valid as an expression--it evaluates to itself. But its main use is not to be evaluated as an expression, but to be called as a function. I stumbled upon this issue a few times already. So did others. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7913207/how-does-the-definition-for-apply-partially-work-in-emacs-24 IMO the info node I referenced above should mention this. Christopher From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 23 09:55:07 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2013 14:55:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9GVF-0001wK-KT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:55:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54305) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9GVC-0001vx-B1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:55:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9GTi-0003GY-PV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:53:34 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:40266) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9GTi-0003GR-ME for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:53:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37421) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9GTd-0005fA-K3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:53:30 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9GTW-0003Eg-7V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:53:25 -0500 Received: from ristopher.com ([146.185.21.93]:57828 helo=saturn.ch.ristopher.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9GTV-0003EV-WA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:53:18 -0500 Received: by saturn.ch.ristopher.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 259E421402; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 14:53:15 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ch.ristopher.com; s=mail; t=1361631195; bh=+WgdJrL4EXgC7+RR8CrQU2Mpx3fdfBMRYCj/AzByd8s=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Date; b=lXCqqWo59lERaId605L0SxcccohjFaR1PkSX6dhxObYIYIRomIiprTBj/It3dOuYB k2dndru+wyZibeBK9k7EaYsB9bU5pJfZmyVMq3XyQIdn2Q9XQ46uJobHnh37m9Dur9 ayQVs+TQMUzrB1Rxw54olgLqiEEBPokq//wbPmPI= From: Christopher Schmidt To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11782: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting In-Reply-To: <878vee364e@ch.ristopher.com> (Christopher Schmidt's message of "Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:38:07 +0100 (BST)") Message-ID: <87621j3wv5@ch.ristopher.com> References: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> <878vee364e@ch.ristopher.com> Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 14:53:15 +0000 (GMT) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) Ping? (I think the issue I describe is a severe bug.) Christopher From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 28 16:42:42 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2013 20:42:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38007 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhQj8-0006Qs-0V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:42:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59990) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhQj1-0006QW-GM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:42:35 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhQha-00050K-1A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:41:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:38208) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhQhZ-00050A-Si for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:41:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43078) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhQhU-0007cY-T4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:41:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhQhJ-0004y0-DM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:40:56 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:36859) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhQhJ-0004xi-8N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:40:45 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r4SKeiYi005619; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:40:44 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 25CC0B4319; Tue, 28 May 2013 16:40:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11782: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting Message-ID: References: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> <878vee364e@ch.ristopher.com> <87621j3wv5@ch.ristopher.com> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 16:40:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87621j3wv5@ch.ristopher.com> (Christopher Schmidt's message of "Sat, 23 Feb 2013 14:53:15 +0000 (GMT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV4593=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9362 : core <4593> : streams <969763> : uri <1432548> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) > (I think the issue I describe is a severe bug.) Could you expand on why you think it's severe? Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 28 18:37:01 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2013 22:37:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38172 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhSVo-0001B5-N6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:37:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55166) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhSVl-0001Ar-GS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:36:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhSUI-0006XV-0R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:35:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:57722) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhSUH-0006XR-TV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:35:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38262) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhSUB-0001Db-HO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:35:25 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhSU4-0006Vw-UC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:35:19 -0400 Received: from ristopher.com ([146.185.21.93]:50200 helo=saturn.ch.ristopher.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhSU4-0006VL-MH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:35:12 -0400 Received: by saturn.ch.ristopher.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 2F7BB201A3; Tue, 28 May 2013 23:35:08 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ch.ristopher.com; s=mail; t=1369780508; bh=lLXkV2wGXm4ryOgKmdZtGzF0drAwCLF/MOhrcM2gjeY=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Date; b=WX9YLpdUWFq4gIw5LxrtMOEa252bwnRiatipwT0yEUeXwpRKGqOFv1KfmRGfC8sjV Fko8so6eg6QNw3Lsq01XeAXF7nYugmwgXTks97Io/SvqwOmC0rac8G9kgUr5Wymkm7 5t7KTlCpjlSZ6emBfhCkbhq+MsNBThyZxDBAQaPQ= From: Christopher Schmidt To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11782: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 28 May 2013 16:40:44 -0400") Message-ID: <87obburavs@ch.ristopher.com> References: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> <878vee364e@ch.ristopher.com> <87621j3wv5@ch.ristopher.com> Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 23:35:08 +0100 (BST) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Stefan Monnier writes: Hi Stefan, > Could you expand on why you think it's severe? I think this issue is severe because the behaviour is odd and follows neither other mature Lispy languages nor the reference manual. (info "(elisp)Lambda Expressions") In Emacs Lisp, such a list is valid as an expression--it evaluates to itself. As I said 11 month ago, I hit on this issue a few times already. So did others. In most cases I had a lambda form that was eval'ed twice due to macro expansion. ;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*- (defmacro a () (let ((l (lambda () ))) `(funcall ,l))) (a) I realise there is a technical need for lambda's to evaluate to closures in a lexical environment. Are there any technical reasons for lexical closures to not self-quote? BTW I am perfectly fine with just fixing the docs. Christopher From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 28 20:27:08 2013 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 May 2013 00:27:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38325 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUEN-0004mk-Q8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:27:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46563) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUEK-0004mB-Su for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:27:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCs-0005WB-IX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:39 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:56795) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCs-0005W7-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCn-0005sa-8n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCh-0005UW-0p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:29 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:65204) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCg-0005US-SV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:22 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFFMCpOt/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBVjMLNBIUGA2IQgaxH5AOjWGDKQOkeoFegxM X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFFMCpOt/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBVjMLNBIUGA2IQgaxH5AOjWGDKQOkeoFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="14991155" Received: from 76-10-147-173.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.147.173]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 28 May 2013 20:25:15 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id DC93467DA9; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11782: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting Message-ID: References: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> <878vee364e@ch.ristopher.com> <87621j3wv5@ch.ristopher.com> <87obburavs@ch.ristopher.com> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87obburavs@ch.ristopher.com> (Christopher Schmidt's message of "Tue, 28 May 2013 23:35:08 +0100 (BST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) >> Could you expand on why you think it's severe? > I think this issue is severe because the behaviour is odd and follows > neither other mature Lispy languages nor the reference manual. I see. So we just disagree on what is considered severe (I expected something like "this and that common idiom found in those packages fails"). In Emacs Lisp, such a list is valid as an expression--it evaluates to itself. Clearly this doc needs to be fixed since it confuses lambda expressions and lambda values and while this conflation mostly worked in dynamic binding, it does not work any more in the presence of closures. I just installed the patch below. Stefan --- doc/lispref/functions.texi 2013-01-01 09:11:05 +0000 +++ doc/lispref/functions.texi 2013-05-29 00:16:58 +0000 @@ -196,9 +196,8 @@ @end example @noindent -In Emacs Lisp, such a list is valid as an expression---it evaluates to -itself. But its main use is not to be evaluated as an expression, but -to be called as a function. +In Emacs Lisp, such a list is a valid expression which evaluates to +a function object. A lambda expression, by itself, has no name; it is an @dfn{anonymous function}. Although lambda expressions can be used this way From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 29 03:07:09 2013 Received: (at 11782-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 May 2013 07:07:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38758 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhaTU-0002Bc-Pd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 May 2013 03:07:09 -0400 Received: from ristopher.com ([146.185.21.93]:49008 helo=saturn.ch.ristopher.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhaTO-0002BL-Cb for 11782-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 May 2013 03:07:04 -0400 Received: by saturn.ch.ristopher.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 2C8D3201A3; Wed, 29 May 2013 08:05:38 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ch.ristopher.com; s=mail; t=1369811138; bh=tqW4QEOnnWiB0BogEQY089/x3lSqj1zjYpxmh5rLXec=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Date; b=VtgY8YAAyzwkpWGJ66vTjRjTWrycFeqMCOL9kLmjcglCNZg4VLy68sMlLL/Gu2TgO S6rXG1WXSAahH7/dHVSFk/KPErduBXin6CtuGNasqHMIxJIGDd6TYmPAtFdHdlmQ6B oFHvgmPZltuhvj4k8Wr4B47nwUQOiJ1QuPVSxVz0= From: Christopher Schmidt To: 11782-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11782: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:17 -0400") Message-ID: <871u8q8dv8@ch.ristopher.com> References: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> <878vee364e@ch.ristopher.com> <87621j3wv5@ch.ristopher.com> <87obburavs@ch.ristopher.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 08:05:38 +0100 (BST) X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11782-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) Stefan Monnier writes: > In Emacs Lisp, such a list is valid as an expression--it evaluates > to itself. > > Clearly this doc needs to be fixed since it confuses lambda > expressions and lambda values and while this conflation mostly worked > in dynamic binding, it does not work any more in the presence of > closures. I just installed the patch below. Thanks a lot! Christopher From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:46:44 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator