From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:14:47 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#1175 <1175@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#1175 <1175@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.0.60; bookmark code regression Reply-To: bug#1175 <1175@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:14:47 +0000 retitle 1175 23.0.60; bookmark code regression reassign 1175 emacs submitter 1175 "Drew Adams" severity 1175 normal tag 1175 wontfix thanks From drew.adams@oracle.com Wed Oct 15 13:51:45 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 15 Oct 2008 20:51:45 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m9FKpg5j018252 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:51:43 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:37969) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KqDIr-0007FN-RJ for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:49:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KqDLJ-0002uv-E6 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:51:41 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:26081) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KqDLJ-0002u1-4E for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:51:41 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m9FKpSYP024444 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:51:28 -0600 Received: from acsmt703.oracle.com (acsmt703.oracle.com [141.146.40.81]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m9FKpSe2032539 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:51:28 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:51:27 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.0.60; bookmark code regression Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:51:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c92f07$cba207c0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 thread-index: AckvB8tM33n97iTPQpmjRcnEbW5raA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 Please, please restore the sane behavior of `bookmark-jump-noselect' as it was for Emacs 22: it should return a cons (BUFFER . POINT) when a bookmark is located. This breaks third-party code that calls `bookmark-jump-noselect'. In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2008-10-03 on LENNART-69DE564 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/g/include -fno-crossjumping' From cyd@stupidchicken.com Thu Oct 16 10:36:30 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 1175) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 16 Oct 2008 17:36:30 +0000 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m9GHaOX3004327 for <1175@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:36:25 -0700 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5FF3457E099; Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:36:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 1175@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.60; bookmark code regression Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:36:34 -0400 Message-ID: <873aiwqw65.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stefan, I guess this is your change. "Drew Adams" wrote: > Please, please restore the sane behavior of `bookmark-jump-noselect' > as it was for Emacs 22: it should return a cons (BUFFER . POINT) > when a bookmark is located. > > This breaks third-party code that calls `bookmark-jump-noselect'. From cyd@stupidchicken.com Tue Oct 21 09:54:57 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 1175) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Oct 2008 16:54:57 +0000 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m9LGssds008173 for <1175@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:54:55 -0700 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 08FA257E0BD; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:54:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 1175@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.60; bookmark code regression Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:54:56 -0400 Message-ID: <87ljwhsxb3.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Please, please restore the sane behavior of `bookmark-jump-noselect' > as it was for Emacs 22: it should return a cons (BUFFER . POINT) when > a bookmark is located. I discussed with Stefan. Since bookmark-jump-noselect is an internal function of bookmark.el, we don't guarantee that its behavior is unchanged across Emacs versions. Furthermore, the bookmark-jump-noselect not only returned (BUFFER . POINT) but also preserved the current buffer (and point) instead of changing buffer and moving point, whereas the new version does change buffer and point. So it doesn't make sense to change the return value of the new version. From cyd@stupidchicken.com Tue Oct 21 09:55:34 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Oct 2008 16:55:34 +0000 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m9LGtVco009338 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:55:32 -0700 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2CDB957E0BD; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:55:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: tag 1175 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:55:33 -0400 Message-ID: <87hc75sxa2.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii tags 1175 wontfix thanks From drew.adams@oracle.com Tue Oct 21 10:53:17 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 1175) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Oct 2008 17:53:17 +0000 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com (agminet01.oracle.com [141.146.126.228]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m9LHrEGq023092 for <1175@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:53:15 -0700 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m9LHr5pe009314; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:53:06 -0500 Received: from acsmt704.oracle.com (acsmt704.oracle.com [141.146.40.82]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m9LHr4Zr019162; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:53:05 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.55.100) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:53:04 +0000 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Chong Yidong'" Cc: <1175@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <87ljwhsxb3.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Subject: RE: 23.0.60; bookmark code regression Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:53:09 -0700 Message-ID: <009d01c933a5$e17ff690$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87ljwhsxb3.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Thread-Index: AckznctFKhAtSlc6ScC8LE/f2xghQwAAI78w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE > > Please, please restore the sane behavior of `bookmark-jump-noselect' > > as it was for Emacs 22: it should return a cons (BUFFER . > > POINT) when a bookmark is located. > > I discussed with Stefan. Since bookmark-jump-noselect is an internal > function of bookmark.el, we don't guarantee that its behavior is > unchanged across Emacs versions. Furthermore, the > bookmark-jump-noselect not only returned (BUFFER . POINT) but also > preserved the current buffer (and point) instead of changing > buffer and moving point, whereas the new version does change buffer > and point. So it doesn't make sense to change the return value of > the new version. I was afraid you might come back with a copout such as saying it is an internal-only function. I disagree, obviously, or I wouldn't have filed the bug. This is analogous to `find-file-noselect'. `bookmark-jump-noselect' is an obvious choice for some function to call, to obtain the bookmark buffer and buffer position. Without actually displaying it - perhaps because some other display mechanism is preferred or perhaps because some other manipulation is to be performed. You have decided to couple (hard-code) obtaining the buffer and position with the act of displaying it. Bad design. It is irrelevant whether the old and new `bookmark-jump-noselect's differ in which buffer and position are current after they are called. No one asked you to preserve the current buffer and point - that's not what this is about. This bug is about the return value (only). What's important is to be able to obtain the buffer and position indicated by the argument BOOKMARK. The only function that does that (er, did that) is `bookmark-jump-noselect'. This is what I must do now, to give you an idea: (let ((cell (bookmark-jump-noselect bookmark))) (when (> emacs-major-version 22) ; UGLY HACK (setq cell (cons (current-buffer) (point)))) (when cell ...)) You've given no reason why `bookmark-jump-noselect' should *not* continue to return (BUFFER . POINT) - none whatsoever. And you even phrase your refusal in terms of not wanting to *change*: "it doesn't make sense to change the return value of the new version". What chutzpah. Emacs 23 has not even been released, so please don't speak of "changing" from the Emacs 23 behavior to what has always been the behavior before. That language betrays a myopic view of Emacs development: any difference from the current behavior is interpreted as a "change" request. Change is what you've done (with no discussion or change request ;-), it is not what I'm requesting. You've changed the return value. Please *do not* change it - return the same value as Emacs always has: (BUFFER . POINT). Restore the behavior that's been broken. There is, BTW, nothing truly "internal" when it comes to Emacs, especially when it comes to Emacs Lisp. And in this case, there is no reason to consider `buffer-jump-noselect' somehow off-limits for use by others. And as to guarantees about things not changing from one release to another - that's a joke. You've never guaranteed backward compatibility even for the most non-internal of features. Backward compatibility is hardly one of the strong points of Emacs development. AFAICT, it is no concern whatsoever of the developers. Whenever it is brought up it is rebuked as a non-concern. Please reconsider. 1. There is no other function that provides the buffer and position of a bookmark. That is one of the obvious uses/purposes of `buffer-jump-noselect' - or at least it has been until the behavior was broken by this change. Sure, a user can write such a function using the hack shown above, but s?he shouldn't have to. 2. There is no reason not to return the same value as before: (BUFFER . POINT). You have given no such reason, and the return value is not specially used by the current code. There is no harm in continuing to return something that can be useful outside `bookmark.el'. Please try to think more openly, not so narrowly, about the changes you make. Coupling determination of bookmark location with display is just plain bad. And unnecessary - nothing is gained by that coupling, and nothing will be lost by decoupling the two a bit. From rms@gnu.org Tue Oct 21 23:23:42 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 1175) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 22 Oct 2008 06:23:42 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m9M6Nd5U015000 for <1175@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:23:40 -0700 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KsX5V-0002yH-Ly; Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:20:57 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: "Richard M. Stallman" To: Drew Adams , 1175@debbugs.gnu.org CC: cyd@stupidchicken.com, bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com, 1175@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-reply-to: <009d01c933a5$e17ff690$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (drew.adams@oracle.com) Subject: Re: bug#1175: 23.0.60; bookmark code regression Reply-to: rms@gnu.org References: <87ljwhsxb3.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <009d01c933a5$e17ff690$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:20:57 -0400 This is analogous to `find-file-noselect'. `bookmark-jump-noselect' is an obvious choice for some function to call, to obtain the bookmark buffer and buffer position. Without actually displaying it - perhaps because some other display mechanism is preferred or perhaps because some other manipulation is to be performed. I agree with you. Emacs 23 has not even been released, so please don't speak of "changing" from the Emacs 23 behavior to what has always been the behavior before. You are right here too. Compatibility with past Emacs releases is more important, generally speaking, than avoiding changes in the sources now. I am sure this function isn't used in very many places in Emacs, so changing it back to be compatible won't be a lot of work. There is, BTW, nothing truly "internal" when it comes to Emacs, especially when it comes to Emacs Lisp. That doesn't really matter. There are functions which users should not call, and if they do, they are out of luck when we change them. But `bookmark-jump-noselect' should not be treated that way; it is too natural and useful. From monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Mon Oct 27 06:33:09 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 1175) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 27 Oct 2008 13:33:09 +0000 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.182]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m9RDWxOo009707 for <1175@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 27 Oct 2008 06:33:01 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFAK9fBUlFxIGZ/2dsb2JhbACBdr9jg0+BDQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,492,1220241600"; d="scan'208";a="28898915" Received: from 69-196-129-153.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.196.129.153]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 27 Oct 2008 09:32:53 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C031C8E6F; Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:32:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Chong Yidong Cc: 1175@debbugs.gnu.org, "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#1175: 23.0.60; bookmark code regression Message-ID: References: <87ljwhsxb3.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:32:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87ljwhsxb3.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> (Chong Yidong's message of "Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:54:56 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Please, please restore the sane behavior of `bookmark-jump-noselect' >> as it was for Emacs 22: it should return a cons (BUFFER . POINT) when >> a bookmark is located. > I discussed with Stefan. Since bookmark-jump-noselect is an internal > function of bookmark.el, we don't guarantee that its behavior is > unchanged across Emacs versions. Furthermore, the > bookmark-jump-noselect not only returned (BUFFER . POINT) but also > preserved the current buffer (and point) instead of changing buffer and > moving point, whereas the new version does change buffer and point. So > it doesn't make sense to change the return value of the new version. I think there's a slight disagreement: I think it's worthwhile to preserve the old semantics of bookmark-jump-noselect, but not by changing the current one: instead, we should rename b-j-n to something else and write a new b-j-n wrapper. Stefan From cyd@stupidchicken.com Wed Oct 29 10:44:52 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 1175-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Oct 2008 17:44:52 +0000 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m9THinGh012520 for <1175-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:44:51 -0700 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 60D6257E0BE; Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:44:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: 1175-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.0.60; bookmark code regression Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:44:55 -0400 Message-ID: <87skqfnvmw.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've checked in code that renames bookmark-jump-noselect to bookmark-handle-bookmark, with a bookmark-jump-noselect wrapper. From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:14:47 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator