From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 18 13:49:37 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2012 17:49:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46932 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgg53-0008Ve-ET for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:49:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59973) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgg51-0008VY-PQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:49:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgg1m-0007jR-5J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:46:18 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35255) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgg1m-0007jJ-2a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:46:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39340) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgg1k-0008HL-FT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:46:13 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgg1d-0007hg-Vi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:46:11 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:16999) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgg1d-0007gm-Pm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:46:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5IHk1FS005836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:46:02 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5IHk1xE026914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:46:01 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5IHk0fv029631 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:46:00 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.170.230) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:46:00 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:45:45 -0700 Message-ID: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac1NejAyDk4hCIVOQA6r3rfBdPh/Rw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) I load a library that I did not write, which does this: (require 'cl) (defun foo (short full short-index initial-full-index chunks current-chunk current-chunk-pos recurse-p) "..." (declare ;(optimize speed) (fixnum short-index initial-full-index) (simple-string short full) (special *all-chunks*)) Now I see this in *Messages*" Warning: Unknown defun property fixnum in foo Warning: Unknown defun property simple-string in foo Is this a bug? In GNU Emacs 24.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-06-18 on MARVIN Bzr revision: 108646 michael.albinus@gmx.de-20120617185439-jfcgwwbr97nbflkz Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libiconv-1.13.1-1-dev/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libxml2-2.7.8/include/libxml2' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 18 16:40:46 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2012 20:40:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47189 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgikf-0005aq-BC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:40:46 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:57103) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgikd-0005aj-8k for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:40:43 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q5IKbOJM020197; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:37:24 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 708CDB4255; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:37:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Message-ID: References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:37:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:45:45 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4254=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4254> : streams <769906> : uri <1142813> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > I load a library that I did not write, which does this: > (require 'cl) > (defun foo > (short full > short-index initial-full-index > chunks current-chunk current-chunk-pos > recurse-p) > "..." > (declare ;(optimize speed) > (fixnum short-index initial-full-index) > (simple-string short full) > (special *all-chunks*)) > Now I see this in *Messages*" > Warning: Unknown defun property fixnum in foo > Warning: Unknown defun property simple-string in foo > Is this a bug? It's a name-clash between Elisp's `declare' and CL's `declare', which results in warnings, which AFAIK are harmless. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 18 16:52:58 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2012 20:52:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47198 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgiwU-0005rx-0J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:52:58 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:24672) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgiwR-0005rq-PX for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:52:56 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5IKnauT028804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:49:37 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5IKnZbA024050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:49:36 GMT Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5IKnZK2015370; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:49:35 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.170.230) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:49:35 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:49:19 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac1Nki0MdCw0jhVeSkKUoarbrZ4LmgAAMf/Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > Warning: Unknown defun property fixnum in foo > > Warning: Unknown defun property simple-string in foo > > > Is this a bug? > > It's a name-clash between Elisp's `declare' and CL's `declare', which > results in warnings, which AFAIK are harmless. Yes, well it would be clearer for us to say something about _declare_ here, not just something about a "defun property". Bonus points for saying something to make it clear to users (of cl.el) that these particular Common Lisp `declare' settings are not supported by cl.el. (Warnings are not necessarily harmless, BTW, mais passons...) Anyway, feel free to close the bug. I mainly wanted to raise the question, not being sure this was the message you intended. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 18 17:15:17 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2012 21:15:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47203 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgjI4-0006NC-9r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:15:17 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:25579) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgjI1-0006N4-JL for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:15:14 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5ILBr6f011392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:11:54 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5ILBp2l008251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:11:52 GMT Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5ILBpOi002340; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:11:51 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.170.230) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:11:51 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:11:35 -0700 Message-ID: <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac1Nki0MdCw0jhVeSkKUoarbrZ4LmgAAMf/QAACr7BA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > > Warning: Unknown defun property fixnum in foo > > > Warning: Unknown defun property simple-string in foo > > > > > Is this a bug? > > > > It's a name-clash between Elisp's `declare' and CL's > > `declare', which results in warnings, which AFAIK are harmless. > > Yes, well it would be clearer for us to say something about > _declare_ here, not just something about a "defun property". > > Bonus points for saying something to make it clear to users > (of cl.el) that these particular Common Lisp `declare' settings are not > supported by cl.el. > > (Warnings are not necessarily harmless, BTW, mais passons...) > > Anyway, feel free to close the bug. I mainly wanted to raise > the question, not being sure this was the message you intended. Actually, no; I'm being too lenient about this. This should _not_ be a runtime message that _users_ see, IMO. Byte-compiler "warnings" are one thing (they can be annoying enough occasionally). This, however, is downright obnoxious. I'm seeing this each time I start Emacs, just because I load a library (`el-swank-fuzzy') that someone converted from SLIME code. If Emacs doesn't know how to handle such things then it should wisely apply the maxim, "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." IOW, do not advertise Emacs ignorance at runtime, just pass over it in respectful silence. Byte compilation is a different story. Yes, we should let someone who is byte-compiling know about such things. But not users who just load (and maybe never invoke anything in) some library. Can we please put a muzzle on this? Thx. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 18 17:46:53 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2012 21:46:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47226 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgjme-00075T-NX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:46:53 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:53456) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgjmc-00075M-HT for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:46:50 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q5ILhVEb026105; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:43:32 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 33330B4255; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:43:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Message-ID: References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:43:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:11:35 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV4254=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4254> : streams <769937> : uri <1142858> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > I'm seeing this each time I start Emacs, just because I load a library > (`el-swank-fuzzy') that someone converted from SLIME code. Then, byte-compile it, and the message will go away. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 18 18:07:38 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2012 22:07:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47241 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgk6i-0007YM-Uh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:07:38 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:41213) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgk6h-0007YF-55 for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:07:35 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5IM4EAv020588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:04:15 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5IM4DP9020818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:04:13 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5IM4COu006629; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:04:13 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.170.230) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:04:12 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com><4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:03:56 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac1Nm2mRkKPLyNrcS5CoelC0tdoAywAAbWZw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > Then, byte-compile it, and the message will go away. Great, but that doesn't sound like a general solution for the problem. It's not about my use of this library. Or even about an arbitrary user's use of this library. Apparently you are wedded to the idea of a runtime message here. Haven't seen any reason given, but whatever. To me this is a poster child for the kind of thing we should not be issuing a runtime warning for: a Common-Lisp declaration that we do not even recognize (hence can have no effect), and which in Common Lisp itself is only for optimization anyway. But it's your call, of course. I ask only that you think about it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 18 21:02:36 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 01:02:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47395 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgmq4-0003uw-0u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:02:36 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:1737) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgmq1-0003up-Vo for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:02:34 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAG6Zu09FxINN/2dsb2JhbABEsEiDSYEIghUBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHAW6CZBEA6MzgViDBQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="191669463" Received: from 69-196-131-77.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.196.131.77]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 18 Jun 2012 20:59:14 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 0B81C592C5; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:59:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Message-ID: References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:59:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:03:56 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > Apparently you are wedded to the idea of a runtime message here. No, it's simply a macro-expansion-time message. Macro-expansion either happens at compile-time, or if the file is not compiled it happens at run-time. The macro doesn't know whether it's called during compilation or at run-time. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 18 22:49:07 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 02:49:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47544 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgoV9-0006Kr-FO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:49:07 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:40596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgoV6-0006Kj-QG for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:49:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5J2jhHV009378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:45:44 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5J2jhJ9001833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:45:43 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5J2jg87024728; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:45:43 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.170.47) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:45:42 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com><4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:45:26 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac1NtsBYO9JEFwIYRUWMmJ6gSA3G6QADazgw X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > Apparently you are wedded to the idea of a runtime message here. > > No, So if you are not wedded to it, then perhaps this will be fixed? > it's simply a macro-expansion-time message. > Macro-expansion either > happens at compile-time, or if the file is not compiled it happens at > run-time. The macro doesn't know whether it's called during > compilation or at run-time. Thanks for the implementation description. But that does not speak to what the message is really for and whether or how much the current implementation really fits the message's purpose. Do what you will with this bug report. To my mind it is misguided to bother & possibly confuse users with this kind of message when they just load some library. Without checking the Common Lisp spec (IANAL), I would guess that even Common Lisp, which defines such optimization declarations, leaves it up to CL implementations to ignore some of them. But I doubt that it leaves it up to them to raise a warning for those declarations it does not recognize. Just a guess (haven't read CLTL in a _long_ time). But that's typically the approach taken for this kind of thing (optimization declarations, hints to compilers or optimizers, etc.): Handle the unknown with silence - not with alarm. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 19 07:58:34 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 11:58:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48119 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgx4s-0003X2-OC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:58:34 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:44591) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgx4r-0003Wv-1H for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:58:34 -0400 Received: by pbcwy7 with SMTP id wy7so8940050pbc.3 for <11735@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:55:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+5VPeNzMgS/U6gk9EYkQYO2YpcCuYr9WdWKcnhdtq1c=; b=NvBIGt/XYXMpDh5F/pzlpwsXq8VqebaumDk9jO11L/LtH5hqQey5De3/3ePceU3vtW DJKCz+/Up72Pbey+qircaKurZMfgmB/Exrn/iouwfsKJVQblIug7rGLcezwGO5xBC1U1 sy/X5X1u0M7Jr4LZmmMFSM/D6QG8coHFjAnGu9xMg4/McrU2xlUhlrNQDnEOBzjRGjzp Ycb/DYY8ywzcw6f2mx/SqP0g4iSZR76Gm65ZICCAXIuouNVNRmD6tzS+BMhSG44XFp7R aEOGt4i44sbxcZwWfuru42Os4MACWMI6kPt6iw5Pmo/FKneNDWtd/K8lVaabFBA2VjpB vePw== Received: by 10.68.194.6 with SMTP id hs6mr64445309pbc.133.1340106909464; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:55:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.162.16 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:54:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> From: Juanma Barranquero Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:54:29 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > Without checking the Common Lisp spec (IANAL), I would guess that even Co= mmon > Lisp, which defines such optimization declarations, leaves it up to CL > implementations to ignore some of them. =C2=A0But I doubt that it leaves = it up to > them to raise a warning for those declarations it does not recognize. This is SBCL 1.0.55.7.mswinmt.1185-d20ec0c, an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp. ;; [etc] * (defun test1 () (declare (foo)) t) ; in: defun test1 ; (FOO) ; ; caught warning: ; unrecognized declaration (foo) ; ; compilation unit finished ; caught 1 WARNING condition test1 * (defun test2 () (declare (optimize bar)) t) ; in: defun test2 ; (OPTIMIZE BAR) ; ; caught warning: ; Ignoring unknown optimization quality bar in: (optimize bar) ; ; compilation unit finished ; caught 1 WARNING condition test2 * From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 19 09:38:11 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 13:38:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48239 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgydH-0005nE-ES for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:38:11 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:48625) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgydE-0005n4-Mz for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:38:09 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5JDYi1l016243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:34:45 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5JDYigT020846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:34:44 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5JDYhlo010538; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:34:43 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.218.98) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:34:43 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juanma Barranquero'" References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:34:25 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac1OEmEnALxNF1UgS5++LYufjNKMYQADItHg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Stefan Monnier' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > Without checking the Common Lisp spec (IANAL), I would=20 > > guess that even Common Lisp, which defines such optimization > > declarations, leaves it up to CL implementations to ignore > > some of them. =A0But I doubt that it leaves it up to > > them to raise a warning for those declarations it does not=20 > > recognize. >=20 > This is SBCL 1.0.55.7.mswinmt.1185-d20ec0c, an implementation of ANSI > Common Lisp. > * (defun test2 () (declare (optimize bar)) t) > ; in: defun test2 > ; (OPTIMIZE BAR) > ; caught warning: > ; Ignoring unknown optimization quality bar in: (optimize bar) > ; compilation unit finished > ; caught 1 WARNING condition OK, so you've confirmed my doubt. I stand corrected. (Actually, you've shown only that there exists an implementation (albeit = a common one) that prints a warning. That does not confirm that the CL = spec says that's OK. But I claimed IANAL...) Perhaps this kind of message is a candidate for a :debug warning level? = I already said that it is useful for programmers. I do not see it as = helpful for general users just loading a library. On the contrary: some might = become confused, if not downright worried. That's all I'm trying to say. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 19 09:45:18 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 13:45:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48248 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgyk9-0005xx-N1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:45:18 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com ([209.85.210.44]:55781) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgyk7-0005xp-3L for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:45:16 -0400 Received: by dacx6 with SMTP id x6so7912627dac.3 for <11735@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:41:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5wP6Jbq5OqkkVGraxVzVUZMXrQnWShBoPUkdZ3KkfRU=; b=uUquy51FXDzHouqXYf4O8ysNdklfl1NAGIA5Ez0gCOzaaTMeeBWJOWwOfBJIncPx0d 4BMPIcQ4IWp5yBdJBmmlPp1IZEIcPiVZvtwbZadGW+QwZSRClDVGlDxzeRtdDCeB3NSO ggV34kfrSFelkQ0nRduJg/jWlsjaMokEVyF+9QQh8oAmzhLtHg9DFHUtr1vm16Ce9pdH gSb7TTLXldIfToZIQg1QFGkRrHTY6RhhM2TDlEBeqrZCkdhHwlGIWUrQnhAa6vD/oUtb rOaRNC3hK9y/ExPcR8ctoFL7QIIqagPOQJWsM/wsPWTrZNp5qhBg0vWiOmI++2zUSXFI lUiw== Received: by 10.68.194.6 with SMTP id hs6mr65414973pbc.133.1340113312274; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:41:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.162.16 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:41:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> From: Juanma Barranquero Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:41:11 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > (Actually, you've shown only that there exists an implementation (albeit = a > common one) that prints a warning. =C2=A0That does not confirm that the C= L spec says > that's OK. =C2=A0But I claimed IANAL...) http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#ANSI-Conformance "Essentially every type of non-conformance is considered a bug. (The exceptions involve internal inconsistencies in the standard.)" > Perhaps this kind of message is a candidate for a :debug warning level? = =C2=A0I > already said that it is useful for programmers. =C2=A0I do not see it as = helpful for > general users just loading a library. =C2=A0On the contrary: some might b= ecome > confused, if not downright worried. =C2=A0That's all I'm trying to say. I'm all for ways to silence irrelevant warnings. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Juanma From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 19 12:39:26 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 16:39:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48786 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh1Sg-0003Ml-IK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:39:26 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:37843) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh1Sd-0003Md-VI for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:39:25 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q5JGa0UT025769; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:36:01 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C298EB422C; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:36:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Juanma Barranquero Subject: Re: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Message-ID: References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:36:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Juanma Barranquero's message of "Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:41:11 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4255=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4255> : streams <770478> : uri <1143548> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) >> (Actually, you've shown only that there exists an implementation >> (albeit a common one) that prints a warning. =A0That does not confirm >> that the CL spec says that's OK. But I claimed IANAL...) > http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#ANSI-Conformance AFAIK, contrary to Ada, Common Lisp does not try to enforce particular behaviors with respect to compilation warnings. >> Perhaps this kind of message is a candidate for a :debug warning level? = =A0I >> already said that it is useful for programmers. =A0I do not see it as he= lpful for >> general users just loading a library. =A0On the contrary: some might bec= ome >> confused, if not downright worried. =A0That's all I'm trying to say. Just to put things in perspective, this message only occurs for uses of `declare' which use declarations not supported directly by Elisp (that's fairly uncommon) and only for those `declare's that are inside a `defun' rather than a `defun*' (even less common), and then only for code that's not byte-compiled. That's sufficiently rare that I'm not worried about it. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 19 13:12:24 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 17:12:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48865 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh1ya-0004Ae-6N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:12:24 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:33729) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh1yY-0004AW-H3 for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:12:23 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5JH8vo4001671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:08:58 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5JH8u3M018789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:08:57 GMT Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5JH8uS1032422; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:08:56 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.218.98) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:08:56 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Juanma Barranquero'" References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com><4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:08:38 -0700 Message-ID: <756D5F2362494551A6C983F58664ED63@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac1OOaAdwzBcpzeESUiZCl2mHJWtQQAAssVg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > Common Lisp does not try to enforce particular > behaviors with respect to compilation warnings. OK. > >> Perhaps this kind of message is a candidate for a :debug=20 > >> warning level? =A0I already said that it is useful for > >> programmers. =A0I do not see it as helpful for general users > >> just loading a library. =A0On the contrary: some might become > >> confused, if not downright worried. =A0That's all I'm trying to = say. >=20 > Just to put things in perspective, this message only occurs=20 > for uses of `declare' which use declarations not supported > directly by Elisp (that's fairly uncommon) Maybe not so uncommon for code that either is designed to work also with = other Emacsen (XEmacs? dunno) or for code that was originally taken from some = other Lisp. The latter seems to be the case for `el-swank-fuzzy.el'. > and only for those `declare's that are inside a `defun' rather > than a `defun*' (even less common), Less common: doubtful in the latter case I mentioned. = `el-swank-fuzzy.el' is an example here too. It uses both `defun*' and `defun', and it uses the unsupported `declare' settings only with `defun'. The point is not that that library is a model or does things the way = they should be done. The point is that that library is perhaps not atypical or rare = as an example of code that was moved to Emacs Lisp from Common Lisp. The author presumably used `defun' when that was straightforward, and = used `defun*' when s?he needed Common Lisp `defun' thingies that are not = available in Emacs `defun'. (Doing that instead of just using `defun*' everywhere = has the advantage of making it clear which function definitions really need the = added juice of `defun*'.) > and then only for code that's not byte-compiled. > That's sufficiently rare that I'm not worried about it. Maybe not worrying. But worth a bug report. And it would be good to = give this message a :debug warning level so it does not annoy or confuse users. = Any reason not to do that? At least as a wishlist item? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 19 17:40:43 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 21:40:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49025 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh6AE-0002cs-Ro for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:40:43 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:43034) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh6AC-0002cl-Ro for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:40:41 -0400 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q5JLbGmo006292; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:37:16 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 7CF42592CA; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:37:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Message-ID: References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> <756D5F2362494551A6C983F58664ED63@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:37:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <756D5F2362494551A6C983F58664ED63@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:08:38 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4255=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4255> : streams <770625> : uri <1143759> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 'Juanma Barranquero' , 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > Maybe not worrying. But worth a bug report. And it would be good to > give this message a :debug warning level so it does not annoy or > confuse users. Any reason not to do that? How 'bout because we don't have any notion of "level" of messages? Remember: this is a `message' from a macro, not some warning from the byte-compiler. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 19 18:36:54 2012 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jun 2012 22:36:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49079 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh72b-0003rn-HH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:36:53 -0400 Received: from rcsinet14.oracle.com ([148.87.113.126]:49090) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh72V-0003rd-LS for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:36:51 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet14.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5JM2lsM028488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <11735@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:02:47 GMT Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q5JM1iW2005676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:01:46 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5JM1h8o000840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:01:43 GMT Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q5JM1YHb022517; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:01:42 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.218.98) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:01:34 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com><4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com><756D5F2362494551A6C983F58664ED63@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:01:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac1OY7ZACYuQL2nbT5+xzJm3Nrg5vAAAIwjA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117] X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 'Juanma Barranquero' , 11735@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > because we don't have any notion of "level" of messages? > Remember: this is a `message' from a macro, not some warning from the > byte-compiler. OK. So any expansion of the macro will lead to the message. Guess I have to give up hoping that the message could be targeted better to the programmer writing the (declare...), whom it is aimed at, and not also users of the library. The text could still perhaps be improved, as I suggested. It would be better to (a) mention `declare' and (b) show the unsupported expression in its entirety. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 22:41:44 2014 Received: (at 11735) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2014 03:41:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58699 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLH5-00053y-50 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 22:41:43 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:38140) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLH1-00053p-PA for 11735@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 22:41:40 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLGk-0004kq-Kk; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 04:41:23 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#11735: 24.1.50; "Warning: Unknown defun property ... in ..." References: <8DE4AF0D660148A7A7D69D38AD6BEE74@us.oracle.com> <4943188A1CCD43D98D28B1A62D6D115A@us.oracle.com> <756D5F2362494551A6C983F58664ED63@us.oracle.com> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 19:40:11 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:01:15 -0700") Message-ID: <87sirtgdic.fsf@building.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1WCLGk-0004kq-Kk X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392522083.11642@DJwIbcs+d+AJwBaiXqTxoQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11735 Cc: 'Juanma Barranquero' , 11735@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Stefan Monnier' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) "Drew Adams" writes: >> because we don't have any notion of "level" of messages? >> Remember: this is a `message' from a macro, not some warning from the >> byte-compiler. > > OK. > > So any expansion of the macro will lead to the message. Guess I have to give up > hoping that the message could be targeted better to the programmer writing the > (declare...), whom it is aimed at, and not also users of the library. Ok; closing. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 22:41:46 2014 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2014 03:41:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58702 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLH8-00054D-0z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 22:41:46 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:38147) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLH6-000540-5h for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 22:41:44 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLGq-0004ky-Bj for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 04:41:28 +0100 Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 19:40:18 -0800 Message-Id: <87r47dgdi5.fsf@building.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #11735 X-MailScanner-ID: 1WCLGq-0004ky-Bj X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392522088.93444@VRdCYXZ1/vD38RRjMlAiKw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tags 11735 wontfix close 11735 From unknown Tue Aug 19 21:04:27 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator