From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 10 13:32:42 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2012 17:32:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36901 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sdm0H-0003sG-SW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:32:42 -0400 Received: from mail-qa0-f44.google.com ([209.85.216.44]:62408) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sdm0E-0003s6-6C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:32:40 -0400 Received: by qadz3 with SMTP id z3so1936372qad.3 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:30:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:x-debbugs-version:x-debbugs-package:date:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=b8pK9YnKKgGRQcA5IJA305e3ciVwOojQwFkdVA59gks=; b=In6QoUN818NRd97MamT6PlXaOg2vzp4oOm3Budwwoo7rnnPk2EuiKCHzUKoT0H6Aey tVSH1C/PEL86a2LVGb4s70KTqHdInRSyRq7HmQZvMAqBA6Hh7a8HLuwONdjQANloGqgy dAUSgPHZ95VWdvXp2Py9C9QhkERd00uKiQD/xy5DeMHqQLG/QLv2/l5t4xiXlKPvxAnS sMISTpE6JJjYPRgRcxIduEy1mCfozD6Zw5CdGujJZKOfsRO+jNZ7oSSjZsBfjN/k6Kdx cCI5jHdZ+GF+2qJLYbF4j81svw9Kp0W7s++Tpmh9+Y5X/0cnd0Vukhlva+zVufS5NEWG D6Aw== Received: by 10.224.181.134 with SMTP id by6mr8942731qab.56.1339349405844; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm13880727qac.9.2012.06.10.10.30.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id AD3B85270BA1; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:30:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys) Subject: default-directory X-Debbugs-Version: 5.130006 X-Debbugs-Package: gnus Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:30:08 -0400 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.0.94 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnegBbX1DRA4VypME9KYmNCH/BZ/ix8MltL5OeoPqw6N5oqdD85u3rnnfU6mkechzsTLnHJ X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) I find quite often that all of Gnu's many buffers are being created with a default-directory set to something that's either accessed via TRAMP or simply doesn't exist anymore. Either one will cause major problems, with things either getting crazy slow, or just not working anymore. I have no good ideas about how to track this down and fix it :-( but I thought you should have a report. Ma Gnus v0.6 GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0, Carbon Version 1.6.0 AppKit 1138.47) of 2012-05-24 on pluto.luannocracy.com 200 Text.GigaNews.Com 500 syntax error or unknown command -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 10 18:01:45 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2012 22:01:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37063 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SdqCe-0001Qv-Q5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:01:44 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:45952) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SdqCb-0001Qp-Tz for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:01:42 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SdqA2-00024k-IJ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 23:59:02 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAMFBMVEXk5uMkBjBuKTv59Nr+ /vyscIT+//vG07qli5P////9//1dMSj9/Pbv7KmZqVRySEKBkgNAAAAAzElEQVQ4jWNgwA44GGZi BxNIlphDW4kpniACLsHgxXDAgAEuMRMu0cj+qei3BEIfksRvekgUjliJRurpwCUhPZgk5pwBg2h2 ocDfEmDmERcXkMT0UEwQAJKYAMl0994hgcdIdtxFBpeRJOpQdUyDSyCLv3vgiZDoV0ICCp4+yDlq 1pRZK1elgUCKC4oECExxcXEDirslo0u4eLq4gPQcwJAACp7JOXMGJjFlpgvQEKApIHEQOA6ScIHo ToOLAgE7RIcnWDAnLQcmfoYDAHiEg4HTuL8nAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Pet Shop Boys's _Format (2)_: "I didn't get where I am today" Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 23:59:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:30:08 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1SdqA2-00024k-IJ X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1339970343.04476@eZC3qv6U9ZbgeCsoeb3vWA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Dave Abrahams writes: > I find quite often that all of Gnu's many buffers are being created with > a default-directory set to something that's either accessed via TRAMP or > simply doesn't exist anymore. Either one will cause major problems, > with things either getting crazy slow, or just not working anymore. I > have no good ideas about how to track this down and fix it :-( but I > thought you should have a report. Do you set `default-directory' or `gnus-default-directory' to something explicitly? I can't really imagine how Gnus would set the default directory in any of its buffers to a TRAMP path by itself... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 10 20:06:56 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2012 00:06:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sds9n-0004zV-Tr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:06:56 -0400 Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com ([209.85.216.172]:37407) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sds9m-0004zO-9Z for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:06:55 -0400 Received: by qcsq13 with SMTP id q13so2528301qcs.3 for <11666@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:04:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=yao79h/JIsw3v4IO79JSX6uPStQaPej52wF+BFClcL0=; b=aVnc0G7Gw3+0OtW6zY08KqQjH9taZDPc29/X7TYAsO9lWzItz4PZ6Ps5uMmZFNSqtT LYEyB2tDAP4711yjtWXpXb3TVt9WoL1ldmB4NYS+jN9kxfQtb6bcvNWpoDO/aAQvrGKb ZB1g0KEXFlH8GVBl3vosloRGlF/Euy0LseojZ66HyzV4Hugm/CwwPMSgi47kry54pGo/ g+BZ1XIuVI83S4ZvVo95oeTb90Splt+BCbYJEpi/i7lWHVZmLC4gT6GnzcR778ghXZ1g 6MYRHyakUNBQgvKpAwd15dKWgWB9V9ttWyJB0/8K1frIgcEVgESLbvL8hf9qG4LoSr/O QTGg== Received: by 10.224.184.82 with SMTP id cj18mr10242332qab.81.1339373060505; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.local (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fe8sm25431386qab.11.2012.06.10.17.04.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id D7D045277C4C; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:04:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:04:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 10 Jun 2012 23:59:02 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.0.94 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlERRrAQDmyIhq0x8NArrDFjiPIOqR4dnH9/VjEy28ZV6SKo2OMhXyeSfGxaybEudQIWKxx X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) on Sun Jun 10 2012, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dave Abrahams writes: > >> I find quite often that all of Gnu's many buffers are being created with >> a default-directory set to something that's either accessed via TRAMP or >> simply doesn't exist anymore. Either one will cause major problems, >> with things either getting crazy slow, or just not working anymore. I >> have no good ideas about how to track this down and fix it :-( but I >> thought you should have a report. > > Do you set `default-directory' or `gnus-default-directory' to something > explicitly? `M-x rgrep default-directory RET...' Looks like... nope. > I can't really imagine how Gnus would set the default directory in any > of its buffers to a TRAMP path by itself... I'm sure it doesn't do anything "by itself" :-). Maybe something changes the global definition of default-directory, or dynamic scoping is unexpectedly getting in the way. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 10 20:14:19 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2012 00:14:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37144 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SdsGw-0005AO-UD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:14:19 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:40158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SdsGu-0005AG-DP for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:14:17 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SdsEK-00049N-3I; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 02:11:36 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUAAADFj2E6GRSWXEXs z6ywe1ZvNirOonkeCw4HAgRBhwJqAAACU0lEQVQ4jW3TPcvqMBQH8Iw6BildJXJLXQ3J/QIF5xKi e8MTdCxPJas8F6Ru4nBpv+39nzRVh5vN/jw9LzllVTohVC03zYMx9pSNcGyGat8FbvQVcJP6E6r9 G2RZ/B/0G/YhhJZbvQb8/YBgpOUzLIToEwTjRaF4gmXfJ9hnuhyHTT3BOPT9cIvQ6qYfx5tK0OPH D8F+pYUQ5Y+rrd4C2IOgq0JrtPdoamMj0AGgzEziWOMLOyVnS4rIQ7B4rgIqUzY2yEakAXADqNGf tBMs8bxnNc+QQtaIvMwwoEOAld57BWln6J0umbUIEMI7lb/gKWXDlJG+QRvCqSzBCNgxRS9yRypA WXuIVS0owqK533GSyD2DkycClYcuYALIPsFSNCW7IK083U6/9FeH4Wwfae4EWqwX5R99Q/e2uc7Q at8UZzZs0OUxhNT6OFCOwu3uwwaXW4fLDCOzskGxqMAonofvuHERWoDKUSoGmVeX3XQdBMrglnC8 w7guZzZHBNliRTy1D8jWr4ggc+wCZlU43MnqE46oBSV7uhKzZo8ZNL1aalQQCMb7K4fioc0sPQZs hwn6CDgYYkVwKl9gFK7d8i5uvGnENUG3ohBb5zFERmARLtO7OCVpcc0TDBHqKDzEuqdhEWCp6HFm kUu7CPgSGP6FjykCbRK2IEVEiCG0wv4NeWtSEoB+wYgVjWVR83hOe5MilA0HRZVarCQW45zGy7zL D4raRgTuZfpAGEYpiuPhq4ubiC9xaiNG3AenixiCOYn+nr7BgV3ZM15rJukaWTrj+A/i+TkoTe2S PgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: repository's _Various_ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 02:11:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:04:22 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1SdsEK-00049N-3I X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1339978296.22192@ykSq9V1BqG8nOJn19JnnuQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Dave Abrahams writes: >> I can't really imagine how Gnus would set the default directory in any >> of its buffers to a TRAMP path by itself... > > I'm sure it doesn't do anything "by itself" :-). Maybe something > changes the global definition of default-directory, or dynamic scoping > is unexpectedly getting in the way. I see that all it takes is that you go to a tramp buffer and then say `M-x gnus' for all the Gnus process buffers to get that as the default directory. That's probably not very nice. But would binding `default-directory' to "/" (or something) for the Gnus process buffers be the right thing? Would that work? I have a feeling that this might be one of those "don't do that, then" things. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 10 21:51:22 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2012 01:51:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37182 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sdtmr-0000TX-QP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:51:22 -0400 Received: from mail-qa0-f44.google.com ([209.85.216.44]:55061) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sdtmp-0000TP-7T for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:51:20 -0400 Received: by qadz3 with SMTP id z3so2103194qad.3 for <11666@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:48:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=3v4WpItf5na/9KzKwup/FcwIPhHAwAPMp9dv9n+qwkI=; b=OujAP3SZc74P1aRSV6xHksE8RpOopVTBgnMB0xrhfmdMH9FhQpuOth/IEHLnRFl2NO xjSgJHoAjOaIBZVPsffjuYRnRGl1E+WLMfqbDhDs+e4j1vm35LQjjJUAKcv6iYTAcw/m teh10twK6G15CGgu2jZ28laf6ou2bdHV+FfQDo/s7UD23sHWxGy0Lbgf35fTOz+uwI6N VpZ9y6MF7WRV8ppcYW0LhyICctg6AZjkZlIrdFKuy6vPt9YzPZddupirRNLqa6BVvCIp cBmWdjHO7KdvapDWNvNgsc07nhV7eyYA9tks1V+Bh4e0hOAL+0YJ36+pySkKFQGTF61I uXcw== Received: by 10.224.182.72 with SMTP id cb8mr10602218qab.46.1339379324927; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gy5sm25919159qab.3.2012.06.10.18.48.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id A9C2E5278CDB; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:48:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:48:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2012 02:11:35 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.0.94 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnDvpYgwsdCIdMViOHSjoYy0RDBNrtEGxju97YGr7gcGXSNAlya1JEBglhnyLBwtlrm1fqX X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) on Sun Jun 10 2012, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dave Abrahams writes: > >>> I can't really imagine how Gnus would set the default directory in any >>> of its buffers to a TRAMP path by itself... >> >> I'm sure it doesn't do anything "by itself" :-). Maybe something >> changes the global definition of default-directory, or dynamic scoping >> is unexpectedly getting in the way. > > I see that all it takes is that you go to a tramp buffer and then say > `M-x gnus' for all the Gnus process buffers to get that as the default > directory. Sounds about right. > That's probably not very nice. Prolly not :-). I think there are also circumstances where gnus *acquires* some not-very-nice default-directory setting after it's already running. It's possible that just happens via `M-x gnus' when the *Group* buffer already exists --- I do that fairly often --- but I have the sense that it has happened via subtler means. > But would binding `default-directory' to "/" (or something) for the > Gnus process buffers be the right thing? Why not? > Would that work? I think so. How about binding it to something that is pretty much guaranteed to exist as long as Emacs is running, say, the user's home directory or user-emacs-directory? > I have a feeling that this might be one of those "don't do that, then" > things. That'd be a shame; it bites me all the time. I can't see any reason not to eliminate pitfalls for the unwary user. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 10 22:11:12 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2012 02:11:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37189 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sdu63-0000uK-H1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 22:11:12 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:48934) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sdu5x-0000u9-Sv for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 22:11:08 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sdu3M-0005se-2Q; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 04:08:24 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEVwWTrc1reZg2H////+ //5TMyGNp+mDAAACYklEQVQ4jVWUTXLkIAyFhSraG+LeC1U4QJd9gLjt2aup4f5XmQd2Jz2UFzYf 6OdJMt0j1oJ1xJjisYwV40zn27JuiYmI4z4OHfsLbEYsWty+ro0LbErVGhV2nt/Bmkib1uaVJexv 4FG4GbfKJC7xF6xKzaUmE2cq4fMHPKQomZVq8FNl3i+wpuCt5lQ1x1KlhRe4F2G2SHminLRWmi/w 4MpTtMkMOFOlrxOsU639QkimHhOJ2n4CvUni7CnDd7JMzp8D3JnUxEL8/ohqnkqhEzwIIYnF9Oev JeVU5PYxQOqiRktsGf5jVPHcwToRwXrG2VwYgeFWGEALYTeKwHcz5Q3e9wEEciA5J0LWCUcUYdFy R66aYFmrUKOYA8o1AHktNRtknRx3NRShAeCQbX6ou0i1Bz5IT8D8tBL0iaJzjnFSOX0YbDEMfEib 6s21tNJOH88a4gy9nRXhxcnaMLWaPwvnXFrFYw9lvaIyrRPShYwTn1HxiKonmDTDozR4i5wLjRsr Ds8akLl58zwh81KHJFO5RSNonLpkxEl9gAXqohhQD50A4WPyU91lY6uoQrIULCLe4hKWtVcQkuQS cvz+i4vNStGvAe6saiWjijkqaiyCcqyjfW6KhN2wJCdzh4sO+tBQjjZWTqXp/ALIDjsQCuIahmG/ wKoW3OaCsh5J3HuHDrBgMAgR9zGQ1pt9v8Cmho7NaJ3WGo+5OcGKtu1D2Ki1Oh+/oHtBOzYhIcz+ O0gauhlRWo/9DYBYxYASveb/+PllJMXgtufr8wfgHwNbvF/7b2CYm38ubB3sy/9rPY5j+wfc+aqn i5Zm/AAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Skull Defekts's _Peer Amid_: "Join the Trie" Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 04:08:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:48:42 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Sdu3M-0005se-2Q X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1339985304.33924@zuvOCabaot+ScmZyq+tVSw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Dave Abrahams writes: >> But would binding `default-directory' to "/" (or something) for the >> Gnus process buffers be the right thing? > > Why not? I was wondering whether that would bug out on some OS-es... > I think so. How about binding it to something that is pretty much > guaranteed to exist as long as Emacs is running, say, the user's home > directory or user-emacs-directory? I could imagine that "~" wouldn't be useful on some OS-es? But `user-emacs-directory' would probably be safe? I also wonder what buffers would need to have `default-directory' set locally. The nntp and nnimap server buffers; sure. But what about the smtpmail buffer, for instance? Is this a problem that should be solved globally in Emacs, somehow? Come to think of it, what is really the real problem? :-) What is it that makes `default-directory' make any difference when opening a network connection? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 12 10:35:55 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jun 2012 14:35:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SeSCH-00016B-Io for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:35:55 -0400 Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com ([209.85.216.172]:46075) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SeSCB-00015y-BN for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:35:52 -0400 Received: by qcsq13 with SMTP id q13so249884qcs.3 for <11666@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:33:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=IuxQQSOSHOK+3tg/FdbSnoFAIv0Zi4sOc5fNylqd2OU=; b=kMxKVdq7oP3skSl5Ui5re4ZZXJoFfVmeVn4jmL3k7Mx6tKHPlTOWLG0TWOD3ws0ZVu +1asPM0rwI1/IJWESeZ05W6zaXFLch0Xb2/MxEZUQ5aNUYZIRdwaZoc/tMQIYuQGL8AP eYzBsWzFJrybxXQ2dnySgZQjx9/oNKHQS4zZDmRBTqStXVwr42/yVSFF0QfxNag/SsCA hItmGEhfkDeCh2s/9Zhuf26EilYNx+1n5jbPSuDyUKW41r2Wu28KZhT3DUqYO818OcNN 149clG/Okesk0SLRiKS614njU7hIp0E5U7SZf7NJdg2lE1DLc2mjh8XTHbBTM4cZa3NL QT/g== Received: by 10.229.111.210 with SMTP id t18mr3857313qcp.108.1339511584411; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dr1sm3590096qab.2.2012.06.12.07.33.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id 55503529A457; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:33:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:33:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2012 04:08:23 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.0.94 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnlzFHPB6WesGUvCLiRPM3OTaI9Fg8KMi+kzslu3EKmRD3B3y5m9m1Ils7cC/3tNaCpiC3M X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) on Sun Jun 10 2012, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dave Abrahams writes: > >>> But would binding `default-directory' to "/" (or something) for the >>> Gnus process buffers be the right thing? >> >> Why not? > > I was wondering whether that would bug out on some OS-es... I suppose it's possible that on Windows the whole "current drive" disappears, so "/" is just as incorrect as anything else... >> I think so. How about binding it to something that is pretty much >> guaranteed to exist as long as Emacs is running, say, the user's home >> directory or user-emacs-directory? > > I could imagine that "~" wouldn't be useful on some OS-es? Right, I meant ``the local equivalent of "~"'' > But `user-emacs-directory' would probably be safe? Probably. > I also wonder what buffers would need to have `default-directory' set > locally. The nntp and nnimap server buffers; sure. But what about the > smtpmail buffer, for instance? I dunno. > Is this a problem that should be solved globally in Emacs, somehow? Dunno again. It's something that comes up for me with Gnus far, far more often than with anything else I'm doing in Emacs... so solving it in Emacs might be even more of an uphill battle than solving it in Gnus is. > Come to think of it, what is really the real problem? :-) What is it > that makes `default-directory' make any difference when opening a > network connection? Great questions. Dunno #3. I just know it makes my life miserable :-) -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 27 11:49:23 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2012 15:49:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44267 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sumn4-0002Cg-PD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:49:23 -0400 Received: from mail-vb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.212.44]:38607) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sumn3-0002Ca-7P for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:49:21 -0400 Received: by vbbez10 with SMTP id ez10so3501109vbb.3 for <11666@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:42:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=1qMVMCJqPtUr0LX5jf0L7khjic2bAU1AK5FQ4hrw/nw=; b=KPVY2fwld+9lOHlpBjINr/L79jW1nhQPL0sVodHHWbwG9QrH7sQMKcjVP2k5oXQSSE +cHEVHpvbOTwy4MOVYOWPSSrCa49YHSKeLr/IKVmSdwbSBvAwnuVOHSzL0RI6oJlMAw1 IQR3UliGLWKk3aNGVs5BQhQl20KotzzIjt2sTfqle6PzX9nq+WXqQtjId0jkmmflIzhF k/xjZoiLK/fGV0Q5LygUqVo0SDPjvfQDdmibo7iXJkA6V7N+2sodC305Uw0/j4XVdxfW QmGeSsIoek6zhsZZUqBjRuZq/XDvIlxRGFfG2vROa7fkj7FVTjrBuml3UIh0u1jhVExh 4vXQ== Received: by 10.220.219.140 with SMTP id hu12mr2811772vcb.72.1343403743293; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g10sm2215727vdk.2.2012.07.27.08.42.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id 689D85D22B42; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:42:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:42:20 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:33:00 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkl31FbBCSL5idfXTxAH7GlL53Zv9XnTY3Wmh0oRHnRE8StIfL2Q/iXaMw3eI5HZ0Ek9URy X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) For what it's worth, customizing gnus-default-directory to "~" makes this problem go away for me. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing Software Development Training http://www.boostpro.com Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers C++ Boost From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 05 14:36:32 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2012 18:36:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9KSl-00042e-Fi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 14:36:32 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:40558) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9KSf-00042R-Vx for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 14:36:29 -0400 Received: from ip-200-13-149-91.dialup.ice.net ([91.149.13.200] helo=rusty) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9KSO-0002VU-0o; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 20:36:08 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: X-Now-Playing: Isotope 217's _The Unstable Molecule_ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 20:36:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2012 02:11:35 +0200") Message-ID: <87k3w8s4fg.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1T9KSO-0002VU-0o X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1347474968.9302@O59DFQGP95de5w8Lj46jpw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > That's probably not very nice. But would binding `default-directory' to > "/" (or something) for the Gnus process buffers be the right thing? > Would that work? > > I have a feeling that this might be one of those "don't do that, then" > things. And I think that's the case. The expected thing for Emacs things is that you get the current default directory when you start stuff. Like if you say `M-x shell'. It would be odd if Gnus did something else here. So I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 05 14:36:37 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2012 18:36:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40970 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9KSr-00042u-7W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 14:36:37 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:36198) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9KSp-00042o-Es for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 14:36:35 -0400 Received: from ip-200-13-149-91.dialup.ice.net ([91.149.13.200] helo=rusty) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9KSY-0002Vk-9B for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 20:36:18 +0200 Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 20:36:15 +0200 Message-Id: <87ipbss4f4.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #11666 X-MailScanner-ID: 1T9KSY-0002Vk-9B X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1347474978.95848@zMAYXVP2dafJivEf+Mq23w X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) tags 11666 wontfix close 11666 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 05 15:54:42 2012 Received: (at 11666) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2012 19:54:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41199 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9LgO-0001q6-Pr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:54:42 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:64191) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9LgJ-0001pw-J9 for 11666@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:54:39 -0400 Received: by pbbrr4 with SMTP id rr4so1493070pbb.3 for <11666@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=6NDWNiQYI+gpLYV0wMqDf+BoQOrcJeEMWgH1zEY8kWk=; b=VlIu+zn5dzh0AxR+z5Oyg1FZmJYsKspcYWDkkEgGjZ/HeBUztwj0nx/NAhcHIR37QQ eXrQQSCy3C4hdieZBFufjKgrMd2stiRrankikTUummgB2/mrtM3N6rTuvYxIImre+teL c3/tsb01g0GIr+0CmbVxst6E+3wjVBRNbrdq1scqrZUfHfUtUIvsSevGCdZOcg2zeYu0 BdrRNdG/SZuDBCZLC6wNbC5Yl+4mu5YCzuBE4qrMD5SiTBsapcDCTllzMPq16G6fX2Dz qcyJAmsOClC9TG7TqH6t904T5oDKCkM0k2/G/PnWJ6q5At7LdgUBI3mt/24Ig7OgaLwL C82A== Received: by 10.66.87.138 with SMTP id ay10mr50984019pab.38.1346874866882; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.local (96-41-170-122.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com. [96.41.170.122]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id uj3sm41118pbc.39.2012.09.05.12.54.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 05 Sep 2012 12:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3B56C614E506; Wed, 5 Sep 2012 12:54:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#11666: default-directory References: <87k3w8s4fg.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 12:54:23 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87k3w8s4fg.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 05 Sep 2012 20:36:03 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmzk4BtmMupm88E+EWaqpOyV3Fb62+88B9PldQauCUxysC7i6eNi3l8/ploqcS6CoUFcMU9 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11666 Cc: 11666@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) on Wed Sep 05 2012, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > >> That's probably not very nice. But would binding `default-directory' to >> "/" (or something) for the Gnus process buffers be the right thing? >> Would that work? >> >> I have a feeling that this might be one of those "don't do that, then" >> things. > > And I think that's the case. The expected thing for Emacs things is > that you get the current default directory when you start stuff. Like > if you say `M-x shell'. It would be odd if Gnus did something else > here. > > So I'm closing this bug report. Well, that's your perogative of course. From my personal experience, the pain caused by Gnus inadvertently started in a TRAMP directory (and I think it can get switched somehow to using a TRAMP directory even if it isn't started there) is massive, easy to achieve, and very hard to understand, while customizing `gnus-default-directory' to "~" is painless. I have never wished for my mail/news reader to hold onto some other directory as its default, and since I've made the customization, the problem hasn't returned. While this can't be called a bug, I think it would be a service to your users if you'd protect them from this problem by changing the default for `gnus-default-directory', even if it causes some small apparent inconsistency with the way the rest of Emacs works. BTW, if you get yourself in this situation, IIRC, you can't even quit Gnus. Anyway, more than 'nuff said. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing Software Development Training http://www.boostpro.com Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers C++ Boost From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:32:38 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator