From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 26 18:31:07 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 May 2012 22:31:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44545 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SYPVq-0000eD-MA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2012 18:31:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:43173 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SYPVn-0000e5-O0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 May 2012 18:31:05 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SYPUg-0003yF-DJ; Sat, 26 May 2012 18:29:54 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: delayed init variables don't get documentation properties X-Spook: subversive clandestine JPL White House KGB EuroFed X-Ran: ^GXH!Ig*:i6Ccz>l}YD8h?NDM4C?vKE3Mzm8t'!.W1x#i&fR%'`HuzyCJN#4}zQx{H>5@+ X-Hue: red X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 18:29:54 -0400 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Package: emacs Version: 24.1.50 Current trunk: emacs -Q C-h v Info-default-directory-list -> Not documented as a variable. The doc string is in the DOC file though. I think this is because: 1) it's a preloaded defcustom using custom-initialize-delay 2) custom-initialize-delay keeps variables unbound until they are initialized. There's a comment about this in the source: "This seemed to be at least as good as setting it to an arbitrary value like nil". 3) Snarf-documentation (semi-recently; bug#11036) ignores unbound variables, on the assumption that they are for other platforms (eg w32-specific). I guess either we undo 3), or change 2) so that it sets the variable to nil. The latter seems ok to me ...? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 27 09:01:43 2012 Received: (at 11565) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2012 13:01:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45339 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SYd6M-00057q-HF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2012 09:01:43 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:47268) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SYd61-00057I-Ut for 11565@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2012 09:01:40 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAG6Zu09MCpYd/2dsb2JhbABEtBGBCIIVAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgcBboJkEQDozOBWIMF X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="182872054" Received: from 76-10-150-29.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.150.29]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 27 May 2012 09:00:04 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id BCA7458EC1; Sun, 27 May 2012 09:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#11565: delayed init variables don't get documentation properties Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 09:00:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sat, 26 May 2012 18:29:54 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11565 Cc: 11565@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > I guess either we undo 3), or change 2) so that it sets the variable to > nil. The latter seems ok to me ...? Undoing the var-part of 3 sounds fine to me. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 28 15:54:51 2012 Received: (at 11565) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2012 19:54:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZ61j-0007UQ-Dt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 May 2012 15:54:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:57187 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZ61h-0007UJ-PK for 11565@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 May 2012 15:54:50 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SZ60P-0000Mn-ON; Mon, 28 May 2012 15:53:29 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#11565: delayed init variables don't get documentation properties References: X-Spook: BRLO Arnett Attorney General SAFE Exon Shell Syria Freeh X-Ran: cU*W1ruku7ql^#:q?ZQIDN1!+"zT'IW?c?,w'ja>#h.WtU=Cl7KHUh}$F},hVM2tSw;QT( X-Hue: white X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 15:53:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 27 May 2012 09:00:03 -0400") Message-ID: <874nr09j5y.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11565 Cc: 11565@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Stefan Monnier wrote: >> I guess either we undo 3), or change 2) so that it sets the variable to >> nil. The latter seems ok to me ...? > > Undoing the var-part of 3 sounds fine to me. There's a downside to doing that, in that bug#11036 will be reopened. What's the downside to making custom-initialize-delay temporarily bind variables to nil? Another option: Snarf-documentation to check if variables are bound, or members of custom-delayed-init-variables. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 28 15:58:32 2012 Received: (at 11565) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2012 19:58:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47055 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZ65H-0007Za-TC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 May 2012 15:58:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:57243 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZ64y-0007ZA-64 for 11565@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 May 2012 15:58:31 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SZ63g-0005CM-21; Mon, 28 May 2012 15:56:52 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#11565: delayed init variables don't get documentation properties References: <874nr09j5y.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Blowfish Ft. Bragg corporate security BROMURE Serbian X-Ran: EU~.kcTm'L*Q",%0L$i:1;gQ'4.6nCV?9OTXgJ|>w575lz+G]F_vqu (Glenn Morris's message of "Mon, 28 May 2012 15:53:29 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11565 Cc: 11565@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) PS this issue will presumably go away if you go through with http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-05/msg00474.html and stop keeping the docs of preloaded lisp files in DOC. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 28 16:29:24 2012 Received: (at 11565) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2012 20:29:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47061 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZ6Z9-0000cO-Mf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 May 2012 16:29:23 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:56186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZ6Yp-0000bw-26 for 11565@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 May 2012 16:29:22 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q4SKRhIc015771; Mon, 28 May 2012 16:27:43 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D125EB4191; Mon, 28 May 2012 16:27:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#11565: delayed init variables don't get documentation properties Message-ID: References: <874nr09j5y.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 16:27:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: <874nr09j5y.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Mon, 28 May 2012 15:53:29 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4235=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4235> : streams <761746> : uri <1120568> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11565 Cc: 11565@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) >>> I guess either we undo 3), or change 2) so that it sets the variable to >>> nil. The latter seems ok to me ...? >> Undoing the var-part of 3 sounds fine to me. > There's a downside to doing that, in that bug#11036 will be reopened. It doesn't strike me as a serious problem. > What's the downside to making custom-initialize-delay temporarily bind > variables to nil? The downside is that I don't know the consequences ;-) > Another option: Snarf-documentation to check if variables are bound, or > members of custom-delayed-init-variables. Yuck. > PS this issue will presumably go away if you go through with > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-05/msg00474.html That's likely to happen, indeed. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 27 21:00:41 2014 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Feb 2014 02:00:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43293 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WJCkh-0006Uc-Og for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 21:00:40 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:49651) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WJCke-0006UQ-KJ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 21:00:37 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WJCke-000892-2v for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 21:00:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 21:00:36 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 11565 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) close 11565 24.4 From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:15:25 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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