From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 19:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.133710875410542 (code B ref -1); Tue, 15 May 2012 19:06:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2012 19:05:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56474 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUN4D-0002jy-6f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43032) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUN4A-0002jh-Lx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SUN3v-0005dV-Fk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:39 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:39532) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SUN3v-0005dR-Ci for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60221) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SUN3q-00031x-Hv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SUN3o-0005d1-7e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:29 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:32398) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SUN3o-0005cu-20 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:28 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q4FJ5NJd024947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 15 May 2012 19:05:24 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q4FJ5Nsj010028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 15 May 2012 19:05:23 GMT Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q4FJ5NKV017344 for ; Tue, 15 May 2012 14:05:23 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.175.213) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 15 May 2012 12:05:23 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:05:19 -0700 Message-ID: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac0yzauRX1aIeLKuTZCshrHgQkmqIA== X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) An Icicles user just brought to my attention the fact that Gnus binds `M-s' to a command (`gnus-summary-search-article-forward', IIUC). This conflicts with a default Icicles setting, but that's no big deal because it is easy for users to customize this. By default, Icicles uses `M-s M-s' as a prefix key for Icicles search. My understanding was that `M-s' is now pretty much reserved as a prefix key for search. For example: `M-s w' and the Dired search keys, which all use prefix key `M-s f'. My thinking for defining `M-s M-s' as an Icicles search prefix key was (a) `M-s' is a prefix key for Emacs search generally, and (b) I did not find any conflicts for `M-s M-s' on the `M-s' prefix key. But if Gnus binds `M-s' to a command, that conflicts with the general use of `M-s' as a prefix key (for search). That is the bug: Gnus should not bind `M-s' to a command. `M-s' should remain a prefix key (for search). Presumably, in the context where `M-s' is bound to a Gnus command it is unavailable for use by Isearch etc. Even for Gnus users of vanilla Emacs, I would think that this would be a loss. In GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-04-28 on MARVIN Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include' From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 19:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.133711181818428 (code B ref 11482); Tue, 15 May 2012 19:57:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2012 19:56:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56601 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUNrd-0004nB-Rn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:56:58 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:46996 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUNra-0004n2-K8 for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:56:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76733451C1DD; Tue, 15 May 2012 12:56:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov Organization: JURTA References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 22:55:29 +0300 In-Reply-To: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 15 May 2012 12:05:19 -0700") Message-ID: <873971gqxa.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > But if Gnus binds `M-s' to a command, that conflicts with the general > use of `M-s' as a prefix key (for search). That is the bug: Gnus should > not bind `M-s' to a command. `M-s' should remain a prefix key (for > search). Gnus could bind `gnus-summary-search-article-forward' to `M-s M-s'. It is still easy to type. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 20:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Juri Linkov'" Cc: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.133711365621389 (code B ref 11482); Tue, 15 May 2012 20:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2012 20:27:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56681 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUOLI-0005Yw-BE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 16:27:36 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:18378) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUOLG-0005Yk-Ux for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 May 2012 16:27:35 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q4FKRM41000800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2012 20:27:23 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q4FKRLG0008005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 15 May 2012 20:27:22 GMT Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q4FKRLYC026036; Tue, 15 May 2012 15:27:21 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.175.213) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 15 May 2012 13:27:21 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <873971gqxa.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:27:17 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <873971gqxa.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac0y1N0/OwLxfUlURS6HmJNogwGXbQAA+ikQ X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > But if Gnus binds `M-s' to a command, that conflicts with > > the general use of `M-s' as a prefix key (for search). > > That is the bug: Gnus should not bind `M-s' to a command. > > `M-s' should remain a prefix key (for search). > > Gnus could bind `gnus-summary-search-article-forward' to `M-s M-s'. > It is still easy to type. Obviously not what I was hoping for, since, as I say, Icicles uses `M-s M-s' as a prefix key for all of its many (Icicles) search commands. But it does satisfy the bug report, at least: it does not make `M-s' a simple command binding. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 00:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.13372137216360 (code B ref 11482); Thu, 17 May 2012 00:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2012 00:15:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58285 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUoNF-0001eX-Ci for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 16 May 2012 20:15:21 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:60583 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUoND-0001eP-1s for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 16 May 2012 20:15:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B11E451C8E3; Wed, 16 May 2012 17:15:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov Organization: JURTA References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <873971gqxa.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 03:14:15 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 15 May 2012 13:27:17 -0700") Message-ID: <87r4ujwtns.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> > But if Gnus binds `M-s' to a command, that conflicts with >> > the general use of `M-s' as a prefix key (for search). >> > That is the bug: Gnus should not bind `M-s' to a command. >> > `M-s' should remain a prefix key (for search). >> >> Gnus could bind `gnus-summary-search-article-forward' to `M-s M-s'. >> It is still easy to type. > > Obviously not what I was hoping for, since, as I say, Icicles uses `M-s M-s' as > a prefix key for all of its many (Icicles) search commands. For Icicles you could use a key prefix with Icicles specific mnemonics like `M-s I'. > But it does satisfy the bug report, at least: it does not make `M-s' a simple > command binding. There are more currently conflicting modes listed in admin/FOR-RELEASE: ** Check for modes which bind M-s that conflicts with a new global binding M-s and change key bindings where necessary. The current list of modes: 1. Gnus binds `M-s' to `gnus-summary-search-article-forward'. 2. Minibuffer binds `M-s' to `next-matching-history-element' (not useful any more since C-s can now search in the history). 3. `center-line' in Text mode was already moved to the text formatting keymap as `M-o M-s' (thus this binding is not necessary any more in `nroff-mode-map' too and can be removed now from the nroff mode because it can now use the global key binding `M-o M-s' `center-line'). 4. PCL-CVS binds `M-s' to `cvs-status', and log-edit-mode binds it to `log-edit-comment-search-forward'. Perhaps search commands on the global key binding `M-s' are useless in these modes. 5. Rmail binds `\es' to `rmail-search'/`rmail-summary-search'. (If this problem is not release-critical then it should be removed from admin/FOR-RELEASE. It is recorded now here in bug#11482.) Like the proposed keybinding `M-s M-s' for Gnus, the minibuffer could rebind `next-matching-history-element' to `M-s M-s'. And perhaps Shell could bind `comint-history-isearch-forward-regexp' to `M-s M-s' as well. However, I have doubts about rebinding `rmail-search' to `M-s M-s' because of the comment in rmail.el: ;; I find I can't live without the default M-r command -- rms. Does this statement apply to `M-s' too? From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 04:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Juri Linkov'" Cc: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.13372299184412 (code B ref 11482); Thu, 17 May 2012 04:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2012 04:45:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58476 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUsaT-000197-BU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 May 2012 00:45:17 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:27355) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SUsaP-00018r-Uy for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 May 2012 00:45:15 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q4H4is6N004525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2012 04:44:54 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q4H4irCl027958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 17 May 2012 04:44:53 GMT Received: from abhmt105.oracle.com (abhmt105.oracle.com [141.146.116.57]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q4H4ir91026115; Wed, 16 May 2012 23:44:53 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.173.230) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 16 May 2012 21:44:53 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com><873971gqxa.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87r4ujwtns.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 21:44:50 -0700 Message-ID: <13DA3910F36D4757A1E991A5FC9632CE@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87r4ujwtns.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Ac0zwh3JgINJheVSRyWpvI55rZ+LQgAIMBgw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > >> Gnus could bind `gnus-summary-search-article-forward' to `M-s M-s'. > >> It is still easy to type. > > > > Obviously not what I was hoping for, since, as I say, > > Icicles uses `M-s M-s' as a prefix key for all of its many > > (Icicles) search commands. > > For Icicles you could use a key prefix with Icicles specific > mnemonics like `M-s I'. Certainly I could. But `M-s M-s' is a _lot_ more convenient for a prefix key than is fiddling around with first Meta then Shift (then...). Which is why I chose it. As I said, there are a lot of Icicles search keys on that prefix. Here's a taste: M-s M-s C-l icicle-search-pages M-s M-s , icicle-tags-search M-s M-s D icicle-search-defs-full M-s M-s I icicle-imenu-full M-s M-s J icicle-search-bookmarks-together M-s M-s O icicle-search-overlay-property M-s M-s T icicle-search-text-property M-s M-s X icicle-search-xml-element-text-node M-s M-s b icicle-search-buffer M-s M-s c icicle-search-char-property M-s M-s d icicle-search-defs M-s M-s f icicle-search-file M-s M-s i icicle-imenu M-s M-s j icicle-search-bookmark M-s M-s k icicle-search-keywords M-s M-s l icicle-search-lines M-s M-s o icicle-occur M-s M-s p icicle-search-paragraphs M-s M-s s icicle-search-sentences M-s M-s t icicle-search-thing M-s M-s w icicle-search-word M-s M-s x icicle-search-xml-element M-s M-s M-s icicle-search-generic Plus `M-s M-s m', which is a mode-specific Icicles search. For example, in Dired mode it searches the marked files, including those (marked in other Dired buffers) in the marked subdirs, recursively. In the `*Bookmark List*' it searches the targets of the marked bookmarks. In Ibuffer mode it searches the marked buffers. And so on. That's a pretty good use of `M-s M-s' as a prefix key, I think. IOW, there are not just one or two keys on the prefix. And Icicles was first! ;-) Certainly there is nothing special about Gnus, that it should get awarded the `M-s M-s' prize... Anyway, I'd probably sooner keep `M-s M-s' as the default value of the prefix key for Icicles users. As I said, it's very easy for a user to customize the existing option to change the prefix key if need be. And it's not clear that most Icicles users will use Gnus anyway. ;-) > > But it does satisfy the bug report, at least: it does not > > make `M-s' a simple command binding. > > There are more currently conflicting modes listed in > admin/FOR-RELEASE: > > ** Check for modes which bind M-s that conflicts with a new > global binding M-s and change key bindings where necessary. > The current list of modes: > > 2. Minibuffer binds `M-s' to `next-matching-history-element' > (not useful any more since C-s can now search in the history). I don't see #2 as a problem at all. We're talking top-level bindings, or should be. The only possible conflict for #2 is wrt Isearch in the minibuffer. I don't think that should be a criterion here. The others you mention are all conflicts of the same sort as Gnus, and should, IMO, be changed from `M-s' to something else. > Like the proposed keybinding `M-s M-s' for Gnus, Which I am not in favor of... I mention it as an existing conflict and suddenly it's a proposal for Gnus? > the minibuffer could rebind `next-matching-history-element' > to `M-s M-s'. There is no need to rebind the minibuffer's current use of `M-s', IMO. > And perhaps Shell could bind `comint-history-isearch-forward-regexp' to `M-s > M-s' as well. So now you want to completely appropriate the key I complained about Gnus conflicting with, creating even more conflicts for Icicles? Gee, thanks. I suppose I should take comfort in the adage that imitation is a form of flattery. But I would prefer that Emacs just leave `M-s M-s' well enough alone. > However, I have doubts about rebinding `rmail-search' to `M-s M-s'... I suggest to leave `M-s M-s' alone - no default binding, and just take care of this bug, which is about NOT binding commands to `M-s', now that it is a prefix key for search. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 15:24:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Juri Linkov'" Cc: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.1337268226532 (code B ref 11482); Thu, 17 May 2012 15:24:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2012 15:23:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59473 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SV2YL-00008X-Gq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:23:45 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:24512) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SV2YI-00008J-VI for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 May 2012 11:23:43 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q4HFNJ2e023359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2012 15:23:20 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q4HFNJ50025073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 17 May 2012 15:23:19 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q4HFNIRU007084; Thu, 17 May 2012 10:23:18 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 17 May 2012 08:23:18 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com><873971gqxa.fsf@mail.jurta.org><87r4ujwtns.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <13DA3910F36D4757A1E991A5FC9632CE@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 08:23:17 -0700 Message-ID: <2456A4A100C4420D82A1EEA2974EFFCA@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <13DA3910F36D4757A1E991A5FC9632CE@us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: Ac0zwh3JgINJheVSRyWpvI55rZ+LQgAIMBgwABdMyrA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > And Icicles was first! ;-) Certainly there is nothing > special about Gnus, that it should get awarded the `M-s M-s' prize... > > Anyway, I'd probably sooner keep `M-s M-s' as the default > value of the prefix key for Icicles users. As I said, it's very > easy for a user to customize the existing option to change the > prefix key if need be. And it's not clear that > most Icicles users will use Gnus anyway. ;-) FWIW, I might mention too that the Icicles + Gnus user who reported the conflict chose to change the Gnus keybinding when I suggested he do one of the following: >> Aside from learning about that conflict, here is how to remove >> the conflict - you can do either of these: >> >> * Customize option `icicle-search-key-prefix', so that it is no >> longer `M-s M-s'. >> >> * Change the binding of `gnus-summary-search-article-forward' >> in `gnus-summary-mode-map' so that it is no longer `M-s'. > > I think I will go with the latter, although I'm not sure what > to bind it to. Your bug report below will hopefully alert Gnus > developers to come up with something more sensible. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2014 04:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.139191906731565 (code B ref 11482); Sun, 09 Feb 2014 04:12:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2014 04:11:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58763 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLjX-0008D3-0O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:11:07 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:37351) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLjV-0008Ct-BS for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:11:05 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WCLjH-00055o-4E; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 05:10:51 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 20:09:40 -0800 In-Reply-To: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 15 May 2012 12:05:19 -0700") Message-ID: <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1WCLjH-00055o-4E X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392523851.93012@VVVjvYiAodk32ShxWtGM6w X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) "Drew Adams" writes: > An Icicles user just brought to my attention the fact that Gnus binds > `M-s' to a command (`gnus-summary-search-article-forward', IIUC). > > This conflicts with a default Icicles setting, but that's no big deal > because it is easy for users to customize this. By default, Icicles > uses `M-s M-s' as a prefix key for Icicles search. What are Icicles searches used for? That is, is it likely that a user would issue that command in the Gnus summary buffer? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:52:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.139207271920079 (code B ref 11482); Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:52:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2014 22:51:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCzhm-0005Dn-Hf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:51:58 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:18178) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCzhk-0005DX-9I for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:51:56 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s1AMpnnq029979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:51:50 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s1AMpnQS007525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:51:49 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s1AMpmTO008876; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:51:48 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8fb15675-f554-4196-aa39-0511aac5f10d@default> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:51:48 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > What are Icicles searches used for? That is, is it likely that a > user would issue that command in the Gnus summary buffer? The same thing Isearch is used for. Yes, I don't see why not. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Drew Adams , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.139221463431997 (code B ref 11482); Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:18:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2014 14:17:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48404 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WDacf-0008Jt-JO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:17:13 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:64166) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WDacY-0008JC-On for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:17:07 -0500 Received: from drachen.dragon ([90.186.155.199]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb004) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LdrkJ-1VUfEC0weB-00j3DN for <11482@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:16:56 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:16:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 08 Feb 2014 20:09:40 -0800") Message-ID: <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:tclpRBRonCCZD1yuz6ZIAyS/BVWwmA1EEcd4KDXatKpEh5PNRnL G804h87gQh0DJPgioIQ43dQ66BtaqQh9dkPc7wdRUlojSeNG705RoV69VOz55m2NcFBcJPi ns0kOeez9g2qf95IzKA+q4KLtVvxY6LPJbeLeGAT+ABVk9W8PgP6ZdyMLMU5I5TvxDflEFA YETdkZXzFpZrIcFXR21bw== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > What are Icicles searches used for? That is, is it likely that a user > would issue that command in the Gnus summary buffer? Not being able to perform Icicle search was not the problem, it is a problem the other way round: Icicles' binding is a minor mode binding, thus shadowing the Gnus M-s binding, which is really important. That's the problem. Without a keybinding, it is also harder to find, e.g. with C-h b etc. I had suggested to Lars to change the Gnuish binding, but he didn't want to. That Gnus shadows the global M-s binding is another issue. But since Gnus replaces it with a search command suitable for searching articles, it's IMHO not really a problem. AFAIK, only the summary buffer is affected by the M-s binding, and there, "normal" searching is rarely needed. The clash of M-s prefix with Icicles' search binding is a third issue. But I guess we have to live with that. Regards, Michael. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 07:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: Drew Adams , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145482873229120 (code B ref 11482); Sun, 07 Feb 2016 07:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2016 07:05:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36414 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSJPY-0007Zc-72 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 02:05:32 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:52588) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSJPW-0007ZU-6O for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 02:05:30 -0500 Received: from cpe-60-225-211-161.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([60.225.211.161] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aSJP8-0006Vh-D4; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 08:05:07 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 18:05:01 +1100 In-Reply-To: <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:16:53 +0100") Message-ID: <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1aSJP8-0006Vh-D4 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1455433507.14739@WEd+jCONvvxd3Uocag0oXg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Michael Heerdegen writes: > Not being able to perform Icicle search was not the problem, it is a > problem the other way round: Icicles' binding is a minor mode binding, > thus shadowing the Gnus M-s binding, which is really important. That's > the problem. Without a keybinding, it is also harder to find, e.g. with > C-h b etc. I had suggested to Lars to change the Gnuish binding, but he > didn't want to. Well, icicles is a third-party library, so I think it's icicle's responsibility to not step on major mode bindings. So I don't think there's anything here to be fixed in Emacs, and I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 07 02:05:39 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2016 07:05:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36417 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSJPf-0007Zz-Dd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 02:05:39 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:52594) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSJPd-0007Zq-CB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 02:05:37 -0500 Received: from cpe-60-225-211-161.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([60.225.211.161] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aSJPG-0006Vw-Mf for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 08:05:15 +0100 Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 18:05:11 +1100 Message-Id: <874mdl9f14.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #11482 X-MailScanner-ID: 1aSJPG-0006Vw-Mf X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1455433515.61995@O2FGzrGDmdyZr9xeQQ85cQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tags 11482 wontfix close 11482 From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 08:04:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Michael Heerdegen Cc: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.14548322338249 (code B ref 11482); Sun, 07 Feb 2016 08:04:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2016 08:03:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSKK1-00028z-3J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 03:03:53 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24429) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSKK0-00028m-72 for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 03:03:52 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u1783jpS030815 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 7 Feb 2016 08:03:46 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1783je4018349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Feb 2016 08:03:45 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1783iO4005411; Sun, 7 Feb 2016 08:03:45 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 00:03:43 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) > > I had suggested to Lars to change the Gnuish binding, but he > > didn't want to. And AFAICT, Lars never even gave a reason, let alone a good reason. > Well, icicles is a third-party library, so I think it's icicle's > responsibility to not step on major mode bindings. So I don't think > there's anything here to be fixed in Emacs, and I'm closing this bug > report. It is you, Lars, who stepped on existing keybindings (first Isearch and then Icicles). Icicles has lots of keys bound on the prefix key M-s M-s, and has had for a long time before you decided to appropriate it (when it was pointed out that M-s is for Isearch). The Gnus binding for M-s M-s is not even a prefix key. Who's hogging keys, here? M-s M-s makes sense as a prefix key. For a single command there is no need for a quick double key like that, but there is for a prefix to another key. If Gnus, like Icicles, had many keys that it wanted to put on prefix M-s M-s then you might have an argument, at least, but that's not even the case. Icicle mode is a global minor mode. If Gnus is stubborn about keeping M-s M-s for its single command then an Icicles user of Gnus can always customize the prefix key used for the Icicles search commands. Or s?he can toggle Icicle mode off. S?he shouldn't have to do either, but so be it. As I said before: I mention it as an existing conflict and suddenly it's a proposal for Gnus? So now you want to completely appropriate the key I complained about Gnus conflicting with, creating even more conflicts for Icicles? Gee, thanks. First, Gnus tried to appropriate M-s from Isearch. When that grab was exposed, Gnus appropriated M-s M-s, which is a prefix key for Icicles, even though that too was pointed out. Gee, thanks, indeed. You're not very cooperative, Mr Ingebrigtsen. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 16:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Drew Adams Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: John Wiegley Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.14548636522674 (code B ref 11482); Sun, 07 Feb 2016 16:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2016 16:47:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37372 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSSUm-0000h4-47 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 11:47:32 -0500 Received: from mail-ig0-f182.google.com ([209.85.213.182]:35265) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSSUk-0000gr-44 for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 11:47:30 -0500 Received: by mail-ig0-f182.google.com with SMTP id hb3so42536817igb.0 for <11482@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 08:47:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=RfmYZocZy/uuYtXwkM4yWYB/5dSQDMQUH4UUjrNNTyU=; b=iM0/OVLLDI8Rq1hXExJ+zjCAOysGymiYLGl3BFfB9TKW5HLSM6HSjNoTMLAmyBKvsL xYs2o1skTd3M0huSHJ+qKAkJ9wGfxpg/qEPUWEDMtgUrx+fCyCEKc3xZIlyvW9Y51OPu qFSHIwXpa3ibx1EGzLaYq/ahQYbNG5FwqjJRZHfRdpaySmxm565j9aDaODEgy/VErpBq b6x9T87svyoffZ0zb45EW36RacyuHWZobNAzgFgfu/6wKXl56mpHGICwkMVRv7vEJzl/ piVW/l0+cBH9/thURQWxdRR95LDVF3SNs/gxmzGN7TBUocI/WQM0OhHFmntf1O0RmYuk Fuew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=RfmYZocZy/uuYtXwkM4yWYB/5dSQDMQUH4UUjrNNTyU=; b=JmPqFNjeXt3Wb3jeTuSlHuHFdTJWXrNnzk89rhTO42kSiqt6IOwT+rMW3X0ZJ1MUmx Kz3umzSgkKUKAuUR7/emEoDbR964cEjAMqVIKlgJ7sGnifYRVrjjqHs7bEYE2qqFI8Fv hJGuA3J3AA8mEUHZItyQ07sDzgXu4bM5KXYBvSEX/yEY9s4ubBbXNjY6XZRkvuiSJ/st XEME0Ip0+myr7BlaGFgnW/2xpVus0UlCyx4FKqeC3OFVbSvbCQCsbNgW3v+BARnbueyL quc1+DXtSO+LaCe9dlt10DL+e3goY6RPIqWhb4x0O/L/l3qxZaPTlCWwW0VcFAMRpnHE AcVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORbypkFBSYyqsvn3srcSJemy/8P4Ec8pABAGoISkxiaRM0Sv3G9OkLb0Q6+OkPYvA== X-Received: by 10.50.160.11 with SMTP id xg11mr13689782igb.51.1454863644592; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 08:47:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Hermes.local (mail.johnwiegley.com. [208.82.103.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q196sm10960223ioe.31.2016.02.07.08.47.22 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Feb 2016 08:47:22 -0800 (PST) From: John Wiegley X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Received: by Hermes.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 19DA84DCE06D; Sun, 7 Feb 2016 11:47:24 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 7 Feb 2016 00:03:43 -0800 (PST)") Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 11:47:20 -0500 Message-ID: References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> Drew Adams writes: > First, Gnus tried to appropriate M-s from Isearch. When that > grab was exposed, Gnus appropriated M-s M-s, which is a prefix > key for Icicles, even though that too was pointed out. > Gee, thanks, indeed. You're not very cooperative, Mr Ingebrigtsen. Please, Drew, there is no need for such criticism here. You have both done wonderful work over the years, so I know you both want what is best for Ema= cs. Lars, M-s M-s strikes me as a bit strange for something that executes Gnus. Perhaps M-s g, or M-s M-g? =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGcBAEBCgAGBQJWt3UYAAoJEMFE2PTxn+YwXLEL/2rxod0boSlQpNoxHIrPKJkd TWs8i/BQER4ukvc9jyCwMUQSx5sDApYyGurg1df8tzg/a0gsn4/YMzUnqM+Jha0n 43L3UqKBhco0TZF3YVS4HZhaNhX37+lH4LfBpiAHdOc9ha5Z7mmYTjlf2jqjAy0Z Rkn0RSHzkvveMrH838rhR6983qi0949QZapaiZpQrH7sUlNt4GRc75wdeG+YJS63 v9RXA0UVDzbdI22n0iBXBnBfOyGh6/DU1hL+i0AMhdt8srtpVc9fo9XoPlRH1V+D mQ+EYM2JnR0HI/L+DPmWlRgRC7ouTUWCh8q4nTgypxwXuA2oU0kjDVphdn92o2Pc 6hWvvsUtEAYivu/U10EvRgCA44AfRmM2tUetMdBuEYFaW126nUH0VQMoIHaaKDZ/ +hVpqu8eQxmn9V6HUsyqBiK/Xfv3b78A57SBJ25mPVSwWTlS6mkDLuyltHi3G+69 kIBlH4DfvYbnmEYpS6cGZsJS3BjHVO7OD1G33+qySA== =JMaX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 01:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: John Wiegley Cc: Michael Heerdegen , John Wiegley , Drew Adams , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.14548953105262 (code B ref 11482); Mon, 08 Feb 2016 01:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2016 01:35:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37770 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSajO-0001Mo-Df for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 20:35:10 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:42441) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aSajM-0001Me-PU for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2016 20:35:09 -0500 Received: from cpe-60-225-211-161.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([60.225.211.161] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aSaiy-0000ys-8N; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 02:34:44 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:34:38 +1100 In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Sun, 07 Feb 2016 11:47:20 -0500") Message-ID: <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MailScanner-ID: 1aSaiy-0000ys-8N X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1455500086.34629@X9ZIINJG0QrWiF5xvEBVIQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) John Wiegley writes: > Lars, M-s M-s strikes me as a bit strange for something that executes Gnu= s. > Perhaps M-s g, or M-s M-g? Well, the Gnus command is `M-s', not `M-s M-s'... ------- M-s runs the command gnus-summary-search-article-forward (found in gnus-summary-mode-map), which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in =91gnus-sum.el=92. It is bound to M-s, . (gnus-summary-search-article-forward REGEXP &optional BACKWARD) Search for an article containing REGEXP forward. If BACKWARD, search backward instead. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 06:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Drew Adams , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: John Wiegley Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145594968328761 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 06:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 06:28:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aX11L-0007TN-Ua for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 01:28:03 -0500 Received: from mail-pf0-f170.google.com ([209.85.192.170]:36739) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aX11G-0007Su-8R for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 01:27:58 -0500 Received: by mail-pf0-f170.google.com with SMTP id e127so63129707pfe.3 for <11482@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:27:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=F7oMVmv0oEv7+GIBJI3jiyJNZr+PcGofw4j061bV+zw=; b=zvi/Bmzmq/e4BUXsbDIFFYaS86Oc0rggnAkhJVE8seDnd+22fUHG7Xp+izOUDCGoNJ Qqen8RtZ/BBk3tOM+mGHB0apAgMB4lAmpbWPmOc7+BD/TseLljqqAqUDNZGz1IPcuocn 0o5C+dO10quOcAndGjU+gTOu+uRkb47U9K+L5Hul7a8fk0hMpC3t6OhZNodgRtzLhTR2 MYPsi430P/eUp6OyOUPpU1gIufdEXUwjTORoXHtM5NbcukWtPEgEM6nbJ6wDJDAC+mQn rY0IjwjX87LtwC3mponPyFpbnnE9PZWi8KCQX9GlHGb9eWhu26Oq0k000zbkw27nmbGW ydLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=F7oMVmv0oEv7+GIBJI3jiyJNZr+PcGofw4j061bV+zw=; b=Xlit+f+BeNdI5DsaNHyy1eMg+Pj7+Tk209a/iELzkZMDlGjWi1SaDx/aUq04apEYAK ouYXixjUWDnVOJ531HaiUBBUh7he2BJwfDS5Ez6RCRBwfMX2oNOl2YSZS0DKdxGCsQur Gx9by6ZTSXO6mvxozFEkYseWalTZw6W0xPItLNJtVWM5qtLTQY0j+Y54HSbRlHxHALgi RYxu98AnNrmS7EjA86EkA/w1jCa+GiCeOBiUsU7sluaDvUUbDp+XOQIU6muTBmH4+PPk wmFcRouq8mKHnPv9WIpAdYQmiLRC/xdsRgADXu7wvjyXgmQXalKLlezPmgEINyJJvWsY zjlw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORRKQzA2QiA1Cd1l6tGywJjVMqpQd2BqmvQtekkZ1mLwVcE51GyPUwJJXX19YLCuw== X-Received: by 10.98.89.139 with SMTP id k11mr23720766pfj.56.1455949668525; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:27:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id xm10sm22044999pab.12.2016.02.19.22.27.47 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:27:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id EF7EA130DB67D; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:27:46 -0800 (PST) From: John Wiegley In-Reply-To: <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:34:38 +1100") Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:22:58 -0800 Message-ID: References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >>>>> Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Well, the Gnus command is `M-s', not `M-s M-s'... So this is about a binding of M-s when Gnus is active? As long as that's not against the Elisp conventions for key bindings, what is the problem? -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 07:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: John Wiegley Cc: Michael Heerdegen , John Wiegley , Drew Adams , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145595468711442 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 07:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 07:51:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34505 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aX2K7-0002yU-Ky for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 02:51:27 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:41253) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aX2K6-0002yM-AU for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 02:51:26 -0500 Received: from cpe-60-225-211-161.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([60.225.211.161] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aX2Jj-0000bP-Gm; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 08:51:04 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 18:50:57 +1100 In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:22:58 -0800") Message-ID: <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1aX2Jj-0000bP-Gm X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1456559464.49267@S9oRHvrr8q6QXbxrICjR0g X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) John Wiegley writes: > So this is about a binding of M-s when Gnus is active? Yes, in the summary buffer. And it's been a binding there since the mid-80s, if I recall correctly... > As long as that's not against the Elisp conventions for key bindings, > what is the problem? I don't think there is a problem. :-) But Icicles is a minor mode that binds that key globally, so there's a collision... But... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 08:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Drew Adams , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: John Wiegley Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145595545918951 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 08:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 08:04:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34522 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aX2WV-0004vW-Df for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 03:04:18 -0500 Received: from mail-pf0-f176.google.com ([209.85.192.176]:36462) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aX2WR-0004v2-2V for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 03:04:14 -0500 Received: by mail-pf0-f176.google.com with SMTP id e127so64073917pfe.3 for <11482@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 00:04:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=psIW5kjvzEeggXObShcEbObaH0tAdJCPMx7GTqk13U4=; b=oPLLehaZvO5IiuLtToLCwaSryAD3AnOiLsVZAcoUk71cBijbP/SWONecaSdiGT9Z8O XUTpr3AxGeu5yOv1b6qy/WNDkOPTS5+oQ8x777u7pCqwk6QkhVQvJ8lq7ecdFaXOdk41 NUBGh3eEAIClihHymJLW5T6ABleTRxhGa6JXVjcRTgDtNwltA4xBB0SlQr5W4qhsDrz5 pxAc+H79kSJkJDKmRzKvE6kOjPJoHzn8aLO6oBAXYV9hL8jFr3CnHDmXL6np9OAijG37 X5nsUXsJEPKmHqFhPiCmZZ9Xk7kgHGRTdE3Cg9ELmuxZcL3DzXlskwB+FPK0dlvYBWOq vLeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=psIW5kjvzEeggXObShcEbObaH0tAdJCPMx7GTqk13U4=; b=bAigPDt39HkI+zeES21NTbAHyaNU66grIG0PUm6sK5Bp/l1rJQH987FyJSo9mb3xfi ydsi0d45mU0sU9URcAZyUy1VFc0eIeWfnQRJXFIN0mEkJPX51lM02d9mmlUi7NhmEndk 9WtGLv/eHN6QV0WMXoySg8F42wx8qmnKEBkhPEjPOFKvDbwfOKipikiSFJZ43PDAZpbz mQwt3f0TF4NR3dXW4Yi0l4zdn3+Wio2O+K1ViFolJir4aVEN1nk3oTOvs8RlYZQHj9pm Uuy7r1LznmeNQM633r30p4YjIEGBvrJYbreM3Ep6bUZF/GCWTavULvz5Jq/TRfQeYTRy pMPw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOS9lo/Eovhe/dr/tqsCTVBsBzhN/104q0dO95N8irfacaYLa3LSYlxaopskGIBw8Q== X-Received: by 10.98.70.80 with SMTP id t77mr23550000pfa.107.1455955445248; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 00:04:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r77sm22508572pfa.47.2016.02.20.00.04.03 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 00:04:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7BA3B130DC094; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 00:04:02 -0800 (PST) From: John Wiegley In-Reply-To: <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 20 Feb 2016 18:50:57 +1100") Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 00:03:00 -0800 Message-ID: References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >>>>> Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > I don't think there is a problem. :-) But Icicles is a minor mode that binds > that key globally, so there's a collision... But... If it's not against convention, then I think Gnus can bind what it wants while I'm reading mail with it. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 16:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: John Wiegley , Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Michael Heerdegen , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.14559864487996 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 16:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 16:40:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXAaK-00024j-GC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 11:40:48 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:36809) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXAaE-00024Q-RU for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 11:40:42 -0500 Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u1KGeWuZ009884 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 16:40:32 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1KGeVjr021348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 16:40:31 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1KGeUVF032613; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 16:40:31 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0e46790f-faa7-4008-9c37-f46be709513b@default> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 08:40:29 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > I don't think there is a problem. :-) But Icicles is a minor mode that > > binds that key globally, so there's a collision... But... >=20 > If it's not against convention, then I think Gnus can bind what it wants > while I'm reading mail with it. Depends on what you call "convention". As the original bug report says: My understanding was that `M-s' is now pretty much reserved as a prefix key for search. Isn't that the case? Is that a convention? For example: `M-s w' and the Dired search keys, which all use prefix key `M-s f'. My thinking for defining `M-s M-s' as an Icicles search prefix key was (a) `M-s' is a prefix key for Emacs search generally, and (b) I did not find any conflicts for `M-s M-s' on the `M-s' prefix key. =20 But if Gnus binds `M-s' to a command, that conflicts with the general use of `M-s' as a prefix key (for search). That is the bug: Gnus should not bind `M-s' to a command. `M-s' should remain a prefix key (for search). =20 Presumably, in the context where `M-s' is bound to a Gnus command it is unavailable for use by Isearch etc. Even for Gnus users of vanilla Emacs, I would think that this would be a loss. Michael Heerdegen replied that for that particular Gnus buffer there is _not_ much use for search, and that Gnus anyway provides its own search search command (on another key, I guess): That Gnus shadows the global M-s binding is another issue. But since Gnus replaces it with a search command suitable for searching articles, it's IMHO not really a problem. AFAIK, only the summary buffer is affected by the M-s binding, and there, "normal" searching is rarely needed. It is true that prefix key `M-s' is _not_ called out in (elisp) `Key Binding Conventions' as being reserved. So in that sense it is perhaps not a convention. Or else that doc is not up-to-date. There are regularities in Emacs default key bindings, which are not called out in (elisp) `Key Binding Conventions' as being "conventional" in the sense of being reserved. Presumably these regularities are only nice-to-haves, not required. If so, the question here is whether, how much, and where Emacs itself wants to respect such a regularity/convention. ("Emacs itself" presumably includes Gnus now, even if it might not have back in the "mid-80s" (or '88, when Gnus was written - and no, I do not see `M-s' there: http://www.gnus.org/2.0/gnus.el.)) So: 1. Yes, of course "Gnus can bind what it wants while [you're] reading mail with it." 2. A minor mode (such as Icicles) can also bind what it wants. 3. That particular Gnus buffer apparently has little need for search, and even less need for Isearch (`M-s ...'), as it has its own search command. 4. Users will generally expect `M-s' to be a search prefix key. That's the "convention". It can confuse users for this or that mode or library to bind `M-s' to something else. But confusion is not the end of the world. And modes and libraries can have good reasons for bindings they make. 5. At least for Icicles, it is trivial for a user to bind Icicles search commands to a different prefix key from `M-s'. This is really not about Icicles, IMO. 6. Because of the `M-s' "convention" and user expectations of it, a natural question is this: Is there a good reason for Gnus _not_ to use a different key from `M-s'? I haven't seen _any_ reason given, so far. But again, see #1... Feel free to close this bug, if you don't care that Gnus respects the `M-s' "convention" and #1 is most important. I filed the bug report based on an Icicles user report. I filed it because of my understanding that `M-s' is conventionally a search prefix key. Although it is trivial for an Icicles user to change the Icicles prefix key for search commands from `M-s M-s' to something else, the reporting user chose to instead change the Gnus key from `M-s'. Maybe that says something about users expecting or wanting `M-s' to continue to be for search. Or maybe not - that's only one user. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Drew Adams Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: John Wiegley Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145599689224000 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 19:34:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXDIq-0006F2-LJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:34:52 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f44.google.com ([209.85.220.44]:36453) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXDIo-0006En-Nf for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:34:51 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id yy13so68420484pab.3 for <11482@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 11:34:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=shRforyjhjRjyQjYt7n6ZAKEbJKIWVlQHNQs/O+qwag=; b=0JcN/DTHVwsEprUEkquKMjClYP9sEPXxEPu83j/mXB9WVcTuwUIQ19mJ32/QnAv8rB B/K3GNH93g7hm3BlxpYHR5YSLU2bfC9WO/O6+xKMArRh/r+6o4gkcKqASP6MbvInRbiS 6jt1rrXjh4kJceh7HpScAdjWBhXZzUG7NpXppEPgGYbOsgNhdFXjqFQoYb4RNVJBAtLv 23vqjVWqkPNY9aKfxIwHh9hAc5B7ZMvODIEO6IVHIfUCfHIeuUX5O6UItTfCla5EPMOH DJgfOM0FNi6sO49g9bo0orzmM+93huJSVPOvEAk/vrRG1y9OmiK8HEFeRiN+IUv1flzO kjhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=shRforyjhjRjyQjYt7n6ZAKEbJKIWVlQHNQs/O+qwag=; b=RTVGk8ZeleFqUhykgID08YO0IL/UHIb7J33kc4cg484kav5ktgkYx7XZhsc7Rgs9WE 4VCK1dg5I2IEAaNpHNQ7+LxtNYR5p57nLwp3fS2TdW8B0E/KFJdtgadRJZTTAVIiQEEa dyGTUG15n7jfp56vubT5MdZ7jJt30+hYmyNUk8qRnY4pwhrBGEiKCUCLNz42tikUUDhv xq6YHs1fgvGokBGzvBBQcPvnBkbKzxu7ejabpNa67cx+mysb4z7eNrvzKN84XlAALUwT rj+Aiy4OcvpbnIXBIC0H+GZxqPnxmdkPdSr1h2G8m11uY0KUwfgtCoOWWrLwysswMf6j 7jzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQjmWS/Jh2O/MiuY31J7YlyDCR+1g0VPnIdK+Fedy/PfHUFpR1jLcGfgJnVQfCWOw== X-Received: by 10.66.226.238 with SMTP id rv14mr27239912pac.41.1455996884985; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 11:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g74sm26294476pfj.1.2016.02.20.11.34.43 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 11:34:44 -0800 (PST) From: John Wiegley X-Google-Original-From: John Wiegley Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 69226130FB4DC; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 11:34:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0e46790f-faa7-4008-9c37-f46be709513b@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 20 Feb 2016 08:40:29 -0800 (PST)") Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 11:28:00 -0800 Message-ID: References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> <0e46790f-faa7-4008-9c37-f46be709513b@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >>>>> Drew Adams writes: > Feel free to close this bug, if you don't care that Gnus respects the `M-s' > "convention" and #1 is most important. I filed the bug report based on an > Icicles user report. I filed it because of my understanding that `M-s' is > conventionally a search prefix key. Let's change the topic of this bug then, to be about whether M-s should be a reserved key to be respected by all modes or not, and therefore require an update to the Elisp convention. Lars, do you think this would be troublesome for Gnus? -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: John Wiegley Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145599966528095 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:22:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 20:21:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35599 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE1Z-0007J5-An for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:21:05 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:31352) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXE1Y-0007IH-5G for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:21:04 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u1KKKvff003572 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:20:58 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1KKKvqG010295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:20:57 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u1KKKs46025459; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:20:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1a76af5c-e408-4ae4-83cf-a81e29f30dec@default> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 12:20:53 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> <0e46790f-faa7-4008-9c37-f46be709513b@default> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > Feel free to close this bug, if you don't care that Gnus respects the `= M-s' > > "convention" and #1 is most important. I filed the bug report based on = an > > Icicles user report. I filed it because of my understanding that `M-s' = is > > conventionally a search prefix key. >=20 > Let's change the topic of this bug then, to be about whether M-s should b= e a > reserved key to be respected by all modes or not, and therefore require a= n > update to the Elisp convention. Lars, do you think this would be troubles= ome > for Gnus? I'm not sure I'd advise that. I think it might be better to leave this `M-s' "rule" as it is, and thus leave uses by Emacs itself up to Emacs Dev. Users and 3rd-party library authors already understand, or will come to understand, that Emacs itself uses `M-s' as a prefix for search keys, and they will take that into account in deciding whether they want to repurpose it. IOW, if it is not cast in bronze in the `Key Binding Conventions' then there is more leeway for judgment calls, case by case. That might be the best approach for this. The list of official key reservations is purposely quite limited, and that has not hurt Emacs. And there will likely be other such decisions, as Emacs makes more use of prefix keys (because keys are a limited resource). That's my expectation, at least: consolidation of related keys on prefix keys (by default), such as was done for `M-s', in order to deal with a shortage of keys. In any case, IMHO, a decision whether to make `M-s' reserved should not be based on, or even influenced by, whether doing that would be troublesome for Gnus. Reserving `M-s' is a bigger decision - even if it would not be troublesome for Gnus, that should not be sufficient to decide to do it. And even if it is troublesome for Gnus, that should not be sufficient to decide not to do it. So I would prefer to see this bug dealt with, one way or another, without deciding once and for all whether `M-s' should be reserved per the published key-binding conventions. Just one opinion (and I could be persuaded otherwise). From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:42:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145600090830077 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:42:01 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 20:41:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35615 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXELb-0007p3-UC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:41:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52006) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXELa-0007oq-AA for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:41:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXELU-0004sm-GK for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:41:41 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42361) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXELU-0004si-CV for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:41:40 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aXELT-0002xM-T0; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:41:39 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spook: 2600 Cartel de Golfo CESID CBP Emergency management FBI X-Ran: M/[A@$wG68bqH6U_~m7VzD'zTQHKwgjz.gb#])]Lc#,>]1+0M3598\(E^E_n8K71Cc:V'{ X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:41:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 20 Feb 2016 18:50:57 +1100") Message-ID: <8kfuwndsho.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Please note the ancient FOR-RELEASE (now release-process) item ** Check for modes which bind M-s that conflicts with a new global binding M-s and change key bindings where necessary. The current list of modes: Gnus was there first. From unknown Tue Jun 24 01:41:21 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11482: 24.0.96; Keep `M-s' as a prefix key for search (conflict with Gnus) Resent-From: John Wiegley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11482 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Drew Adams Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 11482@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: John Wiegley Received: via spool by 11482-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11482.145600103230278 (code B ref 11482); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 11482) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2016 20:43:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35622 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXENc-0007sI-H1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:43:52 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-f45.google.com ([209.85.220.45]:36580) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aXENa-0007s2-I2 for 11482@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 15:43:51 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id yy13so68906862pab.3 for <11482@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 12:43:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=ZxutEsUtYTmzvdCSTjVKcPF73KbQOM4NGDdsRwRDYlo=; b=RxK0NzdVh6wNw+rPkYYextfE8flkNL7ReONv6iVpZm6GMCHavOFWIPLq05TWtcwS0M b9qsLJGsnVL5ZTC897aaomMawJPTLJ/kfeyVscwCqh8UcqYjt0+KyHyXBmz5ir9b7FVg mfDl0qc/rBD9hg3kqsTVYdoGtK3Zmm8twa1qslGt3+InWe90eFDiEWk6OBSecgIUlSoi vIOLY5zLjN/cXur3GtQHljtxwXrCU+6s/216yyL2BanCU7dYLiZNiWhmV7FHRHAEzMaR mD5LjWzlYwENfPfCDf0Vu819TgirYx90A6YLWnO/sIBThRp0Li2yL5jB/jJfgBXlWabC 2YXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=ZxutEsUtYTmzvdCSTjVKcPF73KbQOM4NGDdsRwRDYlo=; b=ARx5Gkjgm7AlfT/nsKlkEY925hiH48p0R7HZosEGwc9RTFgGEumVVlyHfuml9C9T0J +LYyj0W+ofxZnBJRikrefoRaywfOW5rdB9+PKS4K0BxdXxh8rkbLe9lVZxGuSdQpyHju p8MEZ9ptSJ0sjvc6gD6vfctRpA0EHj+j2bNwJ8MbrNvIEDtRXYDzQPTxAkUlacj/chLV R3CSgVlr35PFWT6tQSYZ/XZrwC0VQ8BDZ2c334bhYIicjU8RSorjUGPph5r0FzQpw8m2 jR7TpSwE11S4QEdodtrKSAXn7U77wf+mgoxb3AVbtydE5rcTIWbASaRBPoXJBWRUITOG k9TQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOSgdCKDEpCudVN/Vrt5eovmqWIZdH5AtSEPBG619bkBh7Xgkeo+iM7C07OKwlj10w== X-Received: by 10.66.54.44 with SMTP id g12mr1414043pap.48.1456001024907; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 12:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n68sm26437416pfj.46.2016.02.20.12.43.43 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 20 Feb 2016 12:43:43 -0800 (PST) From: John Wiegley X-Google-Original-From: John Wiegley Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8F360130FB9E0; Sat, 20 Feb 2016 12:43:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1a76af5c-e408-4ae4-83cf-a81e29f30dec@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 20 Feb 2016 12:20:53 -0800 (PST)") Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 12:43:38 -0800 Message-ID: References: <703E3EF0C68345F2BC8A537EDBB42E54@us.oracle.com> <87fvntexkr.fsf@building.gnus.org> <8738jo1kmi.fsf@web.de> <8760y19f1e.fsf@gnus.org> <1c20b66c-da00-46fc-9888-8a42707ae9a8@default> <87a8nc56j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87twl3bz1a.fsf@gnus.org> <0e46790f-faa7-4008-9c37-f46be709513b@default> <1a76af5c-e408-4ae4-83cf-a81e29f30dec@default> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) >>>>> Drew Adams writes: > So I would prefer to see this bug dealt with, one way or another, without > deciding once and for all whether `M-s' should be reserved per the published > key-binding conventions. If there's no convention, then I think Gnus is free to choose here. You can make the argument to Lars to not use that binding, but then it's not really a bug in any sense. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2