From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.133502378513854 (code B ref -1); Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:57:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2012 15:56:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45842 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcfd-0003bJ-1w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:56:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34768) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcfX-0003b3-9V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:56:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcet-0004So-Cy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:38 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:59087) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcet-0004Sj-70 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47852) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcep-0000HR-0H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcek-0004Pq-I6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:30 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f52.google.com ([209.85.210.52]:35881) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcek-0004Pk-8g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:26 -0400 Received: by dake40 with SMTP id e40so13067822dak.39 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:55:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=b5qWugwXWHAOxQ2US1VNgtkaMQ+bJsfZ+M0laVb8Zw0=; b=py/TkJqcBwqJiGbodeC1F1we5SJ/0DvwqnVjnnXDLQI3T3kJUZ0emSSpMzoCpDS9/U bUwW8QtYm9QnYxRQmIRZdaLUupAnyZAed83htVmJ1dWjrzyyTE9l8/ZSb1HOZ8fG/0mN 208R+9J7C9qosjdwtKOQ0k6LaVfeAz9gPx33wba0iZvcEGLIl1DJ95GTF9g9uXtyV5vz Nt544PG+MzW+7zCS7GsxjM3HjsSJEIHINYORBQlQjclvuYMQlXLdVaz6bQ/asFDYOn60 h27qNycjp4uM3xHLnXMHb0fyp9oOF9H/5lBblW3KpjNg7ASFTPHknBjE2XBKRv2elp9+ vULw== Received: by 10.68.136.162 with SMTP id qb2mr22153115pbb.67.1335023724089; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.242.225.216]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gz3sm169221pbc.3.2012.04.21.08.55.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:55:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:25:16 +0530 Message-ID: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) Feel free to close it or add to it. An exact copy of my post in help-gnu-emacs. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2012-04/msg00332.html Increasingly, I am feeling the need for multiple scratch buffers. By default, my scratch buffer is in emacs-lisp mode. Some times, I switch that scratch buffer to Org-mode when I create lists, tables or just copy-paste some plain text from interwebs purely for reasons of wrapping/filling. 1. Allow multiple scratch buffers one for each mode the user is interested in. The defcustom can have a solitary text-mode entry. A user wanting no scratch buffer at all can null-ify the mode list. A user like me can add emacs-lisp-mode and org-mode to it. 2. Just in case I need a one-off scratch buffer, I need a quick way to create it without having to think of (or type) out the full name Or confirm my intentions (This latter part is *very* annoying). C-u C-x b can offer to create *scratch-%s* (or %s-scratch) in %s-mode. 3. I think it is not the scratch buffer that is idiosyncratic but the /name/. Instead of using scratch one could call it say a notes buffer or a temp buffer. That said I am happy with the way things are. I know how to kill my scratch buffer and I also know how to create multiple ones if needed. I also know how to type 'y' if prompted :-). From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:55:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.13350380542955 (code B ref 11298); Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:55:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2012 19:54:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46065 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLgNq-0000lc-C9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:54:14 -0400 Received: from ironport-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.143.162]:23064) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLgNp-0000lQ-2h for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:54:13 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjEKACxOgk/O+K5t/2dsb2JhbABDtheCDAOBDIEIggkBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHAW2MothhHkEpEWBXYMD X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,391,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="175821695" Received: from 206-248-174-109.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.174.109]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 21 Apr 2012 15:53:35 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 1C65D58D2D; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:53:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:25:16 +0530") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > 1. Allow multiple scratch buffers one for each mode the user is > interested in. We do not disallow that, so could you be more specific in what you mean by that? > The defcustom can have a solitary text-mode entry. Which defcustom? > C-u C-x b can offer to create *scratch-%s* (or %s-scratch) in > %s-mode. Interesting idea. It might not even need a C-u: we could simply make C-x b query the user for a major-mode when the buffer doesn't exist yet (and we could try and take a hint from the buffer name to guess a good default: e.g. looking for a major-mode name in the buffer name, or matching the buffer name against auto-mode-alist). > 3. I think it is not the scratch buffer that is idiosyncratic but the > /name/. Instead of using scratch one could call it say a notes > buffer or a temp buffer. I'm not married to "*scratch*", but "notes" sounds like something you'd want to save, and "temp" sounds like something that might disappear without warning. Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.13350414607949 (code B ref 11298); Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:51:02 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2012 20:51:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46100 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLhGi-000247-Tn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 16:51:00 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f42.google.com ([209.85.210.42]:36084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLhGc-00023q-JF for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 16:50:55 -0400 Received: by dang27 with SMTP id g27so17762250dan.29 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:50:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=qMjVji2IFwXuXo+qlXcaS4ry7qLAbdPBvktdp18ZdZ4=; b=OZnsaSLkJbrp9XT8YNWcr5QSJGfIFzGKA4qnXyZRQxyw9XOM39a5BWzN2UcNgJl2jc baQV2obxV2ZKAUSdWSPh4j04FkAFYOvrCXRaYBIatAtSGR3FrXbQR/HgZPQRa7DvPUmE VRGsj6LRaGpuPhTtttxwf7DHar7MgXlp4E3e1+Xg16wrF7uJp6aBgNeLZnprvu4CKwm8 bcTKYu5+4RurZ2WPdPF5WE/cJyyxBLd6dSEX4771WvvFjASpn+UiFXErg7LforubSXu+ VMjCGBaYiO1rWOG7R7jbKLI2/86tWYA6f47mVnn4UoP0Z1pzaQJ7FWNLkkXedgVjMFzj 4Q2w== Received: by 10.68.136.161 with SMTP id qb1mr16753829pbb.104.1335041412549; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.242.237.57]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wn3sm9343922pbc.74.2012.04.21.13.50.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:50:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 02:20:01 +0530 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:53:34 -0400") Message-ID: <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: >> 1. Allow multiple scratch buffers one for each mode the user is >> interested in. > > We do not disallow that, so could you be more specific in what you mean > by that? > Instead of creating one scratch buffer, make changes such a way that N scratch buffers are created. N = 0, 1, 2, 3 etc etc. >> The defcustom can have a solitary text-mode entry. > > Which defcustom? This defcustom will be newly introduced as part of this change. Let's call it `scratch-buffer-modes'. With the below setting, (setq scratch-buffer-modes '(emacs-lisp-mode org-mode)) I will get 2 scratch buffers by default on startup. One *org-scratch* in org-mode and one *emacs-lisp-scratch* in emacs-lisp mode. If someone is unhappy with having any scratch buffers at all, then one could just do a (setq scratch-buffer-mode nil) >> C-u C-x b can offer to create *scratch-%s* (or %s-scratch) in >> %s-mode. > > Interesting idea. It might not even need a C-u: we could simply make > C-x b query the user for a major-mode when the buffer doesn't exist yet > (and we could try and take a hint from the buffer name to guess a good > default: e.g. looking for a major-mode name in the buffer name, or > matching the buffer name against auto-mode-alist). Whatever is chosen, this prompt "No buffer matching whatever, create one (y/n)?" should be removed. This is annoying. I am not destroying things. I am not sure why the world is against people creating stuff :-). A sensible name *must* be offered, which I can just RET with possibly a minor modification. >> 3. I think it is not the scratch buffer that is idiosyncratic but the >> /name/. Instead of using scratch one could call it say a notes >> buffer or a temp buffer. > > I'm not married to "*scratch*", but "notes" sounds like something you'd > want to save, and "temp" sounds like something that might disappear > without warning. May be, marry scratch buffer with emacs-lock-mode... I don't use persistent scratch buffers. A persistent scratch buffer could be same as what we now call an `initial-buffer-choice'. Only difference is that the file is ~/.emacs.d/scratch ("secretly" chosen by the Emacs). From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.13351039266512 (code B ref 11298); Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2012 14:12:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47017 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLxWF-0001gv-I1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:12:04 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:38184 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLxWC-0001gW-6Q for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:12:00 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLxVZ-0001l3-Tn; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:11:21 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:11:21 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman In-reply-to: <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Jambunathan K on Sun, 22 Apr 2012 02:20:01 +0530) References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) Instead of creating one scratch buffer, make changes such a way that N scratch buffers are created. N = 0, 1, 2, 3 etc etc. rename-uniquely is a good way to do that. Whenever you want a new one, go to *scratch* and type M-x rename-uniquely. Then the next thing that tries to make *scratch* will create a new one. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133521001511226 (code B ref 11298); Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2012 19:40:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMP7O-0002uz-An for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:40:15 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:51087) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMP7M-0002us-AG for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:40:13 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q3NJdSLX006356; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:39:28 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 47CAEB4018; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:39:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:39:27 -0400 In-Reply-To: <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Sun, 22 Apr 2012 02:20:01 +0530") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4201=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4201> : streams <749522> : uri <1102769> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) >>> 1. Allow multiple scratch buffers one for each mode the user is >>> interested in. >> We do not disallow that, so could you be more specific in what you mean >> by that? > Instead of creating one scratch buffer, make changes such a way that N > scratch buffers are created. N = 0, 1, 2, 3 etc etc. You mean start up Emacs with several scratch buffers? Hmm, now that's an unexpected request: most people don't even know what to do with the single *scratch* buffer. I'd rather move towards eliminating *scratch* (after all, we have the splash screen to replace it nowadays). >>> C-u C-x b can offer to create *scratch-%s* (or %s-scratch) in >>> %s-mode. >> Interesting idea. It might not even need a C-u: we could simply make >> C-x b query the user for a major-mode when the buffer doesn't exist yet >> (and we could try and take a hint from the buffer name to guess a good >> default: e.g. looking for a major-mode name in the buffer name, or >> matching the buffer name against auto-mode-alist). > Whatever is chosen, this prompt "No buffer matching whatever, create one > (y/n)?" should be removed. This is annoying. This is the fault of `ido'. The normal C-x b just asks for an extra RET to confirm you do want to create a new buffer (under the control of confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer). Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: Lennart Borgman Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org, Jambunathan K Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133521187314028 (code B ref 11298); Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:12:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2012 20:11:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49461 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMPbN-0003eC-K6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:11:13 -0400 Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f44.google.com ([209.85.215.44]:43596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMPbK-0003dz-Vf for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:11:11 -0400 Received: by lagj5 with SMTP id j5so8179832lag.3 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:10:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=we23F5QwYmbVxw20dx0JFrPy4RkN+phIfDSFTeK72g0=; b=jx8wBHpTWnCEVoLjXFZpV4Ns7zfF49lcD1tz4Bj3wuEL28f8VQ+YYrjENcGmdoaTW2 QkpxqBuzFYiU+vFFPXe235yuv209FRnI8Vzz25Rn7ABChMAhb6DO27K7NFYDBnXBrLD6 NRXOr8sp9T1IkL7X7aiSaaIMPICLDcMTVLGd15LiURp7LGv9+/UwVvazLT1qBgV4wjbJ aF5NJfJlqR5oy+9bQP6FbElF1ugSo4k0qMDKzSMO1iqrc0se9WjratdjUpCWeU+dHDz2 oowh1I7xaXQewoB9YGVzYXJxlMXDL+77HVEGdkfREm7N4Gjlf88Aa4Nq/aQY7KDqQAzR nWNg== Received: by 10.152.162.68 with SMTP id xy4mr17797223lab.49.1335211820286; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:10:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.74.232 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:09:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> From: Lennart Borgman Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:09:50 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 21:39, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>> 1. Allow multiple scratch buffers one for each mode the user is >>>> interested in. >>> We do not disallow that, so could you be more specific in what you mean >>> by that? >> Instead of creating one scratch buffer, make changes such a way that N >> scratch buffers are created. N = 0, 1, 2, 3 etc etc. > > You mean start up Emacs with several scratch buffers? > Hmm, now that's an unexpected request: most people don't even know what > to do with the single *scratch* buffer. > I'd rather move towards eliminating *scratch* (after all, we have the > splash screen to replace it nowadays). In the nXhtml package I have a command that creates a new buffer from the content in the clipboard. I now often use that instead of the *scratch* buffer. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Jambunathan K'" Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133521193614136 (code B ref 11298); Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:13:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2012 20:12:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49465 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMPcN-0003fw-Te for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:12:16 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:50087) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMPcL-0003fh-7P for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:12:14 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q3NKBMkJ002808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:11:22 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3NKBLp4016380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:11:22 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q3NKBLsb006926; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:11:21 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:11:21 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:11:19 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac0hiPcwKhr3o5voT7icJ6PqqOjN5QAAJk5w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > This is the fault of `ido'. The normal C-x b just asks for > an extra RET to confirm you do want to create a new buffer > (under the control of confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer). Actually, with the default value of `after-completion' I do not see it ever asking for confirmation. Did you mean only if the user has customized that option to something other than nil and the default value? If not, I guess I'm missing something. The doc says that confirmation is required for `after-completion' only if `minibuffer-complete-and-exit' is called immediately after `minibuffer-complete'. [The doc actually phrases that backward. Why it does that, and why it does not mention the keys `C-j' and `TAB' instead of the commands, I don't know. Just to make it harder to understand, I guess. ;-)] But I don't see any `C-x b' scenario that leads to confirmation being required, if the option has the default value of `after-completion'. AFAICT, when that is the option value, `C-x b' (`switch-to-buffer'), does not even use a `must-match' completion keymap to read the buffer name, so `minibuffer-complete-and-exit' is not even bound to a key. (No, I didn't check the C source code to be sure, but the debugger shows that `C-j' invokes `exit-minibuffer' for `read-buffer-to-switch' with an option value of `after-completion'.) What am I missing? Is there a way to hit TAB for a nonexistent buffer name and have confirmation be requested? If I type a nonexistent name and hit TAB (getting "No match"), and then hit `C-j' or `RET', the name is accepted without confirmation. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 01:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Jambunathan K' Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133523163411738 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 01:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 01:40:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49638 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMUk6-00033H-2l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:40:34 -0400 Received: from ironport-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.143.162]:22842) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMUk3-000334-LD for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:40:32 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjEKACxOgk/O+Jnc/2dsb2JhbABDtheCDAOBDIEIggkBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSIHAW2MothhHkEpEWBXYMD X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,391,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="176388433" Received: from 206-248-153-220.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.153.220]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 23 Apr 2012 21:39:40 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 2310458EB0; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:39:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:39:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:11:19 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > But I don't see any `C-x b' scenario that leads to confirmation being > required, if the option has the default value of `after-completion'. % emacs23 -Q C-x b foo TAB RET Asks for confirmation here. Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:24:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.13352629901383 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:24:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 10:23:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50079 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMcto-0000MF-OV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 06:23:10 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:36363) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMctl-0000Ll-JA for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 06:23:07 -0400 Received: by pbbrp16 with SMTP id rp16so4197493pbb.3 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 03:22:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=mAwyT4IwHT16tC9SjAHS5tF72IFHFtGjzMlZp7+aX3E=; b=VmtzwBA/dZoJcyw91PPLT5Tu9+Ccm/4jl9Fot5GKekUi7IuX4MMbgfYZBmYuMbGDit uo51hFMnycSZEShG5kftTb4/+ZbDtxPEvu/+swmThUqtmp3XVeecEBX87LV6IHmyV5qM Yfl1KNnB4nvtnXg9BXm+O/jBO0WSOxWslSeu6akhOXiGtzJyuWu6JDk968o01CNmwSBk h/LYsx8o+YMe2t3uQvY6P5MQtslU2kLi/k6pTadSDNSF/17XBsSenMW9vOb9KjsZz0Ab wzQGNt+JA3OumtCnnFQpEuOVGj5Ctflgb20k4auQTtyvDYs6jnDqz+SSXiIjf/w6eJDl UfJQ== Received: by 10.68.194.5 with SMTP id hs5mr2481833pbc.69.1335262933036; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 03:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.242.146.126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rd4sm4408810pbc.40.2012.04.24.03.22.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 03:22:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:51:58 +0530 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:11:21 -0400") Message-ID: <81obqh5t15.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Richard Stallman writes: > Instead of creating one scratch buffer, make changes such a way that N > scratch buffers are created. N = 0, 1, 2, 3 etc etc. > > rename-uniquely is a good way to do that. Whenever you want a new one, > go to *scratch* and type M-x rename-uniquely. Then the next thing > that tries to make *scratch* will create a new one. I believe what I am saying is this: Can the scratch buffers be uniquified st. that the major mode of the buffer is reflected in it's name. This way I can have *scratch-org*, *scratch-text*, *scratch-emacs-lisp* etc. Just brainstorming. > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation > 51 Franklin St > Boston MA 02110 > USA > www.fsf.org www.gnu.org > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Recipe to surface *code-conversion-work* buffer References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:59:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.13352651284883 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:59:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 10:58:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50125 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMdSJ-0001Gh-CQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 06:58:47 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f42.google.com ([209.85.210.42]:36028) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMdSH-0001GW-LI for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 06:58:46 -0400 Received: by dang27 with SMTP id g27so895585dan.29 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 03:57:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-type; bh=S7RBfv8yxyawodJfTsytq8GOZIeIU4ZrLZtfnwYcee8=; b=nI8a02c4CcpqtW9LI9JiPsYbo0x/6RHDWFySPMP3xDqVdlB5ULztQkA0JwJJXj1ADR uUAkK/mAHe8J8nbNMIEcM/TCxg4LgInLlOhCVXRfIIs06JEoEhv6dTTSgQn4Lua1KA6d D+WT9GFeX8IY8TzMyZKqY+2vMeuEkX2KbU69Q8MmfVa2gsuTKM6WPwYG88q3UJ1N8UNk lI+hD015xAKJie/R3V9JLH1crFpweO3i4kDHr/IV1l2rFQ+Ho/1ceXo5ewAZr2hzqVOs Umd023GR7DDFZNQ4nQNa7X0jPYCr4lkwcaZIpqoClNJseGN/uo4erqbnhEylEtG14Fgu isLw== Received: by 10.68.203.41 with SMTP id kn9mr3156662pbc.75.1335265073115; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 03:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.242.146.126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i5sm17123338pbf.19.2012.04.24.03.57.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 03:57:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:27:40 +0530 Message-ID: <817gx5iehn.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) [Recipe to surface *code-conversion-work* buffer] ------------------------------------------------- Summary ------- This is my little excursion in to killing *scratch* (to death?) Now I am wondering whether: 1. *scratch* buffer re-generates itself 2. Why some buffers like *code-conversion-work* (and other internal buffers like "Minibuf", "Echo Area") gets /surfaced/ in some buffer listings, but totally disappears in the next buffer listing. For want of better place to put this, I am attaching it to *scratch* buffer bug report. Read on. Steps to reproduce: ------------------ 1. Emacs -Q 2. C-x b TAB gives me ,---- | Click on a completion to select it. | In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point. | | Possible completions are: | *Messages* `---- 3. C-g. Now you are in *scratch* 4. Kill *scratch* => *Messages* shows up 5. Kill *Messages* => *Completions* shows up 6. Kill *Completions* => *scratch* shows up Now I get confused. Why does *scratch* show up again. Didn't I kill it before? 7. C-x b TAB TAB gets me this ,---- | Click on a completion to select it. | In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point. | | Possible completions are: | *Echo Area 0* *Echo Area 1* | *Minibuf-0* *Minibuf-1* | *code-conversion-work* `---- I choose to examine *code-conversion-work*. The name seems interesting. This is what I see there when I visit it: ,---- | c:/Program Files/emacs-24.0.95/lisp/emacs-lisp/easymenu.elc `---- 8. C-x b TAB now shows ,---- | Click on a completion to select it. | In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point. | | Possible completions are: | *Completions* | *Messages* | *scratch* `---- Note that special buffers that show up in step 7 has disappeared. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Recipe to surface *code-conversion-work* buffer Resent-From: martin rudalics Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133526762511790 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 11:40:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50180 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMe6b-000347-3C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 07:40:25 -0400 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]:36996) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMe6Y-00033s-HV for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 07:40:23 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 24 Apr 2012 11:39:28 -0000 Received: from 62-47-61-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.61.172]) [62.47.61.172] by mail.gmx.net (mp034) with SMTP; 24 Apr 2012 13:39:28 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18YtF5Oj+EYRDrdftgiLBN+f5YMX1vOxy7RhCzZ1Q xEXNFUhlj8CJP0 Message-ID: <4F9690ED.4020905@gmx.at> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:39:25 +0200 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <817gx5iehn.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <817gx5iehn.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> This is my little excursion in to killing *scratch* (to death?) > > Now I am wondering whether: > 1. *scratch* buffer re-generates itself It does because Emacs needs at least one buffer it can display. > 2. Why some buffers like *code-conversion-work* (and other internal > buffers like "Minibuf", "Echo Area") gets /surfaced/ in some buffer > listings, but totally disappears in the next buffer listing. Usually they are not displayed because their names start with a space. > For want of better place to put this, I am attaching it to *scratch* > buffer bug report. > > Read on. > > Steps to reproduce: > ------------------ > > 1. Emacs -Q > 2. C-x b TAB gives me > ,---- > | Click on a completion to select it. > | In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point. > | > | Possible completions are: > | *Messages* > `---- > 3. C-g. Now you are in *scratch* > 4. Kill *scratch* => *Messages* shows up > 5. Kill *Messages* => *Completions* shows up > 6. Kill *Completions* => *scratch* shows up > > Now I get confused. Why does *scratch* show up again. Didn't I kill > it before? Because when you killed the last other buffer whose name didn't start with a space, *scratch* got regenerated. > 7. C-x b TAB TAB gets me this > ,---- > | Click on a completion to select it. > | In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point. > | > | Possible completions are: > | *Echo Area 0* *Echo Area 1* > | *Minibuf-0* *Minibuf-1* > | *code-conversion-work* > `---- > > I choose to examine *code-conversion-work*. The name seems > interesting. This is what I see there when I visit it: > > ,---- > | c:/Program Files/emacs-24.0.95/lisp/emacs-lisp/easymenu.elc > `---- > Usually, buffers whose names start with a space are not proposed. But since you killed all other buffers what do you want Emacs to propose? > 8. C-x b TAB now shows > ,---- > | Click on a completion to select it. > | In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point. > | > | Possible completions are: > | *Completions* > | *Messages* > | *scratch* > `---- > > Note that special buffers that show up in step 7 has disappeared. Because these buffer have been recreated in the meantime. Is there anything bad about the behavior you observed? martin From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Scratch buffer (Summary of Xah's proposals, as I see it) References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133527008415545 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 12:21:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50239 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMekD-00042c-WE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:21:23 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:53574) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMekB-00042O-4l for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:21:20 -0400 Received: by pbbrp16 with SMTP id rp16so22115pbb.3 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:20:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-type; bh=cGUqiqCivJ0gKl6iws177qn+uojVvMtQo2c0kBPKihY=; b=iI6oFfObxyd/UdLBQQ2OMUZyc40ymPiwfBTg9o/fTa/gfNF6c0whdOZ4lwd2wAT+Aw M8drDSSBns6BaPHn1/SuA9p6rS6/vvZHicB2lausZuUCkP1mIaIy++dYserMFcm1fLoB byv2OdQJvorj5vVFuzT95F2vYu8rqw4z5YE3ZYfxT0qGLWamrXx3nBMX2ujfibQFhzzb azLY0NfKqn1/mHEff5fNeaWa/oCCTRsdRyxy+pkOfpPzO3HrSAph1HbEn/umBdw3P06/ vv2r03s94XMnHIUx1V7sIatXE4xVMAXZwxd9+1L5EITV7Btvd32tVfszsqw4L6mBwnHa 8U0w== Received: by 10.68.224.195 with SMTP id re3mr3503395pbc.90.1335270025619; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.242.146.126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id qq1sm11495880pbc.18.2012.04.24.05.20.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:20:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:50:12 +0530 Message-ID: <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Let me rephrase ideas in Xah's post - http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2012-04/msg00260.html. The recommendations involve, 1. "Menu->File->Visit New File" should be changed to "File->New". This will create an 'Untitled N' buffer. This will mark the buffer as `potentially-file-visiting'. Specifically it will not ask for the name of the file. 2. Introduce "File->Save as" will mark a `potentially-file-visiting' buffer as a `real-file-visiting-buffer'. 3. `potentially-file-visiting-buffer' should be queried for save on exit. Speaking of scratch buffer, -------------------------- Emacs has a notion of buffers that are *not* and *never will be (?)* file-visiting. Their only purpose is to do THROWAWAY work ("use and throw") with an understanding that Emacs will promise /not/ to annoy the user with "Should I save this THROWAWAY work? It seems valuable to me even though you think otherwise". (Hmm, I like the way Emacs gives primacy to throwaway work.) 1. It is useful to have scratch buffers. Though most users will have no use for it. 2. There could be mutliple user-created scratch buffers and they could be created in multiple programming lang modes, depending on user's needs. I think, -------- If Emacs *deduces* file-visitedness based on the name of the buffer, I think much of the problem could be elegantly dealt with. 1. C-x b => Create "Untitled N". It is potentially-file-visiting. Such buffers always queried on exit. 2. C-u C-x b => Creates "*throway-%s*". Note that the default offered to the user names the buffer specially with leading and trailing asterisks, These are non-file-visiting buffers. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Scratch buffer (Summary of Xah's proposals, as I see it) Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133527079116727 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:34:02 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 12:33:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50268 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMeve-0004Lj-US for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:33:11 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f42.google.com ([209.85.210.42]:44436) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMevY-0004LA-FH for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:33:09 -0400 Received: by dang27 with SMTP id g27so1016766dan.29 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:32:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=dIhLlZJtnhqRf+oUbmW5yxe73++hOEMnpr6pUVK7ZPQ=; b=c2YdymHUDaHcbGv8eLTtip8tM0HCLgTjOs+hINGLUg8QSLIUD4cniYIRhdT8z2SYh+ Z6yMBD0gZ0PC4+f9qtaM1+lWymVPWOJbK+7/h5yXt1WuUYKD7PxV64kx9wGV8vLLhh3w 7yPiZyuH5aU+dou3S6xQ5Y5f3dRLddOhQh6CuwcoDLbpO70sexKfHGHMS8Wl/dOhCnTk zo5wFuMbDWGq6cmS9gIqTU52Geu/Vl7h2s9tpLBKmbcaRrBXU3KL9GQ+4h8Vu93dB3E8 rM6MBGeh59/AfgqHEAYY46vs7txx1PYXY1q32mLVw8NX7dklSbHNEEAIom5tY3dJYpZa DfWg== Received: by 10.68.216.98 with SMTP id op2mr3568234pbc.93.1335270731595; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.242.146.126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ud10sm2821068pbc.25.2012.04.24.05.32.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:32:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:01:58 +0530 In-Reply-To: <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:50:12 +0530") Message-ID: <81vckpgvk1.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > If Emacs *deduces* file-visitedness based on the name of the buffer Let me elaborate on what I mean by "deduction". I think there is a rule (unwritten but understood?) on how non-file-visiting buffers are named. I think these rules can be entered in law books are recognized as a precedent that cannot be breached. In the new scheme, A buffer created with the name "testing" will be deemed as potentially-file-visiting, while one created with name "*testing*" will be treated as non-file-visiting. One has to just settle on the pattern of names that make a buffer non-file-visiting. Anything that doesn't match this pattern will be potentitally-file-visiting. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Recipe to surface *code-conversion-work* buffer Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: martin rudalics Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133527211218823 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 12:55:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMfGx-0004tX-M3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:55:12 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:62529) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMfGu-0004tJ-9P for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:55:10 -0400 Received: by pbbrp16 with SMTP id rp16so51341pbb.3 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:54:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=fIEXsVCvyPdXzlNW1qoK5x0wWE47uaUJd3gEtMdkQOs=; b=QLs6UUz1Xom59HLGzVTIYVbOuCZffl17q3MV6fqdbTTMpevepA4jjVwIm0TD2B8lic ivNY/MB73SGQKIrUj9gaJfntIv9VZt8hCDiwCqFjegCCVT/UH/6eJ2+1ZEVORJx6M03j gUSfUwSFs1DxQHgUe92bzQUBbaOrxPYToaLP3SmaKSnGGDIcYRKfK+OAz+zs1ZKUso9g H67c3C6D9KWHmir2hztOXSfi1PzM4xGi1S1/2jQXpL1XZqiLNu9BKDxIwq+ikHmgvgtG v4NVJDqrGARCtGjQ8eRq988n4BUIYpSzGMxdeDdgV4AD4c0A/Tnt0WhU/yJ9PilsLNme Xm5g== Received: by 10.68.232.8 with SMTP id tk8mr3677813pbc.25.1335272055281; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.242.146.126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wk6sm4590252pbc.15.2012.04.24.05.54.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 05:54:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <817gx5iehn.fsf@gmail.com> <4F9690ED.4020905@gmx.at> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:24:01 +0530 In-Reply-To: <4F9690ED.4020905@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:39:25 +0200") Message-ID: <81y5plqoie.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) martin rudalics writes: >>> This is my little excursion in to killing *scratch* (to death?) >> >> Now I am wondering whether: >> 1. *scratch* buffer re-generates itself > > It does because Emacs needs at least one buffer it can display. As a programmer, I understand the purpose scratch buffer serves. I also understand that a purpose has been "thrust upon it" to make it seem (passably) legitimate. Make that one-true-buffer, the Emacs splash screen or banner. Kill the banner, when (> buffer-count 0) Generated banner, when (zerop buffer-count) Instead of the banner buffer, one can replace it with an immutable, empty, no-name buffer. By immutable, I mean the user never does anything with it apart from "seeing it" when conditions so necessitate. > Is there anything bad about the behavior you observed? No. I wrote that mainly to confirm for myself what you observe above the need for atleast one buffer. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Jambunathan K' Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133527502123063 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:44:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 13:43:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMg1s-0005zt-27 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:43:40 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:48236) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMg1o-0005zb-0w for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:43:37 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q3ODgfHe015469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:42:41 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3ODgeET022822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:42:41 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q3ODgetx009080; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:42:40 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.223.238) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 06:42:40 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81r4vgq07a.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 06:42:36 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac0huyECUM8G2dt6STqWiEuODoCWmAAZGfag X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > But I don't see any `C-x b' scenario that leads to > > confirmation being required, if the option has the > > default value of `after-completion'. > > % emacs23 -Q > C-x b foo TAB RET > Asks for confirmation here. Yes, in Emacs 23.3, it does act as you describe: In GNU Emacs 23.3.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-03-10 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/imagesupport/include' But it does not here (Emacs 24 latest build, `emacs -Q'): In GNU Emacs 24.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-04-23 on MARVIN Bzr revision: 108006 agustin.martin@hispalinux.es-20120423103325-xmra3329elgzhmpc Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libiconv-1.13.1-1-dev/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libxml2-2.7.8/include/libxml2' From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Scratch buffer (Summary of Xah's proposals, as I see it) Resent-From: martin rudalics Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133527535323575 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 13:49:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50344 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMg7E-00068C-SJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:49:13 -0400 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]:33683) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMg7B-00067u-WD for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:49:11 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 24 Apr 2012 13:48:16 -0000 Received: from 62-47-50-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.50.32]) [62.47.50.32] by mail.gmx.net (mp040) with SMTP; 24 Apr 2012 15:48:16 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/JD0F0f3nJF2g8odyyfvINA2xGj6E5ppblkDZJmZ LJDe5Vc4ekecgt Message-ID: <4F96AF1D.2090806@gmx.at> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:48:13 +0200 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > Emacs has a notion of buffers that are *not* and *never will be (?)* > file-visiting. A user is always able to save _any_ buffer to a new file (if there's sufficient space) so the "*never will be (?)*" is not a valid notion. martin From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Scratch buffer (Summary of Xah's proposals, as I see it) Resent-From: "Jan D." Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133527710326534 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:19:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 14:18:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50845 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMgZS-0006tv-QR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:18:23 -0400 Received: from mailout.melmac.se ([62.20.26.67]:58578) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMgZP-0006tg-H2 for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:18:20 -0400 Received: from mail01.melmac.se (mail01.melmac.se [62.20.26.80]) by mailout.melmac.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD0B9793 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:17:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 27350 invoked by uid 89); 24 Apr 2012 14:13:46 -0000 Received: from h-46-59-42-18.na.cust.bahnhof.se (HELO coolsville.localdomain) (boel.djarv@bdtv.se@46.59.42.18) by mail01.melmac.se with ESMTPA; 24 Apr 2012 14:13:46 -0000 Received: from [10.225.40.70] (unknown [193.45.43.33]) by coolsville.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E3037FA06C; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:17:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4F96B5F3.5010304@swipnet.se> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:17:23 +0200 From: "Jan D." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) Jambunathan K skrev 2012-04-24 14:20: > > Let me rephrase ideas in Xah's post - > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2012-04/msg00260.html. > > The recommendations involve, > > 1. "Menu->File->Visit New File" should be changed to "File->New". This > will create an 'Untitled N' buffer. This will mark the buffer as > `potentially-file-visiting'. Specifically it will not ask for the > name of the file. > > 2. Introduce "File->Save as" will mark a `potentially-file-visiting' > buffer as a `real-file-visiting-buffer'. > > 3. `potentially-file-visiting-buffer' should be queried for save on > exit. > Giving a file name at 1. allows Emacs to set major mode. If there is just "Untitled N", the user would have to manually set major mode for all new files. This is not userfriendly. Jan D. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Scratch buffer (Summary of Xah's proposals, as I see it) Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Jan D." Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.13352848825797 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 16:28:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50973 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMiav-0001VN-6V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:28:01 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:52588) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMiat-0001VC-LR for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:28:00 -0400 Received: by pbbrp16 with SMTP id rp16so256961pbb.3 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:27:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=JfLeQkKwaMrLaMAd/xibYr8Um6URZfWEoILXiTxYSjQ=; b=u6M0if+hX0dpLvgSVK8icmvS8veI+uxXhTzvojjzJEpPZSu8WXBnDqEyfgupIYuVA0 LEMZbyvvO8R4gxQMKAnT5/Fp2biQteswZvtv+NoJkAppMSqV0B7POTw95QIsNSsmsTHE GO4/aP6+V5JB0YQs/3/eXQ1Z49HYhR9Da5Kng27hqwEGdaZmaGymjGf60ut1tILyx+ea GS+qGNxONBHF6crVIj2GsAx1bFzbI7s4gzs+cyqehpYfbnhbufp8/1fxH6ubrDF48C4q tV5NSmO/8PZhrQSb1FjZHdXJI5PrKDHc0FkgzOOw4G6lS7JCTbtvQk6qOHNke88HRbbv 50Pg== Received: by 10.68.202.234 with SMTP id kl10mr4910335pbc.52.1335284824636; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.241.87.44]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h10sm17792440pbh.69.2012.04.24.09.27.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:27:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> <4F96B5F3.5010304@swipnet.se> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:56:49 +0530 In-Reply-To: <4F96B5F3.5010304@swipnet.se> (Jan D.'s message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:17:23 +0200") Message-ID: <81vckp9jue.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) "Jan D." writes: > Jambunathan K skrev 2012-04-24 14:20: >> >> Let me rephrase ideas in Xah's post - >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2012-04/msg00260.html. >> >> The recommendations involve, >> >> 1. "Menu->File->Visit New File" should be changed to "File->New". This >> will create an 'Untitled N' buffer. This will mark the buffer as >> `potentially-file-visiting'. Specifically it will not ask for the >> name of the file. >> >> 2. Introduce "File->Save as" will mark a `potentially-file-visiting' >> buffer as a `real-file-visiting-buffer'. >> >> 3. `potentially-file-visiting-buffer' should be queried for save on >> exit. >> > > Giving a file name at 1. allows Emacs to set major mode. If there is > just "Untitled N", the user would have to manually set major mode for > all new files. This is not userfriendly. Does it matter what mode an empty or almost empty file is in? If a user wants to exploit facilities offered by a major mode he has to do a File->Save as. May be Emacs can query for the modes in which a buffer has to be opened? From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Scratch buffer (Summary of Xah's proposals, as I see it) Resent-From: Jambunathan K Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: martin rudalics Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.13352852576397 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 16:34:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50978 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMigz-0001f8-Eh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:34:17 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f42.google.com ([209.85.210.42]:55535) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMigx-0001et-8c for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:34:16 -0400 Received: by dang27 with SMTP id g27so1406698dan.29 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:33:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=m3XLr/hYxT2BBzM0NK+0BPOfQ1AAj2dtj1R4uSw4HBM=; b=kNWzFyw4Qf1789QZrgAMVxJohG3bkp3BzbtcWeFDm28KgwhtOd3Jy3stB2fX25k/KU SnzqnY18txZDcL8qVU8mUmU+R3OnAvZJLkPO/deoPJRAX2gW2j4+abb/t9IMDl5w4xH0 HM4a+XSwMnifR5sAzWHn1r12KLVRt8Ap2I9eH9xO7xubvMNcAGLKvXaUtpyKjhFeFQvw YrP1g9/Rhl43XJ6EoF6eVlU+3d7UGZEoeShSSOxY4uiqo9UhPpga8XOvVV8o1Ef0W/R4 pkYJOvJIy/6w258EY+Hw59jM47OSewldGrUjkoo2q+J0oIxrFe0cQIbTmOiHf67T3O0j db9Q== Received: by 10.68.212.163 with SMTP id nl3mr4932371pbc.112.1335285201294; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.241.87.44]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id vx4sm3472719pbc.73.2012.04.24.09.33.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:33:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> <4F96AF1D.2090806@gmx.at> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:03:06 +0530 In-Reply-To: <4F96AF1D.2090806@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:48:13 +0200") Message-ID: <81r4vd9jjx.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) martin rudalics writes: >> Emacs has a notion of buffers that are *not* and *never will be (?)* >> file-visiting. > > A user is always able to save _any_ buffer to a new file (if there's > sufficient space) so the "*never will be (?)*" is not a valid notion. What will be lost if Emacs forbids such a write? I can mark the buffer, switch to a file-visiting buffer and yank my scratch contents there. From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Scratch buffer (Summary of Xah's proposals, as I see it) Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133529298418077 (code B ref 11298); Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2012 18:43:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51095 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMkhb-0004hW-UW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:43:04 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:60366) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SMkhY-0004h6-C5 for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:43:01 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q3OIgBHK011334; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:42:11 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 183A3B4018; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:42:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:42:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:50:12 +0530") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4202=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4202> : streams <749801> : uri <1103156> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > The recommendations involve, > 1. "Menu->File->Visit New File" should be changed to "File->New". This > will create an 'Untitled N' buffer. This will mark the buffer as > `potentially-file-visiting'. Specifically it will not ask for the > name of the file. > 2. Introduce "File->Save as" will mark a `potentially-file-visiting' > buffer as a `real-file-visiting-buffer'. > 3. `potentially-file-visiting-buffer' should be queried for save on > exit. Other than "to do like others do", what would be the advantage? I see a bunch of disadvantages, starting with the choice of major-mode, the location of auto-save files, the VC state, etc... IOW, I think this is a case where the Emacs way is "objectively" superior, so I'd need pretty compelling evidence to add support for such "new file buffer whose file doesn't have a name yet". OTOH, I'd be happy to rename "Visit New File" to something like "New" (while keeping the behavior of requesting a file name) if that can help. > 2. There could be mutliple user-created scratch buffers and they could > be created in multiple programming lang modes, depending on user's > needs. While I can see users appreciating this feature, I think it'd be good enough to offer it via a package that users could elect to use. I.e. I'd be happy to accept patches needed to allow writing such a package, but as for having such a feature by default, I think it's over-engineering. In my mind, the *scratch* used to be a kind of slash screen, and it only exists now aside from the actual splash screen for historical reasons. So I think the best solution is to try and hide/eliminate the *scratch* buffer. Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11298: Scratch buffer (Summary of Xah's proposals, as I see it) Resent-From: "Jan D." Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11298 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jambunathan K Cc: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11298-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11298.133535732625113 (code B ref 11298); Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 11298) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Apr 2012 12:35:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51554 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SN1RN-0006Wn-A6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:35:26 -0400 Received: from mailout.melmac.se ([62.20.26.67]:35229) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SN1R9-0006W1-Ot for 11298@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:35:13 -0400 Received: from mail01.melmac.se (mail01.melmac.se [62.20.26.80]) by mailout.melmac.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20E692B8 for <11298@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:33:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 22350 invoked by uid 89); 25 Apr 2012 12:30:18 -0000 Received: from h-46-59-42-18.na.cust.bahnhof.se (HELO coolsville.localdomain) (boel.djarv@bdtv.se@46.59.42.18) by mail01.melmac.se with ESMTPA; 25 Apr 2012 12:30:18 -0000 Received: from [10.225.40.70] (unknown [193.45.43.33]) by coolsville.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3B2977FA06C; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:33:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4F97EF33.4090309@swipnet.se> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:33:55 +0200 From: "Jan D." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> <81397tiao3.fsf@gmail.com> <4F96B5F3.5010304@swipnet.se> <81vckp9jue.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <81vckp9jue.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.2 (-) Jambunathan K skrev 2012-04-24 18:26: > "Jan D." writes: >> >> Giving a file name at 1. allows Emacs to set major mode. If there is >> just "Untitled N", the user would have to manually set major mode for >> all new files. This is not userfriendly. > > Does it matter what mode an empty or almost empty file is in? Well, an empty file will be filled with something, be it Java, C, C++, Javascript, XML, SQL, Lisp or whatever. I seldom create empty files for random notes. > > If a user wants to exploit facilities offered by a major mode he has to > do a File->Save as. May be Emacs can query for the modes in which a > buffer has to be opened? Even Eclipse and Netbeans have the ability to specify file type when starting a new file. It sounds to me that what you really want is "Visit New Unknown File" or something like it. Jan D. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 10 15:09:39 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2012 19:09:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SSYk7-0004rZ-5X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 15:09:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:36035 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SSYk5-0004rS-0r for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 15:09:37 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SSYk3-0004KB-O2 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 15:09:35 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:09:35 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 11298 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) merge 1109 11298 From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jambunathan K Subject: bug#11298: closed (Re: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers) Message-ID: References: <8738myjlte.fsf@gmail.com> <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 11298 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 11298@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 05:07:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1384492024-8622-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1384492024-8622-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 11298@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 11298: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D11298 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1384492024-8622-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 11298-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2013 05:06:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VhBcL-0002EN-2S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 00:06:53 -0500 Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com ([209.85.192.172]:63605) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VhBcJ-0002E9-BY for 11298-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 00:06:51 -0500 Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id q10so2989280pdj.17 for <11298-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:06:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=J031GXewnaACqsprHRq7ZhAivpOG36ggI7TgI07VQ78=; b=KdKLBci84SPIu0iHLs23GRAPS1ei/rzdF8v9apYeWRtr4yOFCf4ZGD4htV7pF25WES xa/Z+J1u1G839KGg7B8JVqEgnhrNNmvl/qmNrPjVIQvsVbY7hd+9UssGLDZP4eGRFdlq O7TlE8bYari0FS6ndN59w417crS0btZ/LQRJU8/AA4CKY2+A9rpdPx8JF0lJ0Dz310IW BYLsnKsp8YQjTqMXXIjITXrAwX5iqw3sQ9XctfKVv3SiH0RB4dLptHIA23mxRT0f14aQ YXhABMgZOOtT3v16HERYUwiWWWvlr4OnxE8tqaM9vVCw2kC38NWxBOhDngwfEmAbOEOk qR7g== X-Received: by 10.68.143.196 with SMTP id sg4mr4981791pbb.155.1384492005776; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.241.27.214]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id so2sm1590626pbc.5.2013.11.14.21.06.43 for <11298-done@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:06:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jambunathan K To: 11298-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:36:21 +0530 In-Reply-To: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:25:16 +0530") Message-ID: <8738myjlte.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11298-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) OP here. Closed. ------------=_1384492024-8622-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2012 15:56:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45842 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcfd-0003bJ-1w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:56:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34768) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcfX-0003b3-9V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:56:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcet-0004So-Cy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:38 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:59087) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcet-0004Sj-70 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47852) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcep-0000HR-0H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcek-0004Pq-I6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:30 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f52.google.com ([209.85.210.52]:35881) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcek-0004Pk-8g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:55:26 -0400 Received: by dake40 with SMTP id e40so13067822dak.39 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:55:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=b5qWugwXWHAOxQ2US1VNgtkaMQ+bJsfZ+M0laVb8Zw0=; b=py/TkJqcBwqJiGbodeC1F1we5SJ/0DvwqnVjnnXDLQI3T3kJUZ0emSSpMzoCpDS9/U bUwW8QtYm9QnYxRQmIRZdaLUupAnyZAed83htVmJ1dWjrzyyTE9l8/ZSb1HOZ8fG/0mN 208R+9J7C9qosjdwtKOQ0k6LaVfeAz9gPx33wba0iZvcEGLIl1DJ95GTF9g9uXtyV5vz Nt544PG+MzW+7zCS7GsxjM3HjsSJEIHINYORBQlQjclvuYMQlXLdVaz6bQ/asFDYOn60 h27qNycjp4uM3xHLnXMHb0fyp9oOF9H/5lBblW3KpjNg7ASFTPHknBjE2XBKRv2elp9+ vULw== Received: by 10.68.136.162 with SMTP id qb2mr22153115pbb.67.1335023724089; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAMBU-NETBOOK ([115.242.225.216]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gz3sm169221pbc.3.2012.04.21.08.55.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:55:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jambunathan K To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:25:16 +0530 Message-ID: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) Feel free to close it or add to it. An exact copy of my post in help-gnu-emacs. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2012-04/msg00332.html Increasingly, I am feeling the need for multiple scratch buffers. By default, my scratch buffer is in emacs-lisp mode. Some times, I switch that scratch buffer to Org-mode when I create lists, tables or just copy-paste some plain text from interwebs purely for reasons of wrapping/filling. 1. Allow multiple scratch buffers one for each mode the user is interested in. The defcustom can have a solitary text-mode entry. A user wanting no scratch buffer at all can null-ify the mode list. A user like me can add emacs-lisp-mode and org-mode to it. 2. Just in case I need a one-off scratch buffer, I need a quick way to create it without having to think of (or type) out the full name Or confirm my intentions (This latter part is *very* annoying). C-u C-x b can offer to create *scratch-%s* (or %s-scratch) in %s-mode. 3. I think it is not the scratch buffer that is idiosyncratic but the /name/. Instead of using scratch one could call it say a notes buffer or a temp buffer. That said I am happy with the way things are. I know how to kill my scratch buffer and I also know how to create multiple ones if needed. I also know how to type 'y' if prompted :-). ------------=_1384492024-8622-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:42:47 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.503) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: xah lee Subject: bug#1109: closed (Re: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers) Message-ID: References: <8738myjlte.fsf@gmail.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 1109 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 1109@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 05:07:05 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1384492025-8622-3" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1384492025-8622-3 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #11298: Suggestions on emacs's scratch buffer which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 1109@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 11298: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D11298 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1384492025-8622-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 11298-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2013 05:06:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VhBcL-0002EN-2S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 00:06:53 -0500 Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com ([209.85.192.172]:63605) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VhBcJ-0002E9-BY for 11298-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 00:06:51 -0500 Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id q10so2989280pdj.17 for <11298-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:06:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=J031GXewnaACqsprHRq7ZhAivpOG36ggI7TgI07VQ78=; b=KdKLBci84SPIu0iHLs23GRAPS1ei/rzdF8v9apYeWRtr4yOFCf4ZGD4htV7pF25WES xa/Z+J1u1G839KGg7B8JVqEgnhrNNmvl/qmNrPjVIQvsVbY7hd+9UssGLDZP4eGRFdlq O7TlE8bYari0FS6ndN59w417crS0btZ/LQRJU8/AA4CKY2+A9rpdPx8JF0lJ0Dz310IW BYLsnKsp8YQjTqMXXIjITXrAwX5iqw3sQ9XctfKVv3SiH0RB4dLptHIA23mxRT0f14aQ YXhABMgZOOtT3v16HERYUwiWWWvlr4OnxE8tqaM9vVCw2kC38NWxBOhDngwfEmAbOEOk qR7g== X-Received: by 10.68.143.196 with SMTP id sg4mr4981791pbb.155.1384492005776; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.241.27.214]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id so2sm1590626pbc.5.2013.11.14.21.06.43 for <11298-done@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:06:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jambunathan K To: 11298-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#11298: 24.0.95; (WISH) Re-look scratch buffers References: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:36:21 +0530 In-Reply-To: <81397xm657.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:25:16 +0530") Message-ID: <8738myjlte.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11298-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) OP here. Closed. ------------=_1384492025-8622-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From xah@xahlee.org Tue Oct 7 07:32:35 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Oct 2008 14:32:35 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m97EWV3x017547 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2008 07:32:32 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KnDby-0006na-NV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:32:30 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KnDbv-0006ml-83 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:32:29 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=57849 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KnDbv-0006mi-3t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:32:27 -0400 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195]:60826) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KnDbu-0005qf-OT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:32:26 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-24-6-185-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.185.159]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKpCa-1KnDbi2Vpg-0005FX; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:32:16 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: xah lee Subject: Suggestions on emacs's scratch buffer Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 07:31:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+jEoTCwBcCqfAvuzmDEOfGU3zflv7apgZjVkw IAtAxowt99Z0yLiOmF0otXYV4H7OcvFFZxwpCQ3MSWgCFPo/2y dumiymY89yTFkMIrJY5kg== X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) Hi emacs developers, Here's a suggestion on emacs scratch buffer i thought might be =20 interesting. Last month there's a maybe 200 messages flamefeast in gnu.emacs.help =20 on this issue. I am not sure this suggestion about removing *scratch* buffer is =20 sensible to most emacs developers, but i thought i'd put it in bug =20 database for what's its worth. The full article of my reasons and suggestions is at: http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization_scratch_buffer.html plain text version follows below my sig. Thanks for your consideration. Best, Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84 --------------------------------------------- Suggestions on Emacs's Scratch Buffer Xah Lee, 2008-09 In the article The Modernization of Emacs, i suggested that emacs's =20 =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D buffer be removed. In this article, i give = some detail =20 about it. In the article, i gave the following as primary reasons that scratch =20 buffer should be removed: =E2=80=A2 It is not useful by 99% of letter writers. If they wanted = a =20 scratch pad, they can open a new document and not save it. This way =20 is familiar to all software users. =E2=80=A2 The =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9Cbuffer=E2=80=9D = is primarily designed for =20 elisp programers. (it defaults to lisp mode) Majority of people who =20 use emacs are not lisp coders. For lisp coders, they can easily =20 customize their emacs to have a =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D = =E2=80=9Cbuffer=E2=80=9D. =E2=80=A2 The =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9Cbuffer=E2=80=9D = is a intrusive idiosyncrasy. =20 It is persistent, cannot be closed (it regenerates). It is foreign to =20= all programers. This idiosyncrasy is the first thing presented to =20 users, and it persists. Here are few minor reasons: =E2=80=A2 There is no easy, intuitive way to create multiple = scratch =20 buffers. (it is done by using the switch-to-buffer command (C-x b) =20 and give name that is not one of existing buffers.) =E2=80=A2 When the scratch buffer is closed, emacs does not prompt = user =20 to save it. This easily causes data loss. =E2=80=A2 A scratch pad can be very useful not just for temporary = elisp =20 code but for any scratch notes or programing in other languages. (For =20= example, well known programer Stevey Yegg in his popular Effective =20 Emacs=E2=86=97 blog list it as a top 10 tip in emacs productivity.) =20 Emacs's =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D buffer is narrowly geared for elisp = editing =20 only, defaulting to emacs-lisp-mode. =E2=80=A2 Emacs does not provide a user level function to create a = new =20 buffer. It has menu =E2=80=9CFile=E2=80=A3Open file...=E2=80=9D (a = wrapper to the find-=20 file command), which immediately prompt user for a full file path. =20 This is annoying. Modern apps's New File command actually just create =20= a new untitled file without prompting, and only when user save it it =20 prompt a file name. If user closes it, it prompts for saving. Proposed Fix I propose that emacs should also add a menu command =E2=80=9CNew = buffer=E2=80=9D, =20 with the keyboard shortcut =E2=80=9CCtrl+n=E2=80=9D. Once called, it = should create =20 a scratch buffer titled =E2=80=9Cuntitled=E2=80=9D. If one already = exists, append =20 numbers such =E2=80=9Cuntitled 2=E2=80=9D. Here are the reasons: =E2=80=A2 The menu command =E2=80=9CNew=E2=80=9D is a widely = adopted standard among =20 apps across Mac, Windows, unixes. It is familiar to all software users. =E2=80=A2 The Ctrl+n shortcut for New is standard and familiar to = all =20 software users. =E2=80=A2 A New Buffer command (where the corresponding elisp = command =20 name might be named new-empty-buffer), can completely cover the =20 functionality of emacs's =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D buffer. =E2=80=A2 When users want to have a scratch buffer, he can create = it by =20 simply pressing the shortcut, and when he doesn't want it, he can =20 simply close it with a standard keystroke Ctrl+w. =E2=80=A2 By adopting the New Buffer and Ctrl+n, users can = intuitively =20 create multiple scratch buffers for any purpose. =E2=80=A2 The name =E2=80=9Cuntitled=E2=80=9D is conventional, far = more widely =20 understood, and more general than =E2=80=9Cscratch=E2=80=9D. =E2=80=A2 For those who use scratch buffer for elisp coding, she = can =20 set a preference (e.g. emacs customize feature) so that the new =20 buffer default to emacs-lisp-mode. =E2=80=A2 Adopting the suggestion would fix several problems for = those =20 who actually use emacs's =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D buffer. (1) emacs = no longer =20 mysteriously spawn a =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D when emacs starts, or = respawn =20 the =E2=80=9C*scratch*=E2=80=9D buffer when user tries to close all = buffers. (2) =20 Multiple scratch buffers can be created by a keyboard shortcut. (3) =20 Data lose is prevented because closing a scratch buffer will prompt =20 for save. Note: the proposed keybinding =E2=80=9CCtrl+n=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CCtrl+w= =E2=80=9D need not =20 be part of this proposal because emacs already use =E2=80=9CCtrl+n=E2=80=9D= and =20 =E2=80=9CCtrl+w=E2=80=9D for basic cursor movement and cut. However, it = could be =20 adapted in conjunction with newly designed Ergonomic Keybinding. (see =20= below) Draft Implementation The above suggestion is experimentally implemented in my Ergonomic =20 Keyboard Shortcut Layout For Emacs. The following are the elisp files. =E2=80=A2 ergonomic_keybinding_dvorak.el. =E2=80=A2 ergonomic_keybinding_qwerty.el. Some detail about the implementation: =E2=80=A2 create-new-buffer will create a new empty buffer named =20= =E2=80=9Cuntitled=E2=80=9D. (this should be added to the menu under = =E2=80=9CFile=E2=80=A3New =20 Buffer=E2=80=9D but i haven't done that yet.) =E2=80=A2 create-new-buffer has standard keyboard shortcut Ctrl+n. =E2=80=A2 elisp command close-current-buffer will close the current = =20 buffer, and if it is a buffer not associated with a file (such as =20 =E2=80=9Cuntitled=E2=80=9D), it'll ask user to save (unless it has no = content) =E2=80=A2 close-current-buffer has the standard keyboard shortcut = Ctrl+w. =E2=80=A2 close-current-buffer should have menu under =20 =E2=80=9CFile=E2=80=A3Close=E2=80=9D, but it is not currently done. The = existing =20 =E2=80=9CFile=E2=80=A3Close=E2=80=9D menu command in emacs 22.2 calls = kill-this-buffer, =20 which has 2 problems. (1) it doesn't have a shortcut. (2) it doesn't =20 ask users to save a buffer that are not associated with file (in =20 effect, any text in the buffer is irreversibly lost immediately). The =20= standard emacs command used to close a file is kill-buffer (Ctrl+x =20 k). It has a major problem of prompting user even if the file is =20 already saved. I have been using the above code daily since late 2007, with =20 incremental improvement and bug fixes. i'm sure it can use a lot more =20= polishing for public use. The code is GPL'd, so feel free to grab =20 pieces for your own use or submit into GNU. =E2=98=84 ------------=_1384492025-8622-3--