From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:14:44 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#11297 <11297@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#11297 <11297@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.1.50; `report-emacs-bug': help, TAB Reply-To: bug#11297 <11297@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 03:14:44 +0000 retitle 11297 24.1.50; `report-emacs-bug': help, TAB reassign 11297 emacs submitter 11297 "Drew Adams" severity 11297 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 21 11:29:54 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2012 15:29:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45824 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcG1-0002zK-Fe for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:29:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51177) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcFy-0002z6-D6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:29:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcFM-0003L3-NS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:29:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:46932) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcFM-0003Kz-Jq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:29:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56377) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcFK-0000WH-MV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:29:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcFI-0003Kn-ER for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:29:10 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:43366) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLcFI-0003Kc-7y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:29:08 -0400 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q3LFT3LO017908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:29:04 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3LFT33S025720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:29:03 GMT Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q3LFT38i020989 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:29:03 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.63.181) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:29:02 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.1.50; `report-emacs-bug': help, TAB Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:28:56 -0700 Message-ID: <531DF00274A246298C1665C5E6879AE3@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac0f03cdPP0SMSoPSy+GdOc/mb025Q== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4F92D240.01AC,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) 1. Since Emacs 23, TAB in the bug-reporting buffer is bound to `message-tab'. Before that it was bound to `indent-for-tab-command'. The doc string of `message-tab' really should say what `TAB' does in the typical case where it is pressed in such a buffer. Instead, it says what TAB does when in a message header (but without ever saying clearly that that is what it is describing). And then it sends readers packing for info about what it does in the actual message body they are writing. The last sentence is all readers have in this regard: "Execute function specified by `message-tab-body-function' when not in those headers." There is no indication of what "those headers" refers to, but with a little guessing, especially if you follow the links to look up `message-completion-alist' and `message-tab-body-function', you can perhaps figure out that (a) the first part of the doc string only describes TAB in message headers and (b) in the body, TAB does what it does in the `text-mode-map' or the `global-map'. That's a lot of runaround and not very helpful. Those two bits of info should at the very least be reversed: Say first what TAB does in the body of the message, which is 99% of what users write. Then say that TAB in a header completes a header field. Better would be to just start out by saying that by default TAB in the body does `indent-for-tab-command' for regular text. Details about the actual command coming from `text-mode-map' or `global-map' can follow that. It is important for users to realize that (a) TAB generally does what it does for regular text and (b) they can change the buffer mode temporarily to make it act differently. E.g., to edit a Lisp snippet they can use `M-x emacs-lisp-mode'. For (b), they must be made aware that to actually send the message (`C-c C-c') they must return to `message-mode' or use `M-x message-send-and-exit'. 2. All of the information we provide to users about writing a bug report should be consolidated in the same place. Some is now in the separate little `*Bug Help*' buffer that is popped up (why?), and some is in the message buffer itself (why?), even though it does not get included in the message that is sent. That separation makes little sense, unless I'm missing something. Users should have all of the help in the same place, and it should include help about writing a bug report and help about sending that report as a mail message. One possibility would be to have a single sentence telling you to hit some key, or providing a link, which would show all of the help. But if you really want to fill the buffer with the help text for some reason, that will work too. And as mentioned above, the help info we provide should also mention that you can change the mode but that you must return to `message-mode' to use `C-c C-c'. (Too bad about that, BTW.) Bug reports often include snippets of Emacs Lisp or code from other modes. It might not be obvious to some users that they can do this, that they need not edit the code somewhere else and then yank the final, edited snippet to the message buffer. In GNU Emacs 24.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-04-19 on MARVIN Bzr revision: 107968 monnier@iro.umontreal.ca-20120419220225-gijdcbfxuiqy5dhb Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libiconv-1.13.1-1-dev/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libxml2-2.7.8/include/libxml2' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 23:40:58 2014 Received: (at 11297) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2014 04:40:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58841 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCMCQ-0002vF-Bq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:40:58 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:45458) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCMCO-0002v7-62 for 11297@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:40:56 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WCMC9-0005Qt-Ki; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 05:40:42 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#11297: 24.1.50; `report-emacs-bug': help, TAB References: <531DF00274A246298C1665C5E6879AE3@us.oracle.com> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 20:39:31 -0800 In-Reply-To: <531DF00274A246298C1665C5E6879AE3@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:28:56 -0700") Message-ID: <87a9e0ew70.fsf@building.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1WCMC9-0005Qt-Ki X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392525642.2078@4j3OvZk4mugy4S7AfxI7pg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11297 Cc: 11297@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) "Drew Adams" writes: > 1. Since Emacs 23, TAB in the bug-reporting buffer is bound to > `message-tab'. Before that it was bound to `indent-for-tab-command'. > > The doc string of `message-tab' really should say what `TAB' does in the > typical case where it is pressed in such a buffer. Fixed on trunk. > 2. All of the information we provide to users about writing a bug report > should be consolidated in the same place. Some is now in the separate > little `*Bug Help*' buffer that is popped up (why?), and some is in the > message buffer itself (why?), even though it does not get included in > the message that is sent. The stuff that's in the separate buffer is help that should be visible during the entire bug reporting editing session, while the stuff in the buffer itself it just stuff you should read through. So I think this makes sense. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 23:41:03 2014 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2014 04:41:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58845 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCMCV-0002vv-Lc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:41:03 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:45464) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCMCT-0002vW-R5 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:41:02 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WCMCF-0005R0-MK for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 05:40:48 +0100 Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 20:39:36 -0800 Message-Id: <878utkew6v.fsf@building.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #11297 X-MailScanner-ID: 1WCMCF-0005R0-MK X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392525648.43639@9zGn4AGa48plsaj26cIZxg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 11297 24.4 From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:14:44 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:24:09 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator