From unknown Sat Aug 09 21:22:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11205: 24.0.95; starttls-use-gnutls no longer being honored Resent-From: nyc4bos@aol.com Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 00:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 11205 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 11205@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.133393297718957 (code B ref -1); Mon, 09 Apr 2012 00:57:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2012 00:56:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45733 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SH2u1-0004vh-3q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:56:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39082) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SH2tx-0004vZ-EK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:56:15 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SH2t4-0000eS-Pt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:55:20 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:48142) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SH2t4-0000eM-KT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:55:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40702) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SH2t2-0003MG-OW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:55:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SH2t0-0000e4-Kk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:55:16 -0400 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144]:42645) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SH2t0-0000e0-9q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:55:14 -0400 Received: from mtaout-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.66]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q390t7le032193 for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2012 20:55:07 -0400 Received: from STATION03 (173-13-86-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.13.86.254]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id ADBFCE00012F for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2012 20:55:06 -0400 (EDT) From: nyc4bos@aol.com Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:54:56 -0400 Message-ID: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1333932907; bh=AM3mzkOWPTz3/rNIlWnG8O1jwP4cQ56Ef22JO799Pxw=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=sOdd1bGndO5eDsJETfJXR4sZ2UIHoM6TxepmfZYnch2ms+c8E9bf9XnvxuCn+pGYc SlFM9/Av29jF6OGuDP/wZvNCohmCuI9ejzs9lO/kwyyGepBr3+pJOlyF1BpTYJMEUA jGB5g4q5Ghlwd0oy1Oi13tF5AwY7xLXZDoCC8jK8= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:471655552:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29424f82336a2dbc X-AOL-IP: 173.13.86.254 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) It appears that the variable `starttls-use-gnutls' is no longer honored with builtin GnuTLS support I start Emacs (-Q) and set the following variables: (setq starttls-program "openssl") (setq tls-program '("openssl s_client -connect %h:%p -no_ssl2 -ign_eof")) (setq starttls-use-gnutls nil) (setq gnutls-log-level 1) I then try to run a popular Emacs program that uses the network, Gnus. First, I setup my Gnus variables and startup Gnus. I then see in the *Messages* buffer: gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) allocating credentials gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) gnutls callbacks gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) gnutls_init gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) got non-default priority string: NORMAL gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) setting the priority string which I means that Emacs is using the builtin GnuTLS support. I rechecked the value of `starttls-use-gnutls': starttls-use-gnutls is a variable defined in `starttls.el'. Its value is nil How do I get Gnus (and presumably other Emacs networked programs) to not use GnuTLS when `starttls-use-gnutls' is nil? [Presumably, I can make the GnuTLS DLLs unavailable temporarily to achive this, but setting the variable `starttls-use-gnutls' to nil used to accomplish this, i.e. this is a regression.] Thanks. In GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-04-02 on MARVIN Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_US value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: cp949 default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Summary Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: Recent messages: gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) gnutls_init gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) got non-default priority string: NORMAL gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) setting the priority string Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail regexp-opt rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 disp-table ls-lisp w32-win w32-vars tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process multi-tty emacs) From unknown Sat Aug 09 21:22:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11205: 24.0.95; starttls-use-gnutls no longer being honored Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 01:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11205 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: nyc4bos@aol.com Cc: 11205@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11205-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11205.133393353419827 (code B ref 11205); Mon, 09 Apr 2012 01:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 11205) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Apr 2012 01:05:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45745 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SH330-00059j-48 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 21:05:34 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:56043) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SH32x-00059Z-3c for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 21:05:32 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SH323-0005bL-MI; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 21:04:35 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> X-Spook: ASLET Geraldton national information infrastructure X-Ran: #>%o^=Rtt#JJhm,Y/XE4N8y{o6$U;g"U:BXc())p$4fs-I}>/w7nW?|Y6(W}XrHop>DF'[ X-Hue: cyan X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 21:04:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> (nyc4bos@aol.com's message of "Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:54:56 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) nyc4bos@aol.com wrote: > How do I get Gnus (and presumably other Emacs networked programs) to > not use GnuTLS when `starttls-use-gnutls' is nil? etc/NEWS *** SMTPmail now uses encrypted connections (via STARTTLS) by default if the mail server supports them. This uses either built-in GnuTLS support, or the starttls.el library. Customize `smtpmail-stream-type' to change this. > [Presumably, I can make the GnuTLS DLLs unavailable temporarily to > achive this, but setting the variable `starttls-use-gnutls' to nil > used to accomplish this, i.e. this is a regression.] No previous release of Emacs has had built-in GnuTLS support. From unknown Sat Aug 09 21:22:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11205: 24.0.95; starttls-use-gnutls no longer being honored Resent-From: nyc4bos@aol.com Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 03:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11205 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: 11205@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11205-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11205.133402706225976 (code B ref 11205); Tue, 10 Apr 2012 03:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 11205) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2012 03:04:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47714 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHRNW-0006ku-8F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:04:22 -0400 Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.143]:59074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHRNR-0006ki-Qs for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:04:20 -0400 Received: from mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.70]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q3A33EEa000436; Mon, 9 Apr 2012 23:03:14 -0400 Received: from STATION03 (173-13-86-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.13.86.254]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 20528E000086; Mon, 9 Apr 2012 23:03:14 -0400 (EDT) From: nyc4bos@aol.com In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 08 Apr 2012 21:04:35 -0400") References: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:03:08 -0400 Message-ID: <847gxomgpf.fsf@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1334026994; bh=PJ1jPJXjyGTR2T8ZQy2l9ffhRwAkdDzMIvQ49Qqu5ak=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Y9yb05Ah9kv4MtvpN8QbcpjsijCziZyazRkLNk3GMUxWKeec7CtMSf7u5gpo90C6O 0U8eu0FfYvwRuB6L/MpDApHXMRfkG+T1D96ibfajJaZdiVAtOD171+1GYt77b/kbiG UCGmJ1d+tEieUldkVtuja5wc+ch13EXLV6kQj5y4= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:483708352:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29464f83a2f2677e X-AOL-IP: 173.13.86.254 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Glenn Morris writes: > nyc4bos@aol.com wrote: > >> How do I get Gnus (and presumably other Emacs networked programs) to >> not use GnuTLS when `starttls-use-gnutls' is nil? > > etc/NEWS > > *** SMTPmail now uses encrypted connections (via STARTTLS) by default > if the mail server supports them. This uses either built-in GnuTLS > support, or the starttls.el library. Customize `smtpmail-stream-type' > to change this. As my test of an Emacs networked-using package like Gnus, I set my Gnus variables to ONLY use NNTP, not SMTP (nor any other mail-related protocols like IMAP) My Gnus variable are: (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news" (nntp-address "news.gmane.org") Here is the *Message* buffer demostrating the results: gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) GnuTLS library loaded: libgnutls-28.dll gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) allocating credentials gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) gnutls callbacks gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) gnutls_init gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) got non-default priority string: NORMAL gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) setting the priority string news.gmane.org certificate could not be verified. gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) certificate signer was not found: news.gmane.org gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) certificate validation failed: news.gmane.org news.gmane.org is the newserver (NNTP). Thus the setting of `smtpmail-stream-type' doesn't apply. It applies only when SENDING mail (SMTP) when smtpmail.el is loaded and used. At least, I don't believe it is loaded/used until I compose a mail or news message and (perhaps) message.el or something else loads smtpmail.el. I don't believe customizing `smtpmail-stream-type` helps me in this situation (not using built-in GnuTLS) unless I'm sending mail or news. > >> [Presumably, I can make the GnuTLS DLLs unavailable temporarily to >> achive this, but setting the variable `starttls-use-gnutls' to nil >> used to accomplish this, i.e. this is a regression.] > > No previous release of Emacs has had built-in GnuTLS support. That's true, but setting `starttls-use-gnutls' to nil prevented (external) GnuTLS (gnutls-cli) from being used in released versions of Emacs. Therefore, I believe that this is a regression with regards to Emacs 23.x since GnuTLS (whether built-in or external) is being used when 'starttls-use-gnutls' is nil. I believe the value of `starttls-program' (openssl, for one exmple of a user setting this value) should be used instead, regardless of built-in GnuTLS being compiled in (and its required DLLs being available), as it used to be in Emacs 23.x. Thanks. From unknown Sat Aug 09 21:22:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11205: 24.0.95; starttls-use-gnutls no longer being honored Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11205 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: nyc4bos@aol.com Cc: 11205@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11205-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11205.133407991025125 (code B ref 11205); Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 11205) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2012 17:45:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49161 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHf7t-0006X9-0U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:45:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:40589) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHf7n-0006Wr-TS for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:45:05 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SHf6l-0008F9-PP; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:43:59 -0400 From: Glenn Morris References: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> <847gxomgpf.fsf@aol.com> X-Spook: halcon Europol Qaddafi AGT. AMME warfare Merlin CIA X-Ran: wh@"{5WPy3Z}S!CU'-1--qP/e2jAn7.N+ZiI)\^#,dE6FG9hQ^+4DjZG#^2[B-x|9gdVj, X-Hue: cyan X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:43:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <847gxomgpf.fsf@aol.com> (nyc4bos@aol.com's message of "Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:03:08 -0400") Message-ID: <7j4nsrtrc0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) You could always try redefining gnutls-available-p to return nil, eg: (defalias 'gnutls-available-p 'ignore) I confess I don't really understand what you are trying to do, or why it matters if the internal support is used. Hopefully someone else can help. From unknown Sat Aug 09 21:22:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11205: 24.0.95; starttls-use-gnutls no longer being honored Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11205 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: nyc4bos@aol.com, 11205@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11205-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11205.133408053726217 (code B ref 11205); Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 11205) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2012 17:55:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49191 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHfI0-0006on-4O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:55:36 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:40085) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHfHy-0006og-O3 for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:55:35 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHfGs-0005XQ-Ae; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:54:26 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen References: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> <847gxomgpf.fsf@aol.com> <7j4nsrtrc0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEULBQf+/vX68N3YyLju 4M8JBAUHAgP9+eYUDA6Ba1vND1piAAACMElEQVQ4jYWUoc7rMAyFTTKFDpVHk/YAHSntnwcIcXRh Scs7EhpypRaXLG97j53sb9nNpG3KV/t4ts/orie9nXPeyXmuekMneHjvR+fS/QRdh3uvZ3TPdAFJ rn/6XlDLJaB7vx++bwckfUFy5z3IqCEkAe5y37+QrAIIIP1Q5BxCxgo6FRjKJmcvIJqL1u6NAL0n i7dDVBSkBxLhnvRs+4FcAtIbYPi0eyG/wEsAUWgAyV4QoQTp4ZNNZDK4ZwnpEUKSqWwmBDJM8rII GdOdHMAnxymTMYaXmcgWFJwIxQ4fE5fJzBzMbQpsVZ7QjmEzMbIxFLJhw2E7BIhEjnGCSEaaGyME Iit5ARwXNrSBMA5E/FMiIBHjjF9Am0Vd/GcXoNqohqVRmW4RNew1QkCczSZEHgm0Hw1wQAR6vm0W HbgAY+IcbAW3IGBM5AAI6iRzygHl2gY8QLhNZssATPNEAp40VnEzW4jnGd9MBZLqL8eIcaCPUjci etVAc1lqyYSPBU/Y/aUa0hIOKCbEuCwLQGndxWCZpUy0bIno5PFybR4YEqOLObBoSdsbyBQwWIgj DBKHB5BlKL/Lk2VPiiwpJR1hDl+EnwOJtS7cZd9047zs1VpzySzIZspWJy7bnlQewFpNhLlirQSI n8pHm4ttw1L7b4QYpxI1yAsSqxgnOTWCOqcUNWGzWvWgWq2oB1O1WkrNnIM68HRtQl1iz9Pn/wco +Odi8/rP0KX2B3NGKPkHIkEooHPI2L8AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Digital Mystikz's _Return II Space_: "Pop Pop Epic" Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:54:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7j4nsrtrc0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:43:59 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130004 (Ma Gnus v0.4) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1SHfGs-0005XQ-Ae X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1334685266.44539@bN64ch5qX9+JCTzQmQL+gA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Glenn Morris writes: > You could always try redefining gnutls-available-p to return nil, eg: > > (defalias 'gnutls-available-p 'ignore) Yes. In any case, this is neither a regression, nor a bug. The variable in question controls what external program is used; not whether to use an external program or not. So I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 10 13:55:45 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2012 17:55:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49194 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHfI8-0006p9-UK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:55:45 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:40092) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHfI6-0006oy-IS for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:55:43 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SHfGz-0005Xo-T5 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:54:33 +0200 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:54:33 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #11205 X-MailScanner-ID: 1SHfGz-0005Xo-T5 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1334685274.80178@Jg4b8rloIiw3UzciUPG+Lw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) tags 11205 notabug close 11205 From unknown Sat Aug 09 21:22:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11205: 24.0.95; starttls-use-gnutls no longer being honored Resent-From: nyc4bos@aol.com Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 20:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11205 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Cc: Glenn Morris , 11205@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11205-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11205.133495251419875 (code B ref 11205); Fri, 20 Apr 2012 20:09:01 +0000 Received: (at 11205) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Apr 2012 20:08:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44689 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLK86-0005AO-Fh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:08:34 -0400 Received: from imr-ma01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.39]:49077) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SLK80-0005A8-3H for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:08:28 -0400 Received: from mtaout-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.68]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q3KK7loM026393; Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:07:47 -0400 Received: from STATION03 (173-13-86-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.13.86.254]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 7277EE000253; Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:07:46 -0400 (EDT) From: nyc4bos@aol.com References: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> <847gxomgpf.fsf@aol.com> <7j4nsrtrc0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:07:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:54:25 +0200") Message-ID: <84fwby88vo.fsf@aol.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.95 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1334952467; bh=BlcHYEOxN17yTHq5bcsuVQRwCOyjgXZeozqMOs//ckg=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=yZrkQqF9DCGqD14mo9tyPAudLXPD52OesDejtAxlBm6mruEZ5xSiYR6Aq2CAXL+LS 5j1Po1k8L7rmqQjg6FsZJgjeEA7daoaIQfmWMOb96VjmsJPgbavotjEPb9ZzznpNNr +Bkfalr/3M7XnoS5u3rZEVR4gLLwZLOgBiycSgSI= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:416272736:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29444f91c2122522 X-AOL-IP: 173.13.86.254 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Glenn Morris writes: > >> You could always try redefining gnutls-available-p to return nil, eg: >> >> (defalias 'gnutls-available-p 'ignore) > > Yes. In any case, this is neither a regression, nor a bug. The > variable in question controls what external program is used; not whether > to use an external program or not. So I'm closing this bug report. The variable, `starttls-use-gnutls' docstring says: "*Whether to use GnuTLS instead of the `starttls' command." So if I'm understanding the docstring right, if it is nil, whatever is the `starttls' command should be used, NOT GnuTLS. [The defcustom really says: (defcustom starttls-use-gnutls (not (executable-find starttls-program)))] This appears to me to be a regression since setting `starttls-use-gnustls' to nil still uses GnuTLS (when `starttls-program' is accessible), unlike Emacs 23.4. At a minimum, this is a documentation bug with regard to Emacs 24. Can you explain to me why should a user now jump through more hoops to use another program such as OpenSSL, in order to use TLS? Setting `starttls-use-gnutls' to nil works just fine in Emacs 23.4 Thanks. From unknown Sat Aug 09 21:22:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11205: 24.0.95; starttls-use-gnutls no longer being honored Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 19:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11205 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: nyc4bos@aol.com Cc: Glenn Morris , 11205@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11205-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11205.133693689619445 (code B ref 11205); Sun, 13 May 2012 19:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 11205) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 May 2012 19:21:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1STeMK-00053a-Dx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 May 2012 15:21:36 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]:37449) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1STeMH-00053Q-Fn for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 May 2012 15:21:34 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out03.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0M3Z00NV673F3E90@get-mta-out03.get.basefarm.net> for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 May 2012 21:21:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id 277051EA7F8C_FB009ABB for <11205@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 13 May 2012 19:21:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 027A51EA7F5F_FB009ABF for <11205@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 13 May 2012 19:21:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from stories.gnus.org ([84.215.51.58]) by get-mta-in03.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0M3Z00A9373EKH40@get-mta-in03.get.basefarm.net> for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 May 2012 21:21:14 +0200 (MEST) From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen References: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> <847gxomgpf.fsf@aol.com> <7j4nsrtrc0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <84fwby88vo.fsf@aol.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAMFBMVEUzIR7r33mNQ3OTdk11 p3v4+PDi2orVxFJ3XFL////+//5cU1VHDBxwNTDk5N3W1LvhHu9UAAAA3UlEQVQ4jWPYF/cOG4hj 4JuJHTDw45SY9e/dv5VYJPhmvXs1C5sOvpmrsKgH6/j3D+iKSCwS/9+/xG4UGKAaN2vmSiz+mPo9 ZeNmJSwS85Sr2XkvYZFYh0uCdB2kS2DaMQuLjikdCNCPLDHv/f8zMHAe1aj5DDDAjyZhbHsXAq6h Sswrh4EyYiVcYMCfdhJKMKCP5o+7MHCfWIndMLCfSAmE5RAAl5gKzkgP4QGDFrUTcUlMN4YBNInJ 0MjivYAmMRsej0gSs4BZYf5/MACGGO7sPDgl9mErlJ7GvQMATTRmgWi/OPMAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Pet Shop Boys's _Format (1)_: "Discoteca (new version)" Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 21:21:13 +0200 In-reply-to: <84fwby88vo.fsf@aol.com> Message-id: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) nyc4bos@aol.com writes: > Can you explain to me why should a user now jump through more hoops > to use another program such as OpenSSL, in order to use TLS? `starttls-use-gnutls' controls what starttls.el does when starttls.el is being used. starttls.el is not being used, by default, any more. So this isn't a regression. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Sat Aug 09 21:22:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#11205: 24.0.95; starttls-use-gnutls no longer being honored Resent-From: nyc4bos@aol.com Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 01:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11205 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Cc: Glenn Morris , 11205@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 11205-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11205.133929048318573 (code B ref 11205); Sun, 10 Jun 2012 01:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 11205) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2012 01:08:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36324 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SdWdL-0004pA-6O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jun 2012 21:08:03 -0400 Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.40]:48613) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SdWdD-0004oy-Su for 11205@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jun 2012 21:07:56 -0400 Received: from mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.133]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q5A15JQj009016; Sat, 9 Jun 2012 21:05:19 -0400 Received: from STATION03 (173-13-86-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.13.86.254]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 8B84DE0000FE; Sat, 9 Jun 2012 21:05:19 -0400 (EDT) From: nyc4bos@aol.com References: <8462d9k9lr.fsf@aol.com> <847gxomgpf.fsf@aol.com> <7j4nsrtrc0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <84fwby88vo.fsf@aol.com> Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 21:05:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 13 May 2012 21:21:13 +0200") Message-ID: <84y5nwyo1m.fsf@aol.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1339290319; bh=NEJfLcJF3075XZxdPZi/IQXDiR+mYE3Xa0QnAL7Bi4U=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=uJveEMnDgtcruB8hAYfwKzMOspRLJ++QIGkuwL5GOg1YhKM2rf5F/A9+S/Gpsfws5 dDoW/pAqbsUvieaYyMWmsBbfkTnQ2TCNuooetTOL5IHfy/+S+BGOSr8hl4gCfVS1EP V3Zynl+rQU6eT0Er12+NnJ/sN0BKfR9GmVTyHdUw= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:418185952:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33854fd3f2cf4dab X-AOL-IP: 173.13.86.254 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > nyc4bos@aol.com writes: > >> Can you explain to me why should a user now jump through more hoops >> to use another program such as OpenSSL, in order to use TLS? > > `starttls-use-gnutls' controls what starttls.el does when starttls.el is > being used. starttls.el is not being used, by default, any more. So > this isn't a regression. The regression is that you can't prevent GnuTLS from being used and use OpenSSL if GnuTLS us installed. OK, I'll open up another bug report and not mention `starttls-use-gnutls' so that this can be fixed.