From xah@xahlee.org Tue Oct 7 08:13:49 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Oct 2008 15:13:49 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m97FDfqr027846 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:13:43 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KnEFo-0007su-Al for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:13:40 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KnEFn-0007si-Ux for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:13:40 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42424 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KnEFn-0007sf-Px for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:13:39 -0400 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.196]:52611) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KnEFm-0000l7-Pg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:13:39 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-24-6-185-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.185.159]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKpCa-1KnEFi1e9I-0005Wl; Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:13:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: xah lee Subject: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:12:48 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX191Fz0R0FrShOZTKZ1bzgEnATFqNnk1gYwRicI 8+Y0yzAvxH1dF2gHsDgwD57S0wpeStTl0kjr32jyen6i1bpbjr 9nxFQYMcMuS3NyDRAU+iA== X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. When doing a describe-key on C-, emacs prints instead. Similar for any other special key whose macro =20 notation are bracketed by angle brackets. e.g. , , =20 , , etc. Where, emacs puts the entire thing inside =20 angle brackets instead of the more traditional of modifier followed =20 by dash followed by key name. Although these are identical as far as kbd function is concerned, but =20= wouldn't it be more intuitively consistent by using C- instead =20 of ? Thanks. Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84 From cyd@stupidchicken.com Tue Oct 7 09:56:52 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Oct 2008 16:56:52 +0000 Received: from cyd.mit.edu (CYD.MIT.EDU [18.115.2.24]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m97GundN021105 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:56:51 -0700 Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6324C57E0BF; Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:58:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: reassign bugs Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:58:26 -0400 Message-ID: <87zllgtk99.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii severity 1109 wishlist severity 1110 wishlist severity 1111 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 08 08:35:39 2019 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2019 12:35:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40113 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvhdr-0003ZA-J9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 08:35:39 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51905) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvhdp-0003Z1-Sp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 08:35:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56765) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvhdo-0002T0-Tz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 08:35:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hvhdo-00087O-20 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 08:35:36 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f175.google.com ([209.85.215.175]:34894) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hvhdn-000874-TT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 08:35:36 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f175.google.com with SMTP id n4so2276749pgv.2 for ; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 05:35:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2YOv00ejSUsjekP0wj7bpWFXLUNWaFtYfuHTt9shRfY=; b=heF7sAJihDMhocfeL9ZwHRbmduyi5jPvdCQpgYasmn510L4rt2sK01ge/yiXIUaEeE rwvJe5PDDboawe0XqaRY4k/dH1lkSypPq7WJFEyNuPAKppE6C10KRA/UM9PPLDun+2ZQ L4yM8nsKGQqYy36M+CPEn1zcBx9Qw70+YiKc/vYst1GH3bWfId75orRkO+zZ0FwcwOwi OSLNybJoIBg2lVR+L5ObP8SlwM73o896dEXuPLgcVIM1t4ejiVbysxW3L6Xk/JMuWuU5 1UaBYeLzSzdmzg1//qKcOWvtSdoYJ315vJgUG3URraXWfD40klq5sFmzHJG4Fx/5xAtY uVpw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVQ0KC8/mlpyVDQESjq7yQyWnUj8NvqNKvif8T0AmGXvc6/GUDG 8HcsPCkhlp6YmHNGJJoTz1HYtms09oEovqrSa6U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqziPCV2QBZuQoRVU7cdf3slIXPEdkPV/+8BW1YdvOkpRZcnkil8LgJTYK1I90b1z6F3jXgtd0VkHW9NKyBit0s= X-Received: by 2002:a62:b615:: with SMTP id j21mr14895857pff.190.1565267734820; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 05:35:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 14:35:23 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency To: xah lee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.215.175 X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 1111@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) xah lee writes: > When doing a describe-key on C-, emacs prints backspace> instead. Similar for any other special key whose macro notation are > bracketed by angle brackets. e.g. , , , , etc. Where, > emacs puts the entire thing inside angle brackets instead of the more > traditional of modifier followed by dash followed by key name. > > Although these are identical as far as kbd function is concerned, but wouldn't > it be more intuitively consistent by using C- instead of ? Would anyone else want to weigh in on this old wishlist item? Is this a good idea, even if it is very minor, or should we close this as wontfix? FWIW, I personally don't mind either way. Thanks, Stefan Kangas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 08 11:48:02 2019 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2019 15:48:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41613 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvke0-0004ZR-Js for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 11:48:02 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:51898) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvkdy-0004ZC-44 for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 11:47:58 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x78Fh7VU128557; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:47:51 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=94Mrwjen2yEQEAbG70gIpmkO2nJHlZjExaPys0PEfNE=; b=X3VFciPX+Y3E9CC8BObq05m+EhEX1BcSvMEaPhvHDQqjsvWE4YQ/KRoTlBkCEs172TAa M4jKdfhfp22AZYSbzsSl8XH8dLeFH0pr8B5Jo+4PEAA65Gv+LX72shfsudNYqhlzGyxW G6oBKLsFVZKzoh8GZEgNbnWlGjKyG7JRmQgcDPXZ+bhcucLm7RNDqOWUZbl6W42qJ4PT tZHNwB4Pgp4hw1ygsZvyHT9h8KwFSYOmgpEI666v/koJGcikgQPPPi2f53pr0DKgPWC0 I85E0T+8BPDLBXAfhST77pXYzcI00gB7LvpxGG9Kq1Is7I6rIMMcYOlZlCd3b0bX1mcA /g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=94Mrwjen2yEQEAbG70gIpmkO2nJHlZjExaPys0PEfNE=; b=xhSrMsSYHnzDctA76Wea4a60f2lb1J8Dj9bPns1nbPDXGoLwYOaAy8pXpWc8RGZb7V3h OBMi2kO9HUfrHDMi6NhomJ/++PAxtNMYiJD7rllWHOjVuwHP+74psGHCOpHFGupuzJ6A rYPiH0KJhV8poDpEoJDrxeEs6vxeB3mBTOLyiNtQxIYRSbcAhZkZKOUDP4s+t3CdmHKl GTb0ILZow8He6zynzTPYQR6m2Rb2ileRZyCeVdKpsQ3ClPFIZvRsJpmQMwFv0XzwYT6K M8nMVvMMFn4Hl/9BsVlKzWmdOqh6C/qORLSdiv6gSVQc8R3YUEIpZmw8bLtOvUc2kxrV rw== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u8hps20te-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 15:47:51 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x78Fbje0112912; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:47:50 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u7579auty-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 15:47:50 +0000 Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x78FlkwT018560; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:47:46 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 08:47:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , xah lee Subject: RE: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9342 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080150 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9342 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080150 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: 1111@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > When doing a describe-key on C-, emacs prints > backspace> instead. Similar for any other special key whose macro > > notation are bracketed by angle brackets. e.g. , , > > , , etc. Where, emacs puts the entire thing inside > > angle brackets instead of the more traditional of modifier > > followed by dash followed by key name. > > > > Although these are identical as far as kbd function is concerned, > > but wouldn't it be more intuitively consistent by using C- > > instead of ? >=20 > Would anyone else want to weigh in on this old wishlist item? Is this > a good idea, even if it is very minor, or should we close this as > wontfix? >=20 > FWIW, I personally don't mind either way. Dunno whether this is really weighing in, but... I've said before (not in this thread, most likely) that I think that the Emacs manuals should use the exact same notation that Emacs itself uses interactively. That means the manuals should use , not C-. But they don't. As for "the more traditional": we shouldn't care. (I don't.) Emacs should do what is best for Emacs. The consistency we should look for is local, i.e., within Emacs. Eli has defended the use of the C- notation in the manuals, so so be it: we'll continue to live with that inconsistency (relatively minor) in how Emacs talks about itself. But at least interactively we should remain consistent. And there can be arguments in favor of the notation, even beyond the obvious one that Emacs has long, long used it, so that there is now no doubt code that expects and depends on it. My vote is not to change from to C-. (And my vote would be to always use the former, even in the manuals.) --- FWIW, I've also argued that we do not need angle-bracket notation at all. We can drop it and still be completely unambiguous and consistent. (I proposed this long ago, but it was rejected.) IOW, instead of `C-x M-' we can use just `C-x M-delete' - always. I even have a library, `naked.el', that lets you optionally get the angle-bracket-less notation, except for places I can't control(e.g. C code): https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/NaKeD From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 08 12:03:52 2019 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2019 16:03:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41621 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvktL-000537-W5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:03:52 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-f53.google.com ([209.85.210.53]:41361) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvktK-00052r-HN for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:03:50 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-f53.google.com with SMTP id o101so120656215ota.8 for <1111@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=jOiPc9cArC/2yfd+nkEmEYN9EcH2qge/xAbDZLvR1U8=; b=rwb+dEONL75fxtylNLiDSV16P64BBMfkenMn7vHjPWeBoiayIkDfWTiC67PcQvrfQy OR2t4xDYSdf0NW3dyqwYFO0G7JZivw3s/eCME7KZkbV/fSEl9nhUZ5xfY6A+Pflog5+T a6Rdot6yuRM6/d8hg0i5VqDcqko68oAmVin63hPUkupkdkTwgEvf8hWlXSs7mL9Ne4Z7 eBgoGJALKTMrdYn4yiPDPsxForwwJiS2LeJJkS3QyezGuIm+cRrRWu/RycdglfsiXuXz r+ESITch8r/ooIetPk9eDwWOoSIF+cda74UKhBu70t8yKFIfi3MiUvRZ5svjXbnyOs2p Mz3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=jOiPc9cArC/2yfd+nkEmEYN9EcH2qge/xAbDZLvR1U8=; b=Fvw5OQScinzmeCdfvIp1d8EjVxMo6xyjSW7MW8dKy3+CLWlOBaqUOioK827BAfUpuJ ljo06NU7S5/hy+MNN7CKxJqNw1+eYpEwgPo0MlEyrSooSlOm300qNKMmGZGFkbkxAPfC ZUjSDlnPBfv32JfIKRlpPCdAFTiKuaKYRy0NQSonneUC3pr+LV/lT9U9Cq92y0PNKPA7 J7CfMFJEoEzAXD8ptNyj18JMIUS0gpN2ajW4cmIzC8vBHYRlxfynyyygV8iR1btIhQ6Q MfTZFEid9rtk2zYgasupjE1C9ZyoBB3pr7YENBZdYIClznApWT94bstMVj764kLeaVMd z9vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXEClDiDEsl4K1YirvxTEAii7bqGER+2M/WXNswNamwcBNOChaK 2nBKoLLRkJqj9VzoVPo8GaaEtDUy X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwPvDKas+ETftVofJ8zQ0hvdKq9OtTfYHFt4ZqAlTjBawdRb9K/koBc9+E0OQNvelf+cm9s/w== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:2b08:: with SMTP id r8mr14874150ior.34.1565280224641; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 09:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost2 (CPE001143542e1f-CMf81d0f809fa0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.230.51.196]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e22sm1672659iog.2.2019.08.08.09.03.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 09:03:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:03:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 8 Aug 2019 08:47:45 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <85mugj3aqp.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.92 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: xah lee , 1111@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > I've said before (not in this thread, most likely) > that I think that the Emacs manuals should use the > exact same notation that Emacs itself uses > interactively. > > That means the manuals should use , not > C-. But they don't. Having Emacs print C-, as suggested in the OP, would also solve the consistency, yes? I think it's a bit more readable, so I would be in favour of that. > --- > > FWIW, I've also argued that we do not need > angle-bracket notation at all. We can drop it and > still be completely unambiguous and consistent. That assumes all function key names are longer than one letter, right? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 08 13:25:20 2019 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2019 17:25:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41649 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvmAC-0007U4-ER for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 13:25:20 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:41500) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvmAB-0007Tr-8H for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 13:25:19 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x78HIssU022585; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 17:25:13 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=Xuzmb4abTYEwyqCp0rEqWF99vGudtU1gi5ZHV/zjv3Y=; b=r6nG3KHTb0zFceuy8BAQmBr6/VkqQs1Jqg6pGCbo3CRiQUQXLGUk5lsyTjTIol0NzRs8 CazvHy1FwoThDdSoC0DZ+v8+ALK1MP5sPqNGwLihAhrx4J2bpAJKIuJt/jzvVhpafHYz cSNwqXzL1+yvPdXzeDG4hb+aP/Ef33zaaQkEbik3dGjkBa8ryOrQKBVdtJwvVt3rqQu0 4ThH4CImpHSuPxqnFio/2XibBsWQBa9c+E7dDo30TeEwVFBcUMFT94tszuPfDieEWr/S QxkinooJ4x5MFU/hLIlDm1wWmC0FIHuy/Wp+zlqYu33wo5nHnaX412ohao+KOfGbuX5c Gw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=Xuzmb4abTYEwyqCp0rEqWF99vGudtU1gi5ZHV/zjv3Y=; b=LnqinOCOk/2bHiEq8nGl339nlW0CSxfswu4rSpqlfjsk/ajTQtbOd8ZC+UFfJlB5rfxx m0DaL21OqDJpIdi27QdL+5hqsRj5SUue+oOj+eNbuRM2IycstuIpUJgaUu2jjqtOSjus CLqCxtFdW/va+IYuXYjbVGSA3SOtBH2arMS1zlMe70r6MsbAPCa5kx5OhFHnODAoTgXW kddEG76sttzmzU0VSZV0e+yr7pW6aUU0Br3V5M85/c9kBJa4jnUDvmAsgPaCpyQdGkdS EoYHNAT1JzwPzSMhV/BVEXXC1lCCr0bohnshNy6XkK2vvedb7EaHBaVv5d2ZuYgovTbB ow== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u8hps2jad-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 17:25:13 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x78HHcB4054416; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 17:25:12 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u8pj83vbr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 17:25:12 +0000 Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x78HP9jM014488; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 17:25:09 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0d832886-8112-4331-bd84-b9edbeac4398@default> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Noam Postavsky Subject: RE: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> <85mugj3aqp.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <85mugj3aqp.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9343 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080155 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9343 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080155 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: xah lee , 1111@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > I've said before (not in this thread, most likely) > > that I think that the Emacs manuals should use the > > exact same notation that Emacs itself uses > > interactively. > > > > That means the manuals should use , not > > C-. But they don't. >=20 > Having Emacs print C-, as suggested in the OP, > would also solve the consistency, yes? Yes, of course. At the cost of a lot of code changes, not to mention user mind changes. ;-) [We could also change Elisp to use only M-expressions, not S-expressions (sexps) - e.g. car('(1 2)) instead of (car '(1 2)), to more closely fit syntax expectations outside Lisp.] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-expression > I think it's a bit more readable, so I would > be in favour of that. To me it's less readable, but tastes vary. `C-x ' is noticeably different from `'. `C-x ' is not so noticeably different from `C- (to me, at least). --- > > FWIW, I've also argued that we do not need > > angle-bracket notation at all. We can drop > > it and still be completely unambiguous and > > consistent. >=20 > That assumes all function key names are longer > than one letter, right? Yes. But we already have the symbol for the corresponding event, which presumably has the same potential problem. E.g., the event that corresponds to the key described as `' is the symbol `right' (no angle brackets). The event that corresponds to the key described as `' is `M-f3'. Presumably the key described as `' (or `M-', per Xah), where `' is a function key, would correspond to event `M-d', which might already be problematic (no?). (And we would anyway distinguish function keys `' and `' via the bracket syntax, as `[M-d]'. It would only be the (proposed) standard key description where naked `d' and `M-d' could be ambiguous.) We could also make it explicitly conventional for a function key (including a fake function key, for a menu item) to have more than one character. We have no such convention, AFAICT, but have you ever come across a single-char function-key name? Or we could just leave `d' ambiguous, in the rare case that there might be an `d' function key as well as the `d' character key. I'd bet that there are no such anomalous function keys today (or in the past). Do you know of any? And do we even know whether all of Emacs works OK with such a function key? Anyway, going naked ain't gonna happen. That's been made clear. BTW, since Emacs 22, `single-key-description' takes an optional arg NO-ANGLES, which does what you might expect. Here is the reason given (in (elisp) `Describing Characters'): If the optional argument NO-ANGLES is non-'nil', the angle brackets around function keys and event symbols are omitted; this is for compatibility with old versions of Emacs which didn't use the brackets. (I don't think angle brackets are ever used around event symbols, so I'm guessing that "and event symbols" is wrong, there.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 08 14:06:36 2019 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2019 18:06:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41668 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvmo6-0000H1-Gh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 14:06:36 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-f41.google.com ([209.85.210.41]:32803) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvmo4-0000GZ-HK for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 14:06:32 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-f41.google.com with SMTP id q20so122094341otl.0 for <1111@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 11:06:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=bsIeerFpypi018NDIGuAhetGjjsLxtN8WIIRM4j8vWQ=; b=jyNQlr+ouQGeSz3ColP54cW+zC0oNqaWkQZRGwwTfWr7DtemDm1NTTAeXpdHeNMQwx 3tACZE8k40kp4iCOU2wUU/qHQDRVbnug3EOfQA3KxEx+F51CpbwwBpfy/n4wreYrhjO0 bUNfVR8ZDdvbV5zzBd3U8Ffo/CVyNxXa8mfis52QS+oC6NrLRUvfTj78U1AkPdGu1+uZ hGZGxbe1/5Xtju4td40SnDl2E4hmP517qVN3YcgD6O4n/GEd5GwdA3f8JJFI6lkc16jh kYqbi/yS68/99fjXg5BeD7yJ/XNcQXnw9LZb76jrjthzhXlVrKgc+Y6x2GTwNxpkfoz0 yG7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=bsIeerFpypi018NDIGuAhetGjjsLxtN8WIIRM4j8vWQ=; b=sA0h1OdBHrFJrCHVNZWDHtcbBVDPHld15IviAlCwm0PrbBM0vraPZDTfjHopC4duLS +PrICWF9TeX6+nk44MEI7TDTdc6LyKRTRzLyz6BBy6q2ghoz1v2Lzu+nzz7pEAA9acPk LnAQ3bjhib5VErH/rkRrti/aD7/cBl3DwNqqXyp3x3WzWBdZ1F13Bh9O/zr/pIBAw/g+ mqpUMJiaZ85kvm1vXqgxDnY8GfFPIWjH/A3cMrl728WWkisM81bRT2QChTRW5fGzP2LC 1Ou3NutfrvdAGqD3ZGKQp/EukVHGhUlmKpxZdP5Ygg6g64KO3RWPF5Oz2aEoQSth5afe 8Y1g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU2V4l6qLkD24tHPOvoC62I/buzo8JX65gIcDVieuNU2qt3iD0x WFbMbHJTWZ8OQ81jgm1kbgw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyQ7cGyPI2+0e5obXsKv3dH7yY9z9BGPu/lyz7o7MbTBx8aAbXRUhY3wgtloqsbUYxT+aDJNQ== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:8bd1:: with SMTP id n200mr17187034iod.134.1565287587038; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 11:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost2 (CPE001143542e1f-CMf81d0f809fa0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.230.51.196]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m10sm172289569ioj.75.2019.08.08.11.06.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 11:06:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> <85mugj3aqp.fsf@gmail.com> <0d832886-8112-4331-bd84-b9edbeac4398@default> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 14:06:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0d832886-8112-4331-bd84-b9edbeac4398@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 8 Aug 2019 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <85k1bn3527.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.92 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: xah lee , 1111@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: >> > I've said before (not in this thread, most likely) >> > that I think that the Emacs manuals should use the >> > exact same notation that Emacs itself uses >> > interactively. >> > >> > That means the manuals should use , not >> > C-. But they don't. >> >> Having Emacs print C-, as suggested in the OP, >> would also solve the consistency, yes? > > Yes, of course. At the cost of a lot of code > changes, not to mention user mind changes. ;-) I don't think the code change would be that large (but we've not seen a patch yet). >> > FWIW, I've also argued that we do not need >> > angle-bracket notation at all. We can drop >> > it and still be completely unambiguous and >> > consistent. >> >> That assumes all function key names are longer >> than one letter, right? > > Yes [...] > Presumably the key described as `' (or > `M-', per Xah), where `' is a function > key, would correspond to event `M-d', which > might already be problematic (no?). I don't think so, (kbd "M-d") => [?\M-d], but (kbd "") => [M-D]. > but have you ever come across a single-char > function-key name? No (and I didn't mean to say that assuming all function key names are multi-character is unreasonable). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 08 18:16:01 2019 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2019 22:16:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41838 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvqhV-0002j0-6o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 18:16:01 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:33590) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvqhT-0002ih-Ev for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 18:16:00 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x78M99NE093491; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 22:15:53 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=CocJ6/2rfMFyoGDTDAzNUbneBIlsd6YH+Mrn8UZBMQQ=; b=RhgkankODmGyvmphdarqxLjVlRMbwwWd+fLmG9bu95w7vuMkMNN5dyp8v7VfTLLkrBYu rvflcfzzrUgKB7EewpsopAozhOOACAqY61xJNfJoDYt2/t/JECQsAgYSzUHveqTZscFk 5D8UHNpBPpwq8hCK27t0DLTMbkOlDF7VkWQ9fCe2UklfbHr6yI58uahhaj1e4kaguPTP /aPxrH/SSuhPTKdu7j//wwZ5ZuUxYc6WOgknS/g2wk5wkMrr71K7E+ri0iph7UGY4S4R XLmS5SJQFlrN7BLVCdHujBCJWvdZkA5YZArfhSJKxh8qjF8uFtku8I2Qwf9rKgRrYSmX Tw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=CocJ6/2rfMFyoGDTDAzNUbneBIlsd6YH+Mrn8UZBMQQ=; b=Rfy05hgj3nmLP/57qoMo69bnVP6TtnwtKBjCFR87MVk7rMZEd/BMW4YzUlQlKBL1/pBy dfxiEWq/vyqxRofORadev5mnseMIuTZXhDKOVV6fjf6YS4uFNVbz8mJ3B7+lz1mhEIMv 6jpI782sYhzTY5YzMVJ8RRFGsbgjPWIIciqNqYyMShScRPF95OrUQTHklwF+1F+8xJMM UJ6ejZk6KMVoHWYPOX76+d2X3G3Xp32FFTYFc8AZvtOadwp2V1xTgiB5xs7JQ5Splou0 2eU31ih50LvvLdMF+HZBUIoar40KcPasPNuQp8OuMM0y1W3xVPtCXw651KrGxDckhSI1 kA== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u8hasc2n6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 22:15:53 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x78MDVjN169234; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 22:15:53 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u7579n969-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 22:15:52 +0000 Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x78MFlTf006133; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 22:15:47 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:15:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Noam Postavsky Subject: RE: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> <85mugj3aqp.fsf@gmail.com> <0d832886-8112-4331-bd84-b9edbeac4398@default> <85k1bn3527.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <85k1bn3527.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9343 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080196 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9343 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080196 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: xah lee , 1111@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Presumably the key described as `' (or > > `M-', per Xah), where `' is a function > > key, would correspond to event `M-d', which > > might already be problematic (no?). >=20 > I don't think so, (kbd "M-d") =3D> [?\M-d], > but (kbd "") =3D> [M-D]. I'm talking about the _event_. The value of the event is a symbol. In both cases (I think) it would be the symbol `M-d'. > > but have you ever come across a single-char > > function-key name? >=20 > No (and I didn't mean to say that assuming > all function key names are multi-character > is unreasonable). (I didn't expect that you did mean that.) My point (in this tangent discussion) is that it is possible to drop the angle brackets. And the result would be a lot less noise. But unless we also added a convention such as no single-char function-key names, there could be some rare ambiguity. One way to avoid that rare case of ambiguity would be to use angle brackets only for the case of single-char names. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 08 19:05:40 2019 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2019 23:05:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvrTY-0004NP-In for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 19:05:40 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-f42.google.com ([209.85.210.42]:34213) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvrTW-0004NA-Ot for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 19:05:39 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-f42.google.com with SMTP id n5so125533381otk.1 for <1111@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:05:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=pKXPgofG79e+wZibqpAuCMqkc3VVKB8hyKnSu6GDORg=; b=eiCts6ycsZ+osyBbLkhbqqZL0BUqDz0hzQFHjCqQEOwEy1qM29OIZRxTSB8d7bZt2f ZdRSPMInt74K022bhEfJJmQQO8rVC+QD07gQPI4VhjMGlpiNDf9x02JG6XclUgxFsbXl E3KOauUjvEppf37wZk0mHpbAv03r2pWsSdA2C2GOONfAOKVQef4xrhhfYrG+cGcupScN jpq9hKjwNvwwsCRHwjIRgbj3vhXTcVqbpgnybeyqy5QOwEvqmRurMGUd8WCKVtC9OzQE 8EeTMy0wnsErrwI0y5QJT708cpVha/QW1Lzv2WDc0XdSXfmAytbMth7A8TLw+q99tlRQ 7gEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=pKXPgofG79e+wZibqpAuCMqkc3VVKB8hyKnSu6GDORg=; b=MShmezkHqpGLdf01t0yG6VivG3Bzdglev6dG71maX527H4iP9bB/D3zI3Jt3DyN8C3 m93NMuB8AhKwyrMHVkPYvEy96PVBaPqI1/Ehh2Dr+k43PzvcaYvBD2+g+7vc8WWVMzoA zxfZxkUtYEhb1OLWKaLt+DKkofCrYRYlY1MxuvG4tp3d479JAZHJSVHJIwXT/CKCXHW0 fQY+v/EsPAgKEU1P0wT/BSrWDPBmaV8ps+HuMFkY4U65LvMCke9b5I1htHmY2gh90uY6 qhtzED/ZIWdt6F+rJibTGM7VHgnbMplasFVAlbXWhSkzPeoHkXjkIQRjoqVcqmihsjcC ZRhw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW99zenNcFNPIgTSK1WJA3FVLPfLWZ+D72b5nrDpfWTiEWea97Y p67l15Z3xyP2pC2tFqgy81k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyy/Ci5HtI6TAH3cQR10z3JBuUa+0Wb93zETh5fQkHwTWVF9EEaWNm32mB2WLKctV3qhBxdOw== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:7619:: with SMTP id g25mr1913356iom.92.1565305533241; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minid (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j25sm129270294ioj.67.2019.08.08.16.05.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:05:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> <85mugj3aqp.fsf@gmail.com> <0d832886-8112-4331-bd84-b9edbeac4398@default> <85k1bn3527.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 19:05:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:15:46 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87sgqbqmv8.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: xah lee , 1111@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > > The value of the event is a symbol. I don't understand where you're getting that idea from. (info "(elisp) Keyboard Events"): There are two kinds of input you can get from the keyboard: ordinary keys, and function keys. Ordinary keys correspond to (possibly modified) characters; the events they generate are represented in Lisp as characters. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 08 20:15:02 2019 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2019 00:15:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41914 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvsYf-00084v-H0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 20:15:02 -0400 Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:38808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvsYd-00084Z-J2 for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 20:15:01 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7904eE9175924; Fri, 9 Aug 2019 00:14:53 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=VGMeov5PlM/33y5eksa9S3lapyIE59qq5cA1EDP/K7g=; b=Pf1H27DW86/7jic8OMWDIdi05kzLxRgsYTEjbluUdVaVYDPK1nlhBABBAeIWBGYAf5J4 p0wsz11SG+XzeWUbwEMAVDsC7mq4+tJdP1bwVfeOm2Q8BHJTtr6OsWi+lJ5pIIP3uBNO 9aDxDRA9BlkeDNV224zQtlaz0oNJh4yqUQw9adgjLXSp0d5UWzNPeCsDv1l/wH+NKYLi xeXH5dPI/wrvHCvgJpIfGQPydW+4Wv/eRPM1mSKcQ89cUTH0vLcUdqaFatKPozuXoDCD 6WyiBoyBorUy5xuvkBSA0R7q23Cq1nz0Z3kGlISy28p2eV+HfS7rlDouEo9RTf4Trb2M pg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=VGMeov5PlM/33y5eksa9S3lapyIE59qq5cA1EDP/K7g=; b=LDzihKetjLW0Ya3g8qYJQlmH89E7RClb0cl0S2OF+ZaQpiZyrgRBNKPwyCJKFlvzPqaA eB5qxvCiVYG4LRfNhI0E2J25XqJJ1iNdYWR9+I1lgEQKXCs2oCn66zbEGTN70DLl0Xsj zngxv/gtDfVzmNApZbQek0a1NUcvHfts4DhXb1667oHBl6QtvnnaQfUTrYy1i/pcPk6V Pqmyfq4dv3T/seQGWhKJhRoVWIYkP3+Bb7vtT0nDKbvLOKjRiA8+fYFPrxOOFMQ6/hRr YWuZXTdIBWvhBg0sV3PbiWGx/TafRWIS9NfeyrANyB0tQeeOWgqIk/HDBFJpFNpSQq1l xw== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u8hascc9n-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 09 Aug 2019 00:14:53 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7908bdc145096; Fri, 9 Aug 2019 00:14:53 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u8x1g83hg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 09 Aug 2019 00:14:52 +0000 Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x790EjvX002871; Fri, 9 Aug 2019 00:14:46 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <76f8d8ae-83ef-4062-881d-8e60a2a148a6@default> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 17:14:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Noam Postavsky Subject: RE: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> <85mugj3aqp.fsf@gmail.com> <0d832886-8112-4331-bd84-b9edbeac4398@default> <85k1bn3527.fsf@gmail.com> <87sgqbqmv8.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87sgqbqmv8.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9343 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080214 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9343 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908080214 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: xah lee , 1111@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > The value of the event is a symbol. >=20 > I don't understand where you're getting that idea from. > (info "(elisp) Keyboard Events"): >=20 > There are two kinds of input you can get from the keyboard: > ordinary keys, and function keys. Ordinary keys correspond to=20 > (possibly modified) characters; the events they generate are=20 > represented in Lisp as characters. We're not talking about ordinary keys. We're talking about function keys. They're not represented as characters. They're represented as Lisp symbols. (elisp) `Function Keys': Function keys are represented in Emacs Lisp as symbols; the symbol's name is the function key's label, in lower case. For example, pressing a key labeled generates an input event represented by the symbol 'f1'. (Note: not the symbol `' - see my statement that I think the doc that says that the angle brackets are part of the event name is incorrect, per this doc passage.) The event type of a function key event is the event symbol itself. See Classifying Events. ... the symbol for the key with held down is `M-f3'. Similarly, in (elisp) `Classifying Events' it talks about event types also being symbols: ... the event type for a function key symbol is the symbol itself. "Function key symbol", there seems to be the symbol talked about in `Function Keys'. So function keys and their events and the event types are all "represented in Emacs Lisp by symbols". Likewise, event modifiers are symbols. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 09 02:38:53 2019 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2019 06:38:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41989 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvyY9-0002lw-Kg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2019 02:38:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34157) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hvyY7-0002lg-89 for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2019 02:38:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46864) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hvyY1-0004V3-74; Fri, 09 Aug 2019 02:38:45 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1399 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hvyY0-0002TY-LN; Fri, 09 Aug 2019 02:38:45 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2019 09:38:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83mugialn5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-reply-to: <76f8d8ae-83ef-4062-881d-8e60a2a148a6@default> (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 8 Aug 2019 17:14:44 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> <85mugj3aqp.fsf@gmail.com> <0d832886-8112-4331-bd84-b9edbeac4398@default> <85k1bn3527.fsf@gmail.com> <87sgqbqmv8.fsf@gmail.com> <76f8d8ae-83ef-4062-881d-8e60a2a148a6@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: xah@xahlee.org, 1111@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, npostavs@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: xah lee , 1111@debbugs.gnu.org, > Stefan Kangas > > (elisp) `Function Keys': > > Function keys are represented in Emacs Lisp as > symbols; the symbol's name is the function key's > label, in lower case. > > For example, pressing a key labeled generates > an input event represented by the symbol 'f1'. > > (Note: not the symbol `' - see my statement that > I think the doc that says that the angle brackets > are part of the event name is incorrect, per this > doc passage.) You are mixing keys with events produced by those keys and with the description of those keys and events. They are all different. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 18:00:40 2021 Received: (at 1111) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2021 22:00:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTtFI-00088t-4J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:00:40 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f54.google.com ([209.85.216.54]:39705) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTtFG-00081W-74 for 1111@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:00:39 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f54.google.com with SMTP id bj3-20020a17090b088300b0019e6603fe89so7066090pjb.4 for <1111@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 15:00:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=n87xE9RmiSiisoTnY7XUKc2bJiD7syQY7o7r3zCMk10=; b=oTSXxrdI3+MuhXZ3SveLpOtI7gMA/PIxv6ut8RwLu8cRSe29lZv4qu4kLGmfkIhcZ5 b6x7QHXlY5avq57a0KPu3WwF+pV2g5IGSgqfB3qyCoHp143hy6ldp9n4yhQQN/sxt1m7 p6CebnWyJEu7ONeedsPlaPyBRXOToe0chE9mrhY5+J2zxQu1/2BebIR/2W3WMtuJVxOZ m1LW6FdGHDO7cjcz8E8NpLEYrsHJ4FWKJ/A+Po1xvSyyUMjtYPZRxa6YqW0eBYBzlNPi EY+7J7vKM0V54xfTrk3MDLgcvjbC8qlK7c9+NFAiPa7SMq2cl/jauTFccdyBaRKkauo5 VD2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5336h8rrtji1iDrq8hocHiBsF9jJAlMBvPK+5Fs7RDdEKmbWpVsO 0SQ26/+u08wBsl0nUSFIcntDwqPePuMzEmlgS68= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoiGsSiOCTGb4yy8eKFEKeB2QoJ72rlJM8NN1xBhiIhZjM2MZnZwWmzfFsf5ImOGgVziCvUWKushuiOM1Bqhk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3805:: with SMTP id mq5mr4845783pjb.143.1632520832042; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 15:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 15:00:31 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> (xah lee's message of "Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:12:48 -0700") References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 15:00:31 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency To: xah lee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: 1111@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 1111 fixed close 1111 28.1 thanks xah lee writes: > When doing a describe-key on C-, emacs prints > instead. Similar for any other special key whose macro notation are bracketed by > angle brackets. e.g. , , , , etc. Where, emacs puts the > entire thing inside angle brackets instead of the more traditional of modifier > followed by dash followed by key name. > > Although these are identical as far as kbd function is concerned, but wouldn't > it be more intuitively consistent by using C- instead of ? This is now the case in Emacs 28, from NEWS: ** Modifiers now go outside angle brackets in pretty-printed key bindings. For example, 'RET' with Control and Meta modifiers is now shown as 'C-M-' instead of ''. Either variant can be used as input; functions such as 'kbd' and 'read-kbd-macro' accept both styles as equivalent (they have done so for a long time). I'm therefore closing this bug report. 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Fri, 24 Sep 2021 22:49:27 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c0bc:7c3a:292f:8a82]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c0bc:7c3a:292f:8a82%9]) with mapi id 15.20.4544.018; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 22:49:27 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Stefan Kangas , xah lee Subject: RE: [External] : bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#1111: describe-key's key notation display inconsistency Thread-Index: AQHXsY+zK/TTOJCfiUOuKIja2s2E5auzvPwQ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 22:49:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <06D80DE1-FCD6-45BB-B2D9-A968F797971C@xahlee.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: marxist.se; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;marxist.se; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2af5f5ac-0c9b-4bc1-6f43-08d97fad9016 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR10MB4162: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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boundary="0000000000003ef86b05ccdef622" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 1111 Cc: 1111@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: xahlee@gmail.com Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000003ef86b05ccdef622 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" thank you. On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 3:00 PM Stefan Kangas wrote: > tags 1111 fixed > close 1111 28.1 > thanks > > xah lee writes: > > > When doing a describe-key on C-, emacs prints > > instead. Similar for any other special key whose macro notation are > bracketed by > > angle brackets. e.g. , , , , etc. Where, emacs > puts the > > entire thing inside angle brackets instead of the more traditional of > modifier > > followed by dash followed by key name. > > > > Although these are identical as far as kbd function is concerned, but > wouldn't > > it be more intuitively consistent by using C- instead of ? > > This is now the case in Emacs 28, from NEWS: > > ** Modifiers now go outside angle brackets in pretty-printed key > bindings. > For example, 'RET' with Control and Meta modifiers is now shown as > 'C-M-' instead of ''. Either variant can be used > as input; functions such as 'kbd' and 'read-kbd-macro' accept both > styles as equivalent (they have done so for a long time). > > I'm therefore closing this bug report. > --0000000000003ef86b05ccdef622 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
thank you.

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 3:00 PM= Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:
ta= gs 1111 fixed
close 1111 28.1
thanks

xah lee <xah@xahlee.= org> writes:

> When doing a describe-key on C-<backspace>, emacs prints <C-b= ackspace>
> instead. Similar for any other special key whose macro notation are br= acketed by
> angle brackets. e.g. <down>, <F6>, <return>, <kp-= 1>, etc. Where, emacs puts the
> entire thing inside angle brackets instead of the more traditional of = modifier
> followed by dash followed by key name.
>
> Although these are identical as far as kbd function is concerned, but = wouldn't
> it be more intuitively consistent by using C-<key> instead of &l= t;C-key>?

This is now the case in Emacs 28, from NEWS:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ** Modifiers now go outside angle brackets in pretty-printed = key bindings.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For example, 'RET' with Control and Meta modifiers is= now shown as
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 'C-M-<return>' instead of '<C-M-return&g= t;'.=C2=A0 Either variant can be used
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 as input; functions such as 'kbd' and 'read-kbd-m= acro' accept both
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 styles as equivalent (they have done so for a long time).

I'm therefore closing this bug report.
--0000000000003ef86b05ccdef622-- From unknown Mon Aug 18 11:12:13 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator