Subject: Re: bug#11091: 24.0.94; emacsclient -t

From: Eli Zaretskii <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 20:13:56 +0300

> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 10:44:35 +0200
> From: Dani Moncayo <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
> 
> >> > [...] Emacs can create a graphical frame even if it was started in a
> >> > text-only terminal, provided it is able to connect to a graphical
> >> > display, and provided it can create graphical frames when started
> >> > from a text-only terminal.
> >>
> >> Isn't this wording a bit awkward?  "Emacs can do X, provided it is
> >> able to do Y, and provided it can do X"
> >
> > I don't see anything awkward here.  Using only one "provided that"
> > would produce an ambiguous sentence, so I used it twice.
> 
> The problem are not the two "provided that", but having "X" as a
> prerequisite for itself.

Is this better?

  @item -c
  Create a new graphical frame, instead of using an existing Emacs
  frame.  Emacs can create a graphical frame even if it was started in a
  text-only terminal, provided it is able to connect to a graphical
  display.  If it is unable to connect to a graphical display, and on
  systems, such as MS-Windows, where it cannot create graphical frames
  when started from a text-only terminal, Emacs creates a new text-only
  terminal frame (@pxref{Frames}).  If you omit a filename argument
  while supplying the @samp{-c} option, the new frame displays the
  @samp{*scratch*} buffer (@pxref{Buffers}).

> >> On the "-t" option:
> >>
> >> > Create a new Emacs frame on the current text-only terminal, instead
> >> > of using an existing Emacs frame.  If Emacs can open a text-only
> >> > terminal even if it was started in another text-only terminal, or on
> >> > a graphical display, it will create a text-only frame on the current
> >> > terminal.
> >>
> >> That is, "Do X instead of Y.  If Emacs can do X even if Z, it will do
> >> X.".  Not much clean, IMHO.
> >
> > The second "X" is not really a literal "X", it uses different
> > wording.  I see no problem.
> 
> The second sentence of this paragraph is IMO too long (not easy to parse).

How about this?

  @item -t
  @itemx --tty
  @itemx -nw
  Create a new Emacs frame on the current text-only terminal, instead of
  using an existing Emacs frame.  Emacs can open a text-only terminal
  even if it was started in another text-only terminal, or on a
  graphical display.  On systems, such as MS-Windows, where this is
  impossible, Emacs will create a new frame, either GUI or text-only, on
  the same display where it was started.  If you omit a filename
  argument while supplying this option, the new frame displays the
  @samp{*scratch*} buffer.  @xref{Buffers}.

> >> Here the last part ("on the same terminal where...") gives the
> >> impression that the new frame will be created on a terminal,
> >> regardless of whether it is GUI or text-only.
> >
> > "Terminal" is used here in its Emacs sense, and you seem to think
> > about something slightly different.
> 
> I think of "terminal" as a shell program designed to interact with the
> system using a text-only command-oriented interface.  So far I've not
> seen in the manual other meanings for this.  So, saying that a
> graphical Emacs frame will be created on a terminal marks no sense to
> me, but I can be wrong, of course.

I tried to fix that as well, see above.

> In short: I prefer my version of the doc fix

:-)