From unknown Fri Sep 12 09:17:53 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#10929 <10929@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#10929 <10929@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.0.94; `psetq' is autoloaded but not recognized in `emacs -Q' Reply-To: bug#10929 <10929@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2025 16:17:53 +0000 retitle 10929 24.0.94; `psetq' is autoloaded but not recognized in `emacs -= Q' reassign 10929 emacs submitter 10929 "Drew Adams" severity 10929 minor tag 10929 notabug wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 02 11:52:50 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Mar 2012 16:52:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58930 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vij-00074Q-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:52:50 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56819) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S3ViV-000740-Tm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:52:29 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vhq-0002R6-Vd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:51:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:49463) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vhq-0002Qp-SX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:51:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45522) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vho-0002xY-CF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:51:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3VhR-0002M7-2Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:51:43 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:29896) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3VhQ-0002Lr-SG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:51:20 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q22GpF4R011263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 16:51:16 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q22GpEp2015944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 16:51:15 GMT Received: from abhmt114.oracle.com (abhmt114.oracle.com [141.146.116.66]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q22GpEtU002712 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 10:51:14 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.43.213) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 08:51:14 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.94; `psetq' is autoloaded but not recognized in `emacs -Q' Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 08:51:09 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acz4lKr5ff3iXzDOSBKlOkY00WjCrQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4F50FA84.015B,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) I don't claim this is a bug - you decide. emacs -Q C-h f psetq ;; Not recognized M-x load-library cl RET C-h f psetq ;; says it is autoloaded This is likely true of other such macros as well. In GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-02-26 on MARVIN Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 02 11:59:53 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Mar 2012 16:59:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58947 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vph-0007Ez-6g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:59:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60144) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S3VpU-0007Ea-WF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:59:42 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vot-0003fL-Eu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:59:09 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:52761) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vot-0003fH-BW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:59:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60234) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vor-0004RE-NK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:59:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vop-0003er-Ls for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:59:01 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:40340) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vop-0003ee-FM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:58:59 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vol-0006Nv-5c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:58:55 +0100 Received: from e4300lm.epcc.ed.ac.uk ([129.215.63.156]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:58:55 +0100 Received: from wence by e4300lm.epcc.ed.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:58:55 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Lawrence Mitchell Subject: Re: bug#10929: 24.0.94; `psetq' is autoloaded but not recognized in `emacs -Q' Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:58:46 +0000 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <878vjj2b3t.fsf@gmx.li> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: e4300lm.epcc.ed.ac.uk User-Agent: Gnus/5.130004 (Ma Gnus v0.4) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:dvvXTnblc/8oblT+DSOxPBZUxhA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Drew Adams wrote: > I don't claim this is a bug - you decide. not-a-bug, as below. > emacs -Q > C-h f psetq ;; Not recognized CL symbols aren't exposed in emacs -Q without loading cl > M-x load-library cl RET > C-h f psetq ;; says it is autoloaded That's cos it is. The autoloads for cl functions/macros are in cl-loaddefs.el. When you load cl.el it loads cl-loaddefs.el autoloading additional names without loading the files immediately. Lawrence -- Lawrence Mitchell From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 02 12:07:28 2012 Received: (at 10929) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Mar 2012 17:07:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58953 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vx1-0007QA-H6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:07:28 -0500 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:47486) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S3Vwo-0007PV-WB for 10929@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:07:16 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q22H6fO2023030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Mar 2012 17:06:42 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q22H6eYH014053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Mar 2012 17:06:41 GMT Received: from abhmt109.oracle.com (abhmt109.oracle.com [141.146.116.61]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q22H6eFC031451; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 11:06:40 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.43.213) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 09:06:40 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lawrence Mitchell'" , <10929@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <878vjj2b3t.fsf@gmx.li> Subject: RE: bug#10929: 24.0.94; `psetq' is autoloaded but not recognized in `emacs -Q' Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 09:06:35 -0800 Message-ID: <16830A0626EC45A3802C0558965B1791@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <878vjj2b3t.fsf@gmx.li> Thread-Index: Acz4lffpzmKBCn2WTsulWjsq0u8e4gAAGKQw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4F50FE23.0004,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10929 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > The autoloads for cl functions/macros are in > cl-loaddefs.el. When you load cl.el it loads > cl-loaddefs.el autoloading additional names without > loading the files immediately. Yes, I know all that. But thanks anyway - I probably wasn't clear enough. My question really is, I guess, whether users should be able to get help about such macros without first loading cl.el. Autoloading has a couple different (but related) purposes. One of them helps Emacs be the self-documenting editor it claims to be. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 30 14:06:28 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 May 2012 18:06:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50689 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZnHv-0007FJ-QM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 May 2012 14:06:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:35129 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZnHu-0007FD-Sx for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 May 2012 14:06:27 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SZnGS-00004s-JX for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 May 2012 14:04:56 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 14:04:56 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 10929 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) tag 10929 wontfix From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 30 14:06:17 2012 Received: (at 10929-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 May 2012 18:06:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50686 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZnHl-0007Ey-Jw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 May 2012 14:06:17 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:35125 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SZnHk-0007Es-HS for 10929-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 May 2012 14:06:17 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SZnGG-0008Vn-Sn; Wed, 30 May 2012 14:04:44 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 10929-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#10929: 24.0.94; `psetq' is autoloaded but not recognized in `emacs -Q' References: <878vjj2b3t.fsf@gmx.li> <16830A0626EC45A3802C0558965B1791@us.oracle.com> X-Spook: Mole Ceridian counter terrorism TELINT MILSATCOM IDEA X-Ran: H_>FeCDfFL6n-rzL(Eu$"7T(z4`YHuLfOxx"D@6syB*JHubGiW=^pZE8V{V3fqf\Z5lYpe X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 14:04:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: <16830A0626EC45A3802C0558965B1791@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 2 Mar 2012 09:06:35 -0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10929-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > I don't claim this is a bug - you decide. It is not. > Autoloading has a couple different (but related) purposes. One of them > helps Emacs be the self-documenting editor it claims to be. This is not what the cl autoloads are for (nor should any autoload be used for this purpose IMO). From unknown Fri Sep 12 09:17:53 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:24:02 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator