From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 09:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 10844@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.13296433239933 (code B ref -1); Sun, 19 Feb 2012 09:23:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2012 09:22:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45183 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz2y2-0002aA-R2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:22:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz2y0-0002Zg-Jt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:22:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz2vu-0003oV-1H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:19:51 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:41176) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz2vt-0003oR-W8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:19:50 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:37455) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz2vs-0007yH-V2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:19:49 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz2vr-0003oA-AF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:19:48 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:56108) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz2vr-0003nZ-51 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 04:19:47 -0500 Received: from 93-41-188-50.ip82.fastwebnet.it ([93.41.188.50] helo=rusty) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz2vd-0006yt-Tj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:19:34 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:19:32 +0100 Message-ID: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Rz2vd-0006yt-Tj X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1330247974.24569@f/3wTikqPGhlJrUql+7DIQ X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) If I type `C-h f kill-buffer', I currently get the following help text: ---- kill-buffer is an interactive built-in function in `C source code'. It is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer', which is bound to C-x k. (kill-buffer &optional BUFFER-OR-NAME) ---- I was puzzled what this meant. Had `kill-buffer' been redefined? What does "remapped" mean? If I try to use `kill-buffer', will I be using `ido-kill-buffer' instead? So I looked at a different function to compare: ---- compose-mail is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `simple.el'. It is bound to C-x m, . ---- Oh, so the "remapped" means something like "this command is usually bound to `C-x k', but currently `C-x k' is bound to `ido-kill-buffer' instead" or something. So I think the help text here could be clearer. In GNU Emacs 24.0.93.34 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.6) of 2012-02-19 on rusty Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11004000 Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no * Sent from my Rome From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Lars Ingebrigtsen'" , <10844@debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.132966527916057 (code B ref 10844); Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:28:02 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2012 15:27:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46117 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz8gA-0004Av-JP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:27:59 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:43701) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rz8g8-0004Ai-9x for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:27:57 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q1JFPhoT007313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:25:44 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q1JFPgPG026864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:25:43 GMT Received: from abhmt118.oracle.com (abhmt118.oracle.com [141.146.116.70]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q1JFPg5x000961; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 09:25:42 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.44.110) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 07:25:41 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 07:25:36 -0800 Message-ID: <610187897B8C491584F6C58355167D46@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> Thread-Index: Aczu59CCQsF57HvKQzOqsB2raO7RSwAMbcuw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4F411478.011D,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > kill-buffer is an interactive built-in function in `C source code'. > It is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer', which is bound to C-x k. > > I was puzzled [by] what this meant. Remapping: the "mapping" is between commands and keys. It should be sufficient to add only a couple of words here to make things clearer. E.g. Its keys have been remapped to `ido-kill-buffer': `C-x k', `C-M-whatever',... ^^^^^^^^ It is fine for the regular doc, which explains things more precisely and at more length, to speak of one _command_ being remapped to another _command_. But here it might be better to speak of one command's key bindings being remapped to another command. That said, I don't have a problem with the current help in this context. I mainly want us to avoid becoming verbose here just in order to make clear what admittedly could be confusing. From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: Phil Sainty Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 'Lars Ingebrigtsen' , 10844@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.132972650122063 (code B ref 10844); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2012 08:28:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46636 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzOba-0005ji-0X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 03:28:20 -0500 Received: from nctlincom01.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.74]:55131) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzObV-0005jV-Vp for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 03:28:15 -0500 Received: from mx6.orcon.net.nz (mx6.orcon.net.nz [219.88.242.56]) by nctlincom01.orcon.net.nz (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id q1K8PcdG032712 for <10844@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:25:38 +1300 Received: from Debian-exim by mx6.orcon.net.nz with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RzOZM-0006hP-KF for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:26:00 +1300 Received: from [60.234.157.21] (helo=[192.168.1.2]) by mx6.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RzOZL-0006gN-LH; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:25:59 +1300 Message-ID: <4F42038E.80300@orcon.net.nz> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:25:50 +1300 From: Phil Sainty User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> <610187897B8C491584F6C58355167D46@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <610187897B8C491584F6C58355167D46@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DSPAM-Check: by mx6.orcon.net.nz on Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:25:59 +1300 X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Mon Feb 20 21:26:00 2012 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.5407 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN, default) X-Spam-Score: 0.00 () [Hold at 5.00] X-CanIt-Geo: ip=60.234.157.21; country=NZ; region=E7; city=Auckland; latitude=-36.8667; longitude=174.7667; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-36.8667,174.7667&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: base:default X-Canit-Stats-ID: 06GA8pCft - 312369f64689 - 20120220 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 172.16.100.174 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On 20/02/2012 04:25, Drew Adams wrote: >> kill-buffer is an interactive built-in function in `C source code'. >> It is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer', which is bound to C-x k. >> >> I was puzzled [by] what this meant. > > Remapping: the "mapping" is between commands and keys. It should be sufficient > to add only a couple of words here to make things clearer. E.g. > > Its keys have been remapped to `ido-kill-buffer': `C-x k', `C-M-whatever',... > ^^^^^^^^ > > It is fine for the regular doc, which explains things more precisely and at more > length, to speak of one _command_ being remapped to another _command_. But here > it might be better to speak of one command's key bindings being remapped to > another command. > > That said, I don't have a problem with the current help in this context. I > mainly want us to avoid becoming verbose here just in order to make clear what > admittedly could be confusing. What if the wording were kept the same, but the word "remapped" was linked to the relevant page in the info manual? That keeps it concise for people who know what it means, and provides all the details for anyone who doesn't. From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Phil Sainty'" Cc: 'Lars Ingebrigtsen' , 10844@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.132975397910376 (code B ref 10844); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:07:02 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2012 16:06:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzVkl-0002hF-5r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 11:06:18 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:23907) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzVkf-0002gz-UI for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 11:06:14 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q1KG3peg028740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:03:52 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q1KG3oYY013914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:03:50 GMT Received: from abhmt107.oracle.com (abhmt107.oracle.com [141.146.116.59]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q1KG3nXo025172; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 10:03:49 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.38.203) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:03:48 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> <610187897B8C491584F6C58355167D46@us.oracle.com> <4F42038E.80300@orcon.net.nz> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:03:42 -0800 Message-ID: <3A2A21EF39C1444D933C065296016C5D@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4F42038E.80300@orcon.net.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: AczvqUmWXcofnNxbTqiUxBjD+yOgtQAPUCow X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4F426EE8.00A3,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > >> It is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer', which is bound to C-x k. > > > > Its keys have been remapped to `ido-kill-buffer': `C-x k', > > `C-M-whatever',... > > What if the wording were kept the same, but the word "remapped" > was linked to the relevant page in the info manual? > > That keeps it concise for people who know what it means, and > provides all the details for anyone who doesn't. Do whatever you want. But: 1. I don't find "It is" much more concise than "Its keys have been" (or "Its keys are"). 2. Does the current text list all of the keys for the remapping? 3. Linking to the manual is good. I've suggested that be done more in the past, but the idea has not been taken up. I even provided a general facility for doing that: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=8900 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-06/msg00368.html From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 10844@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.132975919218557 (code B ref 10844); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:34:02 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2012 17:33:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47656 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzX6t-0004pF-VQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:33:12 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:44804) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzX6r-0004p6-Hl for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:33:10 -0500 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q1KHUutg006107; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:30:56 -0500 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 94484B404C; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:30:56 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:30:56 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:19:32 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4138=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4138> : streams <730568> : uri <1069021> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > kill-buffer is an interactive built-in function in `C source code'. > It is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer', which is bound to C-x k. Indeed, it's a bit confusing. I'm thinking of something along the lines of: ... It is normally bound to C-x k, tho the command is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer'. but I'm not satisfied yet. Can someone help out find a wording that's sufficiently concise for those who know what's going on without being confusing for those who don't? Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 10844@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.132975952819071 (code B ref 10844); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2012 17:38:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzXCG-0004xV-3x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:38:48 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:39137) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzXC9-0004xI-V6 for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:38:42 -0500 Received: from 93-41-188-50.ip82.fastwebnet.it ([93.41.188.50] helo=rusty) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzX9p-0006mx-KJ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:36:13 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:36:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:30:56 -0500") Message-ID: <87r4xpz9tg.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130004 (Ma Gnus v0.4) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1RzX9p-0006mx-KJ X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1330364173.96135@t5yniFpee71ShF1oTpNmvg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Stefan Monnier writes: > Indeed, it's a bit confusing. I'm thinking of something along the lines of: > > ... > It is normally bound to C-x k, > tho the command is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer'. > > but I'm not satisfied yet. Can someone help out find a wording that's > sufficiently concise for those who know what's going on without being > confusing for those who don't? It is normally bound to C-x k, but this keystroke is currently remapped to `ido-kill-buffer'. "Command" is ambiguous, since `kill-buffer' is a command, and we want to avoid saying the `kill-buffer' is "remapped", which is what confused me in the first place. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no * Sent from my Rome From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Stefan Monnier'" , "'Lars Ingebrigtsen'" Cc: 10844@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.132975962519314 (code B ref 10844); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2012 17:40:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47666 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzXDs-00051T-Ht for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:40:24 -0500 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:18321) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzXDq-00051G-5a for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:40:23 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q1KHc2ib018569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:38:03 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q1KHc2el004223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:38:02 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q1KHc1g2011152; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 11:38:01 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.38.203) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:38:01 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:37:54 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Aczv9aWGeuzA5DxgTMi4kHgKECn7VgAAIDXw X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4F4284FC.005C,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > kill-buffer is an interactive built-in function in `C source code'. > > It is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer', which is bound to C-x k. > > Indeed, it's a bit confusing. I'm thinking of something > along the lines of: > It is normally bound to C-x k, > tho the command is remapped to `ido-kill-buffer'. > > but I'm not satisfied yet. Can someone help out find a wording that's > sufficiently concise for those who know what's going on without being > confusing for those who don't? What is wrong with "Its keys are remapped to..." (instead of "It is remapped to...")? Seems concise and clear, to me. From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: Chong Yidong Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 03:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 'Lars Ingebrigtsen' , 'Stefan Monnier' , 10844@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.133014157025040 (code B ref 10844); Sat, 25 Feb 2012 03:47:01 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2012 03:46:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54869 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S18aI-0006Vo-Af for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 22:46:10 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:52648) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S18aF-0006Vc-C9 for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 22:46:08 -0500 Received: from bb116-14-103-36.singnet.com.sg ([116.14.103.36]:55260 helo=furball) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S18Xg-00047t-Dr; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 22:43:29 -0500 From: Chong Yidong References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:43:19 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:37:54 -0800") Message-ID: <878vjrzig8.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) "Drew Adams" writes: > What is wrong with "Its keys are remapped to..." (instead of "It is remapped > to...")? Seems concise and clear, to me. Nothing. I propose this: Its keys are remapped to `ido-kill-buffer'. Without this remapping, it would be bound to C-x k. Any objections? From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 04:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Chong Yidong Cc: 10844@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Stefan Monnier' , Drew Adams Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.133014287126916 (code B ref 10844); Sat, 25 Feb 2012 04:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2012 04:07:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54892 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S18vG-000705-V5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:07:51 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:41407) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S18vD-0006zt-Mc for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:07:49 -0500 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S18sZ-00038t-Eo; Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:05:03 +0100 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> <878vjrzig8.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEUAAABXJh8/Hht3Riwb DxABAQIos7B+AAACUElEQVQ4jW2Uy5bbIAyG6YV9hD37SJb3xczsJyre+6Tm/V+lv8DTzjktSXwc Pn7dEIQj+IixHTHgi9Gf/mv/GbGF77fy79i+vANQmmYTLpkUT8pWlu3b7oCkWlpKyf6ZCkHx9egK qhWyTJNDVxpAvBMlU05MVLIAZlgOUDhgiBhOiTvYxMFtSmnJZMWnOJWSiBOyANgIoiUnETJ4zmzi 4E0wj+UkWtUQdUGQnvu7YnGPpVbrnnizbko5y1Q2ZFNZlp64oFbxpjIh+pJTxRKkUjwqmLoLXQXS 2l/z4zKVuM9TAnBL22PuwBW9EPBRH66geZhSL0VKYhcoee4J3nUW2EHwVeuwujmIPxTRkwCIjHnU YOSBpYLHAwXwzSjuI7qp6tZrB1dxOrjBiA3AmeGsJLWuWNuQGAmLl1g6QBF3V1g1xpwP6yAEberr UXImRKw6XWBt54mdQEEYDQSAZgjNwdlOK7P7IEnQ8l9Fc1DdvhpKtj8/AFbPnj4nmJO6/1FUUfhO qaKPkInKAGd7Qi/oyETeGco9j7buzWivvhabSjQhjqE4otBa3QbaAJ36el7hHtGWlxNL0exqRG9t gDvSWOYT5dAeVX5pT5wo+AihGo4OBidlmlt7uiKu7Tg930zoqvlnXj+D/TRPgRZ5QDBAW3Gimyla asqy295Bz6PhmPxK3tmFxmn2qBoADpwxFDxN73GA0IGf+MeUJi6vLxeIH6A9zx25rfsnU9r/+AM7 cfmIRzgbqnON/PEydwUcXHeO30Txuo6uqyiMCymMccQWfwNKyrX31TrdrQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Coil's _Moon's Milk (In Four Phases) (2)_: "A White Rainbow" Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:05:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <878vjrzig8.fsf@gnu.org> (Chong Yidong's message of "Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:43:19 +0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.130004 (Ma Gnus v0.4) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1S18sZ-00038t-Eo X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1330747503.57637@7WSDQSsxj7cHyzDNm6npRg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) Chong Yidong writes: > Nothing. I propose this: > > Its keys are remapped to `ido-kill-buffer'. Without this remapping, it > would be bound to C-x k. > > Any objections? Looks good to me. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:19:11 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10844: 24.0.93; Slightly unclear help text about remapped commands Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Chong Yidong'" Cc: 'Lars Ingebrigtsen' , 'Stefan Monnier' , 10844@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10844.133014940913116 (code B ref 10844); Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:57:02 +0000 Received: (at 10844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2012 05:56:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54974 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S1Acj-0003PU-2u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Feb 2012 00:56:49 -0500 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:18358) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S1Acf-0003PH-Is for 10844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Feb 2012 00:56:46 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q1P5s4vW001917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:54:05 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q1P5s1O3001161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:54:02 GMT Received: from abhmt118.oracle.com (abhmt118.oracle.com [141.146.116.70]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q1P5s1wd019401; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:54:01 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.40.183) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:54:00 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" References: <87boovnpsr.fsf@gnus.org> <878vjrzig8.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:53:55 -0800 Message-ID: <2B5DDA234E204F08AF52B393134150AD@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <878vjrzig8.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AczzcC6QTTi2IFTvRV26/1eed8YGhwAEU8zg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4F48777E.010A,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > What is wrong with "Its keys are remapped to..." (instead > > of "It is remapped to...")? Seems concise and clear, to me. > > Nothing. I propose this: > > Its keys are remapped to `ido-kill-buffer'. Without this > remapping, it would be bound to C-x k. > > Any objections? As long as all of the keys are mentioned, it's fine. That was part of the discussion: to be sure that all of the keys are listed. (I don't know that they are not already, but let's be sure they are.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 26 04:27:13 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Feb 2012 09:27:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56725 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S1aNs-0001dv-Ja for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Feb 2012 04:27:12 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:44121) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S1aNr-0001dn-Gz for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Feb 2012 04:27:11 -0500 Received: from [155.69.16.142] (port=46649 helo=furball) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S1aLC-0001xx-AY for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Feb 2012 04:24:26 -0500 From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 10844 Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:24:20 +0800 Message-ID: <87mx86ueuz.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) close 10844 thanks