GNU bug report logs - #10781
EIEIO namespace use

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:39:23 -0500

Package: Emacs
Severity: important
Version: 24.0.92

EIEIO needs to be cleaned up so it doesn't intrude all over
the namespace.
The worst offenders include:
- `this'.
- `slot-*'.
- `constructor', `destructor'.
- `delete-instance'.
- `initialize-instance'.
- `clone'.
- `data-debug*'.
- `make-instance'.
- `oref'.
- `oset'.
- `with-slots'.
- `object-*'.
- `class-*'.
- `next-method-p'.
- `call-next-method'.
- error symbols (like no-next-method).
- ... probably `defmethod', `defclass', and `defgeneric'.



In GNU Emacs 24.0.92.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.8)
 of 2012-01-17 on pastel
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Message #8 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: David Engster <deng <at> randomsample.de>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, "Eric M. Ludlam" <eric <at> siege-engine.com>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:28:41 +0200

Stefan Monnier writes:
> EIEIO needs to be cleaned up so it doesn't intrude all over
> the namespace.
> The worst offenders include:
> - `this'.
> - `slot-*'.
> - `constructor', `destructor'.
> - `delete-instance'.
> - `initialize-instance'.
> - `clone'.
> - `data-debug*'.
> - `make-instance'.
> - `oref'.
> - `oset'.
> - `with-slots'.
> - `object-*'.
> - `class-*'.
> - `next-method-p'.
> - `call-next-method'.
> - error symbols (like no-next-method).
> - ... probably `defmethod', `defclass', and `defgeneric'.

I think this should be a goal for the next merge, but I'm at a loss
regarding how this should be tackled without, you know, breaking
practically every bit of code in CEDET and probably others. Do you have
a suggestion? Maybe even creating EIEIOv2 and slowly porting CEDET to
that?

-David

Message #11 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Eric M. Ludlam" <ericludlam <at> gmail.com>
To: David Engster <deng <at> randomsample.de>
Cc: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:29:48 -0400

On 04/28/2012 06:28 AM, David Engster wrote:
> Stefan Monnier writes:
>> EIEIO needs to be cleaned up so it doesn't intrude all over
>> the namespace.
>> The worst offenders include:
>> - `this'.
>> - `slot-*'.
>> - `constructor', `destructor'.
>> - `delete-instance'.
>> - `initialize-instance'.
>> - `clone'.
>> - `data-debug*'.
>> - `make-instance'.
>> - `oref'.
>> - `oset'.
>> - `with-slots'.
>> - `object-*'.
>> - `class-*'.
>> - `next-method-p'.
>> - `call-next-method'.
>> - error symbols (like no-next-method).
>> - ... probably `defmethod', `defclass', and `defgeneric'.
>
> I think this should be a goal for the next merge, but I'm at a loss
> regarding how this should be tackled without, you know, breaking
> practically every bit of code in CEDET and probably others. Do you have
> a suggestion? Maybe even creating EIEIOv2 and slowly porting CEDET to
> that?

Many symbols in eieio are the names given by CLOS, like 
initialize-instance, make-instance, with-slots, and call-next-method. 
Other names like oref/oset were meant to fill gaps where Emacs couldn't 
do it the clos way.  If Emacs is to have a good way to do some basic OO 
programming, it seems to me that the names would match up with other 
core functions that crowd the core namespace, and it would seem poor to 
fill your oo code with a bunch of unnecessarily long names.

That said, there are certainly plenty that could be removed, and I would 
not be sad to see them go... like 'this' and a few of the class-* and 
object-* functions.  Some already have eieio-* equivalents, but I didn't 
finish that.

Eric

Message #14 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: "Eric M. Ludlam" <eric <at> siege-engine.com>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:22:47 -0400

>> EIEIO needs to be cleaned up so it doesn't intrude all over
>> the namespace.
>> The worst offenders include:
>> - `this'.
>> - `slot-*'.
>> - `constructor', `destructor'.
>> - `delete-instance'.
>> - `initialize-instance'.
>> - `clone'.
>> - `data-debug*'.
>> - `make-instance'.
>> - `oref'.
>> - `oset'.
>> - `with-slots'.
>> - `object-*'.
>> - `class-*'.
>> - `next-method-p'.
>> - `call-next-method'.
>> - error symbols (like no-next-method).
>> - ... probably `defmethod', `defclass', and `defgeneric'.

> I think this should be a goal for the next merge, but I'm at a loss
> regarding how this should be tackled without, you know, breaking
> practically every bit of code in CEDET and probably others.  Do you
> have a suggestion? Maybe even creating EIEIOv2 and slowly porting
> CEDET to that?

We'll hopefully be moving the CL library to a new `cl-lib' which uses
the "cl-" prefix consistently.  Maybe EIEIO can use the same prefix for
those cases where "eieio-" would be inconvenient?
This said, the most pressing issue is `this'.


        Stefan

Message #17 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: David Engster <deng <at> randomsample.de>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, "Eric M. Ludlam" <eric <at> siege-engine.com>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 17:55:07 +0200

Stefan Monnier writes:
>>> EIEIO needs to be cleaned up so it doesn't intrude all over
>>> the namespace.
>>> The worst offenders include:
>
>>> - `this'.
>>> - `slot-*'.
>>> - `constructor', `destructor'.
>>> - `delete-instance'.
>>> - `initialize-instance'.
>>> - `clone'.
>>> - `data-debug*'.
>>> - `make-instance'.
>>> - `oref'.
>>> - `oset'.
>>> - `with-slots'.
>>> - `object-*'.
>>> - `class-*'.
>>> - `next-method-p'.
>>> - `call-next-method'.
>>> - error symbols (like no-next-method).
>>> - ... probably `defmethod', `defclass', and `defgeneric'.
>
>> I think this should be a goal for the next merge, but I'm at a loss
>> regarding how this should be tackled without, you know, breaking
>> practically every bit of code in CEDET and probably others.  Do you
>> have a suggestion? Maybe even creating EIEIOv2 and slowly porting
>> CEDET to that?
>
> We'll hopefully be moving the CL library to a new `cl-lib' which uses
> the "cl-" prefix consistently.  Maybe EIEIO can use the same prefix for
> those cases where "eieio-" would be inconvenient?
> This said, the most pressing issue is `this'.

Yes, I think 'this' should indeed become 'eieio-this'. It will also be
the most work, since at least in CEDET you *very* often have

(defmethod foo ((this someclass) ...)
 ...)

so a 'this' in such a method is perfectly fine.

-David

Message #20 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
To: David Engster <deng <at> randomsample.de>
Cc: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, "Eric M. Ludlam" <eric <at> siege-engine.com>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:43:05 -0400

> Yes, I think 'this' should indeed become 'eieio-this'. It will also be
> the most work, since at least in CEDET you *very* often have

> (defmethod foo ((this someclass) ...)
>  ...)

> so a 'this' in such a method is perfectly fine.

An alternative approach is to keep the name `this' but get rid of the
global definition.  I.e. Either completely remove the (defvar this nil),
or replace it with (defvar this).


        Stefan

Message #23 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: David Engster <deng <at> randomsample.de>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Cc: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, "Eric M. Ludlam" <eric <at> siege-engine.com>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 23:03:40 +0200

Stefan Monnier writes:
>> Yes, I think 'this' should indeed become 'eieio-this'. It will also be
>> the most work, since at least in CEDET you *very* often have
>
>> (defmethod foo ((this someclass) ...)
>>  ...)
>
>> so a 'this' in such a method is perfectly fine.
>
> An alternative approach is to keep the name `this' but get rid of the
> global definition.  I.e. Either completely remove the (defvar this nil),
> or replace it with (defvar this).

Eric, what would you prefer? I don't know enough about CLOS to say how
important a global 'eieio-this' actually is. Either way, I just tested
both solutions on CEDET trunk and each produced exactly this single
compile warning:

In ede-flush-directory-hash:
files.el:230:38:Warning: reference to free variable `this'

So actually, this appears to be a much smaller issue than I initially
thought. It seems pretty much every 'this' in CEDET is already bound in
the defmethod's argument list.

-David

Message #26 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Eric M. Ludlam" <ericludlam <at> gmail.com>
To: David Engster <deng <at> randomsample.de>
Cc: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:29:44 -0400

On 04/28/2012 05:03 PM, David Engster wrote:
> Stefan Monnier writes:
>>> Yes, I think 'this' should indeed become 'eieio-this'. It will also be
>>> the most work, since at least in CEDET you *very* often have
>>
>>> (defmethod foo ((this someclass) ...)
>>>   ...)
>>
>>> so a 'this' in such a method is perfectly fine.
>>
>> An alternative approach is to keep the name `this' but get rid of the
>> global definition.  I.e. Either completely remove the (defvar this nil),
>> or replace it with (defvar this).
>
> Eric, what would you prefer? I don't know enough about CLOS to say how
> important a global 'eieio-this' actually is. Either way, I just tested
> both solutions on CEDET trunk and each produced exactly this single
> compile warning:
>
> In ede-flush-directory-hash:
> files.el:230:38:Warning: reference to free variable `this'
>
> So actually, this appears to be a much smaller issue than I initially
> thought. It seems pretty much every 'this' in CEDET is already bound in
> the defmethod's argument list.

I would be happy to see 'this' just completely removed.  It was put in 
when I was mimicing C++, and some old programs of mine that have long 
since rotted away depended on it.  I'm actually surprised there was a 
reference to it in CEDET still.  That will be good to clean up.

Eric

Message #29 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: David Engster <deng <at> randomsample.de>
To: "Eric M. Ludlam" <ericludlam <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:06:27 +0200

Eric M. Ludlam writes:
> I would be happy to see 'this' just completely removed.  It was put in
> when I was mimicing C++, and some old programs of mine that have long
> since rotted away depended on it.  I'm actually surprised there was a
> reference to it in CEDET still.  That will be good to clean up.

OK, I will take care of that.

And while I'm at it: What about 'scoped-class'? It is only used in
`eieio-slot-name-index' and `call-next-method' in EIEIO itself, so it
could at least be made local? I'm not sure if it can be removed
completely.

-David

Message #32 received at 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Ludlam <ericludlam <at> gmail.com>
To: David Engster <deng <at> randomsample.de>
Cc: 10781 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Subject: Re: bug#10781: EIEIO namespace use
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:14:51 -0400

 On 04/29/2012 04:06 AM, David Engster wrote:
> Eric M. Ludlam writes:
>> I would be happy to see 'this' just completely removed.  It was put in
>> when I was mimicing C++, and some old programs of mine that have long
>> since rotted away depended on it.  I'm actually surprised there was a
>> reference to it in CEDET still.  That will be good to clean up.
> OK, I will take care of that.
>
> And while I'm at it: What about 'scoped-class'? It is only used in
> `eieio-slot-name-index' and `call-next-method' in EIEIO itself, so it
> could at least be made local? I'm not sure if it can be removed
> completely.

That is an internal symbol... or should be, and can be renamed as such.

Thanks David!
Eric

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