From unknown Tue Sep 09 02:38:29 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#10773 <10773@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#10773 <10773@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: define-derived-mode/define-minor-mode to declare hook variables Reply-To: bug#10773 <10773@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2025 09:38:29 +0000 retitle 10773 define-derived-mode/define-minor-mode to declare hook variabl= es reassign 10773 emacs submitter 10773 Juri Linkov severity 10773 wishlist tag 10773 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 09 04:49:30 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2012 09:49:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33260 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvQd8-0001O4-6s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:49:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:45112) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvQd6-0001Ns-HM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:49:28 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvQbr-0004TB-9K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:48:16 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:54655) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvQbr-0004T5-7l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:48:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:41020) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvQbl-0007FE-RJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:48:11 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvQbf-0004QO-RG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:48:05 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:45460 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvQbf-0004Q4-LX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:47:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF48451C815 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2012 01:46:37 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: set-variable can't change values of user options Organization: JURTA Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:43:43 +0200 Message-ID: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Package: emacs Version: 24.0.93 Severity: wishlist emacs -Q C-h C-t M-x set-variable RET outline-mode-hook RET (hide-body) RET M-x set-variable RET outline-minor-mode-hook RET [No match] Why users are allowed to change the value of `outline-mode-hook', but not `outline-minor-mode-hook'? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 09 13:29:28 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2012 18:29:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34002 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvYkJ-0005pn-W8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:29:28 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:54056 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvYkH-0005pg-Q3 for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:29:26 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvYjA-0006e6-Cc; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:28:16 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Spook: David John Oates Ron Brown Kosovo terrorist InfoSec X-Ran: ;gaM(F3^i:7h7F9w!we%6m+oIJxeVGID!,aTZBoX=y7Gm\.`>t{xk (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:43:43 +0200") Message-ID: <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Juri Linkov wrote: > Why users are allowed to change the value of `outline-mode-hook', > but not `outline-minor-mode-hook'? The former is defined with (defvar ... "*..."). The latter is not defined anywhere, but as define-derived-mode says about hooks and has been covered several times: No problems result if this variable is not bound. `add-hook' automatically binds it. (This is true for all hook variables.) I would says it's not very useful to pass a hook to set-variable anyway, since you need to type a lisp expression, and probably should use an explicit add-hook statement. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 10 03:18:53 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2012 08:18:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34493 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvlgz-0002EO-9P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:18:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:38833) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvlgr-0002E7-E3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:18:51 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvlfY-0003Z2-6D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:17:28 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:45720) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvlfY-0003Yy-4a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:17:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36573) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvlfT-0001ez-Rj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:17:23 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvlfM-0003Wc-1P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:17:19 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:49750) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvlfL-0003WH-LI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:17:12 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RvlfI-0003i9-42 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:17:08 +0100 Received: from c-71-237-25-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([71.237.25.24]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:17:08 +0100 Received: from kevin.d.rodgers by c-71-237-25-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:17:08 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Kevin Rodgers Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:18:06 -0700 Lines: 61 Message-ID: References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-71-237-25-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.26) Gecko/20120129 Thunderbird/3.1.18 In-Reply-To: <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) On 2/9/12 11:28 AM, Glenn Morris wrote: > Juri Linkov wrote: > >> Why users are allowed to change the value of `outline-mode-hook', >> but not `outline-minor-mode-hook'? > > The former is defined with (defvar ... "*..."). > The latter is not defined anywhere, but as define-derived-mode says > about hooks and has been covered several times: > > No problems result if this variable is not bound. > `add-hook' automatically binds it. (This is true for all hook variables.) > > I would says it's not very useful to pass a hook to set-variable anyway, > since you need to type a lisp expression, and probably should use > an explicit add-hook statement. Or allow add-hook (and remove-hook) to be called interactively, for convenience: --- - 2012-02-10 01:14:16.000000000 -0700 +++ /tmp/subr.el 2012-02-10 01:13:17.000000000 -0700 @@ -1216,15 +1216,17 @@ unless the optional argument APPEND is non-nil, in which case FUNCTION is added at the end. -The optional fourth argument, LOCAL, if non-nil, says to modify -the hook's buffer-local value rather than its default value. -This makes the hook buffer-local if needed, and it makes t a member -of the buffer-local value. That acts as a flag to run the hook -functions in the default value as well as in the local value. +The optional fourth argument, LOCAL, if non-nil or an interactive +prefix arg, says to modify the hook's buffer-local value rather +than its default value. This makes the hook buffer-local if +needed, and it makes t a member of the buffer-local value. That +acts as a flag to run the hook functions in the default value as +well as in the local value. HOOK should be a symbol, and FUNCTION may be any valid function. If HOOK is void, it is first set to nil. If HOOK's value is a single function, it is changed to a list of functions." + (interactive "SHook: \naFunction: \ni\nP") (or (boundp hook) (set hook nil)) (or (default-boundp hook) (set-default hook nil)) (if local (unless (local-variable-if-set-p hook) @@ -1264,8 +1266,10 @@ FUNCTION isn't the value of HOOK, or, if FUNCTION doesn't appear in the list of hooks to run in HOOK, then nothing is done. See `add-hook'. -The optional third argument, LOCAL, if non-nil, says to modify -the hook's buffer-local value rather than its default value." +The optional third argument, LOCAL, if non-nil (interactively, +with prefix argument) says to modify the hook's buffer-local +value rather than its default value." + (interactive "SHook: \naFunction: \nP") (or (boundp hook) (set hook nil)) (or (default-boundp hook) (set-default hook nil)) ;; Do nothing if LOCAL is t but this hook has no local binding. -- Kevin Rodgers Denver, Colorado, USA From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 10 05:24:21 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2012 10:24:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34561 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvneJ-00055X-F5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:24:19 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:49396 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvneC-000551-Kf for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:24:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7316451C84F; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:21:34 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Organization: JURTA References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:18:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:28:16 -0500") Message-ID: <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> Why users are allowed to change the value of `outline-mode-hook', >> but not `outline-minor-mode-hook'? > > The former is defined with (defvar ... "*..."). > The latter is not defined anywhere, but as define-derived-mode says > about hooks and has been covered several times: > > No problems result if this variable is not bound. > `add-hook' automatically binds it. (This is true for all hook variables.) > > I would says it's not very useful to pass a hook to set-variable anyway, > since you need to type a lisp expression, and probably should use > an explicit add-hook statement. Currently William Stevenson is working on converting minor modes to use `define-minor-mode', so more minor mode hooks will lose an ability to be changed using `set-variable'. I don't have an opinion whether this is good or bad. I just discovered the inconsistency between `outline-mode-hook' and `outline-minor-mode-hook' when trying to set temporarily them to the same value with `set-variable'. What I still don't understand is why some hooks have "*" in the docstring. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 10 12:32:51 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2012 17:32:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35167 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvuL5-0008JU-M4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:32:51 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:54113 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvuL3-0008JM-GV for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:32:50 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvuJp-0006wQ-Hu; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:31:33 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-Spook: clandestine $400 million in gold bullion Soviet mania NSA X-Ran: U[xfrPYS1Ac}>P|$E""Pozidg}~tNau}DZg;.#ernym+5hQHf (Juri Linkov's message of "Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:18:56 +0200") Message-ID: <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Juri Linkov wrote: > Currently William Stevenson is working on converting minor modes to use > `define-minor-mode', so more minor mode hooks will lose an ability to be > changed using `set-variable'. I don't have an opinion whether this is > good or bad. I think it is irrelevant / good. > What I still don't understand is why some hooks have "*" in the docstring. Perhaps it depends whether one interprets "*" as meaning "something a user might want to set in .emacs", or "something a user might want to set interactively" (this is what "Tips and Conventions" says). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 10 13:03:09 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2012 18:03:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35201 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvuoO-0000dG-Kp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:03:09 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:54631 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RvuoL-0000d7-FR for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:03:06 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvun8-0005sU-QQ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:01:50 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: BRLO airframe cybercash beanpole Clinton virus top secret X-Ran: ](#gp_zkYw9KTLQ=M$]3>?]b];cx3pVsRRa]W9*MV]OR{GQU33mtm[+^qzs%pCgE"pI6s/ X-Hue: magenta X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:01:50 -0500 In-Reply-To: <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:31:32 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Glenn Morris wrote: >> Currently William Stevenson is working on converting minor modes to use >> `define-minor-mode', so more minor mode hooks will lose an ability to be >> changed using `set-variable'. I don't have an opinion whether this is >> good or bad. > > I think it is irrelevant / good. PS If it is thought to be bad, the right solution would seem to be to make define-minor-mode declare the hook with an appropriate defvar, which it easily could. But I think that has been previously rejected. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 12 10:16:10 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2012 15:16:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37666 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwb9t-0006rP-Vw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:16:10 -0500 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:36030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwb9r-0006rH-KG for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:16:08 -0500 Received: from ceviche.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q1CFEeW6011053; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:14:40 -0500 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 5265B666B1; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:34:15 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Message-ID: References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:34:15 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:01:50 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 2 Rules triggered GEN_SPAM_FEATRE=0.2, RV4129=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4129> : streams <727922> : uri <1064033> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: Juri Linkov , 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > But I think that has been previously rejected. That was a long time ago. We should do it for 24.2. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 12 15:17:41 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2012 20:17:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37800 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwfre-0008Ij-4P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:17:39 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:41861 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwfra-0008IT-O0 for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:17:35 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RwfqB-0006Ky-I4; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:16:07 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Ortega Taiwan Mossad RSA interception digicash benelux X-Ran: ]-"G!hkyj-x[p3-CIN&wb=]oz;_$ User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: Juri Linkov , 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Stefan Monnier wrote: >> But I think that has been previously rejected. > > That was a long time ago. We should do it for 24.2. That's a surprise. What's changed? This feature was taken out 2005-05-17. Why does define-derived-mode deliberately go out of its way to NOT do this? Will that be changed too? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 12 22:00:11 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2012 03:00:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38045 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwm9C-0005W4-QF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:00:11 -0500 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:33555) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwm9A-0005Vt-CP for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:00:09 -0500 Received: from pastel.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q1D2wd7p027746; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:58:39 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CA0BA59537; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:58:38 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Message-ID: References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:58:38 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:16:07 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4130=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4130> : streams <728074> : uri <1064333> X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: Juri Linkov , 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) >>> But I think that has been previously rejected. >> That was a long time ago. We should do it for 24.2. > That's a surprise. What's changed? Resources. > This feature was taken out 2005-05-17. > Why does define-derived-mode deliberately go out of its way to NOT do > this? Will that be changed too? Yes, Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 13 12:37:23 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2012 17:37:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39149 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwzq7-0003GM-7x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:37:23 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:33899 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwzq5-0003GD-6s for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:37:21 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwzob-0000dF-I6 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:35:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:35:49 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 10773 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) retitle 10773 define-derived-mode/define-minor-mode to declare hook variables From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 20 20:18:16 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2012 01:18:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47898 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzeMw-0008El-DG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:18:15 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:34143 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzeMu-0008EZ-SM for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:18:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5820E451C899 for <10773@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:14:25 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: 10773@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Organization: JURTA References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 02:40:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:43:43 +0200") Message-ID: <87mx8dt2mt.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) In my opinion, the best way to eliminate the distinction between user variables (with the leading '*' in the docstring) and customizable variables in 24.2 is: 1. Make `user-variable-p' an alias for `custom-variable-p'. 2. Remove the `user-variable-p' condition from `set-variable'. This will fix the reported case where `set-variable' can change the value of `outline-mode-hook', but not `outline-minor-mode-hook'; and many other similar cases. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 21 10:29:37 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2012 15:29:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48914 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rzreq-0002KM-Vr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:29:37 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:34694) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rzreo-0002K7-B4 for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:29:35 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q1LFRAk0006209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:27:10 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q1LFR5IY015847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:27:06 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q1LFR5dm029305; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:27:05 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.55.254) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:27:05 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" , <10773@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mx8dt2mt.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:26:57 -0800 Message-ID: <6E2C6DFEC18A42E98A69D5044CF56936@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87mx8dt2mt.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: AczwNoNhOEos62/kSH2HoEVUrpwV3AAdoWPw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4F43B7CF.001E,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > In my opinion, the best way to eliminate the distinction > between user variables (with the leading '*' in the docstring) > and customizable variables in 24.2 is: > > 1. Make `user-variable-p' an alias for `custom-variable-p'. > > 2. Remove the `user-variable-p' condition from `set-variable'. > > This will fix the reported case where `set-variable' can change > the value of `outline-mode-hook', but not `outline-minor-mode-hook'; > and many other similar cases. And how will that help code that uses (defvar foo "*A user variable.")? Users have always been able to set such a user variable using `set-variable'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 21 19:20:28 2012 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2012 00:20:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49430 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzzwZ-0002PH-Nk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:20:28 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:47585 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RzzwX-0002PA-WF for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:20:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557EE451C749; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:16:31 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Organization: JURTA References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87mx8dt2mt.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <6E2C6DFEC18A42E98A69D5044CF56936@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 02:16:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <6E2C6DFEC18A42E98A69D5044CF56936@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:26:57 -0800") Message-ID: <87mx8bvi2d.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> In my opinion, the best way to eliminate the distinction >> between user variables (with the leading '*' in the docstring) >> and customizable variables in 24.2 is: >> >> 1. Make `user-variable-p' an alias for `custom-variable-p'. >> >> 2. Remove the `user-variable-p' condition from `set-variable'. >> >> This will fix the reported case where `set-variable' can change >> the value of `outline-mode-hook', but not `outline-minor-mode-hook'; >> and many other similar cases. > > And how will that help code that uses > (defvar foo "*A user variable.")? IIUC, the plan is to deprecate this feature, to not maintain two parallel systems of user customizable variables. > Users have always been able to set such a user variable using `set-variable'. With the proposed change above, users can continue to set variables using `set-variable'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 11:22:08 2020 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2020 15:22:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47803 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJegi-0000Xz-5S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:22:08 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJegf-0000XM-Ik for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:22:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ImR2YzpgHzcOjDsYrH1SV30jKzQQMe+pzY3Z1sX8yvE=; b=m2MifHMgcLa/a2t4fWjLwbi2So MfDMmDCALvGBxTDM0vdKjEGm9prhnc6NXDssacPk0mwar3PiYeo/ceFQUjJPTRk+gV+kw3EnV5aVs 4j/FzN0z4wD3JMQsW6pVYPxZ0BZsCwiHLiSy+cQlq3Drr9s3zLRFG2yGXGlcumCoBZDE=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJegV-0006XD-T3; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:21:58 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Propaganda's _A Secret Wish (2)_: "(Echo Of) Frozen Faces" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:21:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:34:15 -0500") Message-ID: <878sd5pzam.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier writes: >> But I think that has been previously rejected. > > That was a long time ago. We should do it for 24.2. Reintroducing defvars for define-minor-mode hook variables was done the following year: Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: Juri Linkov , Glenn Morris , 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier writes: >> But I think that has been previously rejected. > > That was a long time ago. We should do it for 24.2. Reintroducing defvars for define-minor-mode hook variables was done the following year: commit 7f17cc40ef9120ba1b1715399432f26e8850505a Author: Stefan Monnier AuthorDate: Mon May 27 12:12:52 2013 -0400 Always defvar a mode's hook and provide a docstring. * lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el (define-minor-mode): * lisp/emacs-lisp/derived.el (define-derived-mode): Always defvar the mode hook and provide a docstring. There's still the question of using allowing these variables to be customized, and that still doesn't work: (customize-variable 'flyspell-mode-hook) -> "NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized." But... why not? So I've now added the patch below to Emacs 28. diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el index e3eb9294ed..fdc1233540 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el @@ -335,6 +335,9 @@ define-minor-mode No problems result if this variable is not bound. `add-hook' automatically binds it. (This is true for all hook variables.)" modefun))) + ;; Allow using using `M-x customize-variable' on the hook. + (put ',hook 'custom-type 'hook) + (put ',hook 'standard-value (list nil)) ;; Define the minor-mode keymap. ,(unless (symbolp keymap) ;nil is also a symbol. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 11:22:22 2020 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2020 15:22:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47806 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJegw-0000YS-Dr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:22:22 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42466) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJegl-0000Xo-BE for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:22:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/yjWmorHFRLGLNY7CGB8sxMI/B7dpVrKGXxDUNwz4RE=; b=UBywp3teMgmC3gOjMx1FGa29lB bRH7dpgTfdKAz+L6UNigddwQ1tsK/nmf/pPYIf7wKRNVTR2YmBaEUi9Them4HY+9K/D0w9JBBR0f4 xYucHn6nS54jpAgx9Y3BqECoz4HJawPvrVWZ6H70C/LAZzu8L6ZkY7t9MPvAnEkf6tes=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJegd-0006Xd-LI for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:22:05 +0200 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:22:02 +0200 Message-Id: <877dsppzad.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #10773 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 10773 fixed close 10773 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 10773 fixed close 10773 28.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 11:46:14 2020 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2020 15:46:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47841 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJf42-0003KA-KU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:46:14 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:2840) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJf3z-0003Ju-Vn for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:46:14 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6BC16810D1; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id EE31880921; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:46:04 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1600530364; bh=DzI0eO0akLLt6Bt+YHoZMhyH0le0D4QgNvSh9KPqGP4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=IssfXlEYW3bneCYuWgnneKLC1n+RubdeERMkxKmSGvq84kZZBFKOXVQ7lHbXt0VsP CnU+QRRawjvvd4CB2fAcbui0MqAa8EFofuwAzLHYCRKj8tVIbRMZ4n+PbY+xPN/HAs EMCzqY1HElglnq7fFjQyTkh8alNEopA3A5Fll1a1g5z0nV4gT4bqm5pzdY/8Q8MpBn I7sWDVfecHXotWDi6m+JPGCjFCWliHTueuQ0lhxhT6N+ddGFlkhNL7tQAA4+XghWzN Tb5lQNilFFCaq98KV7XCE+S8Fb9yvgD5beCHm166oKLPetyQFNOsBHHejAxGZqlXxK kxm6qrcQrnsKQ== Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BA9FB12064D; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:46:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Message-ID: References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <878sd5pzam.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:46:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <878sd5pzam.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:21:53 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.075 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: Juri Linkov , Glenn Morris , 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > There's still the question of using allowing these variables to be > customized, and that still doesn't work: > > (customize-variable 'flyspell-mode-hook) > -> "NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized." > > But... why not? I don't have a strong opinion either way. > So I've now added the patch below to Emacs 28. > > diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el > index e3eb9294ed..fdc1233540 100644 > --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el > +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/easy-mmode.el > @@ -335,6 +335,9 @@ define-minor-mode > No problems result if this variable is not bound. > `add-hook' automatically binds it. (This is true for all hook variables.)" > modefun))) > + ;; Allow using using `M-x customize-variable' on the hook. > + (put ',hook 'custom-type 'hook) > + (put ',hook 'standard-value (list nil)) > > ;; Define the minor-mode keymap. > ,(unless (symbolp keymap) ;nil is also a symbol. Shouldn't we be using `defcustom` instead of hard-coding Custom's "internal" properties? Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 11:49:28 2020 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2020 15:49:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47855 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJf6v-0003PS-N8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:49:28 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43810) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJf6t-0003PA-HK for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:49:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6Qsj6DIqyZZSm1pbiTpF2qNC/fhIyO2bous6OYNeLwQ=; b=BvJxVsMFLMQ9/hTCjH7kQ8OXzt gI9vyEY/1Gl+qvX8RWFCBun8FQjJUayGXoLgjoNgnvnDpqdZCay1CuoaHxBcNLSfKnVuY/WNxX1Ax vyfm5AFfVummEJ6GGXyLvMFg635ZZgjQtyMbDrl23E5se3jWEAlRPpm9VUuIdKN3MFz4=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJf6k-0007W6-UT; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:49:05 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <878sd5pzam.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEVQPzIsKChaVlSQ dmH///9tYVkDAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+QJEw8wANqnGPoAAAHDSURBVDjLXVTZgeww CBOkAXAFPhrYZ/ff23J5Jvvmw+NEyAYhAlKVaT+1X64ab2AAOzACGAk0A2ItyryUGQwjDI5gCxmS hAFpEfeH4n+gPN8o/a5OUASB3hSJLSohD0vKCEIASlVMUnKDT+5rnQzPNwiYKpeRKlAAdjKBQgAP YPY3BqQytgE6eG/SYmikogLIGco/fmRPIPIR3bLtRb8VIXN3OIBxn1EFiHKzo9o/qhPgTIsU6XMZ QJeCqrhb4mxlgOtSBEFaV+LHjsGVF3mDPVKz4IarGColjzNGe/bMyjIiAGHSB7eHyJR8xbGcJ0/X zQSqCLsDB7QnV9+/d1iiTIdf/cisaDQ1G4G/HQxH9S1Cc5y1b8/TVjImGvEP90nlEs1Wwto9uK9s pWtFSdGlDjwmc2lFZQImGTL1ofKYAWE1sZrIxFqUJvAxyF7uc0YzecNJrhU5xQV5NtwAdCdKyj7q RqEaNYv9+CptewEOoEUlbe2z/8ygpMPC5v0SJl5j1Pk1K3jNkjenF4HwJcy15x3e/hHR9uucfeeN FJ8J781qrxns2ag7swjfdq4+VK5uFq3vSrWW/vvuvGYw7PMRI4N+AZ1pZVxiDlGMAAAAJXRFWHRk YXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIwLTA5LTE5VDE1OjQ3OjU5KzAwOjAwh19PmwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2Rp ZnkAMjAyMC0wOS0xOVQxNTo0Nzo1OSswMDowMPYC9ycAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Propaganda's _Wishful Thinking_: "Jewelled" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:49:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:46:04 -0400") Message-ID: <87sgbdojgx.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier writes: > Shouldn't we be using `defcustom` instead of hard-coding Custom's > "internal" properties? Yes. But I was worried that defcustom would be too heavy-handed here. And it seems unlikely that these properties would change much. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: Juri Linkov , Glenn Morris , 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier writes: > Shouldn't we be using `defcustom` instead of hard-coding Custom's > "internal" properties? Yes. But I was worried that defcustom would be too heavy-handed here. And it seems unlikely that these properties would change much. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 19 12:05:11 2020 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2020 16:05:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47870 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJfMN-0005wI-Ff for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:05:11 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:61583) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJfMJ-0005vv-Ex for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:05:10 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 26A7B441212; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C2BC5441116; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:05:00 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1600531500; bh=UpF65x/kXtssqjgPMhNy7tplUzJ4YxYItEGhUyqveKs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Zt5/IzC3eg3/F2M4H5MkTDO27Z4kkYOnWLDH2ksLyEqjl9P96A4WUf4p1kZOdeVzm oYreXHt1zLhC/wkPApUbix5JgCZJzqkcV94ELDLNdzcguJRpSik2LhAzm8li+gqFYZ ZVfvMQM1DClSBksg+JccsmmNc+QFj0Ap0Ti+IsQuglCVXPARTQeBG2tNc0GG6v212X 3tE9PqHe0GfDXF7EQ4/0ALG5aVEBY+Z8sZueLRMcYdG1u3evwGaNxTnOUqhdy5Znnm zxLpkisqP4giQBP25/ws0BZJGeL0N5XbFdzlnKXMbOdoYwGnGqJ2MeDAGFH9ACdkOv nP95lIcCgsRlg== Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9069212066F; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:05:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options Message-ID: References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <878sd5pzam.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgbdojgx.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:04:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87sgbdojgx.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:49:02 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.055 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: Juri Linkov , Glenn Morris , 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> Shouldn't we be using `defcustom` instead of hard-coding Custom's >> "internal" properties? > Yes. But I was worried that defcustom would be too heavy-handed here. I think if you're worried about the "cost" of `defcustom`, then we may as well stick to `defvar` (after all, it's not like it'll be very easy/convenient for the user to use the Custom UI to add a function on those hooks). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 20 05:14:48 2020 Received: (at 10773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2020 09:14:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48691 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJvQm-0006IF-Mh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 05:14:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kJvQk-0006I0-Lq for 10773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 05:14:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4Xhq++QGChZjW+Oy357PD0wBXyUNHXkywPFTEkqMBfk=; b=u++6KDK10kJe7FxyOaBcLqUzX1 xE0ueuzm2NmUlXCZOetGyeQ11NJJ/rlqiab3fmDajIn3Pd9ftpPUhBzmBVGDpCaTt/uI/qDFzBy2S gshaxEywha+afjGTMxH4f2U6j49zth7FNBHE1uCZSetqIiXxyY8io1ZexgrEDLIQpmK8=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJvQZ-0005Ut-Ow; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 11:14:39 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#10773: set-variable can't change values of user options References: <87r4y4fik0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <5w1uq3lv3z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sjijt2jv.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <64pqdm4mtn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <878sd5pzam.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgbdojgx.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAJ1BMVEX8/P3U19a7xcyp u8yVoqlpZ1OIhnGZrsR6kKJKSDY2MiUsKBr///9fa0aiAAAAAWJLR0QMgbNRYwAAAAd0SU1FB+QJ FAkKHHJV3scAAAGoSURBVDjLpdJBT8IwFADgdgG5roKJR5EL3oRi5lFjRfBMlwwvHmAJR7OY+ANI wLs16e47rPwCtz/n6zZgHcGL79BDv76+vNcitA0bHQlC7GNgndrIthHBCBtgdWi75rpzl3NeSsZN Smn7hM9934BmAPu0X+d5bAEP1g8a3nJw/QKs0XIUUAfgKgN/B0sGMICrxvlNswIwgL6JOkWJbQZi jGUw4J40in+wpwxuOZcQe+iyVQ5CH5fc3cJ5ATcir7GDBsvaoO+y0mBjqcGhYylMsDIY0M8q4HU2 qkNAo8DROYsD+KAUchxPChDQHXTziXhSqdjIaBUTmSqlRBkax8CC7eDS4iFAVAYc0D4hNR5N8yJ7 WPUwISdciArof2jjOr+fPCsFcFH6PnjWO+P3dj0xMwjBQ9eff7U7jz9GDQD4af53i40j4yobaeBs KBLowyvVQBgOvrxOZ2EMr14BL/xiVqjiCkgRqk3Ugt5lWAZLwmhV6MESmxDrQalELxVQ+7guQ2l/ c/c/SP7MSNKkCjjrwIXX3VQywjRNo8lwkcReamTwfRjT/Xf8AmV088BEgwQVAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRl OmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIwLTA5LTIwVDA5OjEwOjI4KzAwOjAwMTL32gAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkA MjAyMC0wOS0yMFQwOToxMDoyOCswMDowMEBvT2YAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Andrew Poppy's _On Zang Tuum Tumb (2): Alphabed (a mystery dance)_: "Goodbye Mr G" Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 11:14:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:04:59 -0400") Message-ID: <871riwu7wl.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier writes: >>> Shouldn't we be using `defcustom` instead of hard-coding Custom's >>> "internal" properties? >> Yes. But I was worried that defcustom would be too heavy-handed here. > > I think if you're worried [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10773 Cc: Juri Linkov , Glenn Morris , 10773@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier writes: >>> Shouldn't we be using `defcustom` instead of hard-coding Custom's >>> "internal" properties? >> Yes. But I was worried that defcustom would be too heavy-handed here. > > I think if you're worried about the "cost" of `defcustom`, then we may > as well stick to `defvar` I was mainly worried that defcustom had further other subtle effects that I'm not aware of (:group? :version? the mandatory doc string?), but looking at the code in custom-declare-variable, it looks pretty straightforward... (Famous last words.) > (after all, it's not like it'll be very easy/convenient for the user > to use the Custom UI to add a function on those hooks). I think there's probably several bug reports about doing something about that. :-/ -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Tue Sep 09 02:38:29 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 11:24:10 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator