GNU bug report logs - #10751
24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: 7 Feb 2012 12:13:26 +0100

1. emacs -Q with no ~/News directory.
2. I typed ` M-x gnus RET', then `y' at prompt "Continue?"  after
getting error 'news/nntp Name or service not known)' to proceed to empty
Gnus group buffer. 
3. Then I typed `C-x m' to open a buffer in Message mode, put a valid
email address in the To: header line, type `C-c C-f C-b' to add a Bcc:
header line and put a different valid email address in it, and completed
the email (subject, text).
4. Then I typed `C-c C-c' to send the email, using smtp with an existing
~/.authinfo. 

=> My mailbox received two copies of the email, both sent to the address
in the To: header line.  In both there is no Bcc: header line, and there
was no email sent to the address in the Bcc: header line.  I've tried
this three times, same result. Of course, this used work.

In GNU Emacs 24.0.93.1 (i686-suse-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.7)
 of 2012-02-07 on escher
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11004000
Configured using:
 `configure '--without-toolkit-scroll-bars' 'CFLAGS=-g''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=local
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Message #8 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:24:02 +0100

"Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net> writes:

> 1. emacs -Q with no ~/News directory.
> 2. I typed ` M-x gnus RET', then `y' at prompt "Continue?"  after
> getting error 'news/nntp Name or service not known)' to proceed to empty
> Gnus group buffer. 
> 3. Then I typed `C-x m' to open a buffer in Message mode, put a valid
> email address in the To: header line, type `C-c C-f C-b' to add a Bcc:
> header line and put a different valid email address in it, and completed
> the email (subject, text).
> 4. Then I typed `C-c C-c' to send the email, using smtp with an existing
> ~/.authinfo. 

Do you have to start Gnus first to see this bug?  Does "emacs -Q" and
then `C-x m' also display this behaviour?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #11 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
To: "Lars Ingebrigtsen" <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: 7 Feb 2012 21:42:24 +0100

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:24:02 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:

> "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net> writes:
>
>> 1. emacs -Q with no ~/News directory.
>> 2. I typed ` M-x gnus RET', then `y' at prompt "Continue?"  after
>> getting error 'news/nntp Name or service not known)' to proceed to empty
>> Gnus group buffer. 
>> 3. Then I typed `C-x m' to open a buffer in Message mode, put a valid
>> email address in the To: header line, type `C-c C-f C-b' to add a Bcc:
>> header line and put a different valid email address in it, and completed
>> the email (subject, text).
>> 4. Then I typed `C-c C-c' to send the email, using smtp with an existing
>> ~/.authinfo. 
>
> Do you have to start Gnus first to see this bug?  

No...

>                                                   Does "emacs -Q" and
> then `C-x m' also display this behaviour?

... Yes, it's exactly as in my OP.  So it's not a Gnus but a Message
mode bug.  (Sorry for not thinking to test that; I always use Gnus for
email in Emacs, so just assumed it was involved.)

Steve Berman

Message #14 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:52:23 +0100

"Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net> writes:

> ... Yes, it's exactly as in my OP.  So it's not a Gnus but a Message
> mode bug. 

I've just tried this (emacs -Q, `C-x m', added a Bcc header), and the
message seems to have been sent to both the To and the Bcc addresses.
So I'm not able to reproduce this bug.

This is with the current Emacs 24 trunk, but I don't think there's been
any changes in this dept since 24.0.93.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #19 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:02:05 -0500

"Stephen Berman" wrote:

> => My mailbox received two copies of the email, both sent to the address
> in the To: header line.

> In both there is no Bcc: header line

That's the nature of BCC, no?

>, and there was no email sent to the address in the Bcc: header line.

Works for me.

I don't supposed your bcc address somehow redirects to the To address?
That would explain why you get two copies.

Message #22 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
To: "Lars Ingebrigtsen" <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: 7 Feb 2012 22:10:19 +0100

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:52:23 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:

> "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net> writes:
>
>> ... Yes, it's exactly as in my OP.  So it's not a Gnus but a Message
>> mode bug. 
>
> I've just tried this (emacs -Q, `C-x m', added a Bcc header), and the
> message seems to have been sent to both the To and the Bcc addresses.
          ?????
          Why are you in doubt?

> So I'm not able to reproduce this bug.
>
> This is with the current Emacs 24 trunk, but I don't think there's been
> any changes in this dept since 24.0.93.

I tested with a build from Bzr-107164, this morning's trunk.  Could this
have something to do with the SMTP server?  Though BCC worked with this
server six months ago...  Is there anything you can think of that I can
try to debug this?

Steve Berman

Message #25 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 22:19:09 +0100

"Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net> writes:

>> I've just tried this (emacs -Q, `C-x m', added a Bcc header), and the
>> message seems to have been sent to both the To and the Bcc addresses.
>           ?????
>           Why are you in doubt?

When am I ever not?

> I tested with a build from Bzr-107164, this morning's trunk.  Could this
> have something to do with the SMTP server?  Though BCC worked with this
> server six months ago...  Is there anything you can think of that I can
> try to debug this?

It's possible that your SMTP server is totally ignoring the address that
smtpmail.el is telling it to send the email to, but that would be rather
odd behaviour.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #28 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
To: "Glenn Morris" <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: 7 Feb 2012 22:22:11 +0100

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:02:05 -0500 Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> "Stephen Berman" wrote:
>
>> => My mailbox received two copies of the email, both sent to the address
>> in the To: header line.
>
>> In both there is no Bcc: header line
>
> That's the nature of BCC, no?

Not with an email I sent from Gnus last July; this is how it looks
(aside from the anonymization) in the Gnus Article buffer:

From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Subject: Bla bla
To: Stephen.Berman <at> gmx.net
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:32:57 +0200 (29 weeks, 11 hours, 33 minutes ago)
Bcc: xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxxxxxxx.xxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxxx.xxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxx.xxxxxxxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxx.xxxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxxxxx.xxxxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxx.xxxxxxxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx, xxxx.xxxxxxxx <at> xxxx-xxx-xxxxxx.xx

Is this wrong?  In any case, this mail did arrive at the addresses in
both the To: and the Bcc: header lines.

>>, and there was no email sent to the address in the Bcc: header line.
>
> Works for me.
>
> I don't supposed your bcc address somehow redirects to the To address?
> That would explain why you get two copies.

No, I used addresses that do not have anything to do with each other.

Steve Berman

Message #31 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:28:48 -0500

"Stephen Berman" wrote:

>> That's the nature of BCC, no?
>
> Not with an email I sent from Gnus last July; this is how it looks
> (aside from the anonymization) in the Gnus Article buffer:

Maybe you are talking about a Gnus archived copy (GCC?), which may or
may not preserve any BCC field, I don't know. But if you actually send a
mail with a BCC header through any kind of mail system and the BCC is
still visible at the other end when it arrives, then that's obviously a
bug, because the whole point of BCC is that the recipients cannot see
it.

But having written that I looked it up and apparently there's no
guarantee it will work that way. Everything I ever knew is wrong...

Message #34 received at 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 10751 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 22:47:12 +0100

Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> writes:

> But having written that I looked it up and apparently there's no
> guarantee it will work that way.

That's the way all mail user agents I know of interpret the Bcc header.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #39 received at 10751-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Stephen Berman" <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
To: 10751-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Subject: Re: bug#10751: 24.0.93; BCC in Gnus isn't working
Date: 7 Feb 2012 22:52:44 +0100

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:28:48 -0500 Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> "Stephen Berman" wrote:
>
>>> That's the nature of BCC, no?
>>
>> Not with an email I sent from Gnus last July; this is how it looks
>> (aside from the anonymization) in the Gnus Article buffer:
>
> Maybe you are talking about a Gnus archived copy (GCC?), which may or
> may not preserve any BCC field, I don't know. 

D'oh.  Of course you're right.  Moreover, I just checked with another
mail programm on the server of the address used in the Bcc: header line,
and the emails I sent are there.  I'm closing this bug.  Sorry for the
false alarm, and for the stupidity. (Maybe I can blame it on my current
bout of sinusitis...)

Steve Berman

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