From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:53:34 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#10688 <10688@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#10688 <10688@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode Reply-To: bug#10688 <10688@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 03:53:34 +0000 retitle 10688 The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of per= l-mode reassign 10688 emacs submitter 10688 joe higton severity 10688 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 01 11:55:51 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2012 16:55:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49402 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsdTK-0003hN-Ch for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:55:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:40889) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsbOv-0000LG-T4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:43:11 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsbOR-0006ab-5v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:42:43 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:60978) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsbOR-0006aX-4R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:42:39 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39314) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsbOM-0000bO-Ni for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:42:39 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsbOI-0006Z9-PT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:42:34 -0500 Received: from mail-gx0-f169.google.com ([209.85.161.169]:44985) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsbOI-0006Yy-Mz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:42:30 -0500 Received: by ggnu2 with SMTP id u2so749609ggn.0 for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 06:42:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=8AAIFEKK0hwHCnrAoKLW7qGKgOgP+EQSvchA/a7Dpws=; b=SUmQW/W2olOIcjh+8+svYFAwplxHiXEd6c2IZA4Kau0AaFcqLknln83h5yt8JJkRql C+GRYzE7fFxRGkFzyV40s7brOM++B1CDWvGD0ENZvAsAPLBLJBriUgv9kgWOi0ITXjms gmQnIs5IGwURwSj5nCOHfZbKo5OrwyTVfXujc= Received: by 10.182.76.135 with SMTP id k7mr39520075obw.62.1328107349235; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 06:42:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.176.38 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Feb 2012 06:42:09 -0800 (PST) From: joe higton Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:42:09 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:55:49 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) Hi, Essentially "cperl-mode" has long surpassed "perl-mode" within the Perl community. The fact that perl-mode is the default is a barrier to encouraging emacs use within the Perl community. I was informed that I should post this as a bug here after I made the following enquiry to the emacs developer mailing list: "As an emacs evangelist in the Perl community I like to give peopleadvise on how to get started using emacs for Perl development.Unfortunately step 1 is to tell them that whilst the standard emacsperl-mode isn't very good, it can be easily be swapped for the vastlysuperior cperl-mode via a quick modification to their .emacsfile... Getting them start hacking around in their configuration filesisn't always the best start for people who are trying emacs for thefirst time. After a recent debate on the Perl subreddit I thought I'd come and atleast ask the question: What are the chances of changing the defaultemacs mode for Perl to cperl-mode? I realise that changing such thingsfrom underneath users is probably something which you don't undertakelightly, but cperl-mode seems to be mature and also the establishedfavourite with developers, so I'd say there is a strong case for this." If this was the wrong follow-up course of action I apologise. Thanks, Joe From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 02 08:26:08 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Feb 2012 13:26:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50144 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rswfq-0004U6-WA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:26:06 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:49324 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rswfn-0004Th-Ek for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:26:01 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RswfL-0002iN-Hp; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:25:31 -0500 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:25:31 -0500 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: joe higton In-reply-to: (message from joe higton on Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:42:09 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode References: X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) The reason I did not make cperl mode the default, years ago, was that some users preferred the older perl mode. They thought cperl had some drawbacks. And the author of cperl mode was unwilling to fix them. I don't recall what those drawbacks were -- I never used Perl -- and I don't know if this is still true. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 02 09:00:37 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Feb 2012 14:00:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsxDH-0005KM-6W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 09:00:37 -0500 Received: from mail-tul01m020-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172]:37413) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsxDD-0005KA-Qm for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 09:00:33 -0500 Received: by obbwd15 with SMTP id wd15so2827026obb.3 for <10688@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 05:59:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=XYobMWydlVl1pf6T9qutEyOiP+mibjKJRm9BeU4EF2o=; b=hKVjj4ZYzSxzx1N0Xju/czNbUGJ3Gll9KcFDtfbycA054/nfr3YH6RX8+2/kfbh2Cj +gqYHVL5geJf/3mg8gFYQRRw8x3awW0PCMZZzGl7ZwTEziqXp/holb9Xq9HPONwt6ErX Tf4D9//QYJEB8o1pRiejZnQ1HDScdlpTT7rjc= Received: by 10.182.222.102 with SMTP id ql6mr2738020obc.2.1328191199235; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 05:59:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.176.38 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Feb 2012 05:59:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: joe higton Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:59:39 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On 2 February 2012 13:25, Richard Stallman wrote: > I don't recall what those drawbacks were -- I never used Perl -- and I > don't know if this is still true. Although this is far from a scientific survey, the discussion which lead to this bug (which took place on the perl reddit group) seemed to show that most people now use cperl-mode over perl-mode. And there was some discussion of the fact that the default of perl-mode was a barrier to new users getting the best experience. I could attempt to post in Perl spaces and see if anyone knows what the shortcomings of cperl-mode might be. Perhaps there will be some people who remember the orignal concerns were, and whether they were ever addressed. Thanks, Joe. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 04 11:10:57 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Feb 2012 16:10:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54429 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RtiCW-00039X-HS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:10:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:46915) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RtiCU-00039L-1w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:10:55 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RtiBj-00065M-MD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:10:09 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:57530) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RtiBj-00065F-JN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:10:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:46999) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RtiBh-0003Jb-Ly for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:10:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RtiBb-000606-FR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:10:05 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:38433) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RtiBb-0005zU-AO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:09:59 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RtiBW-0004Up-Rp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 17:09:54 +0100 Received: from c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net ([76.28.40.19]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 17:09:54 +0100 Received: from tzz by c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 17:09:54 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Ted Zlatanov Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:09:44 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Lines: 30 Message-ID: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.130002 (Ma Gnus v0.2) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:pryDJ7UY6b3rZUIn//PBf2aVZdI= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:59:39 +0000 joe higton wrote: jh> On 2 February 2012 13:25, Richard Stallman wrote: >> I don't recall what those drawbacks were -- I never used Perl -- and I >> don't know if this is still true. jh> Although this is far from a scientific survey, the discussion which lead to jh> this bug (which took place on the perl reddit group) seemed to show that jh> most people now use cperl-mode over perl-mode. And there was some jh> discussion of the fact that the default of perl-mode was a barrier to new jh> users getting the best experience. jh> I could attempt to post in Perl spaces and see if anyone knows what jh> the shortcomings of cperl-mode might be. Perhaps there will be some jh> people who remember the orignal concerns were, and whether they were jh> ever addressed. I've been using cperl-mode for a while, and it has many enhancements over perl-mode. Ilya's version has diverged from the cperl-mode in GNU Emacs, though, and I believe Ilya's version has a slight edge. I brought that up: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/115635/focus=115643 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help/67570/focus=67653 Ilya has not followed up on emacs-devel and neither side seems interested in an ongoing synchronization. Ted From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 06 09:01:07 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2012 14:01:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56524 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RuP7x-0003IS-5o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:01:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39221) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RuP7t-0003Hx-Ev for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:01:02 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuP6u-0004uT-QK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:00:06 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:60860) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuP6u-0004uP-Ov for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:00:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:52526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuP6p-0005ok-96 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:00:00 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuP6j-0004tJ-AD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:59:55 -0500 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:34452) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuP6j-0004t7-7p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:59:49 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAIHcL09MCqD0/2dsb2JhbABDrziBBoFyAQEEAVYoCws0EhQYDYgzuSiMDhICAgMGAgQCAQQCAgwGCgMBhB0BBAQYAiGDHASIRJsDhFo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,370,1325480400"; d="scan'208";a="161429959" Received: from 76-10-160-244.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.160.244]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 06 Feb 2012 08:59:47 -0500 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 8008A58BE3; Mon, 6 Feb 2012 08:59:47 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode Message-ID: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:59:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:09:44 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) > I've been using cperl-mode for a while, and it has many enhancements > over perl-mode. Ilya's version has diverged from the cperl-mode in GNU > Emacs, though, and I believe Ilya's version has a slight edge. We've sync'd Ilya's cperl-mode in the past. If it needs to be updated, it can be sync'd again (AFAIK, the two cperl-mode versions have slightly diverged, indeed, but not that much: we try to keep our local changes small). BTW, this "problematic maintainership" is one hurdle to making cperl-mode the default Perl mode, indeed. That's one of the reasons why I've invested some time to improve perl-mode (even tho I don't use it myself). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 06:03:47 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 10:03:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60720 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRKHy-0006o8-Sx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:03:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51089) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRKHv-0006nv-HP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:03:44 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRKFm-0002Bb-9c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:01:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,URI_HEX autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:34983) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRKFm-0002BX-6d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:01:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44555) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRKFg-00055S-F7 for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:01:30 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRKFa-0002A1-Iz for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:01:24 -0400 Received: from sam.nabble.com ([216.139.236.26]:39461) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRKFa-00029x-ET for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:01:18 -0400 Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRKFZ-0004N8-LY for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:01:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: draxil To: Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) After posting to here I posted questions regarding this to comp.lang.perl.misc and comp.emacs . I got very little response, apart from an anecdotal report that the maintainer was stuck on emacs 18 and refused to update his code. I would say that my personal experience, and that of the people in the more active perl community spaces which I have consulted, the stock version of cperl-mode included in the emacs distribution is still far superior to the default perl-mode. -- View this message in context: http://emacs.1067599.n5.nabble.com/bug-10688-The-default-mode-for-Perl-should-be-cperl-mode-instead-of-perl-mode-tp47588p268030.html Sent from the Emacs - Bugs mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 08:36:18 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 12:36:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60838 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRMfZ-00034A-LN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:36:18 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:57679) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRMfY-00033u-3Y for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:36:16 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAG6Zu0/O+LFW/2dsb2JhbABEtBGBCIIVAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kJ4d1BboJkEQDozOBWIMF X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="202810867" Received: from 206-248-177-86.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.177.86]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 25 Oct 2012 08:34:07 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id F3D44593D3; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:34:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: draxil Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode Message-ID: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:34:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> (draxil@gmail.com's message of "Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:01:17 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) > I would say that my personal experience, and that of the people in the more > active perl community spaces which I have consulted, the stock version of > cperl-mode included in the emacs distribution is still far superior to the > default perl-mode. The main problem is that the cperl-mode code's maintainership has some problems (poor communication and some disagreements between Ilya and the Emacs team). Also, missing from your request is concrete reasons, other than "it seems to be more popular". Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 11:26:09 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 15:26:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33370 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPJx-00079d-BN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:26:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52260) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPJu-00079V-QP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:26:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPHm-00071I-TS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:24:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,URI_HEX autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35139) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPHm-00071E-Q8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:23:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44925) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPHh-0006ym-43 for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:23:54 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPHb-0006sd-GT for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:23:49 -0400 Received: from sam.nabble.com ([216.139.236.26]:57923) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPHb-0006re-BS for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:23:43 -0400 Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPHa-000669-T5 for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:23:42 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:23:42 -0700 (PDT) From: draxil To: Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <1351178622882-268048.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Well the main problem is, we as emacs favouring perl people, want to be able to say with confidence "use emacs for Perl, it's really good" and not "use emacs for Perl, it's really good! But first you need to make these changes to your .emacs file". Obviously those of us in the know are fine, but we're trying to improve the experience for others. If that's not a good enough reason to upset the apple cart I will happily crawl back under my rock. It's just a shame not to be able to evangelise on a level playing field with advocates for other editing solutions. -- View this message in context: http://emacs.1067599.n5.nabble.com/bug-10688-The-default-mode-for-Perl-should-be-cperl-mode-instead-of-perl-mode-tp47588p268048.html Sent from the Emacs - Bugs mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 11:29:48 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 15:29:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33374 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPNT-0007EP-Rn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:29:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPNR-0007EI-DI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:29:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPLL-0008US-Pg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:27:41 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,URI_HEX autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:41151) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPLL-0008UG-1v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:27:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41600) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPLG-0002Nz-Rw for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:27:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPLB-0008RB-8Z for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:27:30 -0400 Received: from sam.nabble.com ([216.139.236.26]:58176) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPLB-0008R3-3y for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:27:25 -0400 Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPLA-0006MB-GX for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:27:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:27:24 -0700 (PDT) From: draxil To: Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <1351178844503-268051.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <1351178622882-268048.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178622882-268048.post@n5.nabble.com> Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Oh, I see that maybe you were asking more specifically about the reasons for cperl-mode being a better replacement? Last time I used perl-mode *was* a long time ago, but it had broken syntax highlighting and things like indentation couldn't take account of perl syntax very well. Perhaps I should try and look at the latest perl mode for a fair comparison, and or to remember what else I hated and whether any of it is still true. -- View this message in context: http://emacs.1067599.n5.nabble.com/bug-10688-The-default-mode-for-Perl-should-be-cperl-mode-instead-of-perl-mode-tp47588p268051.html Sent from the Emacs - Bugs mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 12:04:50 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 16:04:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33435 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPvN-0000T9-B6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:04:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:50662) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPvK-0000T1-Av for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:04:47 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRPtI-0006Qo-Qh; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:02:40 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: draxil Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178622882-268048.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178844503-268051.post@n5.nabble.com> X-Spook: Defcon ammunition Agfa subversive NASA Armani fraud X-Ran: QYxN)QY9+%x4]#.^eE.&pF5K (draxil@gmail.com's message of "Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:27:24 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <7tobjq1qvz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) draxil wrote: > Last time I used perl-mode *was* a long time ago, but it had broken syntax > highlighting and things like indentation couldn't take account of perl > syntax very well. This is all very vague. >From a maintenance point of view, cperl-mode.el is 9 times longer than perl-mode.el. You may say "it's 9 times better", but to me it seems overly complicated. This, plus the fact that we effectively are not allowed to ever simplify away any of the huge amount of compatibility cruft for ancient Emacs versions (Emacs 19!) that it contains, makes it much less appealing as a default from that viewpoint. I think you are much more likely to get a response by filing specific bug reports about areas where perl-mode.el is lacking. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 12:19:43 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 16:19:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33443 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRQ9n-0000oQ-6f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:19:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:51143) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRQ9k-0000oG-Os for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:19:41 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRQ7j-0002PV-Cy; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:17:35 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> X-Spook: Osama 2600 Magazine Chobetsu bluebird wire transfer DRM X-Ran: qO\!mh~9)`adGJp~-%Tq4V+,S7kZ_#h5P^?G-elK]V^\7pat@7%2[HhiVpST.iK"4JvIS{ X-Hue: green X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:17:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:34:06 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org, draxil X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) Stefan Monnier wrote: > The main problem is that the cperl-mode code's maintainership has some > problems (poor communication and some disagreements between Ilya and the > Emacs team). Note that there does not seem to have been an upstream release for ~ 4+ years, AFAICS. The traditional upstream location is 403 today, but exists in search engines caches. A braver man than I has already forked it some years ago; https://github.com/jrockway/cperl-mode (I'm not volunteering to do anything! :) ) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 14:27:29 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 18:27:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33622 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRS9Q-0004cz-Sq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:27:29 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:45492) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRS9N-0004cn-60 for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:27:26 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q9PIPK5o013482; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:25:20 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 07EB9B4278; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:25:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: draxil Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode Message-ID: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178622882-268048.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178844503-268051.post@n5.nabble.com> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:25:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1351178844503-268051.post@n5.nabble.com> (draxil@gmail.com's message of "Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:27:24 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4382=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4382> : streams <845336> : uri <1252289> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) > Last time I used perl-mode *was* a long time ago, but it had broken syntax > highlighting and things like indentation couldn't take account of perl > syntax very well. Syntax highlighting has been improved significantly. It's not as gaudy as cperl-mode, but in terms of not-getting-confused it's not too far from cperl-mode, in my experience. Of course, I'm biased, since I wrote all that perl-mode syntax-highlighting code. > Perhaps I should try and look at the latest perl mode for a fair comparison, > and or to remember what else I hated and whether any of it is still true. I don't have much time to devote to it, but I generally try to fix bugs in perl-mode (especially syntax-highlighting and indentation ones), and I'm willing to try to retrofit specific cperl-mode features into it. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 14:27:41 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 18:27:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33625 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRS9c-0004dR-8I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:27:40 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:42007) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRS9a-0004dJ-2y for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:27:38 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q9PIPWZk014046; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:25:33 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id E05EAB4278; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:25:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode Message-ID: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:25:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:17:35 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4382=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4382> : streams <845336> : uri <1252289> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org, draxil , Jonathan Rockway X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) >> The main problem is that the cperl-mode code's maintainership has some >> problems (poor communication and some disagreements between Ilya and the >> Emacs team). > Note that there does not seem to have been an upstream release for ~ 4+ > years, AFAICS. The traditional upstream location is 403 today, but > exists in search engines caches. > A braver man than I has already forked it some years ago; > https://github.com/jrockway/cperl-mode Let me put it some other way: If/when someone is willing and able to take over maintenance of cperl-mode (starting with cleaning up the Emacs-19-style-code-cruft), then I might consider switching the default to cperl-mode. But it might be easier to start from perl-mode and add cperl-mode chunks to it. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 15:05:27 2012 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 19:05:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33655 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRSkB-0005WL-A6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:05:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55871) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRSk8-0005WE-Rv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:05:25 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRSi6-0000Rd-Uu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:03:20 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,URI_HEX autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:32782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRSi6-0000RT-RZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:03:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35974) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRSi5-0007Ei-Kd for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:03:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRShx-0000PM-Rn for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:03:17 -0400 Received: from sam.nabble.com ([216.139.236.26]:42746) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRShx-0000PI-Mm for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:03:09 -0400 Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRShw-00075N-Uv for Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:03:08 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:03:08 -0700 (PDT) From: draxil To: Bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <1351191788952-268070.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Thanks, that sounds very reasonable. I'll try and get myself some guinea pig time working with perl-mode and see if I can persuade others to do the same. Then we can provide more specific & constrictive feedback on perl-mode in it's current guise. -- View this message in context: http://emacs.1067599.n5.nabble.com/bug-10688-The-default-mode-for-Perl-should-be-cperl-mode-instead-of-perl-mode-tp47588p268070.html Sent from the Emacs - Bugs mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 15:43:32 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 19:43:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33689 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRTL1-0006Np-Jm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:43:31 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:54796) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRTKz-0006Nh-BR for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:43:30 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRTIx-0007sA-H6; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:41:23 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> X-Spook: COSCO strategic 2600 Magazine Cocaine analyzer PGP Merlin X-Ran: xA8wf~*c`@3:?A3_5wvQN*'C%O'osH*-@oYq_TCNZ^f'aaX*s0; X-Hue: yellow X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:41:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:25:32 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.7 (-----) Is cperl-mode.el in Emacs still not to be modified? If someone reports a bug in cperl-mode can it be fixed without deferring to upstream? (I have no interest in modifying it, but in the past you've basically said not to change it, IIUC.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 17:06:41 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2012 21:06:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33761 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRUdU-0000jt-SY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:06:41 -0400 Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:33776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRUdS-0000jm-TU for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:06:39 -0400 Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q9PL4Wsu009097; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:04:32 -0400 Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 2C1C3B4278; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:04:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode Message-ID: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:04:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:41:23 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4382=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.2.0.9309 : core <4382> : streams <845420> : uri <1252402> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) > Is cperl-mode.el in Emacs still not to be modified? Yes. > If someone reports a bug in cperl-mode can it be fixed without deferring > to upstream? Depends on the specific bug. > (I have no interest in modifying it, but in the past you've basically > said not to change it, IIUC). That hasn't changed. And it won't change until either our cperl-mode is considered the upstream, or until there's a good two-way sync going on between the upstream and our version. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 25 21:35:56 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2012 01:35:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33913 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRYq3-0007d7-RT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:35:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:60347) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TRYq1-0007d0-KM for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:35:54 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TRYny-0000vN-ON; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:33:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:33:46 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: draxil In-reply-to: <1351178844503-268051.post@n5.nabble.com> (message from draxil on Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:27:24 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178622882-268048.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178844503-268051.post@n5.nabble.com> X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) ISTR that I polled the users once about whether to make CPerl mode the default for Perl programs, but they were not in favor of the change. Of course, things may be different now. But this is the sort of thing it is good to poll the users about. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 29 04:02:17 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2012 08:02:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37337 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TSkIb-0007fY-5C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 04:02:17 -0400 Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com ([209.85.223.172]:64578) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TSjm4-0006r5-NM for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 03:28:42 -0400 Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 9so6284840iec.3 for <10688@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:26:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jrock.us; s=google; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0qH9rLQ81Tv70EuInYRK8CQ38oZ+dVXNcUi9ue3/na0=; b=Thrz54toG89m+LAYlOFa7dNeQIqolfKY+gwwTB5Uup418ZDABUcNyPXfmeT72KQVZw eascasfHr+fiQ+PnRek14QbaHnBtmpgKI3TSWCXP3ePI2GvH54RweX0MqPyH03wwsdeu sNh+dF80Y+DFwXagauMM5Tn9SWKlIa2JXIB1g= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=0qH9rLQ81Tv70EuInYRK8CQ38oZ+dVXNcUi9ue3/na0=; b=YL8qs3m4ZsXn2Xf4vejDxrqRFu5auWxFhknIxYLBfkZmzjCHGEo1vGZwR35EfybOhN nNdPvp6MNQ0ezCHuAGKtKwyo/bhBKnLl41QLs9qWcPHjdNDlSyDDql27xSmG3x/7p0g0 XFEtLnf2fYdap7qPo3VQFm1tLDaJCDwGM+7P2kpUAVZDZlQCjH/YghAHOfxg6PRCVECb 9gySCFjm0a5WPh+mhIMObF6ep8O2O5gZw1StY4+NczBjsBaQ3AA0HtjyJBlwlFLf0a4d 8/L65vfCsTWRDmeMC/WdBrnIBLBkptzGStpaArfpzNnjt8iXbdQIV477yN2q3OjluZuC 3DYg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.158.201 with SMTP id ww9mr8768257igb.22.1351495575295; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.48.236 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:26:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [74.72.72.226] In-Reply-To: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 03:26:15 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode From: Jonathan Rockway To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae934063dae55a704cd2d954f X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQltYz4dQTl/CkgwagpSikbjQX4ntwEhRdu6ADOdyCy2ELaA3DMaM5B8GuLCTqWmd7Wu5ujW X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 04:02:15 -0400 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , draxil X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) --14dae934063dae55a704cd2d954f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cleaning up the cruft sounds like a good idea. I will play around with that in the next few days and let you know how it goes. (I'm somewhat surprised that anyone uses perl-mode; cperl-mode is ... interesting code-wise, but it does work really, really well.) On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> The main problem is that the cperl-mode code's maintainership has some > >> problems (poor communication and some disagreements between Ilya and the > >> Emacs team). > > Note that there does not seem to have been an upstream release for ~ 4+ > > years, AFAICS. The traditional upstream location is 403 today, but > > exists in search engines caches. > > A braver man than I has already forked it some years ago; > > https://github.com/jrockway/cperl-mode > > Let me put it some other way: > > If/when someone is willing and able to take over maintenance of > cperl-mode (starting with cleaning up the Emacs-19-style-code-cruft), > then I might consider switching the default to cperl-mode. > > But it might be easier to start from perl-mode and add cperl-mode chunks > to it. > > > Stefan > --14dae934063dae55a704cd2d954f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cleaning up the cruft sounds like a good idea. =A0I will play around with t= hat in the next few days and let you know how it goes.

(= I'm somewhat surprised that anyone uses perl-mode; cperl-mode is ... in= teresting code-wise, but it does work really, really well.)

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Stefan Monn= ier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> The main problem is that the cperl-mode code's maintainership = has some
>> problems (poor communication and some disagreements between Ilya a= nd the
>> Emacs team).
> Note that there does not seem to have been an upstream release for ~ 4= +
> years, AFAICS. =A0The traditional upstream location is 403 today, but<= br> > exists in search engines caches.
> A braver man than I has already forked it some years ago;
> h= ttps://github.com/jrockway/cperl-mode

Let me put it some other way:

If/when someone is willing and able to take over maintenance of
cperl-mode (starting with cleaning up the Emacs-19-style-code-cruft),
then I might consider switching the default to cperl-mode.

But it might be easier to start from perl-mode and add cperl-mode chunks to it.


=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Stefan

--14dae934063dae55a704cd2d954f-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 29 09:00:51 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2012 13:00:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37629 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TSoxX-00021U-8j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:00:51 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:54127) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TSoxV-00021O-Vg for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:00:50 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAG6Zu0/O+LET/2dsb2JhbABEtBGBCIIWAQVWIxALDiYSFBgNJIghugmQRAOjM4FYgwU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,637,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="203059629" Received: from 206-248-177-19.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([206.248.177.19]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 29 Oct 2012 08:58:23 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B744C59415; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:58:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Jonathan Rockway Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode Message-ID: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:58:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Jonathan Rockway's message of "Mon, 29 Oct 2012 03:26:15 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris , draxil X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) > (I'm somewhat surprised that anyone uses perl-mode; cperl-mode is ... > interesting code-wise, but it does work really, really well.) perl-mode is the default, so you can expect many people to use it. Also, I stick to perl-mode (for the few times I use Perl) because it is the default (dog-fooding and things like that). Also the perl-mode was more amenable to experimentation (I used it as a play ground for the fancier syntactic fontification, e.g. it was a large part of the motivation for font-lock-syntactic-face-function). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 29 18:50:17 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2012 22:50:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38608 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TSy9x-0008GD-AD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:50:17 -0400 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.186]:51881) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TSy9t-0008G4-GT for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:50:15 -0400 Received: from theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org (ip-109-46-246-15.web.vodafone.de [109.46.246.15]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MR9Bb-1TpLYx3jv5-00U5yH; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 23:47:43 +0100 Received: by theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 234E0401DB; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:37:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA0A7A009; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:37:56 +0100 (CET) From: Stefan Merten To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode In-reply-to: References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178622882-268048.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178844503-268051.post@n5.nabble.com> Comments: In-reply-to Richard Stallman message dated "Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:33:46 -0400." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:37:56 +0100 Message-ID: <4545.1351499876@theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org> X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:XyIPhLTgm9v2rAoI+K6upNXKmm6z2MntqVqMgJdrIhD REUlwUsF69EL2yqUdQMIfSUCRB4Qth2quKeWeuACVCpYhHuPsL 1czXu092B3icm0fcFkjY8z7+LxEZOvcwvdMl/nBgx2AW5qWmpQ LUXf7Gt6DpwHIpKNYG1JEtmA1VIOLwzUiFxbC5kvEYZpGpUfdm ECOn0xaJ2Dy7XbTb73IKmcyX9xcGhyEPEzhLMW98jLlTnTmlch 7597iE7ecLgXlHpNljyLyGFvMGbkHI7YLxU40uD7SsP2LD6TP4 9XFrFK5UkGRUGKxP/8FoDj7brodpAlAd4nOi6nXPJflV1kTeC5 IDzCtC25qqiZxcjjtV2Zk97s7X8oXbjmV/SDKu/FBaLCu0Qano 0ZQkeBAQeMDk44jYVRWAwbwnuCtRKn16uk= X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org, draxil X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3 days ago Richard Stallman wrote: > Of course, things may be different now. But this is the sort of thing > it is good to poll the users about. From=20my `.emacs`: (defalias 'perl-mode 'cperl-mode) So: +1 for using `cperl-mode' as the default. Gr=FC=DFe Stefan --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUI5AYgnTZgC3zSk5AQI1FgP/c0s1sXmqLLkpSeboA8IrurIU6C0AYC22 Szp7h0KORrYbL8rqAUFPy0waD4XTRcsRITyVBkQFyDhRAC+VoBYFhUXCk4DO55O4 Tmo/OC3VKKuDQpF7Kw7DiiT8Dmy230bEKIG+YIu8x+GNOfgumF6MEKGc8QxsiUHD 0kuX6hJ1HyU= =lt1g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 29 22:00:01 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2012 02:00:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38732 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TT17Y-0006mf-Eg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:00:01 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:34493) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TT17U-0006mW-Rn for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 21:59:57 -0400 Received: by mail-pb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id ro8so4522760pbb.3 for <10688@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:57:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=ZFN1K2JI43xXLRjgsedF7oGKIj4o1nZ+1DNJALoj5uA=; b=m/oeldwH2G3y5lCdb3cxW1lsLC5fWdLNwiP1IX/pmsrt4waGP3FjbvjtzpQ6jpAmqM Snna1mMEqfclY0pFQz7lDKo2v1MMDoWpcntppYVmJQGa1gFHMZWgenIVjT4C8UY9T9zD 3VHOJy9dqVLy6U2LQ+7pXZt8RiWe50Tp8BS8FI6t1nBNmnDhBie+1VYrEpSOwKjvEhcf /es7jlCc90gNJmCEM0NWB/HFhqPgCU//hjCiOpUeWwDt+Yf/pnH3fhbp+mBltIrDDam3 TFLV/qrmqmsDEcHwdMKv+ykn1jKfqsrf6kq34ZswyUgkgAyT3nYNBz4ngP60lGkJOW1z AABw== Received: by 10.68.253.167 with SMTP id ab7mr29295950pbd.138.1351562246794; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ulysses ([155.69.16.255]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gu5sm3503931pbc.10.2012.10.29.18.57.23 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:57:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Chong Yidong To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:57:19 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:58:22 -0400") Message-ID: <87sj8wn2m8.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org, draxil , Jonathan Rockway X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > If/when someone is willing and able to take over maintenance of > cperl-mode (starting with cleaning up the Emacs-19-style-code-cruft), > then I might consider switching the default to cperl-mode. That answers the question that was brought up by OP, so I'm closing the bug. Any further discussion should be moved to emacs-devel. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 29 22:00:07 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2012 02:00:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38736 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TT17f-0006nm-5b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:00:07 -0400 Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44]:34493) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TT17e-0006mW-6A for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:00:06 -0400 Received: by mail-pb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id ro8so4522760pbb.3 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:57:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=QWtX7+rVRcWGwwUsfQZWLvfECoM0LzQU9LJ87VQkuD8=; b=FBrenjoHspuxpZUIVHCPePqUmIn4Jw8sYQWfATQ34ym5PkrIlPHmcnyzQBIUTZnWOh twwmyOFvNm3TaeHtsJNHXGz5NoTf2qrD3wyacCX8EnNT0a6f2T7MCxkT6eCAakV9Yead kvXyH2jYHrY/gJkNpVVtXGKH6ANBkBuPQZkcf2LHe1uosGRW+Pu/MVZA0gPTYb3QWS7M z/2zYqkNsRsxBLfBi6tiyRZK8VbqMpaP2vb1lHwCU1jETmO8xRb7jpZ2yJCTsOzcOc3Q zcaAZR+thdtxwmeJDxKYR+bwXbdnv4mUToYyp7t+Y9SW4P9rpUjfUwRWCVZX6so6eva8 u/QQ== Received: by 10.68.245.37 with SMTP id xl5mr16940677pbc.120.1351562257039; Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ulysses ([155.69.16.255]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b6sm6844288pav.33.2012.10.29.18.57.34 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:57:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 10688 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:57:31 +0800 Message-ID: <87625s90xg.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) close 10688 thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 30 16:37:21 2012 Received: (at 10688) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2012 20:37:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40184 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TTIYr-0001Z3-9f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:37:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:32927) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TTIYp-0001Yw-Mq for 10688@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:37:20 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TTIWL-0007vE-Ht; Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:34:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:34:45 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Merten In-reply-to: <4545.1351499876@theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org> (message from Stefan Merten on Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:37:56 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#10688: The default mode for Perl should be cperl-mode instead of perl-mode References: <8762fmbmwn.fsf@lifelogs.com> <1351159277417-268030.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178622882-268048.post@n5.nabble.com> <1351178844503-268051.post@n5.nabble.com> <4545.1351499876@theowa.merten-home.homelinux.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10688 Cc: 10688@debbugs.gnu.org, draxil@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) Polling the users of Emacs is something bigger than asking a question on this list. We need to aim to reach a broader range of Emacs users. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:53:34 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator