From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:12:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 10454@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.132604992122496 (code B ref -1); Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:12:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2012 19:12:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjy9v-0005qm-U9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:12:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:35276) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3c-0008GS-7d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:37:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3O-0007xM-GE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:47 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:51656) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3O-0007xH-Ej for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:37543) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3N-0003C4-Nq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3M-0007x3-FZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:45 -0500 Received: from mail-wi0-f169.google.com ([209.85.212.169]:51266) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3L-0007wp-Sw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:44 -0500 Received: by wibhq12 with SMTP id hq12so2888526wib.0 for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 03:36:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date :message-id:to:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=zkj06jk5Slw81AhmiHBe38iz2ExbpxygwlYWpsDCX6Y=; b=IdyrzQmwizoNrLYjXdCTuuPJABoeU92HVb5p+nYOijhpg+QrI9NPqxvDlWHIJt1qlX VxcLhyg1uElO7twgcgUbaZsbMA1+ZBGPYXS/pAw3UF1JInfUjEUAuro3S6vgMNb2ydl0 hfLurk9nUMHxkK5yELuoQJ43Cn4Gig6E7jxOQ= Received: by 10.180.20.69 with SMTP id l5mr7147776wie.19.1326022602510; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 03:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (94-194-137-39.zone8.bethere.co.uk. [94.194.137.39]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g11sm41023252wbo.6.2012.01.08.03.36.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 08 Jan 2012 03:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:36:42 +0000 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:11:58 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) If I have ido-mode enabled, the output of `C-h k C-x C-f' is: > C-x C-f runs the command ido-find-file, which is an interactive > compiled Lisp function in `ido.el'. But if I'm just learning Emacs and I do `C-h ? k C-x C-f', the output is = for (non-ido) find-file: > C-x C-f runs the command find-file, which is an interactive compiled > Lisp function in `files.el'. I'm not sure what causes this. `help-for-help' in `help.el' seems to use = the same `help-map' that binds `C-h k' to `describe-key'; I couldn't = understand the `make-help-screen' macro so that's as far as I got with = my investigation. I reproduced this on Emacs 23.3 and a 2012-01-08 nightly build of = 24.0.92.1 (revno: 106821). Recipe starting from `emacs -Q': M-: (ido-mode t) C-h k C-x C-f C-h ? k C-x C-f Thanks, Dave. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: martin rudalics Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Cc: 10454@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10454-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10454.132613316823448 (code B ref 10454); Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:20:01 +0000 Received: (at 10454) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jan 2012 18:19:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51244 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RkJod-000668-Se for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2012 13:19:28 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.23]:59280) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RkJob-00065v-I3 for 10454@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2012 13:19:27 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Jan 2012 18:19:03 -0000 Received: from 62-47-41-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.41.83]) [62.47.41.83] by mail.gmx.net (mp067) with SMTP; 09 Jan 2012 19:19:03 +0100 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+ahdZgorGafXV9jEZmMVSFC2moHcS9JKevn9Qfh9 elYaoNxrHn7gUY Message-ID: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:19:01 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > If I have ido-mode enabled, the output of `C-h k C-x C-f' is: > >> C-x C-f runs the command ido-find-file, which is an interactive >> compiled Lisp function in `ido.el'. > > > But if I'm just learning Emacs and I do `C-h ? k C-x C-f', the output is for (non-ido) find-file: > >> C-x C-f runs the command find-file, which is an interactive compiled >> Lisp function in `files.el'. FWIW this is due to `make-help-screen' binding `minor-mode-map-alist' to nil. Applying the patch below seems to fix it, but maybe someone more knowledgeable has a better solution. (If you want to try the patch, make sure to recompile help.el after compiling help-macro.el). martin *** lisp/help-macro.el 2011-01-25 04:08:28 +0000 --- lisp/help-macro.el 2012-01-09 18:05:39 +0000 *************** *** 186,192 **** (setq config nil)) ;; `defn' must make sure that its frame is ;; selected, so we won't iconify it below. ! (call-interactively defn) (when new-frame ;; Do not iconify the selected frame. (unless (eq new-frame (selected-frame)) --- 186,193 ---- (setq config nil)) ;; `defn' must make sure that its frame is ;; selected, so we won't iconify it below. ! (let ((minor-mode-map-alist new-minor-mode-map-alist)) ! (call-interactively defn)) (when new-frame ;; Do not iconify the selected frame. (unless (eq new-frame (selected-frame)) From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:14:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: martin rudalics Cc: 10454@debbugs.gnu.org, David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Received: via spool by 10454-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10454.13268276044807 (code B ref 10454); Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:14:01 +0000 Received: (at 10454) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jan 2012 19:13:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33821 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnETD-0001FT-Od for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:13:23 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:34835) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnETB-0001FM-D4 for 10454@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:13:21 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RnESA-00009I-4R; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:12:18 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> X-Spook: ISEC genetic eavesdropping Majic domestic disruption X-Ran: C[j\C[RKBxzETd{8$@@;cq0w_:>~N,:i7.(:?"H!jcy|HsL!h:VZ_DV2`KX$RcUbr/P@F9 X-Hue: cyan X-Attribution: GM Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:12:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:19:01 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) martin rudalics wrote: > FWIW this is due to `make-help-screen' binding `minor-mode-map-alist' to > nil. Applying the patch below seems to fix it, but maybe someone more > knowledgeable has a better solution. I'm no more knowledgeable, but it must be something to do with minor-mode-map-alist, so FWIW if your solution makes it work I suggest installing it and closing this. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: martin rudalics Cc: 10454@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10454-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10454.132696128831138 (code B ref 10454); Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 10454) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2012 08:21:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35068 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnnFQ-00086A-KJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 03:21:28 -0500 Received: from mail-ww0-f46.google.com ([74.125.82.46]:39587) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnnFP-000864-5r for 10454@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 03:21:28 -0500 Received: by wgbdt14 with SMTP id dt14so4873452wgb.15 for <10454@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 00:20:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=BflrUuBfDt2+JvoRpwln4jShFoc/UlvwxZPdHHGs9uI=; b=pS3TzEMGhAqI33gnpTEIF8oBvCWmn66CxfqmR8y4tOa+disLYiyw8Lge8CO+9ATXa/ /P4oKYJanVi49OZZN2hCJ/7GIaTH2uvxJ8tL6wCc2EqsfyivMEo1L80WOYdfFjiG1Tuh RuXlosLzbQ3xD9HpccoZtbbsn4ZVCikymH4LY= Received: by 10.180.99.225 with SMTP id et1mr42393124wib.2.1326961216198; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 00:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (94-194-137-39.zone8.bethere.co.uk. [94.194.137.39]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fd1sm26950330wib.0.2012.01.19.00.20.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 19 Jan 2012 00:20:15 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= In-Reply-To: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:20:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) martin rudalics wrote: > (If you want to try the patch, make sure to recompile help.el > after compiling help-macro.el). The patch doesn't work for me -- am I doing something wrong? I'm finding "help.el.gz" by going `C-h k C-h k' and clicking on the `help.el' link in the help buffer. Then I open help-macro.el.gz in the same directory; apply the patch; then M-x byte-compile-file help-macro.el.gz M-x byte-compile-file help.el.gz and restart Emacs. Thanks! Dave. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: Andreas Schwab Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Cc: martin rudalics , 10454@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10454-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10454.132696182932124 (code B ref 10454); Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:31:02 +0000 Received: (at 10454) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2012 08:30:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnnO9-0008M5-IB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 03:30:29 -0500 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:33487) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnnO6-0008Lv-Bi for 10454@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 03:30:27 -0500 Received: from frontend1.mail.m-online.net (frontend1.mail.intern.m-online.net [192.168.8.180]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA91718000E0; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:29:14 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Info: n/MqjkgfeTll0MbztZcETGQm1hoEnQURwBB1ebkDw2Y= Received: from igel.home (ppp-93-104-141-164.dynamic.mnet-online.de [93.104.141.164]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0CFE61C00135; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:29:15 +0100 (CET) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 501) id 57A53CA29A; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:29:14 +0100 (CET) From: Andreas Schwab References: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> X-Yow: All of a sudden, I want to THROW OVER my promising ACTING CAREER, grow a LONG BLACK BEARD and wear a BASEBALL HAT!! ... Although I don't know WHY!! Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:29:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?="'s message of "Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:20:13 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) David R=C3=B6thlisberger writes: > Then I open help-macro.el.gz in the same directory; apply the > patch; then > M-x byte-compile-file help-macro.el.gz > M-x byte-compile-file help.el.gz You need to reload help-macro inbetween. Andreas. --=20 Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint =3D 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED= 5 "And now for something completely different." From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Andreas Schwab Cc: martin rudalics , 10454@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10454-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10454.13269641383613 (code B ref 10454); Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:09:01 +0000 Received: (at 10454) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2012 09:08:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35077 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnnzN-0000wB-GP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 04:08:58 -0500 Received: from mail-ww0-f46.google.com ([74.125.82.46]:44289) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnnzL-0000w4-8j for 10454@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 04:08:56 -0500 Received: by wgbdt14 with SMTP id dt14so4913050wgb.15 for <10454@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 01:07:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=RXc0/Lf61U8gKjukfivKur/cWPWQNsItG50vahHoz6Y=; b=kFLOxiZzKWaYuQHnO3AndWGW2incbI7ue6NZpmcFKESG5EmOWN8g9BSp97XP+m9iLg acm9/kJvE48ipFY5tHNuPBqoxty3fk5od+ds8hJc0b+pKi4qsOzYX4MUJvDonanC4nh6 S8hXyHtPEN3li0ugb24fC5YPPIDayNOuwTig0= Received: by 10.180.104.4 with SMTP id ga4mr29053393wib.17.1326964064123; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 01:07:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (94-194-137-39.zone8.bethere.co.uk. [94.194.137.39]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id eq5sm16382520wib.2.2012.01.19.01.07.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 19 Jan 2012 01:07:43 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:07:41 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <18C2AFAE-27B1-47B3-9D39-AEC2F9A97CC2@rothlis.net> References: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Andreas Schwab wrote: >> Then I open help-macro.el.gz in the same directory; apply the >> patch; then >> M-x byte-compile-file help-macro.el.gz >> M-x byte-compile-file help.el.gz >=20 > You need to reload help-macro inbetween. Good point. I have now tried that, as well as trying the following: * Deleting help.elc & help-macro.elc altogether, then restarting Emacs * M-x eval-buffer on help-macro.el.gz before & after byte-compiling it, = then M-x eval-buffer on help.el.gz before byte-compiling it, then = restarting Emacs. * M-x load-file help-macro.el.gz before & after byte-compiling it, then = M-x load-file help.el.gz before byte-compiling it, then restarting = Emacs. * Restarting Emacs after byte-compiling help-macro.el.gz, then = byte-compiling help.el.gz, then restarting Emacs. In all cases the patch still doesn't work for me. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Cc: Andreas Schwab , 10454@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10454-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10454.132699178422987 (code B ref 10454); Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 10454) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2012 16:49:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35608 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnvBI-0005yh-Ix for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:49:44 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:60350) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnvBF-0005yW-05 for 10454@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:49:42 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RnvA3-0001fi-Ha; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:48:27 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> <18C2AFAE-27B1-47B3-9D39-AEC2F9A97CC2@rothlis.net> X-Spook: Audiotel Baranyi Telex Defcon NORAD SEAL Team 6 benelux X-Ran: 7a$X)0:C$l%CnPGh{|44]TD/wRBH}3d%F`Xu9.C%88LkXpy~vxVe ("David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?="'s message of "Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:07:41 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) David R=C3=B6thlisberger wrote: > * Deleting help.elc & help-macro.elc altogether, then restarting Emacs > * M-x eval-buffer on help-macro.el.gz before & after byte-compiling it, t= hen M-x eval-buffer on help.el.gz before byte-compiling it, then restarting= Emacs. > * M-x load-file help-macro.el.gz before & after byte-compiling it, then M= -x load-file help.el.gz before byte-compiling it, then restarting Emacs. > * Restarting Emacs after byte-compiling help-macro.el.gz, then byte-compi= ling help.el.gz, then restarting Emacs. help.el is dumped into the Emacs image, so restarting Emacs defeats all your good work. You either need to rebuild Emacs, or (should work), explicitly load help-macro.el and then load help.el, then try it in the same Emacs session. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:10:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Glenn Morris Cc: martin rudalics , Andreas Schwab , 10454@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 10454-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10454.132699298825167 (code B ref 10454); Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:10:01 +0000 Received: (at 10454) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2012 17:09:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35613 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnvUh-0006Xr-AU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:09:48 -0500 Received: from mail-ey0-f172.google.com ([209.85.215.172]:54977) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RnvUe-0006Xh-Mj for 10454@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:09:45 -0500 Received: by eaai13 with SMTP id i13so71262eaa.3 for <10454@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:08:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=yTn7L+oUUn9M4pg0cB3nTftucsg1/6+IgryJQ71qPmo=; b=EHeudYSk4kb+XVJGvWe8wIbzj51rBSfB2SzFiCc9tOHHLxI1Qz72Njj6nTSCCT9UvS LC8NTdk9Tvcps0P3NxyAdfeX/k6KHt+WXMBLv7rSmmbGoZrd8WxWi23pqbSrApngh2/4 hMnNj2Y9TQD8K+ryn3RXxclm++2ZiPBk7y54Q= Received: by 10.213.19.210 with SMTP id c18mr6825641ebb.130.1326992911558; Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:08:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.17.13] ([132.185.237.133]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u53sm115615276eeu.6.2012.01.19.09.08.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:08:30 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:08:29 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <94A96D5D-BC22-43C0-9130-BE1DECB26D93@rothlis.net> References: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> <18C2AFAE-27B1-47B3-9D39-AEC2F9A97CC2@rothlis.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Glenn Morris wrote: > help.el is dumped into the Emacs image, so restarting Emacs defeats all > your good work. You either need to rebuild Emacs, or (should work), > explicitly load help-macro.el and then load help.el, then try it in the > same Emacs session. Heheh, no wonder. I can now confirm that Martin's patch does work for me. :-) Thank you all for all your help. Dave. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Resent-From: martin rudalics Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10454 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Glenn Morris Cc: 10454@debbugs.gnu.org, David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Received: via spool by 10454-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10454.132705130031709 (code B ref 10454); Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:22:02 +0000 Received: (at 10454) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2012 09:21:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36178 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RoAfE-0008FO-6W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 04:21:40 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.23]:54584) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RoAfC-0008FG-Bu for 10454@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 04:21:39 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 20 Jan 2012 09:20:20 -0000 Received: from 62-47-50-127.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.50.127]) [62.47.50.127] by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 20 Jan 2012 10:20:20 +0100 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/wTAUOwxLwaLb/oQgagTKiZdF9NicjNRPEY13L/F I7MsYss9ZDvkKa Message-ID: <4F1931D1.2070401@gmx.at> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:20:17 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > I'm no more knowledgeable, but it must be something to do with > minor-mode-map-alist, so FWIW if your solution makes it work I suggest > installing it and closing this. Done. martin From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:18:19 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.428 (Entity 5.428) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: David =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6thlisberger?= Subject: bug#10454: closed (Re: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k') Message-ID: References: <4F1931B4.7010109@gmx.at> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 10454 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs X-Gnu-PR-Keywords: patch Reply-To: 10454@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:22:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1327051323-31753-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1327051323-31753-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 10454@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 10454: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D10454 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1327051323-31753-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 10454-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2012 09:21:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36175 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RoAeo-0008Ed-09 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 04:21:14 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]:49385) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RoAej-0008ER-PJ for 10454-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 04:21:11 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 20 Jan 2012 09:19:51 -0000 Received: from 62-47-50-127.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.50.127]) [62.47.50.127] by mail.gmx.net (mp058) with SMTP; 20 Jan 2012 10:19:51 +0100 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+xnqNWQrKx2ruYlc1mem0tNz+24n5567Yg5a99O9 QUMSOHSR0sEEXA Message-ID: <4F1931B4.7010109@gmx.at> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:19:48 +0100 From: martin rudalics MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 10454-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#10454: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' References: <4F0B2F95.1070500@gmx.at> <18C2AFAE-27B1-47B3-9D39-AEC2F9A97CC2@rothlis.net> <94A96D5D-BC22-43C0-9130-BE1DECB26D93@rothlis.net> In-Reply-To: <94A96D5D-BC22-43C0-9130-BE1DECB26D93@rothlis.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10454-done Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_R=F6thlisberger?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > I can now confirm that Martin's patch does work > for me. :-) Installed in revision 106895 on trunk. > Thank you all for all your help. Thank you for the precise report. martin ------------=_1327051323-31753-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2012 19:12:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjy9v-0005qm-U9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:12:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:35276) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3c-0008GS-7d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:37:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3O-0007xM-GE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:47 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:51656) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3O-0007xH-Ej for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:37543) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3N-0003C4-Nq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3M-0007x3-FZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:45 -0500 Received: from mail-wi0-f169.google.com ([209.85.212.169]:51266) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rjr3L-0007wp-Sw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:36:44 -0500 Received: by wibhq12 with SMTP id hq12so2888526wib.0 for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 03:36:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date :message-id:to:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=zkj06jk5Slw81AhmiHBe38iz2ExbpxygwlYWpsDCX6Y=; b=IdyrzQmwizoNrLYjXdCTuuPJABoeU92HVb5p+nYOijhpg+QrI9NPqxvDlWHIJt1qlX VxcLhyg1uElO7twgcgUbaZsbMA1+ZBGPYXS/pAw3UF1JInfUjEUAuro3S6vgMNb2ydl0 hfLurk9nUMHxkK5yELuoQJ43Cn4Gig6E7jxOQ= Received: by 10.180.20.69 with SMTP id l5mr7147776wie.19.1326022602510; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 03:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (94-194-137-39.zone8.bethere.co.uk. [94.194.137.39]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g11sm41023252wbo.6.2012.01.08.03.36.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 08 Jan 2012 03:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?David_R=F6thlisberger?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: 23.3; Different result from `C-h k' and `C-h ? k' Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:36:42 +0000 Message-Id: To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:11:58 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) If I have ido-mode enabled, the output of `C-h k C-x C-f' is: > C-x C-f runs the command ido-find-file, which is an interactive > compiled Lisp function in `ido.el'. But if I'm just learning Emacs and I do `C-h ? k C-x C-f', the output is = for (non-ido) find-file: > C-x C-f runs the command find-file, which is an interactive compiled > Lisp function in `files.el'. I'm not sure what causes this. `help-for-help' in `help.el' seems to use = the same `help-map' that binds `C-h k' to `describe-key'; I couldn't = understand the `make-help-screen' macro so that's as far as I got with = my investigation. I reproduced this on Emacs 23.3 and a 2012-01-08 nightly build of = 24.0.92.1 (revno: 106821). Recipe starting from `emacs -Q': M-: (ido-mode t) C-h k C-x C-f C-h ? k C-x C-f Thanks, Dave. ------------=_1327051323-31753-1--