From unknown Thu Jun 19 12:38:00 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#1010: 23.0.60; call-interactively doc Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 1010@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:30:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 1010 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12219242067080 (code B ref -1); Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:30:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Sep 2008 15:23:26 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m8KFNMHV007074 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:23:24 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:44645 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Kh4Gw-0002yt-Ds for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:21:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kh4Im-0006Io-AN for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:23:21 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:20625) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kh4Il-0006IR-T4 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:23:16 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m8KFNCjR025512 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:23:12 -0600 Received: from acsmt701.oracle.com (acsmt701.oracle.com [141.146.40.71]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m8KFNB06008308 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:23:12 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.23.165.218) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:23:11 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:23:19 -0700 Message-ID: <007801c91b34$cfe46170$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AckbNM+Asa67zFFFT3mEmzIhrfGQKA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 The doc for `call-interactively', both Elisp manual and doc string, could perhaps be improved slightly by changing "reading args" to "providing args". It's still good to say, in a separate sentence, that this might entail reading, depending on the `interactive' spec for the individual arguments. The point is that "calling interactively" does not necessarily involve anything interactive (input from the user). It just calls the command providing arguments as determined by the `interactive' spec, which _might_ require reading user input. In the Elisp manual, a simple example might illustrate what `call-interactively' is typically used for. This report is prompted by a question on help-gnu-emacs from someone whose English skills were limited. People helped by suggesting that the OP read node Interactive Call in the Elisp manual and use `call-interactively' in his code, but the OP still misunderstood. His impression was that that would require him to input arguments interactively, which was not necessarily the case: (interactive "p\nd\nd"). He was looking, he said, for a way to call a command so that the command itself figured out the argument values it needed. What he meant was exactly what `call-interactively' does, but he didn't grasp the connection even after the suggestion and reading the doc. I think changing "reading args" to "providing args" would go a long way toward removing some of this confusion. `interactive' does not just read args input by the user. In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2008-09-03 on LENNART-69DE564 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/g/include -fno-crossjumping' From lekktu@gmail.com Sat Jan 24 05:21:16 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 24 Jan 2009 13:21:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. 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call-interactively doc Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:01:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 1010 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 1010@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 1010-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B1010.131005801920586 (code B ref 1010); Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:01:01 +0000 Received: (at 1010) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2011 17:00:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qerw2-0005Lv-K3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 13:00:18 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qerw0-0005BN-Vv for 1010@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 13:00:17 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qervp-00064g-J0; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:00:05 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <007801c91b34$cfe46170$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:23:19 -0700") Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:57:25 +0200 Message-ID: References: <007801c91b34$cfe46170$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: The Smiths's _The World Won't Listen_: "That joke isn't funny anymore" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110707:1010@debbugs.gnu.org::yOLP5w7J4SawKH2u:00000000000000000000000000000000000000001N6eF X-Hashcash: 1:23:110707:drew.adams@oracle.com::aIOQ0/1+3Y94Ao2G:0000000000000000000000000000000000000001UKFa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qervp-00064g-J0 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310662805.67618@7DkdAXMg7LhvoAgvMJD55Q X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > The doc for `call-interactively', both Elisp manual and doc string, > could perhaps be improved slightly by changing "reading args" to > "providing args". Yes, I think you're right. In case of the "r" spec, for instance, there's little "reading" going on, but it does provide the point/mark to the function. I'm guessing the intention was to say that it would prompt the user for stuff, if the interactive spec is a prompting one. I've now made the change. > It's still good to say, in a separate sentence, that this might entail > reading, depending on the `interactive' spec for the individual > arguments. The point is that "calling interactively" does not > necessarily involve anything interactive (input from the user). It > just calls the command providing arguments as determined by the > `interactive' spec, which _might_ require reading user input. > > In the Elisp manual, a simple example might illustrate what > `call-interactively' is typically used for. I've added an example to the manual. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/