From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:56:16 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#1000: C-i is TAB on my Mac Reply-To: Alex , 1000@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Alex Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:45:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 1000 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.122181720320062 (code B ref -1); Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:45:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.9 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,FOURLA, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 19 Sep 2008 09:40:03 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m8J9dw37020017 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:40:00 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KgcSw-0005I1-D5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:39:56 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KgcSr-0005GB-Re for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:39:52 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39566 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KgcSq-0005Fy-5Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:39:48 -0400 Received: from hs-out-0708.google.com ([64.233.178.242]:62175) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KgcSp-0002DK-I9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:39:47 -0400 Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 55so74700hsc.10 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:39:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=FPdZixIqtpWf7Et8EfZSEXc3Cvl32iB7D00LjFRJCPA=; b=sHAJwAoqwaj6Qm/ctsNw1bVS0GD26V/3NKAg464JgyEwnKkL17ox+Tm7fqOJEO1wQR 5ccaTMtt24k4IUnUtCEdkSIFWM3LvCTpwzcc4QEmpnBmuo63dY5pfTA/iEaSDaWzemDJ X1rDVIvn1+HxZSlSojo89/ssanakOA3kNNhzs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=m2kjoZNvpfyXffKCK7yQaRBnHi8Jl4fmdnm0/UPuptQeqpnjTSOs5Uw9Mk0536uNys J8Y5OryclO/R3d8lZ3QHKFPv+jfhKeHKHUmyaCShNKJI7mQgADxbP5VWen98QlXe9klL Mejw9tlwlDQzI0G/zO5yRTnPrGVeVEC4r0hpY= Received: by 10.90.100.17 with SMTP id x17mr6578581agb.89.1221817186433; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.74.9 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9abbd5730809190239x2eafbe25yb835402e8f4e6d47@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:39:46 +0200 From: Alex To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) When I use C-h k C-i I get the following: TAB runs the command indent-for-tab-command Apparently C-i gets translated to TAB as if I were in a terminal window but I'm using Emacs in Apple's windowing system. In GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i386-apple-darwin8.11.1, Carbon Version 1.6.0) of 2008-09-11 on Pyrobombus.local Windowing system distributor `Apple Inc.', version 10.4.11 configured using `configure '--enable-carbon-app'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: nil locale-coding-system: iso-latin-1 default-enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Help Minor modes in effect: encoded-kbd-mode: t show-paren-mode: t iswitchb-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t unify-8859-on-encoding-mode: t utf-translate-cjk-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t column-number-mode: t line-number-mode: t view-mode: t Recent input: C-c TAB C-c C-c TAB C-c TAB C-SPC x i n d e n t - r e g i o n C-x C-s C-h k TAB x e m a c s . v e r - v e r x r e p o r t Recent messages: Mark set [2 times] Mark saved where search started Mark set Mark activated Loading newcomment...done Saving file /Users/alex/oddmuse/wiki.pl... Wrote /Users/alex/oddmuse/wiki.pl Type C-x 1 to remove help window. GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i386-apple-darwin8.11.1, Carbon Version 1.6.0) of 2008-09-11 on Pyrobombus.local Loading emacsbug...done From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:56:16 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#1000: C-i is TAB on my Mac Reply-To: Adrian Robert , 1000@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Adrian Robert Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:25:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1000 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 1000-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1000.12325799462639 (code B ref 1000); Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:25:03 +0000 Received: (at 1000) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Jan 2009 23:19:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.189]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0LNJ2qH002633 for <1000@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:19:04 -0800 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 30so544767nfu.31 for <1000@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:19:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:mime-version:content-type :message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to :x-mailer; bh=dxti72bZzqrCaq+WbC8SZ0XhyuZg94K6PEeE9HZSqZg=; b=H1ZUTk51aBZMKHBWANP+w78YXYT6hxbUrK/HWDBlbczSsu1yqSUtKF2C7TwJ28SplY I6AncG3Ql421koKx9pRR51m9RgFSihEbRlr9HXYny9vkljOcRX2eNQaiLCu/xLO3Hxnt rnu0hcN+I2gNH6D6E1qwTJB+IbEdaf6Qh3U08= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding :from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=yApZqPc9enfSk7/y04RDijRImBv7FKFREr41XFrTAk0exv47gWEczJQZAePIyUoDYt XQnu51dW3fhJ+5v/Nv+7q4eqlmOquKCGyxcRI0fwxwx02V9NuiMgszIlGm8ttA37NUHB iNYcUMSSTiJzA2FFZv0GcNn9rCOGq1O1qIyl4= Received: by 10.210.129.10 with SMTP id b10mr111053ebd.121.1232579942111; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.101? (h018098.gprs.dnafinland.fi [87.93.18.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm2470435eya.53.2009.01.21.15.18.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:19:01 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: Alex =?UTF-8?Q?Schr=C3=B6der?= Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adrian Robert Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:19:01 +0200 To: 1000@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) I could use some more background here. Hitting C-h k C-i says the key was "TAB", whereas actually hitting C-h k tab says the key was "TAB (translated from )". Is the definition of tab Ctrl-i and then some fancy keyboards later added a Tab key? What does emacs do under X or w32? What behavior is expected? thanks From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:56:16 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#1000: C-i is TAB on my Mac Reply-To: "Stefan Monnier" , 1000@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Stefan Monnier" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1000 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 1000-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1000.123259814213698 (code B ref 1000); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 1000) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 22 Jan 2009 04:22:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mail.g-wis.com (mail.g-wis.com [204.250.154.18]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0M4MJ4O013692 for <1000@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:22:20 -0800 thread-index: Acl8SQBsJbITM46uROeWDqspTXbJyw== X-Received-From-Address: 69.38.23.210 X-Envelope-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-Envelope-To: adrian.b.robert@gmail.com, kensanata@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 1000@debbugs.gnu.org Received: from ceviche.home ([69.38.23.210]) by mail.g-wis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:22:12 -0800 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 87A0CB400C; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:22:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Stefan Monnier" To: "Adrian Robert" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: <1000@debbugs.gnu.org>, Alex =?UTF-8?Q?Schr=C3=B6der?= Message-ID: Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4325 References: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:22:07 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Adrian Robert'smessage of "Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:19:01 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2009 04:22:13.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[0000D080:01C97C49] > I could use some more background here. Hitting C-h k C-i says the key was > "TAB", whereas actually hitting C-h k tab says the key was "TAB (translated > from )". Is the definition of tab Ctrl-i and then some fancy > keyboards later added a Tab key? What does emacs do under X or w32? > What behavior is expected? Yes, TAB is an ASCII char whose code is the same as C-i, just like DEL is an ASCII char (whose code is the same as C-?). The `tab' key emits a `tab' symbol event which is then turned into a TAB char event. Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:56:16 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#1000: C-i is TAB on my Mac Reply-To: jasonr@f2s.com, 1000@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: jasonr@f2s.com Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:35:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1000 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 1000-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1000.123260199329734 (code B ref 1000); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:35:03 +0000 Received: (at 1000) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 22 Jan 2009 05:26:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=GMAIL,HAS_BUG_NUMBER,XIRONPORT autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from mk-outboundfilter-5-a-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-5-a-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.4]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0M5QS3s029728 for <1000@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:26:30 -0800 X-Trace: 125421383/mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$F2S-MX-ACCEPTED/f2s-freedom2surf-infrastructure/194.106.33.239/None/jasonr@f2s.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 194.106.33.239 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: jasonr@f2s.com X-MUA: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.3 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiADALSSd0nCaiHv/2dsb2JhbACSfLYmhXM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,304,1231113600"; d="scan'208";a="125421383" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from mail5.freedom2surf.net (HELO webmail1.freedom2surf.net) ([194.106.33.239]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 22 Jan 2009 05:26:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (i-194-106-33-239 [127.0.0.1]) by webmail1.freedom2surf.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC074228539; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:26:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 61.4.103.130 ([61.4.103.130]) by webmail.freedom2surf.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:26:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1232601982.4978037ec40a1@webmail.freedom2surf.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:26:22 +0000 From: jasonr@f2s.com To: Adrian Robert , 1000@debbugs.gnu.org References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.3 X-Originating-IP: 61.4.103.130 Quoting Adrian Robert : > I could use some more background here. Hitting C-h k C-i says the > key was "TAB", whereas actually hitting C-h k tab says the key was > "TAB (translated from )". Is the definition of tab Ctrl-i and > then some fancy keyboards later added a Tab key? What does emacs do > under X or w32? What behavior is expected? The definition of C-i is the ASCII control character with a code of 9 (TAB). w32 also reports simply TAB for C-h k C-i, and TAB (translated from ) for the tab key. So this is not a Mac specific thing. While I can see the connection between C-i and ASCII TAB, it does seem inconsistent, as other control keys are not reported as their ASCII meaning like this. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:56:16 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#1000: C-i is TAB on my Mac Reply-To: Glenn Morris , 1000@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Glenn Morris Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:40:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1000 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 1000-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1000.123265640629491 (code B ref 1000); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:40:04 +0000 Received: (at 1000) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 22 Jan 2009 20:33:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.0 required=4.0 tests=HAS_BUG_NUMBER, VALID_BTS_CONTROL,X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0MKXIMj029483; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:33:19 -0800 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LQ6DK-0004EG-60; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:31:46 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: 1000@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: "Adrian Robert" References: X-Spook: CISU AK-47 anarchy Plame Maple infowar BLU-114/B Capricorn X-Ran: jmMB7wzg#UriP;J<^yu~`ocW|J;!T*N4O:KS2hy[Ng;V%n&_1z4hq;qd|+5*Bkz{FhF~#% X-Hue: white X-Attribution: GM Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:31:46 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:22:07 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii reassign 1000 emacs stop This issue (if it is an issue) is the same under X on GNU/Linux, so I should not have assigned this to ns; sorry. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 24 14:23:37 2010 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jun 2010 18:23:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ORr5N-00051L-8v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:23:37 -0400 Received: from pantheon-po41.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.98]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ORr5K-00051G-K0 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:23:35 -0400 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014221.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.221]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po41.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o5OINUI2013527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:23:30 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5BF4B16D416; Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:23:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 1382 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:23:29 -0400 Message-ID: <87r5jw5ly6.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) severity 135 minor tags 710 + moreinfo unreproducible close 756 tags 844 + moreinfo unreproducible close 917 close 1000 tags 1125 + moreinfo unreproducible close 1159 severity 1238 wishlist close 1247 close 1381 close 1382 tags 1708 + moreinfo unreproducible close 1993 severity 2024 wishlist close 2236 severity 2299 wishlist tags 2394 + moreinfo unreproducible severity 2507 minor close 2583 tags 2690 + moreinfo unreproducible tags 2812 + moreinfo unreproducible tags 2843 + moreinfo unreproducible tags 2870 + moreinfo unreproducible tags 2877 + moreinfo unreproducible close 3032 close 3273 close 3349 close 4046 close 4358 close 4591 close 4656 thanks