> Indeed 15 is the vertical scroll bar width. This was what I reported in the
 > original bug submission. You suggested a patch that would accommodate
 > fringes, et.al. If you'd like me to make adjustments; e.g., resizing
 > fringes or whatever, happy to do it and rerun.

I've been throwing out the child with the bathwater.  Please try the
attached patch which retains an important conjunct.

 > These are all ostensively calls to clone-frame. I'd expect, as I guess most
 > people would, that cloning produces the precise geometry of the originating
 > frame, scroll bar or not.

The major purpose of 'frame-inhibit-implied-resize' is to avoid resizes
when a frame has been tailored to fit into some arrangement of windows
on the display as, for example, with a tiling window manager.  Here I
hardly ever use it.  By design, it should have no effect when making a
new frame which is what the corrected patch should support.  Still, it
might not work for elements like the external tool bar.

 >> We can try to make it behave reasonably when
 >> these values change but I am not sure whether we will succeed.
 >>
 >
 > Let's try.

Let's.

martin